2016 Postmortem
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This message was self-deleted by its author (Fawke Em) on Thu Oct 22, 2015, 06:00 AM. When the original post in a discussion thread is self-deleted, the entire discussion thread is automatically locked so new replies cannot be posted.
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)If Bernie, or his campaign, will address some of the more toxic of his most "enthusiastic" supporters, asking them to behave!
Fawke Em
(11,366 posts)I was attacked on Twitter by a Hillary supporter I never engaged with and don't even know. They just saw me on the #FeeltheBern hashtag.
Meh... it happens.
Anything you'd like to know of substance?
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)That IS of substance. But ... okay ... I'd like to hear more about his plans for Syria.
Fawke Em
(11,366 posts)The supporter question is gossip.
Most people aren't paying attention to that.
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)Most people aren't paying attention to that.
That is NOT what Black folks, and some Bernie supporting whites that ARE allies to Black folks, are saying amongst ourselves.
Fawke Em
(11,366 posts)I ever kissed was black.
I've grown up with black people. I didn't even know there was some dichotomy until I was nearing adulthood. It just wasn't "a thing" with my family.
What I don't understand is why so many black people like the Clintons. President Bill even admitted his Crime Bill resulted in the mass incarceration of minorities. His "welfare reform" bill did nothing but hurt minorities because it didn't address why they needed the help in the first place. I was reporting for a local newspaper in a tourism-based community (i.e. low pay for cyclical work) back then and I know what was happening to people - of all colors - and it wasn't pretty.
So, the black folks I know aren't saying those things, especially the Muslim black folks. Get back to me on that one, btw. They have double whammies.
Hiraeth
(4,805 posts)roguevalley
(40,656 posts)and are so oblivious to their own. Both candidates don't have to address them on forums. If they are actual surrogates in the press, maybe. But people arguing on a forum on the internet? Don't waste their time over stuff that isn't their fault or responsibility. There are real issues out there. Ask them that. IMO
Hiraeth
(4,805 posts)average American, no matter the gender or color.
DU seems to attract a certain type of political junkie outside of mainstream America.
R B Garr
(16,914 posts)your first comment to me was to tell me to shut up, but you can get away with that here. My post would be hidden if I did that to you.
I have to laugh at your sudden victim status after your unprovoked attack on me. Obviously the Bernistas are unaware of their hostility, which is apparently well known on the internet.
Fawke Em
(11,366 posts)Link, please.
And, I don't care about what the M$M, of whom I use to be a part, thinks of our disdain. They (we) deserve it.
Bread and Circus
(9,454 posts)1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)Bread and Circus
(9,454 posts)But we are supposed to obey you now and not be too uppity right? That's not gonna happen. Sorry.
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)that you or DU:Bernie will be happy to alert on.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)bravenak
(34,648 posts)1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)to led to your time out.
Gotta love my "allies".
bravenak
(34,648 posts)They know better than you what you need. Stop loving them.... You know the drill.
Fawke Em
(11,366 posts)You're the worst race baiter I've ever seen.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)You may be mistaken.
Guess what? I'm staying right here. You do not boss me around like I am a slave. Your tone says you feel like you have the right to direct my activities. Do not appreciate that at all. My family got freedom in the 1860's been here since the 1600s. You have no right to tell me what to do, ever.
Fawke Em
(11,366 posts)You ain't got NOTHIN' on me.
At least people rise, like me, rise to your plight instead of assuming you're all terrorists.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)It is very difficult dealing with those who think they can direct you because of your color and their lack of and then proceed to play the oppression olympics based off of the adversity of a relative of theirs whose skin they do not live in. If you see my posts in IP you'd know that you just told an avid supporter who has been called many forms of antisemite for supporting the liberation if Palestine from the Control of the Israelis. Go check. Then when you are actually the person who is the minority suffering institutional racism, you can come back to me and describe your life as a poc suffering adversity to me.
Fawke Em
(11,366 posts)what their child experiences? And hurts as much - maybe worse - than their child does.
You have to accept that some of us "white" folks know what it is to be a minority instead of automatically assuming we have no clue.
I don't know y'all's cliques around here, so I couldn't care less about who I told to do what. I know what people say when they say it.
I'm not trying to compare anything to yours. I'm saying I get it. Anyone fucks with my son... well... it's the same as fucking with me, only worse.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)You cannot compete with black women in the oppression olympics without looking terrible if you are basing it off of the adversity of someone not you. Not only do we have black children, we have black husbands and mothers and fathers and cousins and uncles and our OWN PERSONAL experience to use as fount of knowlegde. Lacking that, one lacks the experience in dealing with the day to day minutia of being marginalized in every facet of ones life.
None of 'you white folks' know internally what it is like to live in black skin with the history of our nation diplayed in ways that are horrifying that white folks just cannot notice and do not internalize or process in the same way.
Barring actual experience, the correct thing to do is to defer to those with experience in dealing with ths horrible affliction on what it is really like. Attempting to instruct the recipients of racism on how much you know, or trying to prove you know as much as they is a shallow and completely false reading of the situation, our society and our culture. You cannot know what you do not know and you will not learn if you think you already know.
If you understand, I'd suggest dropping the abrasiveness and demanding that strong black women leave 'your' thread and insulting them with terms like 'race baiter'. I tend to place those who find themselves completely comfortable with addressing black women as race baiters for discussing the pressing and deadly issue of racism as far far far to the right of me on the racial and social justice scale. I understand that I am much farther to the Left of you on this issue, but the terms you used in referring to me at one time were only used by rightwingers but have somehow since summer found itself comfortably nestled in the american progressive lexicon. This is a sad thing. I think you'd be horrified if when discussing palestinian liberation I said to you 'get out of here, you are the worst race baiter ever'. Strange to see white progressives call blak women race baiters for discussing issues of black lives mattering. Very sad.
Fawke Em
(11,366 posts)I know that I'm going to send my son off to college soon and he could also be accused of something atrocious when he moves out of our little bubble where everyone knows him and isn't scared of his name.
He may or may not be killed on the spot if "they" think it's him. If you don't think I don't KNOW what it feels like, you're badly mistaken. This is my baby. MY BABY. Not yours. I know other women whose Arab sons who have been killed or manipulated into jail for the rest of their lives.
What I know about you isn't nice. You tend to antagonize folks whom you "deem" not worthy of your piety. The strong black women I know don't act like that. They envelope you. They embrace you. They feed you. I don't know what black women you've been around, but it ain't the same women I have. I know you've been banned for it.
Strange to see people who can't recognize white supporters who can support them, but they push away anyway, despite the fact that MY SON could die at the hands of power as easily as yours. You need me. I need you. In the words of you're candidate, "Cut That Out!!"
bravenak
(34,648 posts)Do you think I have any better feeling or opinions about you? I refuse to call you names or demand you do as I say. Although you disrespect me, I have respected you while you continue with the insults. BECAUSE I AM STRONGER THAN YOU. You have done me wrong.
BainsBane
(52,999 posts)and belongs no where among Democrats. That is not how people on the left talk. If is not even how polite Republicans talk. Race-baiting is a right-wing trope intended to enforce the oppression of people of color and apartheid-like system of inequality. That you purport to be part of a party that is comprised predominately of people of color and would even dream of speaking that way is incredible.
Response to BainsBane (Reply #50)
Post removed
joshcryer
(62,265 posts)Obama and Clinton in 2008 had some really really toxic supporters and they didn't speak for the campaign either.
I think the supporters need to reign themselves in and poo poo those who are being toxic. I do that to the best of my ability over Sanders "supporters" that bash BLM but it can only go so far. I mean Sanders in the debates stated, clearly and unequivocally that "black lives matter" and yet we have OPs just in the past 24 hours "raising questions" about black peoples' intentions and motivations.
reformist2
(9,841 posts)I have to admit I still have a landline. I DO get some polling on that (not national polls, even though I've had it for 23 years and I always vote), but I never do on my cell, which I use most of the time. I only keep my landline because I'm the mother of a young child who may need it in an emergency (if her father, brother or I are hurt, for example, and can't call out). Once she gets just a few years older, I'll probably ditch it.
jeff47
(26,549 posts)The phone companies are required to provide 911 service to any phone line, whether or not it has phone service. So even if you cancel your land line, it will still have a dial tone and 911 will still work (so will 611, since the phone companies decided they might as well make it easy to sign up for phone service if the phone line has to stay connected).
They'll still know where the phone is, since that's identified to them using a different system than phone number.
She likes to call her Grandma and her little friends on that phone.
She's the baby and doesn't have a cell yet. That's kind of her phone. We promised her she'd get her cell when she was the same age as her brother when he got his - when they go to Washington D.C. with the Safety Patrol at the end of fifth grade (and she's an honor roll student, too, so, she'll be Safety Patrol).
My point is that 911 on cell phones is still not as specific as it is on landlines and if she's nervous, she may forget our address or something. It's just a safety net. I like those.
Uncle Joe
(58,028 posts)Thanks for the thread, Fawke Em.
99th_Monkey
(19,326 posts)Hillary's funding base of primarily BIG donors is the exact opposite of Bernie's broad base of labor unions and we-the-people-powered political crowd-funding donors at $31 each, on average. Yet I don't feel most voter understand or see this.
I feel that Hillary is openly defrauding voters by taking huge amounts of campaign cash from the likes of Wall St., Military Industrial Complex, Private Prison lobbyists & bundlers, , fossil fuel giants, et. al -- not to mention Dark Money SuperPACSs from only Lord knows who -- that are literally buying influence by "investing" in Hillary's run for the White House.
MY QUESTION IS: How can we best help voters ^ SEE THIS ^ uber-stark contrast, so they don't remain clueless about the blatant influence-peddling nature of Clinton's donor base, to a candidate who is transparently mimicking Sanders positions issue after issue, i.e. "I told Wall St. to CUT IT OUT!, saying she's closing private prisons, wants to get more aggressive addressing climate change, etc.
If voters begin to see this contrast,
1) many would be inspired to donate to Bernie's campaign,
2) they would rightfully get a squeamish feeling about voting for a candidate who is so transparently on-the-take, esp. seeing the contrast with Bernie's $31 each people-powered campaign,
3) they'd rightly become suspicious of her campaign rhetoric about "curbing" or "fighting" the very people financing her campaign.
4) Bernie would gain tons of votes that would otherwise go to unwitting voters who remained ignorant about this.
This may sound unduly harsh on Clinton, i know Bernie says he has a high regard for her; but I feel Bernie --with all due respect-- would be giving away the election to NOT make sure this contrast is clear in voters' minds on election day.
thanks so much for offering to do this. :
George II
(67,782 posts)99th_Monkey
(19,326 posts)What you say is technically true, yet thanks to CU Super-pac bundling & dark money works against both transparency and there are loop-holes the size of Texas. This graph illustrates the contrast I am referring to.
Also, actually my question was actually to Bernie, not directed to you. but thanks anyway for reminding us of CU's "fig leaf"
that .. "oh everyone's giving limit is the same, so no big deal"
hedda_foil
(16,362 posts)We can amplify and elaborate, but their strategy is what determines how Bernie is perceived and how he is covered by the MSM.
99th_Monkey
(19,326 posts)Bernie is in charge of his own campaign, no?
Hoppy
(3,595 posts)Ed Suspicious
(8,879 posts)Hiraeth
(4,805 posts)Just today I was talking with a colleague about, of all things, insole supports for shoes, specifically the gel insoles. She has flat feet and had to get custom made insoles for which insurance would not pay because it was not diabetic related foot issues.
what the fuck.
seriously.
George II
(67,782 posts)Denmark is a country where about 90% of their residents are native-born.
What works in Denmark could not possibly work in the United States.
CoffeeCat
(24,411 posts)You may be able to explain Democratic Socialism. You can pound home your message and you may be able to make strides. But why fight an uphill battle.
Reposition the branding of your campaign. Sanders needs to harken back to FDR. Explain it in those terms. It's beneficial because it gives people a clear, victorious illustration of "Democratic Socialism" without saying those words. Also, most people would love to go back in time--politically--when times were a bit more sane.
I think that is a winning strategy, for sure.
I worked in PR for many years. It is too difficult to try to teach people about something that is complex and easily misunderstood and mischaracterized. Furthermore, you have the right-wing machine that will constantly be trying to bastardize everything you say and do. "Democratic Socialism" just makes it so easy for them.
Bernie has a terrific message and he wants to do great things. He does need a bit of help in the "messaging" arena. This is no easy feat--especially when you are fighting disinformation from the right-wing crazies and all battles lobbed from Hillary.
All the more reason that Bernie's message needs to be as cogent, succinct and easy-to-understand.
99th_Monkey
(19,326 posts)Hiraeth
(4,805 posts)George II
(67,782 posts)...at any of his rallies.
Hiraeth
(4,805 posts)George II
(67,782 posts)Hiraeth
(4,805 posts)They would not listen
They're not listening still
Perhaps they never will...
no big deal at all.
George II
(67,782 posts)This game is fun, are we going to cover all five senses?
Hiraeth
(4,805 posts)we were seeing but, then I started talking and you don't know what we are talking about ...
could it be that you are not listening?
now go play your childish games elsewhere.
BainsBane
(52,999 posts)It's very strange.
artislife
(9,497 posts)CoffeeCat
(24,411 posts)...and I just wanted to thank you for your hard work and for volunteering.
Isn't it great living in Iowa during the caucus season? There's an electricity in the air!
Are you going to the JJ Dinner or to any of the events this weekend?