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Quinnipiac: "Which candidate do you think is most intelligent?" (Original Post) brooklynite Nov 2019 OP
Says more about the poll respondents than the candidates maximusveritas Nov 2019 #1
Why is Buttigieg more academically successful than the African American, Cory Booker? pnwmom Nov 2019 #3
Booker himself admits he only got into Stanford because of his football abilities maximusveritas Nov 2019 #4
What? SaschaHM Nov 2019 #5
So number of degrees equates to intelligence in your mind? maximusveritas Nov 2019 #9
Booker has much higher degrees than Buttigieg and a lot more of them. Blue_true Nov 2019 #53
I think they're all pretty smart... dawg day Nov 2019 #51
Booker was being modest. He didn't get into Yale law school because of his football. pnwmom Nov 2019 #7
You are comparing apples and oranges. Harvard is well known for passing out pnwmom Nov 2019 #10
I have a nephew that is a good athlete in high school and an excellent student. Blue_true Nov 2019 #54
Booker managed to do well enough academically, despite his heavy football schedule, pnwmom Nov 2019 #57
Good reply, a wee bit defensive, lol. I've decided BootinUp Nov 2019 #13
Why is that a good reply? Are you aware that Harvard gives honors to about 90% of its graduates, pnwmom Nov 2019 #16
Because it's the posters opinion, and because BootinUp Nov 2019 #17
I don't think it's a coincidence that the three at the bottom of the list pnwmom Nov 2019 #19
One factor seems to be familiarity or popularity BootinUp Nov 2019 #21
Bollocks, Buttigieg graduated magna cum laude, it is a flat Celerity Nov 2019 #29
I didn't say 90% graduated magna cum laude. But because of grade inflation at Harvard, pnwmom Nov 2019 #44
Well, my son was borderline acceptance into helpisontheway Nov 2019 #36
It is interesting that I've heard Buttigieg is a Rhodes Scholar but I never heard the same about JonLP24 Nov 2019 #26
Booker was a very elite Rhodes Scholar. nt Blue_true Nov 2019 #55
"but Mayor Pete only has a BA." madaboutharry Nov 2019 #30
Who would learn a language treestar Nov 2019 #59
Pete for sure Groundhawg Nov 2019 #39
I wonder why Booker, Klobuchar, and Castro are at the bottom of the list. pnwmom Nov 2019 #2
It really says something doesn't it. SaschaHM Nov 2019 #6
It sure is. pnwmom Nov 2019 #8
Full disclosure: I have an BA in Computer Science from Yale. SaschaHM Nov 2019 #12
You probably also know that Harvard was giving almost all its graduates a degree with honors, pnwmom Nov 2019 #14
You are completely correct. Sloumeau Nov 2019 #24
Judging how smart someone is based on how they talk isn't accurate JonLP24 Nov 2019 #28
I agree that trying to figure out how smart someone is based solely on how they speak is not Sloumeau Nov 2019 #32
Yeah I don't know about all that, people listen to all BootinUp Nov 2019 #15
Right. But maybe they're perceiving their appearance as much as what they say. nt pnwmom Nov 2019 #20
What a bullshit question. Get real. WheelWalker Nov 2019 #11
+1 Celerity Nov 2019 #31
Mayor Pete, hands down. SergeStorms Nov 2019 #18
Booker is a Rhodes scholar with honors. Booker also graduated from Stanford pnwmom Nov 2019 #22
Buttigieg graduated with an Oxford First in his PPE programme Celerity Nov 2019 #25
They didn't give a statistic for how many graduated magna, but with 90% graduating cum laude pnwmom Nov 2019 #42
I was not comparing him to Booker or anyone else, and he was one of only 6 Harvard students to earn Celerity Nov 2019 #47
The ARTICLE in the OP is all about comparing the Presidential candidates, and has Buttigieg pnwmom Nov 2019 #49
the 'article' is a tweet of a dodgy poll question that is a priori going to yield biased Celerity Nov 2019 #50
If they all met the standards treestar Nov 2019 #60
Amy Klobuchar went to Yale madaboutharry Nov 2019 #23
Completely meaningless, many people just say their candidates Celerity Nov 2019 #27
Asking a group of overwhelmingly white people... TidalWave46 Nov 2019 #33
This! is the most ridiculous discussion I have seen in quite a while. vsrazdem Nov 2019 #34
Yep. They're all far more intelligent than MF45. nt babylonsister Nov 2019 #35
That's kind of a stupid question PJMcK Nov 2019 #37
You might as well ask 20 people at your Thanksgiving meal, Croney Nov 2019 #38
Where you went to school is no indicator that you're "smarter" than anyone else. oldsoftie Nov 2019 #40
And one of the dumbest people we know was smart enough to become President of the U.S. n/t pnwmom Nov 2019 #43
I left out the most obvious example! oldsoftie Nov 2019 #46
+1000. "I know a few people who NEVER went to college who are far smarter... Kind of Blue Nov 2019 #45
A silly poll for entertainment only... TreasonousBastard Nov 2019 #41
ALL our candidates obviously have high IQs. But being smart isn't the only important highplainsdem Nov 2019 #48
Now, there is a useless poll. MineralMan Nov 2019 #52
"Which candidate do you think is most intelligent?" myohmy2 Nov 2019 #56
They are Einsteins treestar Nov 2019 #58
 

maximusveritas

(2,915 posts)
1. Says more about the poll respondents than the candidates
Thu Nov 28, 2019, 12:38 AM
Nov 2019

but an interesting question nonetheless.
Estimating intelligence is quite subjective. Based on their academic success, then Buttigieg and Yang are likely the most intelligent.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

pnwmom

(108,925 posts)
3. Why is Buttigieg more academically successful than the African American, Cory Booker?
Thu Nov 28, 2019, 12:54 AM
Nov 2019

Why is Andrew Yang?

Buttigieg went to Harvard and got a Rhodes Scholarship to Oxford. Booker went to Stanford and got a Rhodes Scholarship to Oxford. Booker also has a law degree from Yale, but Mayor Pete only has a BA.

Andrew Yang got his BA from Brown and his law degree from Columbia.

This whole thing is a crock. All the candidates are very intelligent people with great academic success.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

maximusveritas

(2,915 posts)
4. Booker himself admits he only got into Stanford because of his football abilities
Thu Nov 28, 2019, 01:24 AM
Nov 2019

He did not even graduate cum laude, whereas Buttigieg graduated Magna Cum Laude.
Buttigieg was valedictorian of his HS. He got into Harvard on his academics/intelligence alone.
To pretend Booker is the same as Buttigieg or Yang is, well, something other than intelligent.
And to insinuate that I or anyone is being racist against him is insulting to say the least.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

SaschaHM

(2,897 posts)
5. What?
Thu Nov 28, 2019, 01:35 AM
Nov 2019

You're saying Booker isn't as smart as Yang or Buttigieg because of how he got into college when he was 18 while discounting the additional higher education that Booker has. What nonsense is this.

Booker has 2 masters from Oxford and Stanford and a JD from Yale Law. Buttigieg has a BA. They're not comparable.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

maximusveritas

(2,915 posts)
9. So number of degrees equates to intelligence in your mind?
Thu Nov 28, 2019, 01:43 AM
Nov 2019

What is your evidence for such a correlation?
Baffling to me that anyone would even think that could be true.
Again proving that these questions say more about the respondents

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Blue_true

(31,261 posts)
53. Booker has much higher degrees than Buttigieg and a lot more of them.
Thu Nov 28, 2019, 08:54 PM
Nov 2019

To equate a high school valedictorian and getting into Harvard to a Master's from Oxford and a Yale Juris degree is obsurd in the least.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

dawg day

(7,947 posts)
51. I think they're all pretty smart...
Thu Nov 28, 2019, 01:32 PM
Nov 2019

But Booker succeeding at academics at a top school even if not at the top.... while playing division 1 football? That's actually far more impressive than even greater academic success. For one thing, football at that level is almost a full time job in the fall semester.

And athletic ability is a form of intelligence just like reasoning ability, which he also has.
Being a division 1 athlete should not count against a person! And I'm sure mayor Pete whose dad taught at Notre Dame (football heaven) would agree.

Many poor students get into college with athletic scholarships. We should be impressed by that, because it is impressive.
And we are fortunate to be in the party where every candidate's IQ is double the GOP candidate's.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

pnwmom

(108,925 posts)
7. Booker was being modest. He didn't get into Yale law school because of his football.
Thu Nov 28, 2019, 01:40 AM
Nov 2019

Do you think the law school offers a football scholarship? And Booker got an honors degree from Oxford. Did Buttigieg? Not according to Wikipedia.

Which law school did Buttigieg attend again? I can't find it anywhere.

And I also don't know why you think Yang accomplished more than Booker, with Yang's degrees from Brown and Columbia.

Except Buttigieg is white and Yang is Asian, so there's that.

Which is why I said in the first place: this whole discussion is a CROCK. They're all highly accomplished and highly intelligent.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

pnwmom

(108,925 posts)
10. You are comparing apples and oranges. Harvard is well known for passing out
Thu Nov 28, 2019, 01:50 AM
Nov 2019

Last edited Thu Nov 28, 2019, 02:53 AM - Edit history (3)

honors degrees like popcorn. In 2004 when Mayor Pete graduated, 90% of its students graduated with some level of honors.

In sharp contrast, Stanford doesn't give honors for GPA's, but it does note a degree with "Distinction" based on the GPA -- only for the top 15% of the class.

But there is one school they had in common: Booker was awarded a degree with honors from Oxford, but Buttigieg wasn't (according to Wikipedia.)

And Yang's degrees were from Brown and Columbia. (Wikipedia doesn't mention honors.) How you can pretend Yang's and Buttigieg's academic records were any stronger than Booker's is beyond me.

https://www.sfgate.com/news/article/:~:targetText=Last%20June,%20a%20record%2091,a%20Globe%20study%20has%20found.

HARVARD:

https://www.thecrimson.com/article/2019/4/30/rising-GPA-cutoffs-honors/

A 2002 Faculty vote set 60 percent as the maximum portion of each class that can earn honors. That policy change aimed to make Latin honors more exclusive — more than 90 percent of the Class of 2004 graduated with honors.


Last June, a record 91 percent of Harvard students graduated summa, magna, or cum laude, far more than at Yale (51 percent), Princeton (44 percent) and other elite universities, a Globe study has found.

While the world regards these students as the best of the best of America's 13 million undergraduates, Harvard honors has actually become the laughingstock of the Ivy League. The other Ivies see Harvard as the Lake Wobegon of higher education, where all the students, being above average, can take honors for granted.

It takes just a B-minus average in the major subject to earn cum laude -- no sweat at a school where 51 percent of the grades last year were A's and A- minuses.

Yet Pedersen also admits that grade inflation is real. As at many schools, at Harvard, the A to F grading range has unofficially turned to an A to B- minus range. As a result, the university's current honors requirements make Harvard unique: It inevitably rewards grade inflation with honors.



STANFORD:
https://exploredegrees.stanford.edu/undergraduatedegreesandprograms/#honorstext

Distinction is awarded to 15% of the graduating class based on cumulative grade point averages.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Blue_true

(31,261 posts)
54. I have a nephew that is a good athlete in high school and an excellent student.
Thu Nov 28, 2019, 09:09 PM
Nov 2019

Believe me, if Stanford comes calling my advice to him would be to take a scholarship offer from that school immediately. The fact that Stanford would even look at him would be an indication that they had assessed his ability to perform academically in college. Plus, going to Stanford as a jock will give him face time with some of the most influential people in the country and allow him to build important career connections.

I was thinking about kids and sports earlier today in relation to my nephew. Millions of kids played football this year, many hundreds of thousands at the high school level. In the NFL this year, there is something like 1700 men on active rosters of teams. A high schooler has something like a 0.05% percent chance of reaching the NFL, that is why I believe ALL parents with top athletes should focus heavily on academics, that is the thing that will give a child the best chance for a good life later on in life.

Your points of Booker are right on, thanks for presenting them.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

pnwmom

(108,925 posts)
57. Booker managed to do well enough academically, despite his heavy football schedule,
Fri Nov 29, 2019, 12:03 AM
Nov 2019

to get into Yale law school -- which does NOT give football scholarships. The people who are dismissing him because of his Stanford football scholarship are ignoring how much he achieved.

GOOD LUCK to your nephew!

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

BootinUp

(46,924 posts)
13. Good reply, a wee bit defensive, lol. I've decided
Thu Nov 28, 2019, 02:06 AM
Nov 2019

That I’m going to do a lot less advocating than I have in the past. For one thing I don’t find it much fun this time. I’m afraid I’ll try and wring someone’s virtual neck and be put in virtual death row. Besides a mans gotta know his limitations. I’m sure a bunch of real life cheers just went up, lol.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

pnwmom

(108,925 posts)
16. Why is that a good reply? Are you aware that Harvard gives honors to about 90% of its graduates,
Thu Nov 28, 2019, 02:13 AM
Nov 2019

and Stanford only the top 15%? So how does Buttigieg's magna make him smarter, when he wasn't having to juggle a football schedule on top of an academic schedule?

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

BootinUp

(46,924 posts)
17. Because it's the posters opinion, and because
Thu Nov 28, 2019, 02:20 AM
Nov 2019

Buttigieg is perceived to be highly intelligent. I support the posters right to state said opinion and encourage everyone to do the same. My own opinion is that while we have a bunch of highly intelligent candidates to choose from, Pete does stand out to me as well.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

pnwmom

(108,925 posts)
19. I don't think it's a coincidence that the three at the bottom of the list
Thu Nov 28, 2019, 02:30 AM
Nov 2019

(other than Bloomberg, who hasn't participated in a debate) include an African American, a Hispanic, and a woman.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

BootinUp

(46,924 posts)
21. One factor seems to be familiarity or popularity
Thu Nov 28, 2019, 02:37 AM
Nov 2019

I agree the rankings aren’t accurate. As far as bias that can’t be eliminated with humans. Racial bias and gender bias sucks.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Celerity

(42,643 posts)
29. Bollocks, Buttigieg graduated magna cum laude, it is a flat
Thu Nov 28, 2019, 06:30 AM
Nov 2019

out falsehood to say 90% of Harvard graduates get that, and he started there almost 20 years ago.

I have no idea why you are going up and down the thread and spreading this divisive disinfo that jnvites conflict. It is not a bloody contest, it is a shit poll question where many people just say that their candidate is the most intelligent. It is meaningless.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

pnwmom

(108,925 posts)
44. I didn't say 90% graduated magna cum laude. But because of grade inflation at Harvard,
Thu Nov 28, 2019, 09:44 AM
Nov 2019

90% graduated cum laude. His magna cum laude was also affected by the rampant grade inflation that caused Harvard faculty to eventually vote to hold the total number of honors grads to 60%.

I agreed that the question was a crock. They're all smart; and nothing in his background proves Buttigieg is the smartest.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

helpisontheway

(5,004 posts)
36. Well, my son was borderline acceptance into
Thu Nov 28, 2019, 07:44 AM
Nov 2019

his dream school. He was recruited as an athlete and the coaches did help him get in. However, he had to work his butt off to stay in there. He graduates in May. Also, I don’t think others that were admitted without help are smarter. Yes, they had higher standardized test scores but big deal. He took the same classes and had the same success.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

JonLP24

(29,322 posts)
26. It is interesting that I've heard Buttigieg is a Rhodes Scholar but I never heard the same about
Thu Nov 28, 2019, 06:20 AM
Nov 2019

Cory Booker until he mentioned it.

Also this outsider from DC campaign is really old & not original.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

Blue_true

(31,261 posts)
55. Booker was a very elite Rhodes Scholar. nt
Thu Nov 28, 2019, 09:19 PM
Nov 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

madaboutharry

(40,149 posts)
30. "but Mayor Pete only has a BA."
Thu Nov 28, 2019, 06:39 AM
Nov 2019

From Pete Buttigieg's Wikipedia page:

"Upon graduating magna cum laude from Harvard in 2004, Buttigieg was elected a member of Phi Beta Kappa and awarded a Rhodes Scholarship; in 2007, he received a Bachelor of Arts degree with first-class honors in philosophy, politics, and economics after studying at Pembroke College, Oxford."

Your comment about Mayor Buttigieg leaves a lot out.

FWIW, I think this poll is not intelligent.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

treestar

(82,383 posts)
59. Who would learn a language
Fri Nov 29, 2019, 05:14 PM
Nov 2019

Just to read a book on that language? You have to be a genius even to think about doing that.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

pnwmom

(108,925 posts)
2. I wonder why Booker, Klobuchar, and Castro are at the bottom of the list.
Thu Nov 28, 2019, 12:52 AM
Nov 2019

Booker only graduated from Stanford, with a BA and a Masters, before going to Oxford on a Rhodes scholarship and then to Yale University for his law degree.

Castro also graduated from Stanford, and got a law degree from Harvard.

Amy Klobuchar got her BA from Yale, and her law degree from U of Chicago.

And yet Buttigieg is SO much smarter, because HE got a Rhodes scholarship, and a law degree from . . . nowhere. Oh, wait.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

SaschaHM

(2,897 posts)
6. It really says something doesn't it.
Thu Nov 28, 2019, 01:38 AM
Nov 2019

Branding is one hell of a drug.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

pnwmom

(108,925 posts)
8. It sure is.
Thu Nov 28, 2019, 01:43 AM
Nov 2019

And I don't think it's an accident that the two who were lauded were white and Asian men.

I would have mentioned Kamala, too, but I knew her Howard and UCSF degrees would have been discounted by the Ivy league enthralled.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

SaschaHM

(2,897 posts)
12. Full disclosure: I have an BA in Computer Science from Yale.
Thu Nov 28, 2019, 02:04 AM
Nov 2019

Was it difficult? Yes.

Was it even remotely comparable to a law program at a good school? Hell no.

Ivy League undergrad is undergrad with a few more bells and whistles, big money, and shady/prestigious pasts. Some programs of study are harder than others. The liberal arts are tedious. You might have to write a 40 page paper, but the thought required in it is still less than what a graduate school would expect of you.

There's a level of enthrallment in the Ivy League by people that didn't go that's always been odd having lived through the experience. Hell, I personally know multiple Rhode's Scholars. Would I ever say that they were smarter than someone who went through Yale Law or any other reputable graduate program? No. They were smart undergrads. There's a big difference.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

pnwmom

(108,925 posts)
14. You probably also know that Harvard was giving almost all its graduates a degree with honors,
Thu Nov 28, 2019, 02:09 AM
Nov 2019

Last edited Thu Nov 28, 2019, 02:46 AM - Edit history (1)

They thought all their students deserve them. In 2004, Mayor Pete's graduation year, it was 90%.

Now Harvard's trying to keep the total down to 60%. Meanwhile, only 15% of Stanford students graduate with "distinction," based on their GPA's.

https://www.thecrimson.com/article/2019/4/30/rising-GPA-cutoffs-honors/

A 2002 Faculty vote set 60 percent as the maximum portion of each class that can earn honors. That policy change aimed to make Latin honors more exclusive — more than 90 percent of the Class of 2004 graduated with honors.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Sloumeau

(2,657 posts)
24. You are completely correct.
Thu Nov 28, 2019, 05:42 AM
Nov 2019

In many colleges and universities, getting an advanced degree, such as a law degree or a medical degree, it is roughly twice as hard as getting an undergraduate degree, even an undergraduate degree from an Ivy League School. However, even getting an advanced degree from an Ivy League school does not necessarily mean that one is very intelligent. Please keep in mind that George W. Bush went to Harvard Business school, and he's not the sharpest knife in the drawer. Overall, I've found that one of the best ways of telling how smart someone is, besides knowing the education levels and what jobs they have held, is listening to them talk. From this, my best guess is that Warren, Buttigieg, Yang, Booker, and Harris are all extremely intelligent--probably in the 120+ IQ range, and most of the rest are probably in the above-average category of about 110+.

However, intelligence is no substitute for good judgment, and it does not necessarily make one more electable or even a better politician. When it comes to picking a President in particular, often what matters more than intelligence is the person's belief system. If Hitler were more intelligent, but still wanted to violently take over the world and exterminate the Jews, would his extra intelligence have made him a better leader of Germany or just a bigger threat to the world? I'm guessing the answer would be the latter.

All of our, say, top 8 candidates are smart enough to be President. The question is, how well are they positioned to defeat Donald Trump? If they cannot beat him, does it really matter how smart they are?

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

JonLP24

(29,322 posts)
28. Judging how smart someone is based on how they talk isn't accurate
Thu Nov 28, 2019, 06:25 AM
Nov 2019

There could be a lot going on in someone's head that doesn't come out when they speak plus there are social anxieties and all sorts of things that affect smart people just the same as they affect regular people. Also someone could be a charming sociopath so you could end up being fooled by a smooth talker.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

Sloumeau

(2,657 posts)
32. I agree that trying to figure out how smart someone is based solely on how they speak is not
Thu Nov 28, 2019, 06:43 AM
Nov 2019

...100% accurate, which is why I also recommend people do a number of things to help gauge intelligence. This includes, in addition to listening to someone speak, review their education levels, read things they have written, review their work histories, and read what people who have associated with them have to say. However, as I wrote earlier, intelligence alone will not necessarily make someone a better President. I believe that our top 8 candidates are all smart enough to be President, so for me, it is more about things like electability. Bernie Sanders, for example, might actually be smarter than all of the other top candidates, but if I don't think he can beat Trump, for me, it really does not matter how smart he is.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

BootinUp

(46,924 posts)
15. Yeah I don't know about all that, people listen to all
Thu Nov 28, 2019, 02:09 AM
Nov 2019

The candidates and rate them based on perception mostly. That’s how us martians do it.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

pnwmom

(108,925 posts)
20. Right. But maybe they're perceiving their appearance as much as what they say. nt
Thu Nov 28, 2019, 02:35 AM
Nov 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

WheelWalker

(8,943 posts)
11. What a bullshit question. Get real.
Thu Nov 28, 2019, 02:03 AM
Nov 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

SergeStorms

(18,882 posts)
18. Mayor Pete, hands down.
Thu Nov 28, 2019, 02:22 AM
Nov 2019

They're all very intelligent, but Mayor Pete is on an entirely different level. Rhodes Scholar, and he has pretty much a photographic memory. Any one of them has every republican in the country beat by a country mile though.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

pnwmom

(108,925 posts)
22. Booker is a Rhodes scholar with honors. Booker also graduated from Stanford
Thu Nov 28, 2019, 02:38 AM
Nov 2019

and got a couple masters degrees and a law degree from Yale University. Buttigieg has no law degree. And do you know how many Harvard students graduate with honors, like Mayor Pete? In 2001 it was 91%.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Celerity

(42,643 posts)
25. Buttigieg graduated with an Oxford First in his PPE programme
Thu Nov 28, 2019, 06:15 AM
Nov 2019

which is the very definition of an honour degree.

Also it is simply false to claim 91% of Harvard students graduate magna cum laude (what Buttigieg did) which is exactly what you attempted to infer.

https://handbook.fas.harvard.edu/book/requirements-honors-degrees

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

pnwmom

(108,925 posts)
42. They didn't give a statistic for how many graduated magna, but with 90% graduating cum laude
Thu Nov 28, 2019, 09:35 AM
Nov 2019

in his year (2004), it's clear many of them graduated magna. (You posted a page from the CURRENT handbook. In Buttigieg's era, grade inflation was rampant, and the number of honors degrees reflected that. Later the faculty agreed to hold the total number of honors degrees to 60%.)

Also, there's nothing in his academic background that ranks him above Cory Booker, a Stanford grad and Rhodes scholar with honors (Wikipedia doesn't say Buttigieg got his degree with honors); or Amy Klobuchar, also a high school valedictorian, who followed that up with a magna cum laude degree from Yale and a law degree from U Chicago, where she was associate editor of the law review.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Celerity

(42,643 posts)
47. I was not comparing him to Booker or anyone else, and he was one of only 6 Harvard students to earn
Thu Nov 28, 2019, 10:57 AM
Nov 2019

a Rhodes scholarship in December 2004.

https://news.harvard.edu/gazette/story/2004/12/rhodes-scholars-announced-2/

He was also chosen for Phi Beta Kappa as a Junior and a Senior, and at Harvard (now and back then) only 24 juniors are chosen from the entire school. Part of that is having a very very high GPA (typically the cut-off is 3.8 and up.) He was also the president of the Student Advisory Committee of the Harvard Institute of Politics.


He earned an 'First' for his PPE programme at Pembroke College at Oxford, that is the highest Honours degree in the system at Oxford and other British Universities (I know because I graduated with a First myself, just not at Oxford.)

https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2019/05/13/deep-cuts-from-pete-buttigiegs-rhodie-resume#

When it came time to conclude his studies, Buttigieg chose what Farris calls his “North Sea-cargo-ship exam preparation.” Wilkinson said, “It’s one of those mythic Oxford tales that’s actually true. Pete boarded a cargo ship—shipping goods across the ocean—to isolate himself before the multiple days of tests. I just remember thinking, like, What? Who does that?” Soon after, Buttigieg earned a “first,” the highest grade. Then it was on to a job at McKinsey.



List of University of Oxford people with PPE degrees

https://www.revolvy.com/page/List-of-University-of-Oxford-people-with-PPE-degrees?cr=1

Non-UK politicians

Tony Abbott, 28th and former Prime Minister of Australia
Liaqat Ali Khan, first Prime Minister of Pakistan
Solomon Dias Bandaranaike, former Prime Minister of Ceylon
Benazir Bhutto, former Prime Minister of Pakistan
Zulfiqar Ali Bhutto, former Prime Minister of Pakistan
David Boren, former Oklahoma Governor and US Senator
Kofi Abrefa Busia, former President of Ghana
Pete Buttigieg, mayor of South Bend, Indiana
Gareth Evans (politician), former Foreign Minister of Australia
Malcolm Fraser, former Prime Minister of Australia
Bob Hawke, former Prime Minister of Australia
Imran Khan, Pakistani cricketer and politician, 22nd (since 2018) Prime Minister of Pakistan
Pedro Pablo Kuczynski, former Prime Minister of Peru and former President
John Kufuor, former President of Ghana
Farooq Leghari, former President of Pakistan
Kukrit Pramoj, former Prime Minister of Thailand
Aung San Suu Kyi, first State Counsellor of Myanmar, 1991 Nobel Peace Prize Laureate
Abhisit Vejjajiva, former Prime Minister of Thailand


Pembroke College at Oxford traditionally only takes in 7 students each year for its PPE programme, Buttigieg was one of the 7


https://www.pmb.ox.ac.uk/students/admissions/courses/philosophy-politics-economics-ppe

Pembroke aims to admit seven students each year for the PPE course, and regularly takes international students, including Rhodes Scholars. Our undergraduates come from a wide variety of backgrounds, and no prior detailed knowledge of Philosophy, Politics or Economics is required. Although a background in Maths is not formally required for admission, PPE applicants should have sufficient interest in, and aptitude for, Maths to cope with the mathematical elements of the course in economics, logic and data analysis.

PPE demands the ability to take stock of large amounts of evidence, arguments and scholarly material and apply intelligent analysis to it. It is very much a course for those who like wrestling with different theories, problems, and conflicts while developing their own views.

At Pembroke efforts are made to emphasise the value of interdisciplinary cooperation at all levels of study. For PPE students this may take the form of involvement in the Social Science Society, which meets termly to stimulate debate from the variety of perspectives represented by students and academics alike.

The College tutors teach the compulsory papers and a wide range if special subjects throughout the three year course. At Pembroke the tutorial team is led by Fellows Professor Stephen Whitefield, Dr Brian A'Hearn and Professor Guy Kahane. They are supported by a long-standing and very experienced team of lecturers and tutors to ensure excellent teaching and support for all undergraduates.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

pnwmom

(108,925 posts)
49. The ARTICLE in the OP is all about comparing the Presidential candidates, and has Buttigieg
Thu Nov 28, 2019, 01:08 PM
Nov 2019

at the top with Warren. Yes, he's very highly accomplished, but so are a bunch of other candidates -- and this is all about comparing Harvard's apple to other university's oranges.

I think the whole poll is a crock, and I said so. They're all smart, but look who we have as President now. Someone whose only genius is at thievery and manipulating people.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Celerity

(42,643 posts)
50. the 'article' is a tweet of a dodgy poll question that is a priori going to yield biased
Thu Nov 28, 2019, 01:23 PM
Nov 2019

results based off people's presence of candidate, so we agree on that. Rump is arguably the least intelligent major US poltician ever, so we also agree on that.

I was only showing that Buttigieg has seriously heavyweight academic bona fides and he also has a presence that leads many to notice his innate intelligence. He is not some propped up plazzy paper tiger. Nothing more, nothing less.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

treestar

(82,383 posts)
60. If they all met the standards
Fri Nov 29, 2019, 05:20 PM
Nov 2019

It would not be surprising at Harvard

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

madaboutharry

(40,149 posts)
23. Amy Klobuchar went to Yale
Thu Nov 28, 2019, 05:32 AM
Nov 2019

and has a law degree from The University of Chicago.

Julian Castro went to Stanford and has a law degree from Harvard.

They’re at the bottom of the list.

This poll is an example of how useless a poll can be when those questioned are uninformed.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Celerity

(42,643 posts)
27. Completely meaningless, many people just say their candidates
Thu Nov 28, 2019, 06:23 AM
Nov 2019

of choice is the most intelligent. These questions are meant to divide IMHO, just look at the sniping going on. Any and all our candidates are streets ahead of the orange piece of shite now infesting the POTUS.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

TidalWave46

(2,061 posts)
33. Asking a group of overwhelmingly white people...
Thu Nov 28, 2019, 07:20 AM
Nov 2019

Who the smartest is. Yeah, that’s the way to go.

Each of the people listed seem really really bright to me. I think Buttigieg is in a field of his own but that doesn’t really translate into anything else.

So the poll clarified two things for me. For the most part, we tend to think our candidate is the smartest. Second, white people are going to perceive that white people in a group as being of higher intelligence.

Neither a shocker.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

vsrazdem

(2,176 posts)
34. This! is the most ridiculous discussion I have seen in quite a while.
Thu Nov 28, 2019, 07:23 AM
Nov 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

babylonsister

(170,962 posts)
35. Yep. They're all far more intelligent than MF45. nt
Thu Nov 28, 2019, 07:40 AM
Nov 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

PJMcK

(21,916 posts)
37. That's kind of a stupid question
Thu Nov 28, 2019, 07:59 AM
Nov 2019

First of all, it assumes that the respondents are intelligent. Since 60+ million Americans voted for Trump, I have to question their own intelligence. Therefore, their judgment about any of our Democratic candidates is suspect.

Secondly, and more importantly, how can people make such a judgment about candidates that they've only seen on TV or read about in the news?

Dumb question but it illustrates the depths our society has sunk to.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Croney

(4,646 posts)
38. You might as well ask 20 people at your Thanksgiving meal,
Thu Nov 28, 2019, 08:06 AM
Nov 2019

"Which one of us is the most intelligent?"

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

oldsoftie

(12,410 posts)
40. Where you went to school is no indicator that you're "smarter" than anyone else.
Thu Nov 28, 2019, 08:54 AM
Nov 2019

I know a few people who NEVER went to college who are far smarter than a few of my multi-degreed friends.
And many of the wealthiest people I know never went to college at all. None were raised wealthy either.
A lot of it is simply paying attention to the world and educating yourself. My good friend built a 75 million dollar commercial construction business with 4 years in the army & 4 as a roofer.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

pnwmom

(108,925 posts)
43. And one of the dumbest people we know was smart enough to become President of the U.S. n/t
Thu Nov 28, 2019, 09:39 AM
Nov 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

oldsoftie

(12,410 posts)
46. I left out the most obvious example!
Thu Nov 28, 2019, 10:42 AM
Nov 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Kind of Blue

(8,709 posts)
45. +1000. "I know a few people who NEVER went to college who are far smarter...
Thu Nov 28, 2019, 10:17 AM
Nov 2019
than a few of my multi-degreed friends. And many of the wealthiest people I know never went to college at all. None were raised wealthy either. A lot of it is simply paying attention to the world and educating yourself."

Thank you.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

TreasonousBastard

(43,049 posts)
41. A silly poll for entertainment only...
Thu Nov 28, 2019, 09:13 AM
Nov 2019

Nowhere is "intelligence" defined, and nowhere is it mentioned that this intelligence, whatever it is, is any more useful than any other attribute.

But, no one asked it before so I suppose it's a good as any other question to to start a silly, but fun, conversation.

FWIW, I have been a member of Mensa for years and got into City College of NY purely on the basis of my SAT's, since I was a "C" student in high school. I had discovered early on that I didn't need to study to get through, thanks largely to an excellent memory and ability to work my way through test questions without knowing much. It wasn't until I was in 6th grade that anyone knew I was so nearsighted that I couldn't see the blackboard, but could remember anything that was said about those weird marks on it. Those study habits followed me through life, and I could get almost any job by bullshitting my way through the interview, but often could not do the job.

So, in my case at least, being in the rarefied top one percentile didn't make up for sloppy and lazy work habits or some terrible personal decision making. I also found out that America Mensa is full of people a lot like me. I did, however, get laid a lot. Intelligent women, it seems, often prefer intelligent men who are not afraid of their smarts.

So, I have little interest in native intelligence (whatever that is) but how well people use what they have. All of our candidates seem to have put what brains they have to good use.

(All but one, anyway...)

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

highplainsdem

(48,721 posts)
48. ALL our candidates obviously have high IQs. But being smart isn't the only important
Thu Nov 28, 2019, 01:01 PM
Nov 2019

quality in a president.

So arguing about who's the most intelligent is silly. Especially if you're going by grades, scholarships, and which schools they attended years ago, versus their actual record of achievements after they left school.

I can recall hearing about a study suggesting a high IQ actually works against the ability to lead, once you get above an IQ of 130, since people with really high IQs sometimes find it hard to relate to and communicate with people whose IQs aren't equally high.

IMO what's often called emotional intelligence is probably at least as important as IQ, in terms of qualifications for president.

And that's especially true now that we have to defeat -- and then heal the divisions and deal with the crises created by -- a malignant narcissist.

And btw, I have nothing against scholarships awarded on the basis of test scores and grades. I've benefited from them. I just don't confuse a high IQ, good grades and scholarships with the ability to be a good leader. I especially don't confuse them to the extent of thinking it's necessary or even at all important to compare candidates' IQs.

Any leader who's at all smart, even if not possessing a genius level IQ, will surround himself or herself with very bright people who have very bright ideas, even if they might not possess any leadership ability.

That's what advisers are for.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

MineralMan

(146,190 posts)
52. Now, there is a useless poll.
Thu Nov 28, 2019, 01:50 PM
Nov 2019

Asking people questions like that is a total waste of time. The only question that makes sense is "Who are you planning to vote for?"

Asking why people are planning to vote for a specific person can also be useful, but asking people to tell you which candidates are the most intelligent is a really stupid thing to do.

Just useless.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

myohmy2

(3,118 posts)
56. "Which candidate do you think is most intelligent?"
Thu Nov 28, 2019, 09:54 PM
Nov 2019

...It's, B-B-BERNIE...





...without a doubt...
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

treestar

(82,383 posts)
58. They are Einsteins
Fri Nov 29, 2019, 05:13 PM
Nov 2019

All of them compared to you know who.

Pete might have the highest IQ.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
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