Dissatisfied progressives weren't responsible for the loss, the problem was independents

[MrPurple]

This post got buried as a response 20 posts into a thread on another topic and I was hoping for some discussion on it.

There were Dems who thought Obama compromised too much with the R's, wasn't hard enough on Wall St., was too militaristic with the drones, too slow to come around on gay marriage - but they still turned out and voted for him in 2012 against the greater foe, just like Republicans do.

There appears to have been more of a problem in this election with people lacking enthusiasm for Hillary. She would have helped herself with a more straightforward answer about the email earlier on, so that she seemed more credible. I don't think the problem this election was with disloyal Democrats as much as independents, who (very wrongly, IMO) became convinced that Hillary was as corrupt or more corrupt than Trump and that saw their bad qualities as a trade off.

The media had a lot to do with this, and the legions of fools who see the Washington Post, NY Times as less trustworthy than the BS sources they get online. But, because there was a kernel of truth to Hillary handling her email server inappropriately and she didn't own up to that early, the right was able to piggyback a boatload of narrative on top of it and lots of independent voters bought into that perception.

A "cleaner" Democratic candidate like Biden, would have carried this election easily. I don't think it was about Hillary not being progressive enough and progressives not being enthused. It was the independents who saw a false equivalency of Hillary and Trump both being bad choices.

[CTyankee]

1. Can we just forget Biden for now...at the time he was too immersed in grief to even think about

public office. That's just history and we must move on. If he changes his mind and runs in 2020 then we can GOTV and campaign our hearts out for him. If I'm still around, I plan to...

[MrPurple]

2. Biden was just an example, my point wasn't about him

My point wasn't about Biden at all, but that too many people in here seem to blame the loss on Bernie supporters who were dissatisfied with Hillary. The issue wasn't the left, but all the people in the middle who bought into the narrative built around Hillary's email that she was corrupt and that Trump (ironically the most corrupt candidate in history) was a better choice.

I think that if Hillary had handled the email story differently when it started, she could have defused it a lot more. But, my contention was that the problem wasn't that Hillary wasn't progressive enough for the Bernie people. It doesn't need to be Biden, but another centrist Dem like Hillary, who didn't have her perceived baggage would have won.

[CTyankee]

3. I try not to t hink about it too much lest I start throwing up again...

so many "if onlys" but it is tough to just move on...

[yallerdawg]

4. Hillary clearly stated she used her email server for convenience.

She used the State Department system for confidential material transmission when needed.

You do understand this email thing was always a ginned-up rightwing smear - which obviously continues to work.

[MrPurple]

5. I understand that, but I think much of the general public bought into it.

[HopeAgain]

6. Hard truth: Hillary was just the wrong candidate at the wrong time

I agree that anyone who identifies solidly as an informed Democrat would not have voted for Trump. Here in Broward County where I live, we had a good turnout. But a friend who has been a poll worker in the same precinct for years told me he saw many, many white men also show up to vote that he had never seen before. I think that probably happened everywhere.

It may be too soon to say this, and I'm new to this site so it's probably been said before, but Hillary seemed to trigger everything that would get the blue collar male independent out to vote against her. I think a lot of people felt, including myself to a degree, that the private email server was also about entitlement, something I think a lot of people felt about her. By entitlement, I mean it appeared she was planning to be candidate for the Presidency all along while at State and she didn't want anything she did there to come out through the FOIA that would hurt her chances. The Podesta emails also oozed entitlement, quite frankly. My Congresswoman (DNC Chair) and her emails fit that narrative. Bill meeting with the USAG spoke volumes about a sense of entitlement. Even the way that the primaries proceeded, with little opposition except Sanders, felt like the party had ordained her eight years earlier, regardless of whether that was in fact true. Her big money donors, her mixing of Foundation and government. Entitlement, entitlement. All overblown? Maybe, but it fit a narrative that she just didn't have the demeanor to shake.

So I hate to say this, but I think the "Party of the People" felt like the new "Party of the Elite" in this election to many who are not committed to the Democratic Party. Trump somehow wrangled the title of populist and Hillary just was the wrong candidate to counter that.