Democratic Primaries
Related: About this forumTo everyone whining about Iowa and how we do things.. if you have an open primary
you might want to look in the mirror before you spend so much time telling us how bad we are.!! The republicans are already getting ready to muddle into the open primaries and try and mess with who we choose.. at least at our caucus you HAVE to be a registered Democrat.
This circus is headed your ways.. our time and input is will be over tonight.
I personally would not mind a closed primary and a caucus to organize.
But we do the best we can.. our markets are cheap and people who would not have a chance in hell have a chance in Iowa to get their story and point of view out.
These candidates literally become like family to us, and we really develop a great affection for all of them, and the people who work on the campaigns.
They stay in our homes, we furnish the campaign offices with what ever we can to help the various candidates out. they then hopefully donate said same and pass it on.
So it is all yours after tonight.. we have no say in who will be the eventual candidate. We are the proving ground and have to accept the final results.. The Super Tuesday voters will more than likely select who our next candidate will be, not Iowa, or NH or NV..
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
AtheistCrusader
(33,982 posts)I realize it requires the DNC to change that, and the party isn't interested in doing so this year, and that's fine.
It's going to remain a priority for myself, and others, for primary reform. I don't think we're anywhere near solved on all the problems that plagued the '16 primary.
(Republicans will not be able to tamper with the outcome of our open primary. (WA))
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
rsdsharp
(9,042 posts)No, it would require a change in Iowa law. Iowa has a state law that requires it to be first in the nation by a minimum of 8 days. Iowa Code § 43.4. New Hampshire also has a state law that requires it to be the first primary.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
wyldwolf
(43,865 posts)the DNC is a 527 Organization, governed under federal law. No state law supersedes it. Iowa is first because the DNC wishes it to be.
ANY state could pass a law requiring them to be first.
Iowa's 'first in the nation' status wasn't established by the DNC until '72 and could be reassigned to any other state. Iowa state law couldn't prevent it. Now, Iowa could then move their caucus again to be first, and then another state could move theirs before Iowa, again. But the DNC could punish them for it the same way they punished Florida for trying to go first in 2012.
Once the drumbeat about Iowa gets loud enough, the DNC simply make another state first and punish Iowa if they try to hold their's sooner.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
rsdsharp
(9,042 posts)Section 43.4 applies to both Republican and Democratic caucuses. The DNC may try to "punish" Iowa, but until and unless state law is changed, Iowa will go first.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
AtheistCrusader
(33,982 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
rsdsharp
(9,042 posts)If another state tries to move it's primary or caucus, Iowa would move theirs. It's happened before. Our law says 8 days before anyone else, and prior to February 4. The DNC (or RNC) might decide to impose sanctions (although I'm not sure on which state), but that isn't pursuant to a "law" per se.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
AtheistCrusader
(33,982 posts)It doesn't have to be out of the blue, Iowa can only move so fast, when things are planned out.
Would the DNC execs be criminally liable under this state law, do you think?
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
rsdsharp
(9,042 posts)Other states have tried to jump the line, and Iowa has moved up the caucus. The logistics are a problem for any state, and frankly, Iowa and New Hampshire have an advantage based on experience.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
wyldwolf
(43,865 posts)If a federal 527 ran afoul of a state law but not a federal law, that state's only recourse would be to pull that organization's ability to operate in that state.
If the DNC suddenly decided Georgia should go first, Iowa could move their's to be first again. The DNC could then strip Iowa of it's delegates, making the Iowa caucus meaningless. Oh, they might still get to hold their caucus first, but no candidates would compete.
Here, case in point. Florida, again. In May 2007, the Florida Legislature passed a bill that moved the date of the state's primary to January 29, 2008. There - it was now Florida state law that their Democratic primary be held on January 29. Michigan did the same. Moved their's to Jan. 15.
The DNC's Rules and Bylaws Committee decided to strip the states of all of its delegates to the party's 2008 presidential convention as punishment.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
brooklynite
(93,878 posts)The National Committee is made up of delegated representatives from the State Committee. Those are the people you have to convince.
FWIW - we'll be here have the same arguments in 2024.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
wyldwolf
(43,865 posts)If the delegated representatives from the State Committees except Iowa's all decided to move the first deciding contest to Alaska, Iowa state law would have no bearing on the decision.
And if Iowa moved theirs before Alaska's, the DNC could nueter Iowa by stripping it of it's delegates.
The real argument here is is the DNC compelled by Iowa state law for Iowa to be first. It isn't.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Pacifist Patriot
(24,647 posts)because I did not know that (thanks for the education!), what would happen if other states passed laws that they had to be first? Actually, come to think of it, I'm surprised no other state has done that, especially Florida. Our state legislature is comprised of folks who would be contrary enough to try it. LOL!
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
brooklynite
(93,878 posts)Some States (FL included I believe) attempted to horn in on New Hampshire (Iowa is a matter of State Party choice). The New Hampshire Government was prepared to move their Primary into December 2007 to maintain their first in the nation status.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
wyldwolf
(43,865 posts)It would have been well within the DNC's power to strip New Hamphshire (and Iowa) of their delegates for making that move just as they punished FL and MI for moving theirs
The DNC is not mandated by any state law to hold a primary or caucus first in any state other than the ones they wish them to be in.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
brooklynite
(93,878 posts)The DNC Members from other States could demand that they change the sequence; they never have.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
wyldwolf
(43,865 posts)is the DNC compelled by Iowa state law for Iowa to be first? It clearly isn't.
All it would take would be enough state committee's protesting the unrepresentative nature of Iowa to seal Iowa's 'first in the nation' doom.
Some states have already begun this.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
brooklynite
(93,878 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
wyldwolf
(43,865 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
brooklynite
(93,878 posts)However, the Iowa Democratic Party is very protective of its status and will secure commitments from candidates to protect it.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
wyldwolf
(43,865 posts)Iowa Code § 43.4
1. Delegates to county conventions of political parties and party committee members
shall be elected at precinct caucuses held not later than the fourth Monday in February of
each even-numbered year. The date shall be at least eight days earlier than the scheduled
date for any meeting, caucus, or primary which constitutes the first determining stage of the
presidential nominating process in any other state, territory, or any other group which has
the authority to select delegates in the presidential nomination.
The DNC isn't bound to it.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
AtheistCrusader
(33,982 posts)First section.
https://www.legis.iowa.gov/docs/iacode/2003/43/4.html
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
MichMan
(11,790 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
rsdsharp
(9,042 posts)For Iowa and New Hampshire, being first means money. Millions pour into both states for radio, TV, newspaper and billboard ad buys, hotels, meals, rental cars, campaign headquarters rental, staff salaries, and God knows what else.
Every four years there is a hue and cry over how unrepresentative Iowa and Hew Hampshire are, and that's true. But the people here take their responsibility very seriously. Presidential politics here is retail. Candidates meet a lot of actual people, at diners, and bars, and in backyards and living rooms, as well as at speeches and meet-and-greets, and they get asked tough questions. If California or New York or Texas were first, the dynamic would likely be much different.
So there are incentives worth fighting for, but frankly, there are negatives, too. By this time everyone in the state is sick to death of the process -- and the political commercials. Last night, after the Super Bowl, I switched over to the local news and every commercial availability -- EVERY SINGLE ONE was a political commercial. Thank God Bloomberg isn't running ads here, and that the Republican nomination isn't up for grabs. If it were, all of the avails would have been filled going back to Thanksgiving.
Tomorrow, we'll be back to herbicide and seed corn commercials, and damn glad of it. But in about 2 1/2 years (maybe less) the process will start again. Unless Florida tries to cut the line!
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
LeftInTX
(24,560 posts)Don't have them here in San Antonio.
We have generic big box products products like Miracle Gro, Scotts Turf Builder and we used to have Round Up commercials, but even down here, they don't pop up until March.
I assume the Iowa herbicide commercials are not big box herbicides and require a pesticide applicators license to purchase!
Funny..how geography changes things!
I assume the Big Ag commercials are kinda like the Pharma commercials!!
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
rsdsharp
(9,042 posts)Most farmers use anhydrous ammonia as fertilizer. It comes in liquid form in large silver or white tanks that look like a tank used to store propane for household heating, except they are on wheels and are towed to the farms. A fairly small farm here is 160 acres. Many run 500-600 acres or more, and it takes a lot of product to fertilize that much ground.
There are herbicides like Round Up, and insecticides to kill corn borers and other creepy crawlies that hurt crop yield. Farmers buy it in granular form or in liquid concentrate and mix it with water for application. this isn't your gallon bottle of Round Up.
And of course there are the seed commercials for corn and soybeans. There's a fair amount of alfalfa grown, too.
I wouldn't compare them to Pharma commercials, although they are pretty slickly produced. They don't have 10 seconds worth of side effect disclaimers though, although some of the insecticides should.
It's amusing to see the media portray Iowa farming during the caucus season. They love to show 60-70 year old tractors that have been loving restored, and only get run in a parade. Modern tractors cost $100,000 and up. Combines start at about $250,000. If you want to easily see what modern farming equipment looks like watch Girl Meets Farm with Molly Yeh on the Food Network. Her husband and father-in-law farm, although it's sugar beats and wheat, rather than corn and soybeans.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Hortensis
(58,785 posts)voting in the Democratic primary for candidates they think Trump can defeat. Sanders and Buttigieg are both believed to be favorites this time instead of just Sanders.
Frankly, I'm just feeling good that we're finally starting. We've waited for so long, and I never expected it to be calm and easy. The giant battle for power and our future will be the GE, with the various nations and RW-supporting me that are already working to defeat us interfering far more determinedly. It's not a potentially existential election for us alone.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Voltaire2
(12,629 posts)as Republicans back in October. Any evidence of a massive change in party registration in NH?
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Hortensis
(58,785 posts)NH's a swing state with narrow election margins, encouraging attempts at electoral oversets by people lacking in principles but rich in partisan antagonism.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Ace Rothstein
(3,110 posts)More voters voted in the Repbulican primary in 2016 than voted in the Democratic primary in 2016 in New Hampshire by 35k votes.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Hortensis
(58,785 posts)in 2016, his genuine support for him for president (the ones who'd vote for him in the GE), and the rest. They had to do that for every state.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Voltaire2
(12,629 posts)Republicans in NH have unenrolled from the Republican Party in significant numbers? That is the only way that they can vote in the Democratic primary, and they would have had to unenroll back in October.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Hortensis
(58,785 posts)in depth post election studies performed by experts.
And you're wrong about NH, btw, check the state web site for that.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Voltaire2
(12,629 posts)Affiliated voters, those who declared a party when they registered to vote, cannot vote in another partys primary. Undeclared voters can, by enrolling at the poll, and are also allowed to unenroll after voting.
Declared voters cannot change their status after the filing period for the primary registration for candidates ends. That occurred last October.
https://sos.nh.gov/VotePartyPrimFAQ.aspx
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Hortensis
(58,785 posts)registered Republican for a reason, and it's not because he's a blood-red southern conservative. So much of that goes on in NH that it's a serious anti-Democratic Party problem.
Again, it's critical to learn about who and what the candidates we might vote for are. Before voting. Anything else is straight out of How to be a Sucker for Dummies.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Voltaire2
(12,629 posts)How are you going to stop people from disingenuous enrollment? A purity test?
I thought we were discussing the merits of NHs sort-of open primary. Apparently we arent.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
AtheistCrusader
(33,982 posts)'momentum' and all that.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Hortensis
(58,785 posts)the course to some unfortunate degree, though. The chattering classes would be wherever making high drama out of everything. So maybe one primary election day would be best.
Speaking of, California's primary is March 3, with 495 pledged and unpledged delegates. We're from California, and because it used to vote fairly late we normally knew who'd won most national seats, including the presidency of course, before we voted. So a lot of people skipped voting. But what's the effect going to be of moving that up so early?
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
AtheistCrusader
(33,982 posts)A) we're overwhelmingly blue, and B) the chronological order of polls closing, but I suppose I'd be satisfied seeing California getting a first crack at it for once. Or even Oregon.
Honestly, I'm not sure if changing the order is going to materially alter the outcome of the primary, but having one state with its demographics such as they are, go first every time.. seems like a holdover tradition from a different society than we find ourselves in today.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Hortensis
(58,785 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
AtheistCrusader
(33,982 posts)We have enough problems without worrying about phantoms.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
JaneQPublic
(7,113 posts)From the link:
At the point in which Limbaugh announced his gambit, Obama had seemed on the verge of clinching the Democratic nomination.[120] However, Clinton subsequently won the Ohio primary and the Texas primary (while losing the Texas caucus and the overall delegate split) with large pluralities from rural counties; thus reemerging as a competitive opponent in the race.[121]
MORE:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Rush_Limbaugh_Show#Operation_Chaos
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Mike 03
(16,616 posts)I've read the posts saying I shouldn't be, but I'll be listening probably well into the wee hours.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
yaesu
(8,020 posts)because that is our election system today & the #1 target is tRump. Lets congratulate the winner in Iowa & move on to the other states.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
ancianita
(35,816 posts)give a good range of endorsement to.
As with Iowans and the rest of us, knowing our problems puts us way ahead of others who don't know theirs and don't want to know; or, once knowing, rationalize doing nothing about them.
It's important for America to know that Iowans are sane, normal, "Okay," and a solid place for moving good politics forward.
Again, thanks.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Bettie
(15,998 posts)to come and spend three hours at a caucus. I don't think it will be much of an issue.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
booley
(3,855 posts)And Sanders historically has done well with caucuses.
I still like my state's open primary system as well.
I still have yet to see any indication "Operation chaos" ever went beyond conspiracy theories. I think most people really don't' have the time nor interest. To sway an election like that, you need a lot of people all committed. And only some states have open primaries which just adds to the logistics required.
I hope that remains true since Republicans would probably be voting for another centrist that Trump has already shown he can beat.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
tritsofme
(17,325 posts)This should be the last cycle they are ever used.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
JT45242
(2,173 posts)I will post on yet another thread how ridiculous it is to hold a caucus.
In Iowa City there is no caucus site with enough parking. Last time, I dropped off my wife with a bad knee and then parked a mile away and walked back. Then after standing in a middle school gym for two hours, I walked another mile in the cold to get the car and get my wife, who was in immense pain from standing for hours. I wonder how many people don't show up because of the physical stress it puts on their bodies. The only places with enough parking would be the Iowa basketball arena and football stadium and one of the 3 high schools in town. That seems fair....
For folks working 2nd shift, they can't leave work for 2 to 3 hours to caucus. They could potentially stop at a polling place on the way to or from work, but they simply cannot caucus.
I have to work at one of our out of state offices this week. So I cannot vote.
Caucuses maybe made sense when 20 people met. But now it makes it extremely difficult to vote. We are not Republicans, we should want more people to vote not less.
All primaries with only registered Democrat voting, and ideally running as well, but that is a different rant.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
octoberlib
(14,971 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
wyldwolf
(43,865 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
yellowdogintexas
(22,119 posts)The one restriction is run offs..if you voted in one primary you can't vote in the runoff for the other party. Texas is an open primary state, we do not have any party affiliation on our Voter Registration cards.
I live in Texas and every primary folks cross over to the other side because they think they are going to impact the results It doesn't work and it keeps your party of choice from finding you! We are so big that it just can't do any good or harm either way.
It CAN make a difference in a local election where the only choice is Republicans at various levels of competence and Tea Partiness. The county Democrats banded together as a block vote for the normal candidate and he won, thus keeping some really horrible people off the school board. Small town, local election.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
octoberlib
(14,971 posts)and I've seen other Republicans on Twitter trying to get people to do the same thing. It probably won't amount to anything. I googled it and can't find an answer.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Hortensis
(58,785 posts)in their seats, but tomorrow they'll be making high drama of the SOTU.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
HarlanPepper
(2,042 posts)But it will need to be moved. May or early June seems ideal.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
BlueMTexpat
(15,349 posts)All primaries should be "closed" to those who do not belong to the party.
That's why they are "party primaries," FFS.
But caucuses are still non-democratic in comparison to primaries. Both caucuses and open primaries can skew results.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
matt819
(10,749 posts)But the buffonery of an open primary is nothing compared to what we're reading about Iowa.
More important - and serious - is that the entire process needs some sort of realignment.
Votes need to be counted transparently and reliably.
There needs to be a GOTV process for the primaries as well as for the general election.
We need to reduce the significance of early states, especially when those early states are hardly representative of the country overall. Iowa and NH? Really? Two of the most homogeneous states. And NH has a Secretary of State whose primary claim to fame is that he will do anything to ensure that NH is the first primary. Picture that process. We could end up with a primary a full year or more before the general election.
Remember, though, that political parties are really answerable to no one. Oh, sure, they have to pay lip service to their voters, but that's all it is. The RNC has effectively anointed trump as the nominee. And the DNC is changing rules because, well, they can.
As a nation, we are truly fodder for comedians and late-night show hosts around the world.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
MichMan
(11,790 posts)Last edited Tue Feb 4, 2020, 01:31 PM - Edit history (3)
You just ask for either the Democratic or Republican ballot when you sign in.
There is always the concern over crossover sabotage, but that can sometimes backfire. In 2010, the primary for Michigan Governor had only one viable D candidate and a whole field of R candidates. There appeared to be a lot of crossover from Dems into the R primary.
A surprise candidate, Rick Snyder, with no previous government experience won over several better known R politicians. I believe
that it was Democratic voters that assumed a "no name" just had to be better than the others that allowed him to win the primary. Unfortunately he won easily in the General Election and enacted many damaging policies during his two terms.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided