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Wed Oct 21, 2015, 09:35 PM

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This message was self-deleted by its author (Fawke Em) on Thu Oct 22, 2015, 06:00 AM. When the original post in a discussion thread is self-deleted, the entire discussion thread is automatically locked so new replies cannot be posted.

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Reply This message was self-deleted by its author (Original post)
Fawke Em Oct 2015 OP
1StrongBlackMan Oct 2015 #1
Fawke Em Oct 2015 #4
1StrongBlackMan Oct 2015 #6
Fawke Em Oct 2015 #7
1StrongBlackMan Oct 2015 #8
Fawke Em Oct 2015 #12
Hiraeth Oct 2015 #19
roguevalley Oct 2015 #26
Hiraeth Oct 2015 #29
R B Garr Oct 2015 #33
Fawke Em Oct 2015 #43
Bread and Circus Oct 2015 #13
1StrongBlackMan Oct 2015 #14
Bread and Circus Oct 2015 #15
1StrongBlackMan Oct 2015 #22
bravenak Oct 2015 #23
1StrongBlackMan Oct 2015 #30
bravenak Oct 2015 #32
1StrongBlackMan Oct 2015 #35
bravenak Oct 2015 #42
Fawke Em Oct 2015 #44
bravenak Oct 2015 #45
Fawke Em Oct 2015 #46
bravenak Oct 2015 #47
Fawke Em Oct 2015 #49
bravenak Oct 2015 #51
Fawke Em Oct 2015 #53
bravenak Oct 2015 #56
BainsBane Oct 2015 #50
Post removed Oct 2015 #54
joshcryer Oct 2015 #48
reformist2 Oct 2015 #2
Fawke Em Oct 2015 #5
jeff47 Oct 2015 #9
Fawke Em Oct 2015 #11
Uncle Joe Oct 2015 #3
99th_Monkey Oct 2015 #10
George II Oct 2015 #18
99th_Monkey Oct 2015 #55
hedda_foil Oct 2015 #24
99th_Monkey Oct 2015 #57
Hoppy Oct 2015 #16
Ed Suspicious Oct 2015 #27
Hiraeth Oct 2015 #28
George II Oct 2015 #34
LineLineLineReply -
Hiraeth Oct 2015 #41
CoffeeCat Oct 2015 #38
99th_Monkey Oct 2015 #58
Hiraeth Oct 2015 #17
George II Oct 2015 #20
Hiraeth Oct 2015 #21
George II Oct 2015 #31
Hiraeth Oct 2015 #36
George II Oct 2015 #37
Hiraeth Oct 2015 #40
BainsBane Oct 2015 #25
artislife Oct 2015 #52
CoffeeCat Oct 2015 #39

Response to Fawke Em (Original post)

Wed Oct 21, 2015, 09:39 PM

1. I'd like to know ...

 

If Bernie, or his campaign, will address some of the more toxic of his most "enthusiastic" supporters, asking them to behave!

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Response to 1StrongBlackMan (Reply #1)

Wed Oct 21, 2015, 09:46 PM

4. Maybe Hillary should do the same.

I was attacked on Twitter by a Hillary supporter I never engaged with and don't even know. They just saw me on the #FeeltheBern hashtag.

Meh... it happens.

Anything you'd like to know of substance?

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Response to Fawke Em (Reply #4)

Wed Oct 21, 2015, 09:51 PM

6. Perhaps; but, you asked what we would like to know from the Bernie campaign ...

 

Anything you'd like to know of substance?


That IS of substance. But ... okay ... I'd like to hear more about his plans for Syria.

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Response to 1StrongBlackMan (Reply #6)

Wed Oct 21, 2015, 09:53 PM

7. The Syria question is fair enough.

The supporter question is gossip.

Most people aren't paying attention to that.

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Response to Fawke Em (Reply #7)

Wed Oct 21, 2015, 09:57 PM

8. Well ...

 

The supporter question is gossip.

Most people aren't paying attention to that.


That is NOT what Black folks, and some Bernie supporting whites that ARE allies to Black folks, are saying amongst ourselves.

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Response to 1StrongBlackMan (Reply #8)

Wed Oct 21, 2015, 10:50 PM

12. I'm a Southerner. I'm white, but the first boy

I ever kissed was black.

I've grown up with black people. I didn't even know there was some dichotomy until I was nearing adulthood. It just wasn't "a thing" with my family.

What I don't understand is why so many black people like the Clintons. President Bill even admitted his Crime Bill resulted in the mass incarceration of minorities. His "welfare reform" bill did nothing but hurt minorities because it didn't address why they needed the help in the first place. I was reporting for a local newspaper in a tourism-based community (i.e. low pay for cyclical work) back then and I know what was happening to people - of all colors - and it wasn't pretty.

So, the black folks I know aren't saying those things, especially the Muslim black folks. Get back to me on that one, btw. They have double whammies.

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Response to Fawke Em (Reply #12)

Wed Oct 21, 2015, 11:31 PM

19. Another southerner here and none of the blacks I know are saying those things either.

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Response to Hiraeth (Reply #19)

Thu Oct 22, 2015, 12:02 AM

26. it makes me sort of laugh at how each side cries out about toxic supporters

and are so oblivious to their own. Both candidates don't have to address them on forums. If they are actual surrogates in the press, maybe. But people arguing on a forum on the internet? Don't waste their time over stuff that isn't their fault or responsibility. There are real issues out there. Ask them that. IMO

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Response to roguevalley (Reply #26)

Thu Oct 22, 2015, 12:09 AM

29. DU seems to be some odd assortment of political wonks. Not your usual run of the mill

average American, no matter the gender or color.

DU seems to attract a certain type of political junkie outside of mainstream America.

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Response to Fawke Em (Reply #4)

Thu Oct 22, 2015, 12:15 AM

33. HA, thats doubtful.....

your first comment to me was to tell me to shut up, but you can get away with that here. My post would be hidden if I did that to you.

I have to laugh at your sudden victim status after your unprovoked attack on me. Obviously the Bernistas are unaware of their hostility, which is apparently well known on the internet.

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Response to R B Garr (Reply #33)

Thu Oct 22, 2015, 12:35 AM

43. What attack?

Link, please.

And, I don't care about what the M$M, of whom I use to be a part, thinks of our disdain. They (we) deserve it.

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Response to 1StrongBlackMan (Reply #1)

Wed Oct 21, 2015, 11:00 PM

13. Are we too uppity for you?

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Response to Bread and Circus (Reply #13)

Wed Oct 21, 2015, 11:16 PM

14. No ... too dismissive. n/t

 

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Response to 1StrongBlackMan (Reply #14)

Wed Oct 21, 2015, 11:20 PM

15. Dismissive is hardly the word. Angry? Instigating? Fired up? Yes. Dismissive? No.

But we are supposed to obey you now and not be too uppity right? That's not gonna happen. Sorry.

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Response to Bread and Circus (Reply #15)

Wed Oct 21, 2015, 11:34 PM

22. Okay ... I'm going to disengage now because you are about to type something ...

 

that you or DU:Bernie will be happy to alert on.

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Response to 1StrongBlackMan (Reply #22)

Wed Oct 21, 2015, 11:40 PM

23. What the hell was that!?!?

 

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Response to bravenak (Reply #23)

Thu Oct 22, 2015, 12:12 AM

30. Baiting! And an example of exactly, what I was talking about. ...

 

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Response to 1StrongBlackMan (Reply #30)

Thu Oct 22, 2015, 12:13 AM

32. Very BOLD!!

 

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Response to bravenak (Reply #32)

Thu Oct 22, 2015, 12:17 AM

35. Almost as bold as the unalerted on/undisturbing to DU post

 

to led to your time out.

Gotta love my "allies".

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Response to 1StrongBlackMan (Reply #35)

Thu Oct 22, 2015, 12:29 AM

42. Better love them.

 

They know better than you what you need. Stop loving them.... You know the drill.

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Response to bravenak (Reply #23)

Thu Oct 22, 2015, 12:37 AM

44. Get off my thread.

You're the worst race baiter I've ever seen.

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Response to Fawke Em (Reply #44)

Thu Oct 22, 2015, 12:40 AM

45. Worse than Stockholm Syndrome? Race Nagging? Harassing black folks all over the internet?

 

You may be mistaken.
Guess what? I'm staying right here. You do not boss me around like I am a slave. Your tone says you feel like you have the right to direct my activities. Do not appreciate that at all. My family got freedom in the 1860's been here since the 1600s. You have no right to tell me what to do, ever.

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Response to bravenak (Reply #45)

Thu Oct 22, 2015, 12:47 AM

46. Try being the parent of a Palestinian.

You ain't got NOTHIN' on me.

At least people rise, like me, rise to your plight instead of assuming you're all terrorists.



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Response to Fawke Em (Reply #46)

Thu Oct 22, 2015, 12:55 AM

47. Try being black yourself instead of describing the adversity of others...

 

It is very difficult dealing with those who think they can direct you because of your color and their lack of and then proceed to play the oppression olympics based off of the adversity of a relative of theirs whose skin they do not live in. If you see my posts in IP you'd know that you just told an avid supporter who has been called many forms of antisemite for supporting the liberation if Palestine from the Control of the Israelis. Go check. Then when you are actually the person who is the minority suffering institutional racism, you can come back to me and describe your life as a poc suffering adversity to me.

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Response to bravenak (Reply #47)

Thu Oct 22, 2015, 01:05 AM

49. Do you not know that a loving parent feels

what their child experiences? And hurts as much - maybe worse - than their child does.

You have to accept that some of us "white" folks know what it is to be a minority instead of automatically assuming we have no clue.

I don't know y'all's cliques around here, so I couldn't care less about who I told to do what. I know what people say when they say it.

I'm not trying to compare anything to yours. I'm saying I get it. Anyone fucks with my son... well... it's the same as fucking with me, only worse.

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Response to Fawke Em (Reply #49)

Thu Oct 22, 2015, 01:20 AM

51. It can never hurt you as much as it hurts them. Realize that.

 

You cannot compete with black women in the oppression olympics without looking terrible if you are basing it off of the adversity of someone not you. Not only do we have black children, we have black husbands and mothers and fathers and cousins and uncles and our OWN PERSONAL experience to use as fount of knowlegde. Lacking that, one lacks the experience in dealing with the day to day minutia of being marginalized in every facet of ones life.

None of 'you white folks' know internally what it is like to live in black skin with the history of our nation diplayed in ways that are horrifying that white folks just cannot notice and do not internalize or process in the same way.

Barring actual experience, the correct thing to do is to defer to those with experience in dealing with ths horrible affliction on what it is really like. Attempting to instruct the recipients of racism on how much you know, or trying to prove you know as much as they is a shallow and completely false reading of the situation, our society and our culture. You cannot know what you do not know and you will not learn if you think you already know.

If you understand, I'd suggest dropping the abrasiveness and demanding that strong black women leave 'your' thread and insulting them with terms like 'race baiter'. I tend to place those who find themselves completely comfortable with addressing black women as race baiters for discussing the pressing and deadly issue of racism as far far far to the right of me on the racial and social justice scale. I understand that I am much farther to the Left of you on this issue, but the terms you used in referring to me at one time were only used by rightwingers but have somehow since summer found itself comfortably nestled in the american progressive lexicon. This is a sad thing. I think you'd be horrified if when discussing palestinian liberation I said to you 'get out of here, you are the worst race baiter ever'. Strange to see white progressives call blak women race baiters for discussing issues of black lives mattering. Very sad.

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Response to bravenak (Reply #51)

Thu Oct 22, 2015, 01:39 AM

53. I could read that screed, but

I know that I'm going to send my son off to college soon and he could also be accused of something atrocious when he moves out of our little bubble where everyone knows him and isn't scared of his name.

He may or may not be killed on the spot if "they" think it's him. If you don't think I don't KNOW what it feels like, you're badly mistaken. This is my baby. MY BABY. Not yours. I know other women whose Arab sons who have been killed or manipulated into jail for the rest of their lives.

What I know about you isn't nice. You tend to antagonize folks whom you "deem" not worthy of your piety. The strong black women I know don't act like that. They envelope you. They embrace you. They feed you. I don't know what black women you've been around, but it ain't the same women I have. I know you've been banned for it.

Strange to see people who can't recognize white supporters who can support them, but they push away anyway, despite the fact that MY SON could die at the hands of power as easily as yours. You need me. I need you. In the words of you're candidate, "Cut That Out!!"

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Response to Fawke Em (Reply #53)

Thu Oct 22, 2015, 01:45 AM

56. How do you embrace those telling you you are not wanted even postingon a thread?

 

Do you think I have any better feeling or opinions about you? I refuse to call you names or demand you do as I say. Although you disrespect me, I have respected you while you continue with the insults. BECAUSE I AM STRONGER THAN YOU. You have done me wrong.

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Response to Fawke Em (Reply #44)

Thu Oct 22, 2015, 01:17 AM

50. That comment is incredibly offensive

and belongs no where among Democrats. That is not how people on the left talk. If is not even how polite Republicans talk. Race-baiting is a right-wing trope intended to enforce the oppression of people of color and apartheid-like system of inequality. That you purport to be part of a party that is comprised predominately of people of color and would even dream of speaking that way is incredible.

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Response to BainsBane (Reply #50)


Response to 1StrongBlackMan (Reply #1)

Thu Oct 22, 2015, 01:04 AM

48. You can't expect that of a candidate.

Obama and Clinton in 2008 had some really really toxic supporters and they didn't speak for the campaign either.

I think the supporters need to reign themselves in and poo poo those who are being toxic. I do that to the best of my ability over Sanders "supporters" that bash BLM but it can only go so far. I mean Sanders in the debates stated, clearly and unequivocally that "black lives matter" and yet we have OPs just in the past 24 hours "raising questions" about black peoples' intentions and motivations.

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Response to Fawke Em (Original post)

Wed Oct 21, 2015, 09:42 PM

2. Bernie may be doing well in the real world, but Hillary's doing well in land-line polls!!!

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Response to reformist2 (Reply #2)

Wed Oct 21, 2015, 09:49 PM

5. LOL.

I have to admit I still have a landline. I DO get some polling on that (not national polls, even though I've had it for 23 years and I always vote), but I never do on my cell, which I use most of the time. I only keep my landline because I'm the mother of a young child who may need it in an emergency (if her father, brother or I are hurt, for example, and can't call out). Once she gets just a few years older, I'll probably ditch it.

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Response to Fawke Em (Reply #5)

Wed Oct 21, 2015, 10:01 PM

9. You don't actually have to have your own line for that.

The phone companies are required to provide 911 service to any phone line, whether or not it has phone service. So even if you cancel your land line, it will still have a dial tone and 911 will still work (so will 611, since the phone companies decided they might as well make it easy to sign up for phone service if the phone line has to stay connected).

They'll still know where the phone is, since that's identified to them using a different system than phone number.

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Response to jeff47 (Reply #9)

Wed Oct 21, 2015, 10:38 PM

11. It's OK.

She likes to call her Grandma and her little friends on that phone.

She's the baby and doesn't have a cell yet. That's kind of her phone. We promised her she'd get her cell when she was the same age as her brother when he got his - when they go to Washington D.C. with the Safety Patrol at the end of fifth grade (and she's an honor roll student, too, so, she'll be Safety Patrol).

My point is that 911 on cell phones is still not as specific as it is on landlines and if she's nervous, she may forget our address or something. It's just a safety net. I like those.

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Response to Fawke Em (Original post)

Wed Oct 21, 2015, 09:42 PM

3. That's a great article.

Thanks for the thread, Fawke Em.

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Response to Fawke Em (Original post)

Wed Oct 21, 2015, 10:19 PM

10. I have a question, related to Hillary's funding base of primarily BIG donors

 

Hillary's funding base of primarily BIG donors is the exact opposite of Bernie's broad base of labor unions and we-the-people-powered political crowd-funding donors at $31 each, on average. Yet I don't feel most voter understand or see this.

I feel that Hillary is openly defrauding voters by taking huge amounts of campaign cash from the likes of Wall St., Military Industrial Complex, Private Prison lobbyists & bundlers, , fossil fuel giants, et. al -- not to mention Dark Money SuperPACSs from only Lord knows who -- that are literally buying influence by "investing" in Hillary's run for the White House.

MY QUESTION IS: How can we best help voters ^ SEE THIS ^ uber-stark contrast, so they don't remain clueless about the blatant influence-peddling nature of Clinton's donor base, to a candidate who is transparently mimicking Sanders positions issue after issue, i.e. "I told Wall St. to CUT IT OUT!, saying she's closing private prisons, wants to get more aggressive addressing climate change, etc.

If voters begin to see this contrast,
1) many would be inspired to donate to Bernie's campaign,
2) they would rightfully get a squeamish feeling about voting for a candidate who is so transparently on-the-take, esp. seeing the contrast with Bernie's $31 each people-powered campaign,
3) they'd rightly become suspicious of her campaign rhetoric about "curbing" or "fighting" the very people financing her campaign.
4) Bernie would gain tons of votes that would otherwise go to unwitting voters who remained ignorant about this.

This may sound unduly harsh on Clinton, i know Bernie says he has a high regard for her; but I feel Bernie --with all due respect-- would be giving away the election to NOT make sure this contrast is clear in voters' minds on election day.


thanks so much for offering to do this. :

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Response to 99th_Monkey (Reply #10)

Wed Oct 21, 2015, 11:29 PM

18. What are considered "big" donors? The limit is the same for both candidates.

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Response to George II (Reply #18)

Thu Oct 22, 2015, 01:43 AM

55. This.

 

What you say is technically true, yet thanks to CU Super-pac bundling & dark money works against both transparency and there are loop-holes the size of Texas. This graph illustrates the contrast I am referring to.



Also, actually my question was actually to Bernie, not directed to you. but thanks anyway for reminding us of CU's "fig leaf"
that .. "oh everyone's giving limit is the same, so no big deal"

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Response to 99th_Monkey (Reply #10)

Wed Oct 21, 2015, 11:43 PM

24. That's the job of the campaign.

We can amplify and elaborate, but their strategy is what determines how Bernie is perceived and how he is covered by the MSM.

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Response to hedda_foil (Reply #24)

Thu Oct 22, 2015, 01:46 AM

57. Of course it's the job of the campaign, that's who this question is being directed to

 

Bernie is in charge of his own campaign, no?

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Response to Fawke Em (Original post)

Wed Oct 21, 2015, 11:22 PM

16. Advise him to get off of Denmark and European socialism and revert to F.D.R. and Johnson's Medicare.

 

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Response to Hoppy (Reply #16)

Thu Oct 22, 2015, 12:05 AM

27. Thom Hartmann agrees with this. I agree with him.

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Response to Hoppy (Reply #16)

Thu Oct 22, 2015, 12:05 AM

28. Agree with this. This election is about Americans and we really need to drive home single payer

Just today I was talking with a colleague about, of all things, insole supports for shoes, specifically the gel insoles. She has flat feet and had to get custom made insoles for which insurance would not pay because it was not diabetic related foot issues.

what the fuck.


seriously.

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Response to Hoppy (Reply #16)

Thu Oct 22, 2015, 12:17 AM

34. Denmark is a country of about 6 million people, the US is a country of close to 330 million.

Denmark is a country where about 90% of their residents are native-born.

What works in Denmark could not possibly work in the United States.

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Response to George II (Reply #34)

Thu Oct 22, 2015, 12:29 AM

41. -

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Response to Hoppy (Reply #16)

Thu Oct 22, 2015, 12:22 AM

38. I could not agree more!

You may be able to explain Democratic Socialism. You can pound home your message and you may be able to make strides. But why fight an uphill battle.

Reposition the branding of your campaign. Sanders needs to harken back to FDR. Explain it in those terms. It's beneficial because it gives people a clear, victorious illustration of "Democratic Socialism" without saying those words. Also, most people would love to go back in time--politically--when times were a bit more sane.

I think that is a winning strategy, for sure.

I worked in PR for many years. It is too difficult to try to teach people about something that is complex and easily misunderstood and mischaracterized. Furthermore, you have the right-wing machine that will constantly be trying to bastardize everything you say and do. "Democratic Socialism" just makes it so easy for them.

Bernie has a terrific message and he wants to do great things. He does need a bit of help in the "messaging" arena. This is no easy feat--especially when you are fighting disinformation from the right-wing crazies and all battles lobbed from Hillary.

All the more reason that Bernie's message needs to be as cogent, succinct and easy-to-understand.

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Response to Hoppy (Reply #16)

Thu Oct 22, 2015, 01:47 AM

58. I agree with this one. -nt-

 

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Response to Fawke Em (Original post)

Wed Oct 21, 2015, 11:29 PM

17. suggest registering voters at his rallies.

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Response to Hiraeth (Reply #17)

Wed Oct 21, 2015, 11:31 PM

20. That's what campaigns do, but from what we've seen there hasn't been any of that going on....

...at any of his rallies.

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Response to George II (Reply #20)

Wed Oct 21, 2015, 11:32 PM

21. and I just bet you get an eyeful.

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Response to Hiraeth (Reply #21)

Thu Oct 22, 2015, 12:12 AM

31. I wish I knew what you were talking about, but........

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Response to George II (Reply #31)

Thu Oct 22, 2015, 12:18 AM

36. you don't know because you are not listening

They would not listen
They're not listening still
Perhaps they never will...

no big deal at all.

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Response to Hiraeth (Reply #36)

Thu Oct 22, 2015, 12:20 AM

37. I thought we were talking about seeing, not you're on listening?

This game is fun, are we going to cover all five senses?

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Response to George II (Reply #37)

Thu Oct 22, 2015, 12:25 AM

40. silly ... boy ...

I wish I knew what you were talking about, but........


we were seeing but, then I started talking and you don't know what we are talking about ...

could it be that you are not listening?

now go play your childish games elsewhere.



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Response to George II (Reply #20)

Wed Oct 21, 2015, 11:59 PM

25. I've never heard of a campaign that doesn't register voters

It's very strange.

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Response to Hiraeth (Reply #17)

Thu Oct 22, 2015, 01:27 AM

52. He did in Seattle. nt

 

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Response to Fawke Em (Original post)

Thu Oct 22, 2015, 12:24 AM

39. I'm from Iowa too...

...and I just wanted to thank you for your hard work and for volunteering.

Isn't it great living in Iowa during the caucus season? There's an electricity in the air!

Are you going to the JJ Dinner or to any of the events this weekend?

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