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msongs

(67,193 posts)
Sat Nov 26, 2016, 01:13 AM Nov 2016

"Dems inaction over 2 million vote victory shows why they lose" - HuffPo

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/paul-abrams/dems-inaction-over-2m-vot_b_13199450.html?ncid=engmodushpmg00000003

so "our side" won a 2.5 million vote victory and we have the moral high ground. Yet from the democratic party establishment nothing but crickets. where is our candidate accepting her popular vote win and using it keep the repubs from claiming the will of the people and a mandate ??????????
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"Dems inaction over 2 million vote victory shows why they lose" - HuffPo (Original Post) msongs Nov 2016 OP
President isn't elected by popular vote. LisaL Nov 2016 #1
But a President elected by a minority has no mandate. tinrobot Nov 2016 #18
Bush had no mandate, so he started a war of aggression. SleeplessinSoCal Nov 2016 #31
No mandate is needed EL34x4 Nov 2016 #34
i agree, democrats need to embrace it. i said in another thread if Trump had won by just 20 Thousand JI7 Nov 2016 #2
True that pangaia Nov 2016 #23
so true treestar Nov 2016 #33
Mr. Abrahams BainsBane Nov 2016 #3
not claiming trump will never be president. concede does NOT total defeat and surrender nt msongs Nov 2016 #4
I know I will get yelled at, but in my discussions here (not DU) is why democrats are RKP5637 Nov 2016 #5
Yep, we won bigly in California. I'm glad we won popular vote and thank you California and NY Hoyt Nov 2016 #6
All this is only good enough to annoy Trump a little bit. LisaL Nov 2016 #7
And he's punishing NYC accordingly EL34x4 Nov 2016 #35
And what do we do about it? RandySF Nov 2016 #8
with 2.5 million vote win you have the will of the people and the other guy does not nt msongs Nov 2016 #11
If the US had proportional representation, Mrs. Clinton would have won the Presidency. akbacchus_BC Nov 2016 #9
Exactly pangaia Nov 2016 #25
"You all"? FBaggins Nov 2016 #38
I stand with Churchill - "We shall fight on the beaches, we shall fight on the landing grounds, msongs Nov 2016 #10
Thing is, just like 2004, we have to contend with this bigot for another 4 years. akbacchus_BC Nov 2016 #12
In the meantime they destroy SS and Medicare pangaia Nov 2016 #26
2018 looks horrid. I worry repugs will get the magic 60 seats yeoman6987 Nov 2016 #39
You have posted this how many times now? Kingofalldems Nov 2016 #40
to all the "popular vote don't matter" types DonCoquixote Nov 2016 #13
This right here. Saviolo Nov 2016 #16
The point is that the Dems Nonhlanhla Nov 2016 #14
Democratic politicians are for the most part chicken shits pangaia Nov 2016 #27
And this is the problem in a nutshell. Nay Nov 2016 #36
Another reason we need new Democratic leadership! Red Oak Nov 2016 #15
Then work on and Constution ammendment and get the votes for it Kathy M Nov 2016 #17
You know Trump and his supporters would be on MSM like FOX News UCmeNdc Nov 2016 #19
I'm with you: if the GOP had won the popular vote and lost the election... C Moon Nov 2016 #20
Our dudes are too busy fighting the recount EricMaundry Nov 2016 #21
That's not even our dudes pangaia Nov 2016 #29
K&R Scruffy1 Nov 2016 #22
It all comes down to the American people. who seem to be a pathetic, easily manipulated lot world wide wally Nov 2016 #24
We need to debunk this "states vote" crap. NO people vote. musicblind Nov 2016 #28
I especially like.. pangaia Nov 2016 #30
People seem to think this has never happened before...... Historic NY Nov 2016 #32
We are just smart enough to know marlakay Nov 2016 #37

tinrobot

(10,848 posts)
18. But a President elected by a minority has no mandate.
Sat Nov 26, 2016, 03:02 AM
Nov 2016

There is something to be said about a President representing all of the people, not just those who voted for him.

SleeplessinSoCal

(8,994 posts)
31. Bush had no mandate, so he started a war of aggression.
Sat Nov 26, 2016, 04:07 AM
Nov 2016

We could get something even worse. Who a is the future of the party? JillStein?

JI7

(89,174 posts)
2. i agree, democrats need to embrace it. i said in another thread if Trump had won by just 20 Thousand
Sat Nov 26, 2016, 01:16 AM
Nov 2016

popular vote but lost the electoral that shit would be all over the media every fucking day. and trying to delegitimize clinton even if she had won an electoral landslide.

BainsBane

(53,001 posts)
3. Mr. Abrahams
Sat Nov 26, 2016, 01:17 AM
Nov 2016

I'd like to introduce you to something called the US Constitution.

THE CONSTITUTION
Article II

Section 1. The executive Power shall be vested in a President of the United States of America. He shall hold his Office during the Term of four Years, and, together with the Vice President, chosen for the same Term, be elected, as follows
Each State shall appoint, in such Manner as the Legislature thereof may direct, a Number of Electors, equal to the whole Number of Senators and Representatives to which the State may be entitled in the Congress: but no Senator or Representative, or Person holding an Office of Trust or Profit under the United States, shall be appointed an Elector.

The Congress may determine the Time of choosing the Electors, and the Day on which they shall give their Votes; which Day shall be the same throughout the United States.

Twelfth Amendment

The Electors shall meet in their respective states, and vote by ballot for President and Vice-President, one of whom, at least, shall not be an inhabitant of the same state with themselves; they shall name in their ballots the person voted for as President, and in distinct ballots the person voted for as Vice-President, and they shall make distinct lists of all persons voted for as President, and of all persons voted for as Vice-President, and of the number of votes for each, which lists they shall sign and certify, and transmit sealed to the seat of the government of the United States, directed to the President of the Senate; The President of the Senate shall, in the presence of the Senate and House of Representatives, open all the certificates and the votes shall then be counted;--The person having the greatest number of votes for President, shall be the President, if such number be a majority of the whole number of Electors appointed; and if no person have such majority, then from the persons having the highest numbers not exceeding three on the list of those voted for as President, the House of Representatives shall choose immediately, by ballot, the President. But in choosing the President, the votes shall be taken by states, the representation from each state having one vote; a quorum for this purpose shall consist of a member or members from two-thirds of the states, and a majority of all the states shall be necessary to a choice.... The person having the greatest number of votes as Vice-President, shall be the Vice-President, if such number be a majority of the whole number of Electors appointed, and if no person have a majority, then from the two highest numbers on the list, the Senate shall choose the Vice-President; a quorum for the purpose shall consist of two-thirds of the whole number of Senators, and a majority of the whole number shall be necessary to a choice. But no person constitutionally ineligible to the office of President shall be eligible to that of Vice-President to the United States.

https://www.archives.gov/federal-register/electoral-college/provisions.html

RKP5637

(67,032 posts)
5. I know I will get yelled at, but in my discussions here (not DU) is why democrats are
Sat Nov 26, 2016, 01:25 AM
Nov 2016

often seen as weak. Right or wrong, republicans scream their heads off. That's not my preference, but I think the silence right now is harmful to the democratic party. It seems the old time democrats made a lot more noise and were far more vocal.

 

Hoyt

(54,770 posts)
6. Yep, we won bigly in California. I'm glad we won popular vote and thank you California and NY
Sat Nov 26, 2016, 01:28 AM
Nov 2016

for showing the rest of the USA. But, that's not much really taken as a whole. We can say we won the most diverse and prosperous states.

 

EL34x4

(2,003 posts)
35. And he's punishing NYC accordingly
Sat Nov 26, 2016, 10:56 AM
Nov 2016

By setting up a second White House in the Trump Tower, which will effectively bring the city to a standstill whenever he's in town.

RandySF

(57,636 posts)
8. And what do we do about it?
Sat Nov 26, 2016, 01:33 AM
Nov 2016

Electoral College members are bound by laws of the states they represent. And some laws prevent them from switching their votes even if they wanted to, The election WAS rigged by the FBI, Wikileaks and the Russians and, to some extent, the media. But as far as the mechanics of the election goes, there's nothing that can be done about it.

akbacchus_BC

(5,700 posts)
9. If the US had proportional representation, Mrs. Clinton would have won the Presidency.
Sat Nov 26, 2016, 01:33 AM
Nov 2016

You all have an archaic system with electoral college, that is the problem and it is not going to change soon.

It is a sad day for the whole world when shitass Trump got the electoral votes and now is the effing president elect. Cannot use caps as he is an asshole. Am sick to my stomach that that creature is now going to be the effing president of the US.

pangaia

(24,324 posts)
25. Exactly
Sat Nov 26, 2016, 03:50 AM
Nov 2016

The whole idea of winner take all is fucking stupid!!!
And all but 2 states have that rule.
It boggles the mind.

FBaggins

(26,696 posts)
38. "You all"?
Sat Nov 26, 2016, 12:18 PM
Nov 2016

Under the Canadian system, we would still be faced with Prime Minister Trump. Republicans won both the majority of votes and the majority of seats in the House.

It's also worth noting that "you all's" system can end up with a chief executive selected by a far smaller proportion of the electorate and some pretty wacky results (2008 wasn't all that long ago)

msongs

(67,193 posts)
10. I stand with Churchill - "We shall fight on the beaches, we shall fight on the landing grounds,
Sat Nov 26, 2016, 01:34 AM
Nov 2016

we shall fight in the fields and in the streets, we shall fight in the hills; we shall NEVER surrender"

akbacchus_BC

(5,700 posts)
12. Thing is, just like 2004, we have to contend with this bigot for another 4 years.
Sat Nov 26, 2016, 01:39 AM
Nov 2016

I really hope the Democratic Party can rebound and in 2018, people go out and vote to regain the Senate and the House and that this asshat orange guy last for only 4 years!

I am hoping and praying!

pangaia

(24,324 posts)
26. In the meantime they destroy SS and Medicare
Sat Nov 26, 2016, 03:52 AM
Nov 2016

and I'm screwed.
They destroy the educational system, NASA, appt a wacko supreme Court judge, and trump becomes a dictator....

 

yeoman6987

(14,449 posts)
39. 2018 looks horrid. I worry repugs will get the magic 60 seats
Sat Nov 26, 2016, 01:24 PM
Nov 2016

And then it's over. We have to win all 23 seats we have up in 2018 and take their 8 seats up. There's no other option.

DonCoquixote

(13,615 posts)
13. to all the "popular vote don't matter" types
Sat Nov 26, 2016, 01:42 AM
Nov 2016

It is possible to be right about the fact, yet wrong in the big picture. Trump, like Bush before him, will claim an Iron Mandate of heaven, especially if he picks a fight with Mexico/china/Russia that, like 9-11, will have everyone forget the past year. We need to show that his "mandate" is weak, and even if this recount does not change the SHORT TERM result, it will be valuable in the long run, especially come 2018 when the GOP's smiling clown makeup washes off after a few assaults on whatever prgress we have made in the past 50 years.

Saviolo

(3,270 posts)
16. This right here.
Sat Nov 26, 2016, 02:51 AM
Nov 2016

Democrats should be screaming from the rooftops that Trump has no mandate. Yes, he won the electoral college, but the Republican Party and their policies did not receive a mandate in the classic sense. A popular vote gap of over 2 million votes is insane. At the very least, Democratic party leaders should be lining up to declare that in this time when the country is so deeply divided, that the GOP must take its turn to reach across the aisle to the Democratic party. Show the people that they do NOT stand with with the neo-nazis, white nationalists, and racists of the so-called "alt-right." Demand that the GOP show the people that they are willing to work with the party whose policies received over 2 million more votes from the American people after the last eight miserable years of obstruction and roadblocking.

Also, a note on the use of the term alt-right: I hate it. It's a marketing ploy to make it sound more palatable. I will never use that term unless it is accompanied by the terms it is attempting to hide and soften: neo-nazi, white nationalist, and racist.

Nonhlanhla

(2,074 posts)
14. The point is that the Dems
Sat Nov 26, 2016, 02:25 AM
Nov 2016

should use this to delegitimize Trump. He will become president by the rules of the land but against the will of the people. The majority does not want him. If the Pubs could block everything our President Obama did even when he did win with a strong mandate, then the Dems can at least do their best to undermine Trump's fake mandate and do what they can (e.g., filibuster) to oppose everything he does. Our candidate was the popular choice, and we should never, ever make them forget that.

I cried for Al Gore, a man of intelligence who should have been our president, for 8 years. I know I will cry for Hillary, a woman of intelligence and competence who would have made a great president and our first female president to boot, for at least 4. In both cases because we are forced to endure an unintelligent, uninformed person sitting in the Oval Office thanks only to the archaic Electoral College.

Nay

(12,051 posts)
36. And this is the problem in a nutshell.
Sat Nov 26, 2016, 11:42 AM
Nov 2016

This is why Dem voters aren't turning out as much. Why they feel so "eh" about their candidates. Why Bernie excited them this time.

If Dems won't fight for themselves, they sure as hell aren't going to fight for you. That's the takeaway for Dem and Indie voters over the past 15 years.

This has got to change.

UCmeNdc

(9,589 posts)
19. You know Trump and his supporters would be on MSM like FOX News
Sat Nov 26, 2016, 03:03 AM
Nov 2016

Never letting anyone forget he had a popular vote lead like this if he had lost.

Actually Hillary's lead is close to 3 million. Imagine three million more people voted for her over Trump.

You can see voter suppression and vote rigged machines all over this election.

C Moon

(12,188 posts)
20. I'm with you: if the GOP had won the popular vote and lost the election...
Sat Nov 26, 2016, 03:14 AM
Nov 2016

we'd be hearing blood-curdling screams.

musicblind

(4,484 posts)
28. We need to debunk this "states vote" crap. NO people vote.
Sat Nov 26, 2016, 03:55 AM
Nov 2016

Land does not vote, trees do not vote. PEOPLE do.

And the Electoral College was NOT created to give power to the smaller states. The Federalist Papers contradict this. The Electoral College, as explained by Hamilton, was created to thwart the will of the people if a dangerous demagogue appeared to be taking over. It was also seen as a way to appease slave states.

The Electoral College has nothing to do with trying to make people "win the most states" you can win the EC with just 11 states. It has nothing to do with giving smaller states a larger voice, and that is backed up by contemporary records.

The President doesn't command cacti and prairie grass. The President commands people and people are equal no matter where they chose to live.

The claim that the EC is meant to protect us from population centers is even crazier. Guess what decides the outcome in most states? That state's population center. You know why? Because PEOPLE vote. Tumbleweed and outhouses do not vote.

We should be screaming this from the rooftops.

Why is a life worth less in California than it is in Wyoming?

And even if this were what the founding fathers wanted, then the founding fathers were WRONG. It isn't blasphemy to say that they were wrong.

Thomas Jefferson said this:

I am not an advocate for frequent changes in laws and Constitutions. But laws and institutions must go hand in hand with the progress of the human mind. As that becomes more developed, more enlightened, as new discoveries are made, new truths discovered and manners and opinions change, with the change of circumstances, institutions must advance also to keep pace with the times. We might as well require a man to wear still the coat which fitted him when a boy as civilized society to remain ever under the regimen of their barbarous ancestors.


We should be throwing that quote in the face of every single person who barks about what the founding fathers wanted as if the founding fathers were personally dictating Jesus Christ.

Historic NY

(37,449 posts)
32. People seem to think this has never happened before......
Sat Nov 26, 2016, 10:28 AM
Nov 2016

Presidential election of 1876 Samuel Tilden vs Rutherford B Hayes.

After a first count of votes, Tilden won 184 electoral votes to Hayes's 165, with 20 votes unresolved. These 20 electoral votes were in dispute in four states. In the case of Florida, Louisiana, and South Carolina, each party reported its candidate had won the state, while in Oregon one elector was replaced after being declared illegal for being an "elected or appointed official". The question of who should have been awarded these electoral votes is the source of the continued controversy concerning the results of this election.

marlakay

(11,370 posts)
37. We are just smart enough to know
Sat Nov 26, 2016, 11:53 AM
Nov 2016

It takes a majority of congress and Supreme Court to change electoral college. Pure math, more democrats live in CA and New York.

There is no fight, if the millions were evenly spread in red states also maybe but nothing we can do.

They act like its our fault for not screaming about some futile event.

Yes, we don't think its fair there are overall more dems but because of unfair systems they have more in congress.

Having a temper tantrum will just raise blood pressure.

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