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Mon Nov 9, 2015, 10:42 PM

The thing I can't figure the fuck out

The universal complaint about politicians is that you can't trust them and they don't tell the truth. This is a fundamental construct underlying the spin that camp weathervane employs.

So why the hell wouldn't you support someone who actually is honest and trustworthy? A once in a lifetime candidate.

It puzzles the fuck out of me.

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Arrow 169 replies Author Time Post
Reply The thing I can't figure the fuck out (Original post)
hootinholler Nov 2015 OP
LiberalArkie Nov 2015 #1
bvf Nov 2015 #2
PatrickforO Nov 2015 #3
Ed Suspicious Nov 2015 #24
BlueCheese Nov 2015 #26
Ed Suspicious Nov 2015 #27
BlueCheese Nov 2015 #30
PatrickforO Nov 2015 #51
Still In Wisconsin Nov 2015 #38
treestar Nov 2015 #104
Utopian Leftist Nov 2015 #143
treestar Nov 2015 #145
humbled_opinion Nov 2015 #154
99th_Monkey Nov 2015 #4
RKP5637 Nov 2015 #10
BKH70041 Nov 2015 #5
NurseJackie Nov 2015 #6
RKP5637 Nov 2015 #9
RobertEarl Nov 2015 #14
RKP5637 Nov 2015 #16
treestar Nov 2015 #103
winter is coming Nov 2015 #13
NurseJackie Nov 2015 #18
Art_from_Ark Nov 2015 #22
winter is coming Nov 2015 #29
840high Nov 2015 #68
Fairgo Nov 2015 #112
stillwaiting Nov 2015 #114
Bubzer Nov 2015 #132
treestar Nov 2015 #105
slipslidingaway Nov 2015 #25
NurseJackie Nov 2015 #42
slipslidingaway Nov 2015 #67
artislife Nov 2015 #39
NurseJackie Nov 2015 #43
passiveporcupine Nov 2015 #71
floriduck Nov 2015 #116
fasttense Nov 2015 #48
jmowreader Nov 2015 #57
Art_from_Ark Nov 2015 #99
Post removed Nov 2015 #59
fasttense Nov 2015 #73
treestar Nov 2015 #106
onecaliberal Nov 2015 #75
Art_from_Ark Nov 2015 #113
onecaliberal Nov 2015 #160
LiberalArkie Nov 2015 #152
humbled_opinion Nov 2015 #155
Renew Deal Nov 2015 #7
BootinUp Nov 2015 #8
shenmue Nov 2015 #118
SunSeeker Nov 2015 #11
Hydra Nov 2015 #12
NorthCarolina Nov 2015 #15
notadmblnd Nov 2015 #17
840high Nov 2015 #69
delrem Nov 2015 #19
zeemike Nov 2015 #70
ArcticFox Nov 2015 #110
Starry Messenger Nov 2015 #20
Aerows Nov 2015 #40
Starry Messenger Nov 2015 #50
Aerows Nov 2015 #52
Starry Messenger Nov 2015 #53
Aerows Nov 2015 #55
Phlem Nov 2015 #65
Starry Messenger Nov 2015 #78
xmas74 Nov 2015 #86
Starry Messenger Nov 2015 #89
xmas74 Nov 2015 #161
BeanMusical Nov 2015 #88
Starry Messenger Nov 2015 #90
BeanMusical Nov 2015 #91
Starry Messenger Nov 2015 #92
BeanMusical Nov 2015 #94
Starry Messenger Nov 2015 #95
BeanMusical Nov 2015 #97
Romulox Nov 2015 #136
CreekDog Nov 2015 #163
CreekDog Nov 2015 #164
Romulox Nov 2015 #135
Starry Messenger Nov 2015 #137
Romulox Nov 2015 #138
Starry Messenger Nov 2015 #139
Romulox Nov 2015 #141
CreekDog Nov 2015 #162
BeanMusical Nov 2015 #76
Romulox Nov 2015 #128
Phlem Nov 2015 #63
Phlem Nov 2015 #62
BlueCheese Nov 2015 #21
ConservativeDemocrat Nov 2015 #54
Art_from_Ark Nov 2015 #111
ConservativeDemocrat Nov 2015 #119
pnwmom Nov 2015 #23
Dem2 Nov 2015 #28
zentrum Nov 2015 #31
VanillaRhapsody Nov 2015 #32
Live and Learn Nov 2015 #33
Spitfire of ATJ Nov 2015 #34
Aerows Nov 2015 #37
Spitfire of ATJ Nov 2015 #77
Aerows Nov 2015 #93
Spitfire of ATJ Nov 2015 #96
Aerows Nov 2015 #98
Spitfire of ATJ Nov 2015 #100
Aerows Nov 2015 #102
ieoeja Nov 2015 #117
MohRokTah Nov 2015 #35
quakerboy Nov 2015 #60
MohRokTah Nov 2015 #82
mac56 Nov 2015 #120
MohRokTah Nov 2015 #122
druidity33 Nov 2015 #153
quakerboy Nov 2015 #166
MohRokTah Nov 2015 #167
quakerboy Nov 2015 #168
Fawke Em Nov 2015 #74
MohRokTah Nov 2015 #84
Aerows Nov 2015 #36
Fumesucker Nov 2015 #44
snagglepuss Nov 2015 #144
Fumesucker Nov 2015 #149
Warren Stupidity Nov 2015 #158
Prism Nov 2015 #41
alc Nov 2015 #45
Ed Suspicious Nov 2015 #121
Thespian2 Nov 2015 #46
Autumn Nov 2015 #47
Phlem Nov 2015 #49
Aerows Nov 2015 #61
Lil Missy Nov 2015 #56
Phlem Nov 2015 #66
marym625 Nov 2015 #58
BainsBane Nov 2015 #64
olddots Nov 2015 #72
BeanMusical Nov 2015 #79
waldo.c Nov 2015 #80
waldo.c Nov 2015 #81
lovemydog Nov 2015 #83
BlueStateLib Nov 2015 #85
Art_from_Ark Nov 2015 #101
BlueStateLib Nov 2015 #108
Art_from_Ark Nov 2015 #109
2pooped2pop Nov 2015 #87
treestar Nov 2015 #107
grasswire Nov 2015 #126
treestar Nov 2015 #146
Nye Bevan Nov 2015 #147
in_cog_ni_to Nov 2015 #115
fbc Nov 2015 #123
Enthusiast Nov 2015 #124
merrily Nov 2015 #125
hootinholler Nov 2015 #131
Faux pas Nov 2015 #127
LiberalLovinLug Nov 2015 #129
nolabels Nov 2015 #130
cannabis_flower Nov 2015 #133
Android3.14 Nov 2015 #134
snagglepuss Nov 2015 #140
Utopian Leftist Nov 2015 #142
Kokonoe Nov 2015 #148
rhett o rick Nov 2015 #150
Maedhros Nov 2015 #151
WillyT Nov 2015 #156
ChiciB1 Nov 2015 #157
99Forever Nov 2015 #159
Act_of_Reparation Nov 2015 #165
LWolf Nov 2015 #169

Response to hootinholler (Original post)

Mon Nov 9, 2015, 10:47 PM

1. Well I guess the person kind of knows what they are getting thus won't be let down.

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Response to hootinholler (Original post)

Mon Nov 9, 2015, 10:51 PM

2. Looking forward to some reasoned, intelligent

 

responses, in 1000..., 999..., 998...

Seriously, it is puzzling beyond reason.

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Response to hootinholler (Original post)

Mon Nov 9, 2015, 10:51 PM

3. Sanders is a once-in-a-lifetime candidate

There hasn't been anyone like him coming down the pike since FDR.

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Response to PatrickforO (Reply #3)

Mon Nov 9, 2015, 11:42 PM

24. And they fight sooo hard against him. Who was the last Democrat in a primary that people actively

fought against? I guess Obama, but before that?

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Response to Ed Suspicious (Reply #24)

Mon Nov 9, 2015, 11:43 PM

26. Anyone who's ever been a frontrunner.

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Response to BlueCheese (Reply #26)

Mon Nov 9, 2015, 11:45 PM

27. But according to all polls Bernie is not the frontrunner. How do you explain the howling opposition?

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Response to Ed Suspicious (Reply #27)

Mon Nov 9, 2015, 11:50 PM

30. Or close to being a frontrunner.

Sanders is hardly the only primary candidate to come under attack. And honestly, this primary campaign has been very polite so far.

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Response to Ed Suspicious (Reply #27)

Tue Nov 10, 2015, 12:44 AM

51. I don't know, Ed. Maybe, just maybe

these pollsters know something they're not telling us. Maybe Bernie IS the front runner but the oligarchs are fighting tooth and nail to discourage those of us who would vote for him so that we will not.

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Response to Ed Suspicious (Reply #24)

Tue Nov 10, 2015, 12:10 AM

38. Howard Dean, twelve years ago.

 

That whole fight had a similar vibe. We were all still smarting from Dubya's first "win" then and a lot of anti-Dean people tried to paint him as the "new Nader."

Same shit, different decade.

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Response to PatrickforO (Reply #3)

Tue Nov 10, 2015, 02:43 AM

104. Why didn't he run sooner then?

He could have run in 2008 when he was 8 years younger.

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Response to treestar (Reply #104)

Tue Nov 10, 2015, 04:38 PM

143. The country was not prepared to vote for a true progressive in 2008.

Certain things had to happen to bring enough of the American people around, to make that opportunity realistic. Internet, social media and Occupy were among them. Occupy changed the public discourse and gave us a new focus on income inequality, which sort of thrusts Bernie into the spotlight, itself, since he is an expert in that area.

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Response to Utopian Leftist (Reply #143)

Tue Nov 10, 2015, 04:51 PM

145. But the country is prepared now

Perfect username !

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Response to Utopian Leftist (Reply #143)

Tue Nov 10, 2015, 09:16 PM

154. and I agree

This is perfect opportunity for Bernie's equality message, other candidates for the Democratic nomination have had to evolve to this position.. This is the time, we will not get another shot.

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Response to hootinholler (Original post)

Mon Nov 9, 2015, 10:52 PM

4. Yep. That's been baffling me lately as well.

 

Yet again, US voters appear to be ready to vote against their own best interests, and love
doing it.

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Response to 99th_Monkey (Reply #4)

Mon Nov 9, 2015, 11:07 PM

10. Americans are experts at voting in people and then whining about what happens. Look at

congress, for example, very low approval rating, Americans vote them in, and then they sit around and whine. It's a nation of whiners and mourners.

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Response to hootinholler (Original post)

Mon Nov 9, 2015, 10:53 PM

5. The Answer

Depends on what the individual voter considers to be honest and trustworthy. In this case, some consider one to be and not the other. Some consider both to be. For me, I don't view any of them to be honest and/or trustworthy, so I have other criteria I personally use to decide for whom to vote.

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Response to hootinholler (Original post)

Mon Nov 9, 2015, 10:56 PM

6. He's too old. I don't think he'd survive the stress of the job. Seriously.

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Response to NurseJackie (Reply #6)

Mon Nov 9, 2015, 11:03 PM

9. I like him, but I did wonder about that especially into a 2nd term. n/t

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Response to RKP5637 (Reply #9)

Mon Nov 9, 2015, 11:11 PM

14. He'll be fine

 

He will get the best medical care as president. He could live to be 100, easily.

When he gets in office he will be so happy that so many ordinary people got off their butts and worked for him and got him elected. That means a lot or a person's health right there.

Besides, his VP will be quite capable and his staff the youngest, brightest, most capable we've ever seen. It will be fine. You can vote for Bernie with no worries.

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Response to RobertEarl (Reply #14)

Mon Nov 9, 2015, 11:22 PM

16. Yep!!! n/t

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Response to RKP5637 (Reply #9)

Tue Nov 10, 2015, 02:43 AM

103. Yeah he'd get to 82

My parents are that age. Not at one's full capacity at that age.

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Response to NurseJackie (Reply #6)

Mon Nov 9, 2015, 11:10 PM

13. He seems to be doing just fine with a grueling campaign schedule.

Hillary's no spring chicken, either.

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Response to winter is coming (Reply #13)

Mon Nov 9, 2015, 11:31 PM

18. Women live longer than men. Bernie's old and out of shape. He looks stooped and frail.

And although he's no scale-tipping Chris Christie, his apple-shaped belly concerns me. I doubt he'd last two years. (Who's his VP pick going to be?)

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Response to NurseJackie (Reply #18)

Mon Nov 9, 2015, 11:48 PM

29. Women _on average_ live longer than men. It's not an absolute.

I'd be a lot more worried about Hillary's blood clot than Bernie's belly.

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Response to NurseJackie (Reply #18)

Tue Nov 10, 2015, 01:10 AM

68. She has/had health problems and is not young.

 

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Response to NurseJackie (Reply #18)

Tue Nov 10, 2015, 07:50 AM

112. Ageist much?

I smell the faint odor of ableism with your nurse's nose for stooped shoulders and apple-shaped bellies and scale tippers. Any other non-sequitor, ad hominem projections you'd like to share? You are teaching us a great deal about the ethos behind your words.

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Response to NurseJackie (Reply #18)

Tue Nov 10, 2015, 08:21 AM

114. Hillary's health problems have been worse than Sanders. I'm more concerned about Hill's health tbh.

And, his VP pick will be someone that will fight for average Americans (even if it conflicts with corporate bottom lines) much harder than whoever Hillary picks.

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Response to NurseJackie (Reply #18)

Tue Nov 10, 2015, 02:53 PM

132. Old and out of shape? Stooped and frail? Are we really going down this road?

I could give you a litany about Hillary's problems to match and exceed anything you can find on Bernie.
I have an idea... how about sticking to the issues?

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Response to winter is coming (Reply #13)

Tue Nov 10, 2015, 02:44 AM

105. 6 years younger

makes a large difference at that age.

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Response to NurseJackie (Reply #6)

Mon Nov 9, 2015, 11:43 PM

25. Many of my relatives are doing fine in their 80's, then you could look at Carter ...

and what he has achieved in later years.

And Clinton is not that far behind Sanders, so do not fret too much about age.





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Response to slipslidingaway (Reply #25)

Tue Nov 10, 2015, 12:21 AM

42. Carter isn't under the pressures of being president.

Bernie is too old now before even starting. Republicans in Congress would just wait him out until the Vice President took over.

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Response to NurseJackie (Reply #42)

Tue Nov 10, 2015, 01:08 AM

67. Vote on age, gender or race if that is your criteria, it is not mine. n/t

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Response to NurseJackie (Reply #6)

Tue Nov 10, 2015, 12:13 AM

39. Six years difference 1941 v 1947

 

If you are so worried, you should switch to O'Malley.

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Response to artislife (Reply #39)

Tue Nov 10, 2015, 12:22 AM

43. He's too young.

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Response to NurseJackie (Reply #43)

Tue Nov 10, 2015, 01:15 AM

71. O'Malley is only two years youjger than Obama

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Response to NurseJackie (Reply #43)

Tue Nov 10, 2015, 11:01 AM

116. Just be honest.

 

The only reason you support your candidate is because she is a woman. We'd respect a serious answer more than the ones you've made up.

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Response to NurseJackie (Reply #6)

Tue Nov 10, 2015, 12:40 AM

48. The stress of the job didn't bother President Raygun

 

He was practically 78 when he finished out his last term. The stress didn't seem to bother him any, though he was senile during the last 2 years. But he was an idiot to begin with so no one noticed.

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Response to fasttense (Reply #48)

Tue Nov 10, 2015, 12:52 AM

57. Probably because Poppy Bush was the de facto president most of Reagan's term

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Response to jmowreader (Reply #57)

Tue Nov 10, 2015, 02:25 AM

99. Reagan was also exhibiting signs of senility for much of that time

He often thought he was on a movie set.

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Response to fasttense (Reply #48)


Response to Post removed (Reply #59)

Tue Nov 10, 2015, 01:21 AM

73. He looks fine to me

 

In fact I think he looks even better than when he started the race. He looks more put togeather and determined than when he first started. He has good color and he looks intelligent.

Raygun always looked pale and jaudice to me. That fake hair color didn't do his pallid skin any favors. And that constant look of confusion on Raygun's face. He even had it when he 1st took office and he supposedly didn't have any mental disfunctions. He always looked lost and confused and pale yellow with weirdly dark hair.

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Response to fasttense (Reply #48)

Tue Nov 10, 2015, 02:45 AM

106. worst argument ever

it didn't bother Raygun because he wasn't really trying to run the Executive branch. Other people did it for him and he spouted platitudes. He was a figurehead only (which has been true of all R Presidents since).

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Response to NurseJackie (Reply #6)

Tue Nov 10, 2015, 01:22 AM

75. Too old? That's a bullshit excuse. Especially since one like him will NOT come along again.

It might be too late for the planet anyway. Don't you people give two shits about the world we're leaving? I guess you all are lucky our elders didn't think like you because we damn sure wouldn't be living in free America now.

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Response to onecaliberal (Reply #75)

Tue Nov 10, 2015, 07:55 AM

113. Right on

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Response to Art_from_Ark (Reply #113)

Tue Nov 10, 2015, 11:18 PM

160. Thanks. That pisses me off.

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Response to NurseJackie (Reply #6)

Tue Nov 10, 2015, 08:49 PM

152. He knows it, if he gets the nomination he will have a great VP with him.

Watching a lot of the videos, he has kids drop out of the marches and he keeps going.

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Response to NurseJackie (Reply #6)

Tue Nov 10, 2015, 09:19 PM

155. How does that nonsense endorse

frail old grandma Hillary? You should be supporting Martin O'malley

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Response to hootinholler (Original post)

Mon Nov 9, 2015, 10:58 PM

7. Some things are too good to be true

Or there could be many promises, but few accomplishments.

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Response to hootinholler (Original post)

Mon Nov 9, 2015, 11:01 PM

8. Maybe you are trying to over simplify

the thing.

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Response to BootinUp (Reply #8)

Tue Nov 10, 2015, 11:51 AM

118. Exactly

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Response to hootinholler (Original post)

Mon Nov 9, 2015, 11:07 PM

11. Most people know all politicians "spin," including Bernie.

I, and I think most people, vote according who they think will get them what they want. Hillary is obviously that person to most people.

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Response to hootinholler (Original post)

Mon Nov 9, 2015, 11:09 PM

12. Cognitive dissonance

Team Hillary works for the ultimate actress. Each of them believe that what they believe of her and her platform will be real when she comes.

I believe each person holds their own individual things dear. I can appreciate that Hillary's hold dear list involves her family and not the rest of us, but I don't think that's a good basis to be the highest office of public servant.

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Response to hootinholler (Original post)

Mon Nov 9, 2015, 11:17 PM

15. Me too, but I think it has more to do with Bernie being a populist than

 

it has to do with "trust". Fiscal conservatives just don't like his take from the rich and help the poor and middle class approach. That includes fiscal conservatives of both GOP and Dem stripes.

Remember Claire McCaskill's grimaced face as she declared "why, he's a Socialist for god sake" in reference to Bernie Sanders. That in itself should tell you all you need to know about that group of 'democrats'. Bernies fiscal policy is, quite simply, abhorrent to them.

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Response to hootinholler (Original post)

Mon Nov 9, 2015, 11:27 PM

17. Cause he's not a woman?

Or maybe he's not the next in line to inherit the Bush/Clinton throne? I don't know.

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Response to notadmblnd (Reply #17)

Tue Nov 10, 2015, 01:11 AM

69. I think you got it.

 

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Response to hootinholler (Original post)

Mon Nov 9, 2015, 11:33 PM

19. In trying to grasp this as a Canadian I'm always brought around to

I'm always brought around to an understanding that somehow the actual political process of presidential elections in the US is rigged. The process facilitates a rigged game designed beforehand by a single team who wanted a facsimile of democratic choice but not the real thing.
Another example of that, exactly the same in kind, is democracy in Columbia after the coup in the 1960's, except the US example is much better established and managed long term. It has to be - it's the mother plant for all the clones.

How? The primary process which pits individual personalities against each other, rather than movements representing broad ideas, leads immediately into a general election which again pits individual personalities against each other. After each switch of administration the US is told that they've got a new slate, the old one being wiped.

This intense individualization makes it all about scandal vs show biz hype.

So here we have this primary with the R's on one side, the D's on the other, and the structure is dealt out by the MSM, Fox News, NBC, CNN. The MSM is a corporate tool, owned by ... Do I have to explain?? No, I don't.

It's a crime, is what it is - that the USA, which has turned the Middle East into a hellscape beyond comprehension, beyond reasonable explanation or even description - is playing out this charade. But there's nothing anyone in the world can do.

I mean, a country that even with such a rigged system decides that it also needs to use black boxes run by closed source proprietary software to tabulate votes? That's pretty wacko.

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Response to delrem (Reply #19)

Tue Nov 10, 2015, 01:12 AM

70. I think that is pretty accurate.

The game is rigged and us suckers have to pretend it is not for fear of social pressure and the charge of being a CTer.

We all know the chocolate rations went down, but we must insist it went up...or face the scorn of our fellow peps.

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Response to delrem (Reply #19)

Tue Nov 10, 2015, 03:38 AM

110. We have a winner

Which of the framers said we need a revolution every once in a while? Those guys knew something about history, about political systems, about human nature.

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Response to hootinholler (Original post)

Mon Nov 9, 2015, 11:34 PM

20. Maybe that isn't universal? Sounds like an assumption.

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Response to Starry Messenger (Reply #20)

Tue Nov 10, 2015, 12:20 AM

40. Maybe it seems like a dose of reality

 

We need a champion for the interests of the middle and low-middle class. It goes without saying that those in poverty can barely drag themselves out of it, because that is documented.

That includes you, school teacher. I remember seeing your Arne Pirate signature for several months after the Obama win. You want change in public school funding? You are going to end up with charter schools being the only option to teach in with Hillary, because she is full steam ahead on charter schools.

I get that it chapped a lot of ass when Hillary was defeated the first time, but doing the same old, same old that lost last time isn't going to achieve the goal of more Democratic candidates at *all* levels of government.

The Eye on the Prize is more Democratic candidates in all levels of government. It starts at home at the local level. I can't help it if people at my local level like Bernie better than Clinton. I can't help it if when I say "Hillary", the assorted comments that I get are rancid.

Bernie, even Republicans seem to like because they are just as damn fed up as everyone else is. I live in a red state, so I interface with said people every day, though I've never in my life voted for a Republican candidate.

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Response to Aerows (Reply #40)

Tue Nov 10, 2015, 12:42 AM

50. Please don't address me like that. We aren't friends.

"That includes you, school teacher. I remember seeing your Arne Pirate signature for several months after the Obama win. You want change in public school funding? You are going to end up with charter schools being the only option to teach in with Hillary, because she is full steam ahead on charter schools."

It's hyperbolic flights of fancy like that which is going to tank your candidate, so there isn't any reason for me to counter that kind of ridiculousness. People don't trust people who make sweeping statements. Like that.

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Response to Starry Messenger (Reply #50)

Tue Nov 10, 2015, 12:45 AM

52. I am not sorry

 

that I attempted to have civil discourse with you.

I'm just sorry that you chose insulting me, instead.

Have a great night!

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Response to Aerows (Reply #52)

Tue Nov 10, 2015, 12:46 AM

53. Projection noted.

Wavey-bye-bye.

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Response to Starry Messenger (Reply #53)

Tue Nov 10, 2015, 12:48 AM

55. Peace.

 

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Response to Starry Messenger (Reply #53)

Tue Nov 10, 2015, 01:06 AM

65. The Hillary in you speaks volumes.



Wavey-bye-bye.
Did you just say that to the logic in you as well? Projection!??



ahhh. ready for a beer.

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Response to Phlem (Reply #65)

Tue Nov 10, 2015, 01:29 AM

78. It will be fun to watch Bernie lose. You guys make it easy.

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Response to Starry Messenger (Reply #78)

Tue Nov 10, 2015, 01:41 AM

86. AUTOMATED MESSAGE: Results of your Jury Service

Mail Message
On Tue Nov 10, 2015, 12:35 AM an alert was sent on the following post:

It will be fun to watch Bernie lose. You guys make it easy.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=788361

REASON FOR ALERT

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.

ALERTER'S COMMENTS

This is an OTT response to a mild and innocuous post made in good faith. This kind of divisive nastiness needs to stop.

You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Tue Nov 10, 2015, 12:38 AM, and the Jury voted 2-5 to LEAVE IT.

Juror #1 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: In poor taste, but not abusive.
Juror #2 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: There's a lot of back and forth in that thread.
Juror #3 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #4 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: One said it about Hillary directly above but the same cannot be said about Bernie? Come on, act like freakin' adults around here. I'd prefer to see none of it but if you're gonna dish it better be able to handle it when it's flung back at you.
And you wonder why DU is becoming the punch line of a damn joke.
Juror #5 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No excuse for posting venomous comments about a great Democrat. Wrong message board.
Juror #6 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Both people in this exchange behlong in diapers
Juror #7 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given

Thank you very much for participating in our Jury system, and we hope you will be able to participate again in the future.

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Response to xmas74 (Reply #86)

Tue Nov 10, 2015, 01:49 AM

89. LOL.

I've seen Bernie supporters describe Hillary supporters as brain damaged, etc. Not one has called it out.

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Response to Starry Messenger (Reply #89)

Wed Nov 11, 2015, 12:16 AM

161. I thought you would enjoy it.

One of the jurors went off just a bit, lol.

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Response to Starry Messenger (Reply #78)

Tue Nov 10, 2015, 01:49 AM

88. ...



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Response to BeanMusical (Reply #88)

Tue Nov 10, 2015, 01:49 AM

90. Sorry your alert failed.

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Response to Starry Messenger (Reply #90)

Tue Nov 10, 2015, 02:00 AM

91. Lol! Sorry but it wasn't me.

If I had alerted on something it would have been on the other one where you were very rude to Aerows who was being polite and civil.

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Response to BeanMusical (Reply #91)

Tue Nov 10, 2015, 02:02 AM

92. *snort*

If that's polite, I would hate to see rude. Arrogant assumptions based on mistruths are not civil in my book.

Have a nice primary, it's going to be harsh.

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Response to Starry Messenger (Reply #92)

Tue Nov 10, 2015, 02:06 AM

94. Good luck, you're going to need it.

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Response to BeanMusical (Reply #94)

Tue Nov 10, 2015, 02:08 AM

95. That's right. It might be a strain when Clinton gets 50 pts ahead of Sanders.

I think we will soldier on under the pressure though.

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Response to Starry Messenger (Reply #95)

Tue Nov 10, 2015, 02:15 AM

97. Sure, whatever. Now look at that cool animated gif:





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Response to Starry Messenger (Reply #95)

Tue Nov 10, 2015, 03:46 PM

136. Supporting the wealthy and powerful over even common decency. At long last...

Naw, it's obvious you don't.

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Response to Romulox (Reply #136)

Wed Nov 11, 2015, 03:16 AM

163. what about when you went after the undocumented immigrants?

I think that lacked any common decency, it certainly does not fit into the purpose of DU.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=3665759&mesg_id=3667118

you used the term "illegal aliens" too. so how do you really feel? oh and you don't think we should apologize for slavery? really? you're above all that?

and you're lecturing someone else here? look in the mirror.

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Response to Romulox (Reply #136)

Wed Nov 11, 2015, 03:19 AM

164. She is to the left of you

If you spent any time in the labor, education or socialist groups, you'd know that.

Which makes me wonder how much cred you have as someone here claiming to be further left than her when you don't even seem to know how solidly left she is.

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Response to Starry Messenger (Reply #78)

Tue Nov 10, 2015, 03:45 PM

135. Shameful series of posts. You will never live this crap down. nt

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Response to Romulox (Reply #135)

Tue Nov 10, 2015, 04:02 PM

137. Nope, feeling great!

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Response to Starry Messenger (Reply #137)

Tue Nov 10, 2015, 04:06 PM

138. You may feel good, but your reputation (and credibility) has been sullied. nt

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Response to Romulox (Reply #138)

Tue Nov 10, 2015, 04:07 PM

139. For whom? You? LoL

I'll live.

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Response to Starry Messenger (Reply #139)

Tue Nov 10, 2015, 04:10 PM

141. That you are shameless is abundantly evident. nt

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Response to Romulox (Reply #141)

Wed Nov 11, 2015, 03:11 AM

162. Calling someone "shameless" is a huge accusation

but since you have, let's ask if your posts can stand the same scrutiny.

was this post, for example, "shameless"?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=4989539

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Response to Aerows (Reply #52)

Tue Nov 10, 2015, 01:22 AM

76. "I am not sorry that I attempted to have civil discourse with you."

The reaction of that poster was very startling and weird. I guess that civil discourse is not part of the agenda at that sewer site.

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Response to BeanMusical (Reply #76)

Tue Nov 10, 2015, 02:11 PM

128. That poster has been unmasked. She's a ersatz-socialist who fights for the Status Quo. nt

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Response to Starry Messenger (Reply #50)


Response to Aerows (Reply #40)

Tue Nov 10, 2015, 01:02 AM

62. Amen!

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Response to hootinholler (Original post)

Mon Nov 9, 2015, 11:37 PM

21. It's possible that not everybody agrees with your assessment of the candidates.

Or maybe they think another candidate is more prepared to be president.
Or would be better for the Democratic Party.
Or agrees with them more on a key issue.
Or any of a dozen other valid reasons.

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Response to BlueCheese (Reply #21)

Tue Nov 10, 2015, 12:47 AM

54. I distrust candidates who inspire cults

And think they have a monopoly on truth. Hell, Ted Cruz is mounting the same kind of purist crusade against the Republicans from the other side, and I have absolutely no doubt that he's "telling the truth" as he sees it. Would I want him to be President? No way in hell.

Of course, I don't accuse Senator Sanders of that kind of insane honesty. He's just a regular politician, mostly.

Senator Sanders is good at gesture politics, but as soon as anyone asks him how he'd get any of his pie-in-the-sky promises to the hard left base past the GOP congress, he just starts to mumble. Introducing legislation is not the same thing as passing it, Senator. And frankly it is disingenuous to pretend that it is. In other words, typical politics.

- C.D. Proud Member of the Reality Based Community

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Response to ConservativeDemocrat (Reply #54)

Tue Nov 10, 2015, 03:44 AM

111. Speaking of people who think they have a monopoly on truth

I would say that someone who bills himself as a "Proud Member of the Reality Based Community" clearly fits that description.

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Response to Art_from_Ark (Reply #111)

Tue Nov 10, 2015, 11:56 AM

119. You would be wrong

I did not coin "Reality Based Community". The phrase has an actual history to it. Look it up some time. You might be surprised.

- C.D. Proud Member of the Reality Based Community

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Response to hootinholler (Original post)

Mon Nov 9, 2015, 11:40 PM

23. Because he doesn't have much of a campaign organization

and he has burdened himself with the label, "Democratic socialist."

And he hasn't demonstrated much ability to work with people, other than to tell them how wrong they are.

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Response to hootinholler (Original post)

Mon Nov 9, 2015, 11:45 PM

28. What's all this talk about

camp weathervane anyway?

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Response to hootinholler (Original post)

Mon Nov 9, 2015, 11:50 PM

31. Me 2 hoot. n/t

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Response to hootinholler (Original post)

Mon Nov 9, 2015, 11:51 PM

32. It is?

 

I guess you must be talking about "that other Camp Weathervane"

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Response to hootinholler (Original post)

Mon Nov 9, 2015, 11:53 PM

33. Count me in there as well. nt

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Response to hootinholler (Original post)

Mon Nov 9, 2015, 11:58 PM

34. Want to hear one even weirder?

 

A well scrubbed middle aged white male poses with his family and claiming they are super-Christy and when they get to DC and get caught in a motel room getting a suitcase full of cash and cocaine while having paid sex with a guy dressed as a squirrel (bushy tail and all) the voter's first reaction is to think DC is so EVIL that it corrupted a good, super-Christy family man and their solution is to send yet another well scrubbed middle aged white male who poses with his family and claims to be super-Christy.

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Response to Spitfire of ATJ (Reply #34)

Tue Nov 10, 2015, 12:07 AM

37. Now you, Spitfire of ATJ

 

expressed what many of us wonder.

They didn't get corrupted on their way there, they got there because they were corrupted.

As an electoral body, we aren't asking the right questions.



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Response to Aerows (Reply #37)

Tue Nov 10, 2015, 01:28 AM

77. What I find disturbing is it still works.

 

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Response to Spitfire of ATJ (Reply #77)

Tue Nov 10, 2015, 02:05 AM

93. Precisely.

 

How it continues to work stuns me. P. T. Barnum wasn't wrong.

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Response to Aerows (Reply #93)

Tue Nov 10, 2015, 02:11 AM

96. So THAT'S why everyone says Red States suck....

 

They're full of suckers.

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Response to Spitfire of ATJ (Reply #96)

Tue Nov 10, 2015, 02:15 AM

98. I live in a red state

 

and I fight tooth and nail to get us toward more liberal policies that benefit the people.

I'm in MS.

I do as much as I can in my state to flip people to more liberal principles, because I am a whole-hearted advocate of liberal policy and the Democratic Party.

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Response to Aerows (Reply #98)

Tue Nov 10, 2015, 02:32 AM

100. The only way I can picture MS to flip is through rebelious millennials.

 

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Response to Spitfire of ATJ (Reply #100)

Tue Nov 10, 2015, 02:41 AM

102. I know

 

I fight the good fight anyway.

You will dampen my enthusiasm for electing great Democratic candidates the day dirt is shoveled over my grave.

And even then, I might come back to haunt those that dare pull an (R) lever .

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Response to Aerows (Reply #93)

Tue Nov 10, 2015, 11:32 AM

117. Actual exchange of posts I had with a DUer once.

 


Me: Rural corruption works because people just "know our politicians aren't corrupt because I've known them since kindergarten".

Him: I know for a fact that our local pols aren't corrupt.

Me: How do you know that?

Him: Because I've know all of them since kindergarten.


Sadly, he was not being sarcastic.


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Response to hootinholler (Original post)

Tue Nov 10, 2015, 12:02 AM

35. There is absolutely no way I believe Sanders is honest and trustworthy.

 

No way in hell do I believe that.

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Response to MohRokTah (Reply #35)

Tue Nov 10, 2015, 12:58 AM

60. That would lead one to ask about your sigline

You believe Sanders is dishonest and untrustworthy(curious what that would be based on, but thats a separate discussion), but you are willing to vote for him?.

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Response to quakerboy (Reply #60)

Tue Nov 10, 2015, 01:33 AM

82. Nobody who seeks public office is honest and trustworthy

 

Because that is my sincere belief, no politician has ever disappointed me.

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Response to MohRokTah (Reply #82)

Tue Nov 10, 2015, 12:46 PM

120. I feel sad for you.

And that is my sincere belief.

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Response to mac56 (Reply #120)

Tue Nov 10, 2015, 01:02 PM

122. My experience has been that politicians who push populism are the most...

 

dishonest and untrustworthy of the lot.

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Response to MohRokTah (Reply #122)

Tue Nov 10, 2015, 09:05 PM

153. So you think Clinton is dishonest and untrustworthy? nt.



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Response to MohRokTah (Reply #82)

Thu Nov 12, 2015, 06:39 PM

166. So why would you even bother voting for a presidential candidate?

Much less taking on the logo of one?

If they are all dishonest and untrustworthy, then there is literally no way to even guess what you will get when they reach the highest office, because everything to that point is just trying to get elected. So why give your vote or support to any of them?



I guess for myself, I would always rather try to puzzle things out based on the best available information, and then hope. I get dissapointed in politicians. And thats OK by me. I'd rather keep trying for better than to have given up.

BTW.. Ive known one politician who I guarantee was honest and trustworthy, at least in his roll as a politician. He ran locally. He ran because no one filed for the city council seat, and he felt it was his responsibility as a citizen since no one else was willing to do it. And as soon as someone filed the next election, he happily vacated.

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Response to quakerboy (Reply #166)

Thu Nov 12, 2015, 06:40 PM

167. Dishonest and trustworthy as they are, they affect my life and the lives of everybody. eom

 

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Response to MohRokTah (Reply #167)

Sun Nov 15, 2015, 02:39 PM

168. So do many things

Banks also effect everybody's life, but its quite rare that any of us would put their bumper sticker on our car.

Same for telecom companys. But Its pretty rare to see anyone using one of their logos as an avatar online.

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Response to MohRokTah (Reply #35)

Tue Nov 10, 2015, 01:22 AM

74. And Hillary is?



I can't WAIT for the FBI's report.

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Response to Fawke Em (Reply #74)

Tue Nov 10, 2015, 01:34 AM

84. See post #82 eom

 

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Response to hootinholler (Original post)

Tue Nov 10, 2015, 12:04 AM

36. I'm puzzled, too.

 

I don't understand the hatred for Bernie when he is a truth-teller.

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Response to Aerows (Reply #36)

Tue Nov 10, 2015, 12:24 AM

44. It's easier to forgive someone for being wrong than for being right

People who are right are so smug and superior, no one likes a know it all.

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Response to Fumesucker (Reply #44)

Tue Nov 10, 2015, 04:41 PM

144. That is one bloody amazing observation.

How true it is that it is easier to forgive someone for being wrong than for being right.

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Response to snagglepuss (Reply #144)

Tue Nov 10, 2015, 08:05 PM

149. I read it somewhere a number of years ago and it definitely resonated with me

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Response to Aerows (Reply #36)

Tue Nov 10, 2015, 10:55 PM

158. It's not puzzling to me.

 

Supporting Clinton for many means compartmentalizing all the crap of third way New Democrat capitulation compromise and corruption, assuming that that shit bothers you, and constructing a narrative where Clinton is not part of that.

Bernie destroys that narrative and the response is anger and retrenchment. New narratives are constructed to rationalize the anger. Bernie is a racist. Bernie is a sexist. Bernie is a commie. Bernie isn't a real democrat. Bernie supporters are evil people.

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Response to hootinholler (Original post)

Tue Nov 10, 2015, 12:20 AM

41. You thought people cared about policy?

 

That's cute.

No, not so much. This is all identity politics writ large.

My favorite bit is the African American community thinking the Clintons will do a damn thing for them. I mean, yeah, we have twenty years saying otherwise, but this time!

Ah.

Yeah.

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Response to hootinholler (Original post)

Tue Nov 10, 2015, 12:25 AM

45. What if I think ted cruz is honest and trustworthy

Should I vote for him because he honestly believes what he says and I can trust him to do it?

I think I need to agree with the candidate on issues as well as trust them.

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Response to alc (Reply #45)

Tue Nov 10, 2015, 12:54 PM

121. No. But that's just a weird question. Is he honest and right?

Cruz fails both tests. Bernie paases with flying colors.

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Response to hootinholler (Original post)

Tue Nov 10, 2015, 12:31 AM

46. Some responses in this thread are ludirous...

You would not vote for the best candidate because he is old, but you would vote for the 1%er, even though you know her policies will destroy the middle class and the poor...and this is rational thinking?...

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Response to hootinholler (Original post)

Tue Nov 10, 2015, 12:34 AM

47. I don't get it either. As a Latina Bernie speaks of things that matter to me.

He's the only candidate I find to be honest and trustworthy. He has a lifetime record of fighting on the right side of every issue and whenever it's brought up it's dismissed with hatred. It puzzles the fuck out of me too.

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Response to hootinholler (Original post)

Tue Nov 10, 2015, 12:40 AM

49. Same here my friend.

The disconnect is so freaking wide I think people have forgone critical thinking all together.

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Response to Phlem (Reply #49)

Tue Nov 10, 2015, 12:59 AM

61. Look up thread with my discussion

 

of educational policy, just so *an* issue can be discussed with someone that is an educator.

My sister is an elementary education teacher with a Masters of Education.

I'm rightly proud of her, and I listen to her when she gets upset with legislators choking the education system into incompetence via denying funds and pushing charter schools.

Nope, didn't want to discuss our education system. But my tone and verbiage usage? Yeah, that was all the individual wanted to discuss.

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Response to hootinholler (Original post)

Tue Nov 10, 2015, 12:52 AM

56. No explanation would satisfy you. Suffice it to say, a clear majority of Democrats favor HRC.

And incidentally, I know a lot of people who are honest and trustworthy, but I wouldn't want any one of them to hold the highest office in the free world.

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Response to Lil Missy (Reply #56)

Tue Nov 10, 2015, 01:08 AM

66. I know right!?

Just like in 2008!

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Response to hootinholler (Original post)

Tue Nov 10, 2015, 12:56 AM

58. you're not alone in this

I don't understand how anyone who calls themselves liberal, progressive or Democrat, can support someone that voted for No Child Left Behind, the Bankruptcy bill written by the banks, the Patriot Act and the illegal war in Iraq. Boggles the mind.

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Response to hootinholler (Original post)

Tue Nov 10, 2015, 01:04 AM

64. The fact is Sanders is no more honest than Clinton

according to fact checking sites.

Sanders's statements by ruling

Click on the ruling to see all of Sanders's statements for that ruling.

True6 (17%)(6)
Mostly True13 (37%)(13)
Half True6 (17%)(6)
Mostly False4 (11%)(4)
False6 (17%)(6)
Pants on Fire0
http://www.politifact.com/personalities/bernie-s/

Clinton's statements by ruling

Click on the ruling to see all of Clinton's statements for that ruling.

True39 (29%)(39)
Mostly True29 (22%)(29)
Half True26 (20%)(26)
Mostly False22 (17%)(22)
False15 (11%)(15)
Pants on Fire2 (2%)(2)

http://www.politifact.com/personalities/hillary-clinton/

(I personally think Politifact is far too generous toward him on some questions, like his statements on Super pacs, where they ignore the fact that one of the Super Pacs listed is run by a former Sanders staffer).

That point about Sanders not being more truthful has been made many times, yet people ignore it. The sad thing is how few actually care whether a statement is truthful or accurate. Too many have decided he is truthful because they choose what to believe based on what he says. The entire premise of your post is false, and I would suggest the far more salient question is why are so many so unconcerned with the truth and why are they so willing to suspend evidence and facts for deference to one man?

Perhaps you can start by telling us why he claimed in the debate that he didn't vote to grant immunity for gun corporations when in fact he did? That's a false statement easily refuted by the congressional record. In fact, following the debate, CNN ranked responses and Sanders had more false statements than anyone else. http://www.cnn.com/2015/10/13/politics/democratic-debate-fact-check/

I can predict the responses. The media, just like science, is in part of a corporate conspiracy all designed to stop a single man from assuming his rightful place as President of the United States. Just like PPP, YouGov, and every other polling outfit lies and the only people who aren't shills are those who think exactly like the chosen few who support Sanders.

This election will be over, and there will be many more to follow. Politicians will rise and fall, and people will be left with who they are at the end of it. In my view, no politician is worth sacrificing one's intellectual integrity. It isn't necessary to abandon concern for evidence and truth to support a politician. We need only examine their record, qualifications, and views and decide accordingly. The problem comes in when people expect perfection, and then end up having to ignore all kinds of things in order to meet that exalted standard, just as presenting another politician as evil requires distortion. The Manichean approach to politics is itself inherently dishonest.

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Response to hootinholler (Original post)

Tue Nov 10, 2015, 01:19 AM

72. 997

 

996. 995

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Response to hootinholler (Original post)

Tue Nov 10, 2015, 01:30 AM

79. Kick and R

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Response to hootinholler (Original post)

Tue Nov 10, 2015, 01:31 AM

80. 1) Because this is the country that elected G.W. Bush twice ...

 

...demonstrating the selfishness/stupidity/determinedly intransigent ignorance/vindictiveness of the conservative US voter.

2) because the US is so corrupt that it's hard for people to believe that there's an honest politician left in the country.

3) because people don't want to believe there's honest people striving for good in the face of that aforementioned corruption because that would require them to do something to help and the majority of the US electorate is scared out of it's wits and desperately trying to remain anonymous.

4) because a lot of American people don't trust anybody and are proud of it.

5) because America has been so corrupt for so long that most voters wouldn't know an honest man if they fell over him.

All that said, we've got to try. Work for Bernie, stump for Bernie, vote for Bernie.

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Response to hootinholler (Original post)

Tue Nov 10, 2015, 01:33 AM

81. see #80 : )

 

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Response to hootinholler (Original post)

Tue Nov 10, 2015, 01:33 AM

83. That and five bucks

gets you a beer. There are many other factors, including how well someone can effectively navigate progressive legislation through Congress.

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Response to hootinholler (Original post)

Tue Nov 10, 2015, 01:37 AM

85. Clinton never voted for the bankruptcy law and would have voted NO

Sen clinton supported passage S. 420 that included revised version of Senator Schumer’s
amendment to ensure that any debts resulting from any act of violence, intimidation, or
threat would be nondischargeable. Women can now be assured that they can continue to
collect child support payments after the child’s father has declared bankruptcy.

The legislation makes child support the first priority during bankruptcy proceedings. This
body agreed to include a cap on the homestead exemption to ensure that wealthy debtors
could not shield their wealth by purchasing a mansion in a state with no cap on homestead
exemption. In addition, I was concerned about competing nondischargeable debt so I worked
hard with Senator Boxer to ensure that more credit card debt can be erased so that women
who use their credit cards for food, clothing and medical expenses in the 90 days before
bankruptcy do not have to litigate each and every one of these expenses for the first $750.

Let me be very clear—I will not vote for final passage of this bill if it comes back from
conference if these kind of reforms are missing. I am voting for this legislation because
it is a work in progress, and it is making progress towards reform.

S. 420 failed in conference and never became law, and the next congress striped the amendments
and lost clintons support, in fact the Democrats tried to block the bill with a filibuster and
Clinton voted to maintain the filibuster.
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2015/09/22/1423815/-Something-I-Heard-About-Hillary-Clinton-is-Untrue-The-Bankruptcy-Bill-Edition

You guys say hillary play's fast and loose with the truth, you guys are ten times worse

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Response to BlueStateLib (Reply #85)

Tue Nov 10, 2015, 02:35 AM

101. You sure about that?

"Obama drew clear distinctions between himself and other Democratic candidates in the primaries, including Hillary Clinton and Biden, for their support for the bill. Obama has furthermore spoken critically of Senator McCain's support of the bill during general election campaigning, using it to push at a theme of McCain's alleged unconcern for the cares of working-class and middle-class families."

http://www.totalbankruptcy.com/news/articles/celebrity/obama-and-biden-bankruptcy-differences.aspx

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Response to BlueStateLib (Reply #108)

Tue Nov 10, 2015, 03:22 AM

109. Clinton did not vote because she was visiting Bill in the hospital

But during the primary campaign, Obama criticized her for supporting the Bankruptcy Bill.

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Response to hootinholler (Original post)

Tue Nov 10, 2015, 01:46 AM

87. media

 

Today I heard that Hillary is trying to reclassify pot and Bernie is trying to appeal to younger voters. Nothing about what he is saying about pot or how Hillary is following his lead almost daily with a watered down new view of his lifelong stances. The statements were true but what they leave out shapes public opinion. Many still think the news has an obligation to be truthful. We will never have anything close to a democracy as long as a handful of rich republicans own all of our media.
Now why the people on a site such as this seems determined to continue our downfall and vote against all of our own nest interest, I am at a loss for understanding too.

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Response to hootinholler (Original post)

Tue Nov 10, 2015, 02:47 AM

107. huh? Those who say that are pretty much equivalent with the Bernie side

in fact, it's a bit delusional to think Bernie's not a politician too. The Senate is very elite - how did he get there? Some miracle? If they are all bought and paid for, how did VT get out of it?

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Response to treestar (Reply #107)

Tue Nov 10, 2015, 01:47 PM

126. did you read the article today about how Bernie....

...is "leaving Silicone Valley money on the table"?

Wealthy California techies have offered him money, but he has turned it down.

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Response to grasswire (Reply #126)

Tue Nov 10, 2015, 04:53 PM

146. Still doesn't address how

He got into the elite body, the Senate. How did the oligarchs allow this ?

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Response to treestar (Reply #146)

Tue Nov 10, 2015, 05:16 PM

147. Bernie has certainly figured out how to win votes in Vermont.

Anyone should give him credit for that.

His problem is that America is not Vermont times fifty.

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Response to hootinholler (Original post)

Tue Nov 10, 2015, 10:54 AM

115. Some people always vote against their best interests.

In this case, there are probably quite a few who are voting based just on gender. They want a female president ! Voting based on gender, race, ethnicity or religion is just pathetic.

Then we have the Hillary supporters who are part of the GREEDY 1%. They -

1. Are wealthy themselves and couldn't care less about the less fortunate or the country as a whole. They're just like the RWers who say "I earned it and I don't intend to share it." You know, the "pull yourself up by your bootstraps crowd. It's all about ME! ME! ME! We already have a self processed greedy 1% here - he always posts about how wealthy he is. So, there's that group that LOVES Hillary.

2. Own a Corporation and don't want to pay taxes.

3. Work in the Executive branch of a corporation and don't want to pay taxes.

4. work in the Fracking industry and don't want to lose their job - to hell with the health of our planet, water, air, soil and food.

5. work for big AG and don't want to lose their subsidy.

6. work for GREEDY WALL ST. And don't want to pay transaction fees.

7. Work for/own Big Oil and fear losing their subsidy or their job. Planet be damned.

8. Work for Big Pharma and fear losing their subsidy or job.

9. work for Monsanto and know their job will be gone.

10. work in a PRISON FOR PROFITS and WILL lose their job.

11. Work for the Insurance Industry and Medicare for all will cost them a lot of $$$$$ - again, it boils down to GREED.

12. work for the Defense Industry which, thankfully, will be losing a lot of money.

So, basically it ALL boils down to pure GREED. They have zero empathy for their fellow citizens. They have no empathy for people in war-torn countries. They don't care if people have affordable healthcare. It's like we're back in the narcissistic 80's. It's all about ME.

Bernie's Presidency will be ALL ABOUT EVERYONE...not just the 1%.

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Response to hootinholler (Original post)

Tue Nov 10, 2015, 01:12 PM

123. Progressives are excited about a progressive candidate

 

Imagine that!

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Response to hootinholler (Original post)

Tue Nov 10, 2015, 01:12 PM

124. IMHO, life is a series of puzzles.

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Response to hootinholler (Original post)

Tue Nov 10, 2015, 01:39 PM

125. The other constant complaint: "They're bought and paid for. They owe their donors."

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Response to merrily (Reply #125)

Tue Nov 10, 2015, 02:51 PM

131. Yep I've heard that one too. n/t

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Response to hootinholler (Original post)

Tue Nov 10, 2015, 02:09 PM

127. I don't get it either

??????????????

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Response to hootinholler (Original post)

Tue Nov 10, 2015, 02:43 PM

129. Bernie is doing remarkably well

all things considered.
That is why he is even a contender in any way. That DESPITE the MSM ignoring him, DESPITE his, what some would call, radical socialist positions, and DESPITE not having a SuperPac...he draws the biggest crowds, and raises the most small money of the lot.

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Response to hootinholler (Original post)

Tue Nov 10, 2015, 02:46 PM

130. If you listened to enough lies then hearing truth is always going to be omnipotent

The other side of the coin is if you are lazy and not willing to do the work in reading, listening, investigating and just plain spending some of your precious time in finding out what is going on, then of course the lies will be effective on you. You cannot change Human nature, it's just how it is.

You have to wait for catastrophe before people react enough to make change. We are just a lazy lot of animals when we think our effort will not matter much and we are told a good a enough lie to think we can believe otherwise.

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Response to hootinholler (Original post)

Tue Nov 10, 2015, 03:26 PM

133. Maybe

It's because people don't really want to be told the truth and instead want to be told what they want to hear.

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Response to hootinholler (Original post)

Tue Nov 10, 2015, 03:33 PM

134. You are operating under the fallacy that HRC supporters are backing a potential leader

 

But as her votes for the PATRIOT Act, IWR and support of the TPP show, she is incapable of actually leading, any more than the passengers fighting over the steering wheel of the GOP clown car can lead.

Just like supporters of the opposition party frontrunners, it's about image over substance.

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Response to hootinholler (Original post)

Tue Nov 10, 2015, 04:08 PM

140. There is a famous quote somewhere about people prefering illusions

to truth. There are a number of illusions about Hillary that her supporters simply do not want challenged which reminds me of the scene in Streetcar Named Desire where Blanche Dubois asks for the light not to be turned on.

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Response to hootinholler (Original post)

Tue Nov 10, 2015, 04:19 PM

142. It's like you hit a root nerve or something...

The underlying truth is that many of her supporters are fundamentally opposed to true, leftist, progressive, liberal policy ideas and solutions. It's not that they believe Hillary's rhetoric, it's that Bernie's rhetoric terrifies them, because at heart they desire more to express the conservative archetype than the liberal. At heart, they don't believe in helping Everyone (including our poor, many of whom are among the world's most desperate). They don't believe it's possible, they rationalize that it will hurt the economy, which we on the left know is absolute, utter bullshit, that in fact, raising the wages (and Social Security benefits) of those at the bottom will only strengthen and improve the economy. Anyone who doesn't know that yet should read Robert Reich or Thomas Piketty, end of story, drop the mic, etc, LOL.

That's the only reason I can think of why they'd sell out those of us who are desperate, and choose Her over a heroic, once in a lifetime, towering figure.

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Response to hootinholler (Original post)

Tue Nov 10, 2015, 05:51 PM

148. Americans always vote for the best liar.

Honest and trustworthiness turns everything upside down. Its not fair when candidate-A can lie up a storm,

and candidate-B just walks around with the straight truth.

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Response to hootinholler (Original post)

Tue Nov 10, 2015, 08:39 PM

150. It's not really that hard. We've raise a lot of authoritarians in America.

 

No liberal teachings, just find a leader, usually the biggest bully, and follow blindly. Doesn't matter if they are honest. It really doesn't matter if they ignore poverty or assaults on our freedoms. They want to be on the tough guy (or gal) side. And what could be better than siding with the billionaires?

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Response to hootinholler (Original post)

Tue Nov 10, 2015, 08:42 PM

151. Hillary supporters care more about their emotional attachment to their hero

 

than they do about liberal governance, the well-being of the country, or the truth.

Some are outright charlatans flinging mud.

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Response to hootinholler (Original post)

Tue Nov 10, 2015, 09:23 PM

156. Color Me Confused...

 

We have a wonderful opportunity, and we are going to squelch it.


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Response to hootinholler (Original post)

Tue Nov 10, 2015, 10:01 PM

157. It's Baffled Me From Day One... BUT I Also Believe Deep

down somewhere in my soul that "SOME THING'S" gonna happen. As a Boomer I had similar feelings way back then BEFORE we rose up and made our voices heard.

This country is at a tipping point and everywhere I look I'm seeing signs of unrest from older people right down to the ones who are making louder and louder noises. THE MILLENNIALS! There are THREE in my immediate family and as I listen to them talk and interact with them, they aren't like the young people who supported Obama and got out and worked for him. They're more jaded and I think MORE fed up and are unwilling to buy the same old crap.

It's kind of like I was way back when. Could I be imagining this? I suppose so, but something in my gut says what I'm feeling is going to have results. ENOUGH is ENOUGH, we say that here, but for them they might be thinking it's TIME to march, revolt or make our voices heard through our actions.

I'm seeing pockets of many people beginning to stand up and making a lot of noise.

IT COULD BE BERNIE who they will follow. I know what I'm hearing from my circle of younger kids and their friends. Nothing set in stone, but LOTS of angst and realization going on.

TIME WILL TELL!

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Response to hootinholler (Original post)

Tue Nov 10, 2015, 10:59 PM

159. It defies logic.

Personally, I absolutely hate being lied to. Voting for a liar is not an option for me.

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Response to hootinholler (Original post)

Wed Nov 11, 2015, 12:37 PM

165. Because people are lying when they say they want a candidate who tells the truth.

They don't. They want a candidate who tells them what they want to hear.

Case in point: The Donald's staggering success.

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Response to hootinholler (Original post)

Sun Nov 15, 2015, 05:09 PM

169. Because

most people, under the posturing, really just want to be sheep led by others?

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