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Thu Oct 15, 2015, 07:43 PM

 

Why are Sanders supporters so upset (if Sanders crushed it)?

If the pundits are wrong and that the majority of voters think Sanders crushed Clinton in the debate, eventually this will translate into support and (well) votes in the primaries and the general election.

So just chill, ignore the noise and play for the long game.

Sprouting conspiracy theories about the media really doesn't help your cause.

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Reply Why are Sanders supporters so upset (if Sanders crushed it)? (Original post)
hill2016 Oct 2015 OP
stone space Oct 2015 #1
hill2016 Oct 2015 #9
stone space Oct 2015 #16
sufrommich Oct 2015 #50
demwing Oct 2015 #2
hill2016 Oct 2015 #11
demwing Oct 2015 #21
hill2016 Oct 2015 #22
demwing Oct 2015 #26
artislife Oct 2015 #33
Generic Other Oct 2015 #44
pennylane100 Oct 2015 #20
That Guy 888 Oct 2015 #3
99th_Monkey Oct 2015 #4
hill2016 Oct 2015 #5
99th_Monkey Oct 2015 #8
hill2016 Oct 2015 #15
Egnever Oct 2015 #27
99th_Monkey Oct 2015 #34
Egnever Oct 2015 #35
peacebird Oct 2015 #6
hill2016 Oct 2015 #7
peacebird Oct 2015 #12
99th_Monkey Oct 2015 #13
hill2016 Oct 2015 #18
99th_Monkey Oct 2015 #37
sufrommich Oct 2015 #51
Warren DeMontague Oct 2015 #10
peacebird Oct 2015 #14
Warren DeMontague Oct 2015 #24
Dem2 Oct 2015 #36
Warren DeMontague Oct 2015 #41
Dem2 Oct 2015 #48
Warren DeMontague Oct 2015 #53
Dem2 Oct 2015 #54
Warren DeMontague Oct 2015 #55
Dem2 Oct 2015 #58
senz Oct 2015 #17
Uncle Joe Oct 2015 #19
hill2016 Oct 2015 #23
Uncle Joe Oct 2015 #25
Egnever Oct 2015 #28
Uncle Joe Oct 2015 #29
Egnever Oct 2015 #30
Generic Other Oct 2015 #45
AgingAmerican Oct 2015 #31
TexasTowelie Oct 2015 #32
ibegurpard Oct 2015 #38
CajunBlazer Oct 2015 #39
frylock Oct 2015 #40
Buzz cook Oct 2015 #43
pinstikfartherin Oct 2015 #42
WorseBeforeBetter Oct 2015 #46
mhatrw Oct 2015 #47
brooklynite Oct 2015 #49
Scootaloo Oct 2015 #52
Fawke Em Oct 2015 #56
LWolf Oct 2015 #57

Response to hill2016 (Original post)

Thu Oct 15, 2015, 07:46 PM

1. I find the Privitization of our Democracy disturbing.

 

Since when are the Democratic Debates not owned by The People?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1251685174

This strikes me as a Theft of Democracy, and should be a Felony.

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Response to stone space (Reply #1)

Thu Oct 15, 2015, 08:03 PM

9. first,

 

read through the Constitution and let me know what it says about Democratic Debates.

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Response to hill2016 (Reply #9)

Thu Oct 15, 2015, 08:07 PM

16. What part of "should" do you not understand?

 

read through the Constitution and let me know what it says about Democratic Debates.


This is a Theft of Democracy, and should be a felony.


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Response to stone space (Reply #1)

Fri Oct 16, 2015, 01:08 PM

50. The whole debate can be watched on YouTube.Who is being denied that right?

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Response to hill2016 (Original post)

Thu Oct 15, 2015, 07:52 PM

2. You tell us to chill

 

and then call us conspiracy theorists!

And you pretend you don't understand why we get upset...

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Response to demwing (Reply #2)

Thu Oct 15, 2015, 08:04 PM

11. do you have evidence

 

of a big media conspiracy?

If not, isn't that the definition of a conspiracy theorist?

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Response to hill2016 (Reply #11)

Thu Oct 15, 2015, 08:24 PM

21. Yes we do, and it been presented here several times - but you miss the point

 

you ask us to chill, insult us, then pretend you don't understand why we're fried.

It's because on the one hand, we see our democracy is at risk of being auctioned off to the oligarchs, while on the other hand, there's the pretense and the insults from the bullshit posts like yours!

Under the fucking circumstances, we're being damned civil.

Am I being clear enough now?

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Response to demwing (Reply #21)

Thu Oct 15, 2015, 08:26 PM

22. sure let's discuss the evidence?

 

care to offer proof of this grand media conspiracy against Sanders?

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Response to hill2016 (Reply #22)

Thu Oct 15, 2015, 08:42 PM

26. Nope, I don't particularly like you

 

so we'll have no more "conversations"...but if you want evidence of the media conglomerates conspiring together to create a false reality, start with these threads:

Whoop... There It Is... Gawd I Love The InterWebs !!!
6 Reasons Sanders Actually Won the Debate Despite What Pundits Claim
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=682652

Chris Matthews used these images to show why Bernie won the debate & how the media is biased
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=684048

Voters Overwhelmingly Say: 'Bernie Winner of Debate!' Corporate Controlled Editors Ignore Them!
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=681748

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Response to demwing (Reply #26)

Thu Oct 15, 2015, 09:22 PM

33. Ditto!

 

This thread and poster both are trashed!

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Response to demwing (Reply #26)

Fri Oct 16, 2015, 01:14 AM

44. As I recall even HC once spoke out against the great rightwing conspiracy

back before she changed her mind about whether it could help or hurt her chances to win election.

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Response to demwing (Reply #2)

Thu Oct 15, 2015, 08:10 PM

20. I think we safely ignore this OP advice.

It is a panic reaction to stunning performance by Bernie.

I believe that I think we are big enough to admit that Hillary also did a pretty good job. I hate this type of us against them attitude. While I am a very strong Bernie supporter, it will not be the end of the world if Hillary becomes the first woman president. The only reason to panic is when President Trump is inaugurated.

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Response to hill2016 (Original post)

Thu Oct 15, 2015, 07:57 PM

3. Why are all Democratic voters upset about the Benghazi hearings? n/t

 

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Response to hill2016 (Original post)

Thu Oct 15, 2015, 07:58 PM

4. Ahhh. maybe because well-paid M$M shills are liars, saying "Hillary Won!".

 

just maybe.

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Response to 99th_Monkey (Reply #4)

Thu Oct 15, 2015, 07:59 PM

5. like I said

 

it doesn't matter. If voters think Sanders won, he'll get more support and eventually voters.

So why worry about what these M$M shills think?

Questions: are M$M shills only those who think Hillary won or do they include those who think Sanders won?

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Response to hill2016 (Reply #5)

Thu Oct 15, 2015, 08:03 PM

8. You are right

 

that it doesn't matter. I'll give you that. Bernie wins anyway.

But lies, that go completely unanswered, become "conventional wisdom".

Fuck that shit.

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Response to 99th_Monkey (Reply #8)

Thu Oct 15, 2015, 08:05 PM

15. ok

 

so like I said, if Sanders is going to win, just chill out. You'll get there eventually.

How can an opinion (about who won) be a lie?

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Response to hill2016 (Reply #5)

Thu Oct 15, 2015, 08:45 PM

27. It does matter

 

If all the major news organizations are pushing false narratives. This seems to be a glaring example of a forgone conclusion being presented based on absolutely nothing.

When the only thing you can point to is the TV talking heads saying something as evidence of something being true and can point to many other things that seem to contradict that conclusion there is every reason for flags to go up.

It would be very easy to come to the conclusion that the media is trying to manipulate people in such a scenario. Maybe not, but knowing how the media works to manipulate the public on a daily basis if find the idea they are playing this one straight a bit difficult to swallow.

If you think manipulating elections doesn't matter because they are working for your candidate that is a problem as well.

Personally I couldn't care less who won the debate I will take pretty much anyone that was on that stage over the clowns running for the republicans. I do have a big problem with "news" organizations pushing an agenda. It is one of the reasons I got rid of the TV years ago.

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Response to Egnever (Reply #27)

Thu Oct 15, 2015, 09:39 PM

34. I think you may have missed my reason why, "it doesn't matter"

 

because "Bernie wins anyway". <-- THIS is why.

I also called M$M out for lying about it.

So why are you seeming to try to pick a fight on this, when we totally agree?

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Response to 99th_Monkey (Reply #34)

Thu Oct 15, 2015, 09:44 PM

35. I didn't reply to you

 



Back at ya

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Response to hill2016 (Original post)

Thu Oct 15, 2015, 08:00 PM

6. Why are the Hiilarious ones so desperate? "She won, she won!!!" Memories of 2007 perhaps?

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Response to peacebird (Reply #6)

Thu Oct 15, 2015, 08:02 PM

7. we're not desperate.

 

we're smug and over-confident.

opposite of desperate.

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Response to hill2016 (Reply #7)

Thu Oct 15, 2015, 08:04 PM

12. Again, just like Miss Inevitable supporters in 2007. And we all KNOW how that turned out.

By the way, her polling trends are going exactly the same this time out.
Just FYI.

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Response to hill2016 (Reply #7)

Thu Oct 15, 2015, 08:04 PM

13. "smug and over-confident" ...

 



You couldn't describe Team Hillary more accurately to date if you tried.

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Response to 99th_Monkey (Reply #13)

Thu Oct 15, 2015, 08:07 PM

18. but then

 

I think we have good reason to be after a great debate night. She blocked Biden and got all the great publicity (which is priceless).

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Response to hill2016 (Reply #18)

Thu Oct 15, 2015, 10:53 PM

37. "all the great publicity" mmm .. ok

 

She was "polished, poised & looked so presidential" ..

so we're not supposed to notice who her super-PACs represent.

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Response to peacebird (Reply #6)

Fri Oct 16, 2015, 01:12 PM

51. Or maybe months of DU's Sanders supporters crowing that

the debate would be the end of Hillary? You've all been claiming this would end her candidacy,it didn't,and now you expect complete silence from the DUers you all have been taunting for months,that's what makes you all so angry.

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Response to hill2016 (Original post)

Thu Oct 15, 2015, 08:04 PM

10. Probably the same reason that Hillary supporters who are supposedly convinced she's inevitable

Still feel the need to argue with folks on DU who support other primary candidates.

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Response to Warren DeMontague (Reply #10)

Thu Oct 15, 2015, 08:05 PM

14. Yes. The memories of 2007 are painful for them, & this appears to be Part Deux.

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Response to peacebird (Reply #14)

Thu Oct 15, 2015, 08:36 PM

24. Ive sort of assumed from the beginning that she was likely to be the nominee, so

If that is how it turns out, fine, she isnt my first choice right now but I will move on and enthusiastically support her in the general.

There seems to be a subset of her "fans" who seem to be massively emotionally over-identified with her, though, so on the off chance she doesnt get it this time, (again!!!) the shit losing will be astounding to watch.

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Response to Warren DeMontague (Reply #24)

Thu Oct 15, 2015, 10:00 PM

36. Seems both side could fit that description

no?

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Response to Dem2 (Reply #36)

Fri Oct 16, 2015, 12:24 AM

41. Maybe. I only know what i see.

And i see a group of people who have some sort of personal attachment to the idea of Hillary™, and now she "deserves" this, etc... Or it's "her turn"--- that doesn't have a whole lot to do with any concrete political issue positions she is advancing.

And no, that doesnt apply to "both sides".

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Response to Warren DeMontague (Reply #41)

Fri Oct 16, 2015, 01:03 PM

48. I was told in another post that if I didn't vote for Bernie, a doomsday scenario of sorts

would occur. This sort of rhetoric is extremely distasteful and it surely occurs on both sides.

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Response to Dem2 (Reply #48)

Fri Oct 16, 2015, 03:56 PM

53. I was told by a random guy on the street with a big sign that if I didn't accept Jesus

I would spend eternity in some cartoonish sort of lake of fire situation.



People say all kinds of silly shit.

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Response to Warren DeMontague (Reply #53)

Fri Oct 16, 2015, 04:14 PM

54. As I said, both sides are equally capable of "losing their shit"

...if/when their candidate doesn't win.

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Response to Dem2 (Reply #54)

Fri Oct 16, 2015, 05:19 PM

55. Thats not the same thing.

Im sure there are some bernie people who will complain or otherwise even go so far as to enter ralph nader territory if sanders doesnt get it- and at that point, screw em, i have no patience for that mentality any more so than i did in 2000 (or for the PUMAs in 2008, for that matter)

But you are missing -or ignoring- the central point im observing, here- namely, the personal, emotional over-identification some Hillary supporters have with her- not her positions, not what she stands for- she represents something, i think, in their own lives, payback or vindication or something, and its a valence that would not be filled by any other candidate-- and they have been operating from the get go on the assumption that she is "entitled" to this, it is hers because of.... Whatever. And they will positively, absolutely, come completely fucking unglued if she doesnt get it.

Thats a different situation than the ideological issues-driven reasons why some sanders supporters- wrongly, to my mind- might not support the nominee if it's not him. It's not about "Bernie Sanders" the dude, it's about what he stands for.

With a certain subset of Team Hillary, it most definitely is about HER and GOD DAMMIT ITS HER TURN SHE IS ENTITLED TO IT.

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Response to Warren DeMontague (Reply #55)

Sat Oct 17, 2015, 01:59 AM

58. I am not missing it I don't think

I've see that same behavior on Bernie's side.

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Response to hill2016 (Original post)

Thu Oct 15, 2015, 08:07 PM

17. "Conspiracy theory" is an easy gaslighting term.

 

So we shall continue to call 'em as we see 'em.

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Response to hill2016 (Original post)

Thu Oct 15, 2015, 08:10 PM

19. Because Bernie supporters know full well the power of propaganda, history is

chock full of hundreds of millions of people (including Americans) being deceived by their news sources in regards to reality.

Approximately 15 million people saw the debate, all the focus groups and Internet polls stated that Bernie was the hands down, winner but the corporate media pundits; who still wield considerable propaganda power while having major conflicts of interest rejected the will of the people and are now trying to create a different version of reality.

For all the millions of Americans; which never saw the debate, they're more vulnerable to being brainwashed by the self serving corporate media pundits.

Thanks for the thread, hill.

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Response to Uncle Joe (Reply #19)

Thu Oct 15, 2015, 08:30 PM

23. you have so little faith

 

in your fellow voters to decide for themselves how and when they want to engage with the political process.





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Response to hill2016 (Reply #23)

Thu Oct 15, 2015, 08:42 PM

25. Perhaps you're too young but I well remember the runup to the war with Iraq when the

corporate media taking dictation from Bush et al brainwashed over 70% of the American People into believing that Saddam Hussein (against all the evidence to the contrary, logic and just plain common sense) was behind 9/11.

That's only one example of having witnessed the corporate media's brainwashing power over the American People

We're not isolated in this, other nations throughout history had their peoples' views of reality warped by their media sources.


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Response to Uncle Joe (Reply #25)

Thu Oct 15, 2015, 08:50 PM

28. Well said

 

While i don't have a horse in the bernie hillary race. I do find the reaction of the pundits troubling.

Of course I have found them troubling for some time now so I don't know why this instance should be the least bit surprising.

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Response to Egnever (Reply #28)

Thu Oct 15, 2015, 08:54 PM

29. It's not surprising to me, they do have an inherent conflict of interest but I still find it highly

disappointing.

Peace to you, Egnever.

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Response to Uncle Joe (Reply #29)

Thu Oct 15, 2015, 08:56 PM

30. Nope not surprising at all really

 

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Response to Egnever (Reply #28)

Fri Oct 16, 2015, 01:17 AM

45. Even HC once found them troubling

She was the one who identified the great rightwing conspiracy after which they hounded her. Her followers have short memories.

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Response to hill2016 (Original post)

Thu Oct 15, 2015, 08:59 PM

31. It will not be swept under the rug

 

nt

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Response to hill2016 (Original post)

Thu Oct 15, 2015, 09:00 PM

32. The next debates in this order: CBS, ABC, NBC, PBS and Univision

or as an acronym: CAN PU

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Response to hill2016 (Original post)

Thu Oct 15, 2015, 10:58 PM

38. He didn't crush it

And neither did she. The media accolades are completely over the top and unwarranted. And the snark dismissals of the Internet polls and focus groups are also out of line. No they absolutely DO NOT measure general public opinion but what they DO measure is enthusiasm and that's why I suspect the results of them are making the supporters if a certain candidate so angry.

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Response to hill2016 (Original post)

Thu Oct 15, 2015, 11:26 PM

39. All this proves is that Bernie supporters loved their guy's performance....

(that’s a natural reaction) and took their enthusiasm to the web. There is absolutely no doubt that Sander's supporters are the most animated and the most active.

However, as former debater I tried to view the debate objectively and, while I really admired Bernie's enthusiasm and convictions, I came to the conclusion that Clinton won the debate hands down. There are only so many times you can say that the one percenters are riding the country into hell in different words without sounding repetitive. If you think that I came to that conclusion only because I support Hillary, I guess we are even on that score.

You heard what you wanted to hear, and that's okay, but that doesn't translate into debate points. If you don't like what you hear on the post debate coverage, by all means turn the TV off, but don't pretend that because others don't see the world as you do that some kind of conspiracy is afoot. Even if you do, it would probably be best to keep your conspiracy theories to your yourself; it makes your side sound like the Clintons. 

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Response to hill2016 (Original post)

Thu Oct 15, 2015, 11:55 PM

40. Why are Clinton supporters so upset about the email issue (if she did nothing wrong)?

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Response to frylock (Reply #40)

Fri Oct 16, 2015, 12:53 AM

43. Why aren't more Sanders supporters upset about the email and Benghazi witch hunts

And while we're at it why do some Sanders supporters pile on with the MSM and conservatives over the email non-scandal?

It's as if they don't know that a false attack by the MSM on one democrat is an attack on all of them. I'd find it hard to believe if I didn't know history.

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Response to hill2016 (Original post)

Fri Oct 16, 2015, 12:52 AM

42. Honestly, I don't care who "won" the debates...

...and I don't care who pundits say won or what the internet polls that night said. The upcoming polls in the next week or two will show us who gets a bump. Ultimately, who cares what those of us who are already biased think? What really matters is those who aren't political junkies and might vote.

This whole stink from my fellow Sanders supporters just doesn't matter to me. IMO, it's more important to focus on winning people over with the issues, not whining.

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Response to hill2016 (Original post)

Fri Oct 16, 2015, 01:24 AM

46. "Sprouting"?

Geez, in a another finger-wagging thread I learned all about Mr. "I have a Conscious." Seriously, if you all are going to taunt, at least make an effort to get it right...

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Response to hill2016 (Original post)

Fri Oct 16, 2015, 01:35 AM

47. Yes, in fact, it does. Anybody who thinks the corporate media

has not conspired to control and limit the boundaries of "legitimate political debate" in this country needs to get educated about reality.

Just a few years ago, corporate media would have pulled the plug on any talking head for so much as questioning whether the rich were getting too rich. That was shouted down as "class warfare."

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Response to hill2016 (Original post)

Fri Oct 16, 2015, 01:06 PM

49. ...because they think voters are dumber than they are...

THEY could all figure out who won, but the average voter isn't capable of the same thought process.

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Response to hill2016 (Original post)

Fri Oct 16, 2015, 01:38 PM

52. I'm not upset

 

I just think that declaration of who "won" ought to be decided by more than style.

I know, it's cray-cray

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Response to hill2016 (Original post)

Fri Oct 16, 2015, 05:20 PM

56. Because we know the media influences people.

That all indicators (online polls aside) showed Bernie "crushing it" only to have the media erode that belief with their Hillary cheerleading is annoying, but we I guess we should expect it. Hell, they ignored him for months.

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Response to hill2016 (Original post)

Fri Oct 16, 2015, 08:24 PM

57. I'm not.

And I'm not sure why you'd suggest that I am.

Upset.

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