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Joe BidenCongratulations to our presumptive Democratic nominee, Joe Biden!

Sat Jun 22, 2019, 10:32 AM

 

About Biden's perspective regarding compromise...

Look, I don't think Biden is a racist, like in the classic Dixiecrat racist manner. But his words about compromise does cause concern to many minorities because it's foreshadowing of a pattern we would all like to see gone. In order to compromise, you have to give up something, and that something throughout the nineties (The Centrist Decade), and beyond, were issues that were of major concern to minorities.

We were bargaining chips for way too long, and frankly, in the white dominant world, our issues don't register as a priority.

This is a fact: the kind of things that concern us because we are people of color don't warrant consideration in the PERSONAL reality base of most white Americans. First thing to know about a poc is that we learn to develop situational awareness in order to avoid...trouble. This behavior is also known as healthy paranoia. It's exhausting sometimes the way we have to evaluate all the known factors, and include the expected patterns of racism and stereotypes BEFORE we share our opinions or make a decision. IT IS EXHAUSTING, but we learn to do this to avoid the common traps. And, yes, sometimes we're a step behind in our decision-making because we have to second guess everything we say and do. If we don't do this, one casual, impulsive moment might set off a racist who thinks we're being uppity and that galvanizes everyone around them. Metaphorically, it's like that scene in The Color Purple, when Oprah gets surrounded by the townspeople. It's discouraging to be right, and, yet, have to deal with that kind of reaction.

That brings us to the reaction from those who don't consider themselves racists, who add to this phenomenon. Their reaction is the most hurtful of all. We'll call them the "other white, non ethnic people."

This is what I can tell you about them. I have lived in a predominantly white culture society over the last few decades and minority issues do not come up in conversation, unless it's the usual stereotypical comments that get regurgitated because they have found some social acceptance. And I'm not talking about the obvious things that racist say that crosses the line of acceptable speech. I intentionally do not chose to be around racists and have cauterized those relationships over the years, so now I'm down to the "Other white, non ethnic people." And even among them, there are differences that I have found difficult to bridge because we have very different ways of living our best lives--even when we live under the same roof.

By comparison, racists know what they are doing is archaic and wrong. The one thing that can send them running to their backward caves is exposing their agenda of Making Whites Great Again. It simply is not accepted in its raw form. We can look them in the eye and they know that we're seeing them for who they really are. But it's harder to remove their advantage, when we have this other host of people who refuse to see it too. Essentially, they become complicit bystanders.

This is the part that is hurtful. I have observed among my other white, non ethnic friends and family members that they tend to doubt my ethnic p.o.v. because its not something that is part of their personal lives. This creates another obstacle to overcome. I have pointed out things to them that I felt were blatant and their response has been along the lines: "That's crazy, nobody thinks that way." And when I have been proven right, instead of accepting my observations, they just look away and you can almost see their brains going into Langolier mode, erasing the facts that disrupts their view of the world. Because, you see, accepting our point of view creates complications that just makes life harder in a world that favors the white dominant culture. "Too many rules! Too many rules" That's the kind of response you can get from a "Other white, non ethnic person" when you try to warn them about the situational awareness that you live by everyday. You see, they can walk freely, where you can't. They can show their curiosity in a way that would set off alarms if you did the same. So, they don't get the same societal electric shocks that will cause behavioral changes and so, they tend to dismiss our worries as just plain crazy, paranoia.

So, that's why minorities are uneasy about a white person who talks about compromise with the other side. We know that our issues are just academic factors to people who don't live our lives. And throwing us in as a bargaining chip isn't so hard to do for someone who has so many other personal benefits in the deals they make.

So, they may not be racists, but they are also not 100% committed to our cause.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Reply About Biden's perspective regarding compromise... (Original post)
Baitball Blogger Jun 2019 OP
LibFarmer Jun 2019 #1
EffieBlack Jun 2019 #26
LibFarmer Jun 2019 #27
EffieBlack Jun 2019 #28
LibFarmer Jun 2019 #29
EffieBlack Jun 2019 #37
sacto95834 Jun 2019 #38
Turin_C3PO Jun 2019 #2
Baitball Blogger Jun 2019 #3
Turin_C3PO Jun 2019 #6
Politicub Jun 2019 #9
Turin_C3PO Jun 2019 #11
Politicub Jun 2019 #12
Turin_C3PO Jun 2019 #14
marylandblue Jun 2019 #20
Politicub Jun 2019 #21
BootinUp Jun 2019 #4
NYMinute Jun 2019 #5
BootinUp Jun 2019 #10
Peacetrain Jun 2019 #13
Voltaire2 Jun 2019 #7
Baitball Blogger Jun 2019 #15
Pantagruel Jun 2019 #8
George II Jun 2019 #16
Baitball Blogger Jun 2019 #17
ode2joi1 Jun 2019 #31
Baitball Blogger Jun 2019 #33
loyalsister Jun 2019 #18
Baitball Blogger Jun 2019 #19
ode2joi1 Jun 2019 #32
Honeycombe8 Jun 2019 #22
aikoaiko Jun 2019 #23
Baitball Blogger Jun 2019 #24
EffieBlack Jun 2019 #25
Baitball Blogger Jun 2019 #34
PETRUS Jun 2019 #30
Baitball Blogger Jun 2019 #35
PETRUS Jun 2019 #36

Response to Baitball Blogger (Original post)

Sat Jun 22, 2019, 10:35 AM

1. lol

 

So, they may not be racists, but they are also not 100% committed to our cause.


1. Purity argument redux.

So, that's why minorities are uneasy about a white person who talks about compromise with the other side. We know that our issues are just academic factors to people who don't live our lives. And throwing us in as a bargaining chip isn't so hard to do for someone who has so many other personal benefits in the deals they make.


2. It is also funny when a non-minority speaks for ALL minorities about how they feel.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to LibFarmer (Reply #1)

Sat Jun 22, 2019, 05:34 PM

26. Your "lol" is insulting and inappropriate

 

Instead of laughing - out loud or otherwise - I suggest that you read this thoughtful and intelligent post again, think about it carefully and, if you still can’t come up with anything useful to say, just leave it alone.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to EffieBlack (Reply #26)

Sat Jun 22, 2019, 05:38 PM

27. lol Laughing out loud(ly)

 

I can decide about what makes me laugh and what doesn't. I don't fault people for not having a similar sense of humor.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to LibFarmer (Reply #27)

Sat Jun 22, 2019, 05:41 PM

28. Speaks volumes

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to EffieBlack (Reply #28)

Sat Jun 22, 2019, 05:45 PM

29. Actually, I agree with the OP and it is thoughtfully written

 

I can "feel" the sincerity in the OP.

However, there is still grouping and stereotyping with some innocuous criticism of someone who is as sincere and passionate about working with the other side to get something accomplished. There is also a subtle purity test.

So whatever volumes you conjured up with my response could be voluminously wrong.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to LibFarmer (Reply #29)

Mon Jun 24, 2019, 08:56 AM

37. I guess all of the "lols" and "purity argument reduxes" smears made it hard to see that you agree

 

“‘feel’ the sincerity” of the OP - especially since your two posts in the thread didn’t mention any of that.

I guess we need to read between the lols and insults to see what’s really in your heart, eh?

Gotcha

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to LibFarmer (Reply #1)

Mon Jun 24, 2019, 05:43 PM

38. I don't find this funny.

 

Even if you don't agree with what Baitblogger writes, he/she is sharing feelings which should at the very least should be respected. I hate it when people find the courage to say something to have another trample them. I hope this never happens to you. As a community of Democrats we should at least listen with understanding when one of us hurts.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to Baitball Blogger (Original post)

Sat Jun 22, 2019, 10:37 AM

2. Thank you for your thoughts on this issue.

 

I‘m a Biden supporter and I’ve given this a lot of thought. I know what he was trying to say but he said it in an awkward way.

My issue is that I worry that attacking him ruthlessly (which you’re not doing) will damage him in the GE against the true racist asshole, Donald Trump.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to Turin_C3PO (Reply #2)

Sat Jun 22, 2019, 10:39 AM

3. Thank you.

 

You are taking this post in the way it was intended. If Biden comes through the primaries, he will have my vote. And it is my hope that he runs through this gauntlet, coming through it changed and ready to lead in this new age.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to Baitball Blogger (Reply #3)

Sat Jun 22, 2019, 10:46 AM

6. Yes, I think he'll learn and change a lot before

 

these primaries are over. I like Elizabeth Warren too. She’s my second choice.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to Turin_C3PO (Reply #2)

Sat Jun 22, 2019, 10:49 AM

9. I don't think it will hurt him. This level of criticism is child's play

 

As long as he’s the front runner, slings and arrows will be directed his way. We have a great field of candidates and people are passionate. Besides, this level of heat is nothing like what’s coming in the general.

We also all have blind spots. What I mean is what I think is offensive or dismissive makes perfect sense and seems completely innocent to supporters of another candidate.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to Politicub (Reply #9)

Sat Jun 22, 2019, 10:53 AM

11. Yes, I get that he's not immune to criticism.

 

But my hope is (probably unrealistic) is that we keep our disagreements to policy issues and not devolve into personal attacks. I think most on this website are fair-minded but there’s been a few brutal attacks on our candidates (not just Biden).
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to Turin_C3PO (Reply #11)

Sat Jun 22, 2019, 10:58 AM

12. What you see as a personal attack often isn't. Except when it is.

 

I'll give you an example. I have been advocating for a Harris/Warren or Warren/Harris ticket. When I say something about it, I always get someone saying America isn't ready for two women or we need to play it safe. Most of the people who say it are Biden supporters or undecided. It frankly pisses me off to be so dismissive of two very smart women who would be a formidable force against Trump.

My question is always, if America isn't ready now, when will it be? I usually don't get a response. Is that a personal attack? It's based on a characteristic, which is being a woman.

While it makes me angry, I try to keep in mind that most of the people who disparage the idea are either so behind a candidate that they can not fathom another ticket winning, or they are afraid that not going with the safe choice will end up in failure. They believe (this is my opinion) that their comments are completely logical and innocent, and they wonder why I am so thick-headed that I can not agree with them.

I'm sure I do the same thing with other candidates. I'm going to try to have more empathy, and I am going to be forgiving of myself and try to do so of others who I know are not on DU to disrupt. Some folks are long-time posters and I owe them the benefit of the doubt. For people here to be disruptive, I liberally use the ignore button.

There are no safe choices for candidates. All candidates are vulnerable to something. The primary is the time to debate and unwind what may be problems for a candidate later.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to Politicub (Reply #12)

Sat Jun 22, 2019, 11:03 AM

14. Good post.

 

The criticism of Warren and Harris not being electable is, to me, bullshit. But yea, people have the right to say it and hopefully their criticism is coming from good intentions.

The kind of personal attacks I’m talking about is calling candidates racist, asshole, etc. (I’ve seen both used, sadly).

I guess I should be less sensitive but I’m just so damn worried about a repeat of 2016.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to Politicub (Reply #12)

Sat Jun 22, 2019, 01:49 PM

20. I've observed the same coming from some Biden supporters.

 

IMO it's because of the reason they want Biden -- safety. They believe Biden is our only salvation. Like a lifeboat. If someone tries to punch a hole in your lifeboat, you naturally get very upset.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to marylandblue (Reply #20)

Sat Jun 22, 2019, 01:55 PM

21. The lifeboat analogy is perfect

 

And makes sense.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to Baitball Blogger (Original post)

Sat Jun 22, 2019, 10:40 AM

4. Biden wins.

 

I got your thinking in the first few graphs. Biden addressed it. And he is right it’s just hard, nay, impossible for some to hear.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to BootinUp (Reply #4)

Sat Jun 22, 2019, 10:45 AM

5. They hear it but still maliciously and disingenuously spin it

 

as though it was something catastrophically bad.

This happens in divisive campaigns with operatives like David Sirota.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to NYMinute (Reply #5)

Sat Jun 22, 2019, 10:49 AM

10. Not what I was referring to,

 

I refer to the need for active resistance, perpetually. The greatest activists are the ones who in the end reached a compromise solution.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to NYMinute (Reply #5)

Sat Jun 22, 2019, 10:59 AM

13. Next up in the batters box.. Sirota is just spinning right now

 

This time I hope his strategies are more apparent to people..
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to Baitball Blogger (Original post)

Sat Jun 22, 2019, 10:47 AM

7. Both parties have to be negotiating in good faith.

 

This is not the reality of our times. The Republican Party has demonstrated repeatedly over the last 20 years that it has and respects no boundaries or traditions and that it is not acting in good faith.

Biden is stuck in the 70s and 80s. He appears to have learned nothing from Obama’s failure to find any cooperative behavior from the GOP.

We can’t afford another administration determined to find common ground with our home-grown fascist party.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to Voltaire2 (Reply #7)

Sat Jun 22, 2019, 11:41 AM

15. Yeah. It is our reality. Republicans do not negotiate in good faith.

 

It's like they kicked us to the curb.

The other factor that is a thing of concern: In the old days, Senators were heralded for bringing home the bacon, which made deal-making a two edge sword. Too many Dem Senators learned to cave in because they brought home the pork their state and cronies wanted. But they didn't prove to be good leaders for all the Dems in the nation. Running for president means understanding you're representing demographics that are larger than your local political structure..
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to Baitball Blogger (Original post)

Sat Jun 22, 2019, 10:47 AM

8. Corey's problem

 

is he's currently in the Senate trying to craft compromises with Trump supporters , probably more dangerous types of racists than out front racists like Thurmond et al.
Will Corey be called to account for consorting with the racists of his generation?
This is a bogus issue.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to Baitball Blogger (Original post)

Sat Jun 22, 2019, 12:17 PM

16. Could you explain this, please:

 

And throwing us in as a bargaining chip isn't so hard to do for someone who has so many other personal benefits in the deals they make.


Thanks.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to George II (Reply #16)

Sat Jun 22, 2019, 12:31 PM

17. White perspectives vs ethnic ones.

 

This is just generic personal interest: A Caucasian politician might see economic benefits more beneficial than social reforms. So it would be easy to give up one for the other in bartering.

I see how you can see that in another way. It wasn't intended as accepting graft. Just that it would be easier for a white politician to relate to one over the other, since he might not have a personal need for social reforms.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to Baitball Blogger (Reply #17)

Sat Jun 22, 2019, 06:22 PM

31. Perspectives

 

Didn't Joe watch for eight years the response BHO got trying to reach across the aisle? What makes them reach back with Joe? His whiteness? When you've got the social on your side, it then becomes about the economic. Whites are afforded the luxury, their basic human rights were denied. It took a civil war to start the ball rolling.
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Undecided

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Response to ode2joi1 (Reply #31)

Sat Jun 22, 2019, 08:39 PM

33. Living in Florida, getting bulldozed by incredibly unethical behavior by community leaders,

 

the impression I get sometimes is that that the civil war never ended. There is a backwater merit system that ensures that white privilege continues to survive around here, at our expense.
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Undecided

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Response to Baitball Blogger (Original post)

Sat Jun 22, 2019, 12:57 PM

18. Well said

 

To piggyback...
In doing anti-racist work with a group who has been pressuring policy makers to address old governmenmental habits that prop up white supremacy, one thing we have been doing is trying to educate. We have read and recommended White Fragility and What Does It Mean To Be White. I hope my effort here doesn't come across as whitesplaining because I know from your op that you know what I'm talking about. Although you may not fully agree.

The idea is to try to explain to other white people how even when we have good intentions, it is not helpful unless we see ourselves as part of the problem. Most of us sit in a position of superiority in a white supremacist society and accept it without question.

It's a casual arrangement where we have made an agreement to not rock the boat by opening our minds to the stark reality of racism. We are also comfortable with not making changes. And we do not object forcefully. Even when we learn about the initiating details of police violence towards nonwhite people. Vehicle stops are ground zero where many of the few bad apples have their moments.
Good white people are outraged and see the problem but they don't often speak up when policy makers look the other way or try to find common ground with LEO advocates who sometimes even have histories of malicious bigoted behaviors.
It took years to get white policy makers in my area to take it seriously. We proposed institutional changes in guiding principles and methodology. They proposed some unsatisfying initiatives like formal training on what to do during a vehicle stop.... for all drivers. As if all drivers are have that same risk and it is up to them to prevent police from behaving badly.
The guy who proposed it, tried to bolster his credibility with stories about his Apartheid protest days. We know he was sincere and trying to do something good but he was not willing to look at the problem through the eyes of a terrified Black teen pulled over by police for having a broken tail light or slightly overdue license plate.
No matter how good his intentions he was looking for a compromise that favors a white supremacist arrangement and would continue to dismiss the fact that traffic stops are threatening situations for nonwhite people and trying to escape the threat intensifies it.

Whiteness is not only privilege. I use the term white supremacy deliberately, because whiteness provides safety that not everyone has access to. And in US culture, it naturally places us in a superior social position. Not all white people are willing to see it and it does not mean they're racist. It does mean that they are comfortable enough with white supremacy to not reject it forcefully or actively, without worrying how white peers will react.

That is the essence of the problem of political negotiating with a segregationist. We'll never know what Biden gave in return and there is no possibility that he was getting support for anything that would have truly advanced a cause of racial justice. Because there hasn't been nearly as much as I once thought and Eastland's bigoted ghost is still lurking in this solidly white supremacist.country.

I will certainly vote for Joe Biden if he's the nominee but I really hope we do better. If ever there was a time to embrace consciousness of white supremacy and the state we are in, it is now. It's time for white people to do the work to destroy what overvalues us.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to loyalsister (Reply #18)

Sat Jun 22, 2019, 01:18 PM

19. I don't disagree with anything you've said.

 

We are all struggling to have our viewpoints understood, and the pieces will come together as a jagged jigsaw.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to loyalsister (Reply #18)

Sat Jun 22, 2019, 06:28 PM

32. Piggyback

 

I love you! You see the truth of it! It is hard for some to give up even a slice when they have had the whole pie!
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Undecided

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Response to Baitball Blogger (Original post)

Sat Jun 22, 2019, 02:02 PM

22. Governing requires compromise, as a rule.

 

You have 10 people...5 on this side, 5 on that side. If you want to pass a bill that requires a vote of 7, then you either don't pass the bill, or you work with the other side to get 2 votes. That will require an amendment or two to the bill, probably.

Because of that, the country goes forward, assured that one party has not run ramshod over the country, just because they had a majority for a few years. The advantage to a party is that when one party wins more than another, it is the one that gets the bills passed...the winning party's agenda, the bills that the winning party wants.

BUT, times have changed. We no longer have an opposite party that has any ethics or any desire to govern. All it wants to do is rob the country and line their pockets with it, while they can. And WIN elections. As many elections as possible, by any means necessary. It changes the rules impromptu to benefit itself, with no regard for the opposing party or half of the country's citizens. Laughing while demeaning the other party and refusing to follow the law and its own rules, daring the other party to try to do something about it.

The Republican Party is no longer, for the time being, a party that we can work with. They don't WANT to work with us. They WANT foreign interference. They WANT a tax cut bill that screws the working class and lines their pockets. They WANT to not confirm Justices and Judges that the other side appoints. They WANT to support a President who destroys relationships with allies and praises murdering dictators.

I think Biden hasn't caught on that there has been a significant, basic change in the Republican Party. It's not like they went a little too far in supporting a Reagan or even a George Bush. It's far worse than that. IMO, they have sold their souls to the devil, willing to have children caged and shipped off from their parents to parts unknown, never to be returned to their parents. Willing to accept lies about the conclusions of the Mueller Report, and to lie about it themselves. Willing to support a treasonous President.

As for compromise selling out minorities, I don't think that's any more of a concern than women's issues or worker's issues. The Democratic Party has solid cred for standing up for, and passing, bills that protect the rights of Af. Americans and other minorities. It was white men who passed the Civil Rights Act, and who passed the Voting Rights Act. It was white men who voted to allow black men to vote over a century ago, and later voted to allow women to vote.

That's not to say that they won't compromise on some bills that matter to Af. Americans or women or another group. But that doesn't mean they shouldn't compromise, because it is likely that the deal is...you either compromise, or there is no bill at all. The goal is sometimes to push the country toward a certain goal, as much as it can, rather than accomplishing the goal in one bill. Because if they need votes from conservatives, that's the choice: a compromise or nothing. For the Repubs, too. The glitch, now, though, is the Republicans do NOT bend or compromise, any more. So I have a problem with someone who wants to "work with" them, knowing that what that may mean is....WE compromise and bend toward them, while the Repubs stand strong in their position.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to Baitball Blogger (Original post)

Sat Jun 22, 2019, 02:04 PM

23. I believe you.

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to aikoaiko (Reply #23)

Sat Jun 22, 2019, 02:45 PM

24. Thank you.

 

Never realized the complications that would come from living in a community that lacks diversity, when you're own opinion is a minority in many different ways.

It is horrible to be a victim of gaslighting that is caused by a dominant white culture that can only remain dominant if it manages to suppress the opinions that are in direct opposition of their objectives.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to Baitball Blogger (Original post)

Sat Jun 22, 2019, 05:32 PM

25. This is a truly excellent OP

 

Thank you for taking the time to write it. Your words and perspective are important.
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Undecided

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Response to EffieBlack (Reply #25)

Sat Jun 22, 2019, 08:41 PM

34. Thank you, Effie!

 

That means a lot coming from you!
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Undecided

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Response to Baitball Blogger (Original post)

Sat Jun 22, 2019, 05:47 PM

30. The "moderate" white...

 

I must confess that over the past few years I have been gravely disappointed with the white moderate. I have almost reached the regrettable conclusion that the Negro’s great stumbling block in his stride toward freedom is not the White Citizen’s Counciler or the Ku Klux Klanner, but the white moderate, who is more devoted to “order” than to justice; who prefers a negative peace which is the absence of tension to a positive peace which is the presence of justice; who constantly says: “I agree with you in the goal you seek, but I cannot agree with your methods of direct action”; who paternalistically believes he can set the timetable for another man’s freedom; who lives by a mythical concept of time and who constantly advises the Negro to wait for a “more convenient season.”


-from "Letter from a Birmingham Jail," by Martin Luther King Jr.

Thanks for the OP.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to PETRUS (Reply #30)

Sat Jun 22, 2019, 08:43 PM

35. Thank you for reciting a quote from Martin Luther King Jr.

 

Very appropriate for the occasion. Timeless.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to Baitball Blogger (Reply #35)

Sat Jun 22, 2019, 08:44 PM

36. :)

 

It came to mind as I was reading your OP (which I thought was great).
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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