2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumWhen did michael moore join team trump
jcgoldie
(11,584 posts)He's been doing this for awhile.
Mamajami
(257 posts)Unless she murdered someone and they have a film of it.
jcgoldie
(11,584 posts)For fucks sake.
brush
(53,475 posts)while at the same time giving Trump credibility.
Trump is not credible, and of all those people unhappy with the economy (jobs offshored, etc.), there aren't enough of them to elect Trump just as there weren't enough to elect Romney and McCain.
Moore is not stupid, he must know this.
What's his deal?
Guess we'll find out his agenda once Trump loses.
IMO Moore bears watching, no longer trustworthy.
RBInMaine
(13,570 posts)beachbumbob
(9,263 posts)comradebillyboy
(10,119 posts)He still hasn't pulled his head out of his ass.
meadowlark5
(2,795 posts)I think I saw a picture showing all the major players in 2000 who campaigned for Nader. Moore was one. Susan Sarandan another. How soon they forget. But they have the money that a Trump presidency wouldn't hurt them very much. Sarandon would probably go live in her villa in some other country, like all these celebs have. Screw the rest of us left behind.
sweetloukillbot
(10,814 posts)I swallowed it hook line and sinker - I WAS angry at Gore when I voted for Nader and I wish I could take it back. I've had a few disillusionments w/ Moore - I think "The Big One" played a little loose with some things, but Roger & Me, Fahrenheit 9/11 and Bowling For Columbine were great. I haven't seen his last few to comment on them, but he definitely has an agenda, and doesn't seem to mind damaging the Democrays in the process. Is he trawling for a spot on the next Apprentice?
BassMazter2016
(88 posts)tribe-time
(119 posts)NobodyHere
(2,810 posts)rumdude
(448 posts)always has.
apcalc
(4,461 posts)NanceGreggs
(27,813 posts)This is the same Michael Moore who thought Matt Damon should have primaried Obama in 2012, because like he's like a good actor and all - and actually knowing what's going on in the world is highly over-rated when it comes to the presidency.
Cary
(11,746 posts)Last edited Mon Oct 3, 2016, 12:22 AM - Edit history (1)
He was pretending to be the voice of reason, as if Beck wasn't an over the top, radical right wing nutbar. Beck was lamenting that people talk past each other and don't compromise. What is it about Beck that can be compromised with? His irrational loathing of Hillary Clinton? His lies and smears?
senseandsensibility
(16,713 posts)and I don't always, for what it's worth. I watched this and said almost the same thing to Mr. S and S.
Cary
(11,746 posts)And I could extend that to "conservatives" generally. I would love.to be able to reach some kind of agreement with them but I have seen no evidence that this is possible. The only basis for doing things is logic and reason. There is no logic or reason behind "creation science," "Supply side economics," climate science denial, or pretty much anything else "conservative."
Agreement with me is irrelevant.
senseandsensibility
(16,713 posts)and that's fine, I agree with this post even more than your previous one. Don't expect you to find it relevant.
Cary
(11,746 posts)It's okay to disagree, You don't need my approval.
Of course it's okay to agree too.
Buckeye_Democrat
(14,848 posts)... a worrywart.
It bothers me that polling is so close too, but I'm not going to wring my hands constantly like Moore. It's okay to be positive sometimes.
TreasonousBastard
(43,049 posts)a lot of people who would be voting Hillary are disgusted and may just vote for Trump for "change" or to rebel against the present system.
Not the brightest bunch, perhaps, but they are pissed and afraid.
Buckeye_Democrat
(14,848 posts)I don't need to hear it, but the world doesn't revolve around me obviously.
still_one
(91,966 posts)longer reports news. Their model is Paddy Chayefsky's Network, Howard Beale.
It is all about creating an atmosphere they hope will generate RATINGS. It doesn't matter whether the information they spew is true or accurate as long as it generates controversy and ratings.
scarletwoman
(31,893 posts)From the transcript:
MICHAEL MOORE: Yes, I-- which I don't want him to win. Lets just make that clear. I-- I've been trying to say for months here, I live in Michigan. And, and across the Midwest, across the Rust Belt, I understand why a lot of people are angry. And they see Donald Trump as their human Molotov cocktail that they get to go into the voting booth on November 8th and throw him into a political system that has made their lives miserable.
And, and so I think, at the convention, I was worried, Democrats, the Clinton campaign, were all doing an end zone dance when they were only on the 50 yard line. And, and the celebrating after the debate-- everybody needs to have their game face on here and realize that Trump can win. He can pull this off. And, and everybody has to, has to be full force here. Otherwise, its, it has a chance of happening...
<snip>
What has to happen here, though, like with the Brexit vote in England, is that people, where I'm from, have to understand that, while they may not like Hillary that much or she may be a bitter pill to swallow or whatever, you better, you better take your medicine. Because the, the opposite is going to be much, much worse. (my bold)
He may not be a full-throated, enthusiastic Hillary supporter, but he is NOT on "team trump" - he's sounding a warning about why Trump is attacting so many voters.
renate
(13,776 posts)I think you're absolutely right--he's sounding a warning. It may not be what we want to hear, but it's important to acknowledge.
Huge numbers of people have seen their jobs and futures evaporate and they don't feel that either party really cares. (It's unfortunately irrelevant, albeit true, that Democratic politicians do care and have been stymied in their efforts to do anything by vile Republicans who care more about giving Obama a poke in the eye than about taking care of the American people. The undeniable fact is that great numbers of people feel the way they feel, and getting all explainy with them won't help persuade them otherwise in time for the election. They need an "I feel your pain and will do something about it" message.)
People who no longer see the future that they felt they were promised are pissed. And though they may be angry at the wrong people, and it may be super frustrating and unfair that Democrats have to deal with the lies that Fox News has been telling, we ignore their feelings at our peril.
I thought he was fantastic. Thank you for finding the transcript!
still_one
(91,966 posts)What he has been doing is going on every talk outlet he can get on, such as Bill Maher, MTP or other MSM outlets to prophesies his message of doom and gloom.
He says, "I don't want him to win. Let's just make that clear" Well Mr. Moore if you REALLY feel that way then get off you butt, and motivate people to get out and vote, instead of going on every talk show and saying "woe is me., we are going to lose, we are going to lose". Just how is that defeating Trump?
truebluegreen
(9,033 posts)He is using whatever megaphone he has to make sure that people not get complacent, not laugh at the pathetic clown, not think that there is no way the clown can win and instead get off their asses and VOTE! He and we have the very recent BREXIT vote as a great example of what could happen.
Keeeeriiist the level of critical thinking around here has gotten pathetic.
still_one
(91,966 posts)truebluegreen
(9,033 posts)Are you suggesting that the Clinton campaign, the national party and DU are free of the OMG scare tactics-as-motivation in this election? Gimme a break-- more important, give MM one. Sheesh.
Divine Discontent
(21,056 posts)mountain grammy
(26,571 posts)It's hard to see this much hate directed at Moore. He's worried, we should all be. I don't think Trump can win, but I thought Democrats would make gains in 2014 and everyone stayed home. Maybe he's trying to scare people into not doing that. The Congress we got in 2014 is scary enough. Obama got about 5 million less votes in 2012 than in 2008. That's a concern.
Kennah
(14,116 posts)Dawson Leery
(19,348 posts)help many in need.
tavernier
(12,322 posts)And STFU.
Sort of how the rest of us without a speaker and a mike are trying to do it.
still_one
(91,966 posts)Bernie and others are doing, this is his main message now, "we are going to lose, we are going to lose"
I would like him to tell me how that is going to defeat trump, verses if he actually worked to GOTV?
Perhaps he has convoluted logic where he believe giving a demoralizing message that will motivate people to GOTV. If that is the case, than he is an idiot, that is NOT how you motivate people.
BobbyDrake
(2,542 posts)Doctor Jack
(3,072 posts)Moore has been irrelevant for almost a decade and hasn't done anything of note since 2004. He's past his prime and out of touch. He's like the Aerosmith of political commentators. Old, stale, and a parody of his former self that should have called it quits, many, many, many, many years ago.
politicaljunkie41910
(3,335 posts)from a family of nine kids, who grew up in the inner city of Los Angeles, we have 7 college grads and 2 Technical College grads. Everyone of my family members, except me and my sister who's a nurse, have had their ups and downs during recessionary times including my oldest sister who is a medical doctor, and my youngest sister who is a lawyer and at one time worked for one of the top Law firms in Los Angeles. The only thing that saved me was that I was working for the federal government. I've been furloughed along with other government employees, had salary frozen for up to three years, and had periods over my career when we were told to stay home when Congress played games and failed to sign a budget before the deadline, but never laid off.
So pardon me if I don't give a damn about disenfranchised white voters. I've watched my family and friends be disenfranchised their entire lives. Yeh, they might have saw whoa me once, but then they got up the next day and began hitting the pavement looking for their next job. All of them went through savings and if they were lucky to have an employer who offered a 401K plan, tapped into those resources. None of my family or friends have had it easy. They've worked for everything they have and worked hard to get where they are today. We've leaned on one another during difficult times. The only ones who the media seems to think that they are entitled and have a right to be angry are angry white people. Now I am not trying to paint a whole group with a broad brush, but for someone who has lived in white communities my entire adult life, (I'm 58) and have many white friends, co-workers and neighbors, my experience is that they have an expectation or a sense of entitlement that I don't see among my black friends and family.
Also, I guess that since my black family and friends have come from a christian upbringing, when a setback occurs, you tend to hang on to your faith, that this too shall pass. My parents raised us that the world did not owe us anything because we were born. They taught us that if you work hard, you can have anything you set your mind to. So since our entire lives have been a struggle, you learn a different way to deal with adversity and setbacks. I thank God for the struggles because I can't imagine what a basket case I might be if I had an entitlement mentality and had a setback.
I have 3 college grad children and each of them have had setbacks early in their careers and I am grateful for the fact that they experienced disappointment early. My oldest, a daughter who decided to follow me and got a degree in Accounting ended up at Countrywide at the wrong time, and after their demise, ended up transferring to Wachovia, only to end up bought out by Wells Fargo. But she knew that something was not right at Wells Fargo with their aggressive sales goals, and she said I can't work under the pressure that they're applying and I won't do anything dishonest to meet these sales goals. So she quit. She got another job quickly, but at a much reduced salary.
She's currently in another management trainee program with a Fortune 500 company, but in spite of having to change jobs and take a reduction in salary, after three years she's back to where she was three years ago salary wise. But she has the right attitude and she can sleep well at night. And finally, at age 35 she's pregnant and she and her husband are expecting their first child at the end of this month. For someone who has always been at the head of her class, I'm sure she had expectations where she would be at this time, but I'm just thankful that she made it this far, and came out a winner, conscience free, and she's on much more solid footing right now.
Sunny05
(865 posts)Sunny05
(865 posts)betsuni
(25,138 posts)I completely agree.
Tactical Peek
(1,204 posts)And the people I saw at his rally here are not people who have lost their jobs and have no future. They are middle class, and in the case of the doctors and lawyers types at the one here, maybe upper middle class, and no, their jobs did not get exported to Mexico or China.
They are the same people who filled meeting halls and parking lots for George Wallace when he ran for President, the same people who called themselves the Tea Party and carried posters of Obama as a witch doctor and shit like that at their rallies, until their betters made them lose the signs because the image was bad.
Michael Moore is just buying into the Trump campaign propaganda and the clueless media coverage if he thinks the people waving Rebel flags at those rallies are the salt of the earth who are down on their luck and out of a job, and that's why they go for Trump. Just check the parking lots at one of those rallies and he'll get a hint.
It's just the old George Wallace/Tea Party crowd of racists, misogynists and their ilk. Fuck them.
uponit7771
(90,225 posts)Lil Missy
(17,865 posts)ScienceIsGood
(314 posts)Divine Discontent
(21,056 posts)This has been going on for a long time. If you're even remotely giving some thought as to why she's so unliked by the majority of Americans (and still FUCKING light years better than Dumdum Donald) you get kicked in the groin on here and made fun of for your looks (weight, hair, being older and not in the prime of your life that he was so beloved for) all because he dare be relatable to the people who aren't like all of us who are 100% Hillary instead of Dumdum.
He's doing a good job critiquing her while repeatedly stating Dems need to get out the vote so she beats the insane opponent. He knows plenty well how to relate to people that come from that area. I sometimes have to do it when needing to get someone who's not very much into the news or is moderate to understand that right-wing policies or trickle down have never worked and will never work, and that the rich (like tax dodger Donald) need to pay their fair share.
Michael isn't perfect but he doesn't deserve this. Fahrenheit 911 is a historical masterpiece about the politics and scandal of the B*sh era.
He made so many good points about how the Trumpettes love his hateful BS.
Many should apologize. He's simply saying don't think just because Dumdum is a lunatic you can assume she'll win. His deplorables don't care what he does or says. They're saying he's smart for avoiding taxes despite padding his pockets for decades! He's asking us to reach those Bernie people who aren't interested in voting. One I spoke to for an hour today. She said her whole family isn't voting. I was so sad. I told her, if the insane guy wins, how will she feel about her good job in the tourism industry and does she think people are going to come here to America if HE'S president?
Michael Moore ✔ @MMFlint
If u want a smart, responsible, compassionate President, she was standing there. If u want reality TV... well, which country do we live in?
"Did YOU do anything today 2 get Hillary elected? If not, she lost. If u spent today relieved & smug about her victory, she lost."
truebluegreen
(9,033 posts)Many here do not seem to realize that MM is not talking to us, he's talking to less motivated voters who might not make the effort, trying to ensure they know the stakes.
ScienceIsGood
(314 posts)senz
(11,945 posts)That's the only explanation I can come up with.
radius777
(3,624 posts)Divine Discontent
(21,056 posts)Shocking, ain't it...
MM is not for Team Dumdum. Some people need to go read his last couple hundred tweets. He is a progressive. He is pointing out all the ways we could see The Orange Cheeto become president if we live in our echo chamber. He knows one large state could swing this. There are people most of us know who are voting third party or not at all (it's hard to pull the Donald voters out of their brainwashing), and we can't let them go without a battle.
If each of us were proactive like I was with the lady I know who said she'll vote bit can't guarantee her family will as they don't like either, then we can win all of these tossup states like Ohio, Nevada, and North Carolina.
pointsoflight
(1,372 posts)kimbutgar
(20,882 posts)radius777
(3,624 posts)is a myth that has taken hold on the left, also on the populist right, who seem to have forgotten history.
The wwc abandoned Dems over civil rights well before '92, embracing the free-trading union-busting Reagan, and turning their noses up at anti-trade pro-union Dems like Mondale and Dukakis.
Clintonism embraced trade from a centrist position, i.e. fair trade, recognizing the global reality of the economy.
It is technology and automation more than any other factor which has (and will continue to) erode manufacturing jobs, which eventually will leave places like China and come back to the US, but robots will be doing the jobs.
Kablooie
(18,572 posts)He came from a GM blue collar background and knows these people.
I'm sure he's hearing from a lot of people that support Trump. He knows that if they ever get their shit together and go out and vote en masse It could actually be an upset in spite of the polls.
He's urging everyone not to become complacent. That's how sure things are lost.
applegrove
(118,022 posts)whatever he touches. People are so selfish if they vote for entertainment in a presidency instead of governance.
nolabels
(13,133 posts)Secondly, people even get entertained by bloody car crashes. It's about this thinking how their life sucks but at least it's not as bad as that car crash victim. Somehow, that thought is transformed into "if everybody's life sucked than mine could be better".
Lastly, just because you (or Mike Moore) were able to rub shoulders with rest of us deplorables at one time doesn't give the wherewithal or authority to speak for the rest of us.
Monk06
(7,675 posts)power. The invisible working class nobody, the butler who is privy to the dark secrets of the swells because they think of him as less than a person.
Worked with Roger and Me and then he let it go to his head Now he thinks he's the progressive version of Yoda
All wise and always right but never having to do anything but belay the obvious and scold people who actually effect political change
Just another petty bourgeois left wing bore with a nice house
jodymarie aimee
(3,975 posts)and he is one of us. Shame on you for mocking his appearance. That is what Repubs do.Go watch any of his movies. They are brilliant and brave and progressive. You guys need thicker skins. Eating our own is negative. HRC has a thick skin. Emulate her.
Divine Discontent
(21,056 posts)Very disappointed in those not understanding what he's saying about complacency, and who he also has some sway with (Bernie folks who are voting for someone other than Clinton or not at all). MM is one of us (as in progressive) and this is really unfortunate to see people say nasty things about his looks like the GOP and Donald does, and say F him...
SMH!!!
mnhtnbb
(31,320 posts)He is --like many people-- seriously worried Trump could pull this off.
And he is out talking about the need for Bernie supporters-- or others who are turned off by the choice between Trump and Clinton--to swallow
their medicine and vote for Hillary.
DrDan
(20,411 posts)Did you even watch this video?
ScienceIsGood
(314 posts)QC
(26,371 posts)There, I covered the last remaining freeper attacks on Moore that hadn't been deployed in this thread yet.
Now it can sink to the depths where it belongs.
BlueStateLib
(937 posts)http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/michael-moore-trump-won-debate_us_57ebc7c5e4b024a52d2ba5e2
DrDan
(20,411 posts)and encourage others to vote
and work for Hillary
and contribute
If not - it's president trump
anamnua
(1,096 posts)He is prudently warning against complacency and is clearly pro-Hillary.