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Mon Nov 30, 2015, 01:43 PM

Infrastucture bank is not an evil plot by Hillary


https://www.americanprogress.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/InfrastructureBankReport.pdf

By establishing a centralized federal lending authority in the form of an infrastructure bank, the United States could:

Increase public investment in infrastructure

Leverage billions in additional private investment

Streamline existing federal lending initiatives

Increase the share of federal money that flows to projects meeting rigorous cost-benefit criteria
With a relatively modest investment, the federal government could enable the completion of numerous large-scale projects of critical economic importance throughout our country, potentially producing thousands of jobs in the process.

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Arrow 24 replies Author Time Post
Reply Infrastucture bank is not an evil plot by Hillary (Original post)
upaloopa Nov 2015 OP
1StrongBlackMan Nov 2015 #1
tammywammy Nov 2015 #2
Cali_Democrat Nov 2015 #7
SunSeeker Nov 2015 #21
AgingAmerican Nov 2015 #3
upaloopa Nov 2015 #6
AgingAmerican Nov 2015 #12
upaloopa Nov 2015 #17
AgingAmerican Nov 2015 #18
NCTraveler Nov 2015 #4
upaloopa Nov 2015 #5
NurseJackie Nov 2015 #11
jeff47 Nov 2015 #8
upaloopa Nov 2015 #9
jeff47 Nov 2015 #10
AgingAmerican Nov 2015 #13
jeff47 Nov 2015 #19
rogerashton Nov 2015 #14
rogerashton Nov 2015 #16
jeff47 Nov 2015 #20
rogerashton Nov 2015 #23
SidDithers Nov 2015 #15
angrychair Nov 2015 #22
rogerashton Dec 2015 #24

Response to upaloopa (Original post)

Mon Nov 30, 2015, 01:47 PM

1. But ... But ...

 

The WaPo writer said it was!!!!

Well, actually, the WaPo conflated HRC's non-rolled out policy initiative with that of a initiative that the (President) Obama Administration was supportive of ... and DU did the rest.

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Response to upaloopa (Original post)

Mon Nov 30, 2015, 01:56 PM

2. Sanders supports an infrastructure bank

Sanders explains how his Infrastructure bill will rebuild America's crumbling economy

National Infrastructure Bank: Capitalized with $5 billion a year, the NIB will leverage enough private capital to finance $250 billion in transportation, energy, environmental and telecommunications projects.

http://www.budget.senate.gov/democratic/public/index.cfm/2015/1/investing-in-infrastructure-will-support-13-million-jobs

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Response to tammywammy (Reply #2)

Mon Nov 30, 2015, 02:16 PM

7. Ya...but Bernie's infrastructure bank would fight the fascist oligarchy

 

Hillary's would not.

So Bernie's is better.

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Response to Cali_Democrat (Reply #7)

Mon Nov 30, 2015, 03:48 PM

21. LOL

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Response to upaloopa (Original post)

Mon Nov 30, 2015, 01:56 PM

3. The loans would only go toward projects that have a dedicated revenue stream, such as toll roads

 

And public private 'partnerships' AKA privatization.

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Response to AgingAmerican (Reply #3)

Mon Nov 30, 2015, 02:14 PM

6. Maybe read the article

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Response to upaloopa (Reply #6)

Mon Nov 30, 2015, 02:44 PM

12. I did

 

Perhaps YOU should read it!

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Response to AgingAmerican (Reply #3)

Mon Nov 30, 2015, 03:03 PM

17. Read the article. Most of these things are already private!

https://www.americanprogress.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/InfrastructureBankReport.pdf

The majority of proposals permit an infrastructure bank to offer long-term loans and loan guarantees of up to about 35 years, with the potential for flexible repayment schedules that would allow investors the time required to complete large-scale projects and begin recouping their costs via user fees, tolls, or other revenue sources. Entities eligible to receive financing would include state and local governments, private investors, or public-private partnerships. Eligible project areas vary somewhat between the plans but would almost certainly include energy, transportation, and water projects, possibly alongside environmental and telecommunications undertakings.

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Response to upaloopa (Reply #17)

Mon Nov 30, 2015, 03:10 PM

18. Privatization

 

AKA neoliberalism, AKA fascism.

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Response to upaloopa (Original post)

Mon Nov 30, 2015, 01:58 PM

4. You are attempting to educate people who just became interested in the process three months ago.

 

For that I give you kudos.

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Response to NCTraveler (Reply #4)

Mon Nov 30, 2015, 02:13 PM

5. Funny but these folks would be against FDR's

Works Progress Administration

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Response to upaloopa (Reply #5)

Mon Nov 30, 2015, 02:25 PM

11. Much of this reminds me of how Republican lawmakers ...

... opposed their OWN BILL after President Obama indicated that he also supported it. No matter how benign or routine or sensible or nondescript the policy is, no matter if their own candidate also supports it, it suddenly becomes an anathema if Hillary supports it.

"Blah blah third way, something something oligarchy, yadda yadda one percent, something else about landlines and focus groups for good measure."

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Response to upaloopa (Original post)

Mon Nov 30, 2015, 02:16 PM

8. No, it's an "evil plot" by lots of people.

Though I'd argue with the characterization as "evil".

The goal is to extract much higher interest for private investment.

Politicians can pretend they are not raising taxes in the short run, but those interest payments will have to come from somewhere.

Instead, we should do it "the old fashioned way" and just raise taxes. After all, the federal gas tax hasn't gone up since 1993, despite the fact that we have had inflation since 1993.

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Response to jeff47 (Reply #8)

Mon Nov 30, 2015, 02:20 PM

9. Do you even understand the concept?

The interest is paid by the borrower. It is income to the Federal Treasury.

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Response to upaloopa (Reply #9)

Mon Nov 30, 2015, 02:21 PM

10. Yes. Apparently you don't.

The Federal Treasury is not the only lender. In fact, under the proposed plan the government is the lender for about 5% of the funds.

The vast majority of the money comes from "private investment".

That's what "Leverage billions in additional private investment" in your OP means.

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Response to jeff47 (Reply #10)

Mon Nov 30, 2015, 02:46 PM

13. The OP didn't read the PDF

 

It's pretty obvious. It calls for privatization, but calls it 'public private partnerships'. Neoliberalism.

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Response to AgingAmerican (Reply #13)

Mon Nov 30, 2015, 03:18 PM

19. Wouldn't exactly be unusual for the OP to not read it. (nt)

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Response to upaloopa (Original post)

Mon Nov 30, 2015, 02:50 PM

14. It is a good idea, but there are some dangers.

I'm a Berniac, by the way.

The proposal for an infrastructure bank to fund projects that would pay for themselves through a steam of toll revenues is, so far as that goes, a good idea that ought to be implemented. It creates several kinds of benefits. The toll revenues would pay the bonds -- first claim -- and any surplus should then revert to the government.

The provision of road services for free is not a particularly progressive position. We should advocate efficient pricing of road services, and a zero price for road services is not efficient, especially if the roads are congested. Historically, roads have mostly been free because it costs a great deal to build toll plazas and staff them. (A bridge from Washington to Oregon was made free because the toll-collection lost money, if I am not mistaken.) With 21st century electronic technology -- EZPass (R), cellphones, satellite positioning -- there is no reason we should not each pay the cost of the roads we use.

The cost would not fall disproportionately on the poor, because the poor are more likely to use public transportation. People in chauffered cars probably would not pay their fair share, but the way to correct that is by means of a wealth tax.

There is a proposal on the right to establish toll authorities to manage these tolls, and auction them to be collected and managed by private firms -- a form of privatization. This must be prevented. The toll collection should be managed by government or by government-established nonprofits -- "quangos" -- with the clear mission of efficient, not profit-seeking, pricing. As Joe Stiglitz observes, a big part of the inequality in our society has been created by government giving away profitable assets to private sector "entrepreneurs." That is the danger we face here, and any proposal for an infrastructure bank should make it clear that the private sector will be kept out of the public patrimony that are our roads and highways. A public-private partnership means the government picks your pocket and the private sector banks the proceeds.

The way to prevent that is to back a progressive program for efficiently priced roads in public ownership, not to dismiss any pricing as nasty right-wing subterfuge.

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Response to rogerashton (Reply #14)

Mon Nov 30, 2015, 02:57 PM

16. addendum

The "Center for American Progress" does seem to take progressive positions as a whole, but it does also mention "public-private partnerships" that "offer shareholders a direct stake in projects." This is not perhaps evil, but is very stupid and in practice antiprogressive. It is this sort of stupidity that progressives ought to oppose, even -- no, especially -- when it comes from people we could agree with on many other matters.

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Response to rogerashton (Reply #14)

Mon Nov 30, 2015, 03:24 PM

20. Uh...not so much.

The cost would not fall disproportionately on the poor, because the poor are more likely to use public transportation.

Someone lives in a major city, and thinks everywhere else behaves the same.

Btw, here's how this works out in real life:
The "public-private partnership" forms a new corporation to build the toll road. The government guarantees the bonds, but they're supposed to be paid by tolls, so win-win! In return for their efforts, the corporation is granted a long-term right to collect those tolls. After all, the bonds have to be paid, right?

Then after the road is built, the corporation declares bankruptcy and dissolves. The toll collection rights are sold to another company as part of the bankruptcy. And then the government gets to make the bond payments, since they guaranteed the bonds. While not getting toll money.

This scam has been pulled many times in many states. We really do not need to nationalize it.

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Response to jeff47 (Reply #20)

Mon Nov 30, 2015, 04:08 PM

23. We agree, actually.

The danger I made explicit reference to was exactly that. As I said, public-private partnership means that the government picks your pocket and the private sector pockets the proceeds. It would be nice if you read what I wrote, instead of just the headline.

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Response to upaloopa (Original post)

Mon Nov 30, 2015, 02:54 PM

15. C'mon. EVERYTHING is an evil plot by Hillary...nt

Sid

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Response to upaloopa (Original post)

Mon Nov 30, 2015, 03:56 PM

22. Don't think its an "evil" plot by anyone

That being said, toll roads suck. This is our only possible future? Getting nickle and dimed to death on every fucking road I drive for all eternity? Private sector has carte blanche to raise prices all they want with the excuse "need to cover cost". Not to mention I continue to pay gas taxes and now I will pay for the privilege to drive to work or school everyday.
Again, the .08% get more rich with every passing day (as of 2014, .08% of wage earners in America earned 53% of the total value all wages in America) while more and more of my very limited income, as do many like me, goes to the the basic concept of "paying to just exist". Anyone that thinks this is a great plan can go fuck themselves.

At some point people like me will have no more to give. Without dramatic changes in the near future, just like climate change, it is not a matter of "if" but "when".

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Response to upaloopa (Original post)

Tue Dec 1, 2015, 08:55 AM

24. Thanks, upaloopa, for the link.

I found 1/2 hour yesterday to print out and read it. (I'm old: I'm still more comfortable reading from paper. Besides I can rack back.) The policy paper is about much more than roads, but it is in the case of roads that the generation of revenue to repay bonds is mainly an issue.

However "progressive" I do think that the paper is ambiguous on the privatization of infrastructure. "Public-private partnership" is a nice way of saying "crony capitalism." Both Hillary and Bernie have supported an infrastructure bank. If there are differences in their positions, it will be on this point. I haven't investigated that.

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