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Joe BidenCongratulations to our presumptive Democratic nominee, Joe Biden!
 

Peacetrain

(22,836 posts)
Mon Feb 3, 2020, 12:05 PM Feb 2020

To everyone whining about Iowa and how we do things.. if you have an open primary

you might want to look in the mirror before you spend so much time telling us how bad we are.!! The republicans are already getting ready to muddle into the open primaries and try and mess with who we choose.. at least at our caucus you HAVE to be a registered Democrat.

This circus is headed your ways.. our time and input is will be over tonight.

I personally would not mind a closed primary and a caucus to organize.

But we do the best we can.. our markets are cheap and people who would not have a chance in hell have a chance in Iowa to get their story and point of view out.

These candidates literally become like family to us, and we really develop a great affection for all of them, and the people who work on the campaigns.

They stay in our homes, we furnish the campaign offices with what ever we can to help the various candidates out. they then hopefully donate said same and pass it on.

So it is all yours after tonight.. we have no say in who will be the eventual candidate. We are the proving ground and have to accept the final results.. The Super Tuesday voters will more than likely select who our next candidate will be, not Iowa, or NH or NV..







If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
57 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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To everyone whining about Iowa and how we do things.. if you have an open primary (Original Post) Peacetrain Feb 2020 OP
There is no credible reason why Iowa should go first. AtheistCrusader Feb 2020 #1
"I realize it requires the DNC to change that" rsdsharp Feb 2020 #7
that isn't binding for the DNC. wyldwolf Feb 2020 #13
Just because the DNC is organized under 527 doesn't give it supremacy over state law. rsdsharp Feb 2020 #14
What, under that law, do you imagine would be the penalty if another state tried to superscede it? AtheistCrusader Feb 2020 #20
I don't understand the question. rsdsharp Feb 2020 #32
Let's say the DNC allows another state to blindside Iowa with their caucus. AtheistCrusader Feb 2020 #36
No, it's not a criminal statute. rsdsharp Feb 2020 #38
Yeah, it does. wyldwolf Feb 2020 #21
But neither is the DNC a monolithic organization... brooklynite Feb 2020 #17
exactly. And no state law mandates the outcomes of these votes. wyldwolf Feb 2020 #25
Just out of curiosity... Pacifist Patriot Feb 2020 #16
See the 2008 Primary... brooklynite Feb 2020 #18
BUT... wyldwolf Feb 2020 #23
Yes they can...but they won't brooklynite Feb 2020 #24
Probably not, but the real argument here is... wyldwolf Feb 2020 #26
There is no Iowa State Law; the Caucus Process is controlled by the State Party... brooklynite Feb 2020 #34
the DUer in post #7 disagrees, which is what started this discussion wyldwolf Feb 2020 #37
That person is wrong;NH has a law; Iowa does not. brooklynite Feb 2020 #39
Iowa does have a law wyldwolf Feb 2020 #40
I would think this is unenforceable but Iowa does indeed appear to have a law. AtheistCrusader Feb 2020 #41
Disenfranchisement of entire state's voters wouldn't seem to be a very good idea. MichMan Feb 2020 #56
I don't know. I suppose it might result in litigation. rsdsharp Feb 2020 #30
Seed corn commercials! LeftInTX Feb 2020 #55
No, its not Miracle Gro, or Scotts (made by the same company, BTW). rsdsharp Feb 2020 #57
NH is expected to once again have a bunch of RW spoilers Hortensis Feb 2020 #2
Those people would have had to unregister Voltaire2 Feb 2020 #8
Happened in 2016, expected to be repeated. Hortensis Feb 2020 #9
Any actual evidence of that? Ace Rothstein Feb 2020 #10
Check Pew. They had to research two #s for Sanders voters Hortensis Feb 2020 #12
So again do you have any evidence that Voltaire2 Feb 2020 #42
Yes. Tons of it, all the way from election day exit polls to Hortensis Feb 2020 #43
I'm not wrong about NH. Voltaire2 Feb 2020 #44
How does that eliminate being a spoiler? My husband's Hortensis Feb 2020 #45
Wait, so you are opposed to closed primaries too? Voltaire2 Feb 2020 #46
Maybe a good reason not to have NH set the tone by going first. AtheistCrusader Feb 2020 #22
Likely. I'm guessing any state going first would influence Hortensis Feb 2020 #47
I'm from WA. I am biased, being among the states that are often 'not worth counting' because AtheistCrusader Feb 2020 #49
"a holdover tradition from a different society" Yes. nt Hortensis Feb 2020 #51
Given the total voter registration ratios, what is 'a bunch'? AtheistCrusader Feb 2020 #28
Remember Rush Limbaugh's "Operation Chaos"? JaneQPublic Feb 2020 #3
I'm excited about it. Mike 03 Feb 2020 #4
I have my favorites but I will be happy for whomever wins this primary or any other yaesu Feb 2020 #5
Thank you for defending Iowa voters. They do our country proud for all that they do, which you ancianita Feb 2020 #6
It would take a pretty dedicated Republican Bettie Feb 2020 #11
I see pros and cons with both systems booley Feb 2020 #15
Caucuses are indefensibly undemocratic and exclusionary. tritsofme Feb 2020 #19
Caucuses must go JT45242 Feb 2020 #31
Open primaries are bad as well. Republicans are going to vote in Virginia's octoberlib Feb 2020 #27
In VA, can Republicans vote in the Dem primary then vote for GOP in the general? wyldwolf Feb 2020 #29
of course since both parties are on the ballot. yellowdogintexas Feb 2020 #33
I don't know. I didn't know they had open primaries until Hugh Hewitt said he was voting for Bernie octoberlib Feb 2020 #35
I'm fine with Iowa. :) The chattering class is all coffeed up and Hortensis Feb 2020 #48
You can keep your caucus HarlanPepper Feb 2020 #50
True. BlueMTexpat Feb 2020 #52
Good point matt819 Feb 2020 #53
Michigan has open primaries with no party registration MichMan Feb 2020 #54
 

AtheistCrusader

(33,982 posts)
1. There is no credible reason why Iowa should go first.
Mon Feb 3, 2020, 12:15 PM
Feb 2020

I realize it requires the DNC to change that, and the party isn't interested in doing so this year, and that's fine.

It's going to remain a priority for myself, and others, for primary reform. I don't think we're anywhere near solved on all the problems that plagued the '16 primary.

(Republicans will not be able to tamper with the outcome of our open primary. (WA))

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

rsdsharp

(9,042 posts)
7. "I realize it requires the DNC to change that"
Mon Feb 3, 2020, 12:59 PM
Feb 2020

No, it would require a change in Iowa law. Iowa has a state law that requires it to be first in the nation by a minimum of 8 days. Iowa Code § 43.4. New Hampshire also has a state law that requires it to be the first primary.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

wyldwolf

(43,865 posts)
13. that isn't binding for the DNC.
Mon Feb 3, 2020, 01:59 PM
Feb 2020

the DNC is a 527 Organization, governed under federal law. No state law supersedes it. Iowa is first because the DNC wishes it to be.

ANY state could pass a law requiring them to be first.

Iowa's 'first in the nation' status wasn't established by the DNC until '72 and could be reassigned to any other state. Iowa state law couldn't prevent it. Now, Iowa could then move their caucus again to be first, and then another state could move theirs before Iowa, again. But the DNC could punish them for it the same way they punished Florida for trying to go first in 2012.

Once the drumbeat about Iowa gets loud enough, the DNC simply make another state first and punish Iowa if they try to hold their's sooner.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

rsdsharp

(9,042 posts)
14. Just because the DNC is organized under 527 doesn't give it supremacy over state law.
Mon Feb 3, 2020, 02:10 PM
Feb 2020

Section 43.4 applies to both Republican and Democratic caucuses. The DNC may try to "punish" Iowa, but until and unless state law is changed, Iowa will go first.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

AtheistCrusader

(33,982 posts)
20. What, under that law, do you imagine would be the penalty if another state tried to superscede it?
Mon Feb 3, 2020, 02:25 PM
Feb 2020
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

rsdsharp

(9,042 posts)
32. I don't understand the question.
Mon Feb 3, 2020, 02:50 PM
Feb 2020

If another state tries to move it's primary or caucus, Iowa would move theirs. It's happened before. Our law says 8 days before anyone else, and prior to February 4. The DNC (or RNC) might decide to impose sanctions (although I'm not sure on which state), but that isn't pursuant to a "law" per se.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

AtheistCrusader

(33,982 posts)
36. Let's say the DNC allows another state to blindside Iowa with their caucus.
Mon Feb 3, 2020, 03:03 PM
Feb 2020

It doesn't have to be out of the blue, Iowa can only move so fast, when things are planned out.

Would the DNC execs be criminally liable under this state law, do you think?

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

rsdsharp

(9,042 posts)
38. No, it's not a criminal statute.
Mon Feb 3, 2020, 03:09 PM
Feb 2020

Other states have tried to jump the line, and Iowa has moved up the caucus. The logistics are a problem for any state, and frankly, Iowa and New Hampshire have an advantage based on experience.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

wyldwolf

(43,865 posts)
21. Yeah, it does.
Mon Feb 3, 2020, 02:27 PM
Feb 2020

If a federal 527 ran afoul of a state law but not a federal law, that state's only recourse would be to pull that organization's ability to operate in that state.

If the DNC suddenly decided Georgia should go first, Iowa could move their's to be first again. The DNC could then strip Iowa of it's delegates, making the Iowa caucus meaningless. Oh, they might still get to hold their caucus first, but no candidates would compete.

Here, case in point. Florida, again. In May 2007, the Florida Legislature passed a bill that moved the date of the state's primary to January 29, 2008. There - it was now Florida state law that their Democratic primary be held on January 29. Michigan did the same. Moved their's to Jan. 15.

The DNC's Rules and Bylaws Committee decided to strip the states of all of its delegates to the party's 2008 presidential convention as punishment.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

brooklynite

(93,878 posts)
17. But neither is the DNC a monolithic organization...
Mon Feb 3, 2020, 02:22 PM
Feb 2020

The National Committee is made up of delegated representatives from the State Committee. Those are the people you have to convince.

FWIW - we'll be here have the same arguments in 2024.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

wyldwolf

(43,865 posts)
25. exactly. And no state law mandates the outcomes of these votes.
Mon Feb 3, 2020, 02:34 PM
Feb 2020

If the delegated representatives from the State Committees except Iowa's all decided to move the first deciding contest to Alaska, Iowa state law would have no bearing on the decision.

And if Iowa moved theirs before Alaska's, the DNC could nueter Iowa by stripping it of it's delegates.

The real argument here is is the DNC compelled by Iowa state law for Iowa to be first. It isn't.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Pacifist Patriot

(24,647 posts)
16. Just out of curiosity...
Mon Feb 3, 2020, 02:21 PM
Feb 2020

because I did not know that (thanks for the education!), what would happen if other states passed laws that they had to be first? Actually, come to think of it, I'm surprised no other state has done that, especially Florida. Our state legislature is comprised of folks who would be contrary enough to try it. LOL!

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

brooklynite

(93,878 posts)
18. See the 2008 Primary...
Mon Feb 3, 2020, 02:23 PM
Feb 2020

Some States (FL included I believe) attempted to horn in on New Hampshire (Iowa is a matter of State Party choice). The New Hampshire Government was prepared to move their Primary into December 2007 to maintain their first in the nation status.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

wyldwolf

(43,865 posts)
23. BUT...
Mon Feb 3, 2020, 02:31 PM
Feb 2020

It would have been well within the DNC's power to strip New Hamphshire (and Iowa) of their delegates for making that move just as they punished FL and MI for moving theirs

The DNC is not mandated by any state law to hold a primary or caucus first in any state other than the ones they wish them to be in.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

brooklynite

(93,878 posts)
24. Yes they can...but they won't
Mon Feb 3, 2020, 02:33 PM
Feb 2020

The DNC Members from other States could demand that they change the sequence; they never have.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

wyldwolf

(43,865 posts)
26. Probably not, but the real argument here is...
Mon Feb 3, 2020, 02:36 PM
Feb 2020

is the DNC compelled by Iowa state law for Iowa to be first? It clearly isn't.

All it would take would be enough state committee's protesting the unrepresentative nature of Iowa to seal Iowa's 'first in the nation' doom.

Some states have already begun this.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

brooklynite

(93,878 posts)
34. There is no Iowa State Law; the Caucus Process is controlled by the State Party...
Mon Feb 3, 2020, 02:56 PM
Feb 2020
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

wyldwolf

(43,865 posts)
37. the DUer in post #7 disagrees, which is what started this discussion
Mon Feb 3, 2020, 03:03 PM
Feb 2020
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

brooklynite

(93,878 posts)
39. That person is wrong;NH has a law; Iowa does not.
Mon Feb 3, 2020, 03:11 PM
Feb 2020

However, the Iowa Democratic Party is very protective of its status and will secure commitments from candidates to protect it.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

wyldwolf

(43,865 posts)
40. Iowa does have a law
Mon Feb 3, 2020, 03:13 PM
Feb 2020

Iowa Code § 43.4

1. Delegates to county conventions of political parties and party committee members
shall be elected at precinct caucuses held not later than the fourth Monday in February of
each even-numbered year. The date shall be at least eight days earlier than the scheduled
date for any meeting, caucus, or primary which constitutes the first determining stage of the
presidential nominating process in any other state, territory, or any other group which has
the authority to select delegates in the presidential nomination.


The DNC isn't bound to it.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

AtheistCrusader

(33,982 posts)
41. I would think this is unenforceable but Iowa does indeed appear to have a law.
Mon Feb 3, 2020, 03:14 PM
Feb 2020
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

MichMan

(11,790 posts)
56. Disenfranchisement of entire state's voters wouldn't seem to be a very good idea.
Tue Feb 4, 2020, 01:34 PM
Feb 2020
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

rsdsharp

(9,042 posts)
30. I don't know. I suppose it might result in litigation.
Mon Feb 3, 2020, 02:45 PM
Feb 2020

For Iowa and New Hampshire, being first means money. Millions pour into both states for radio, TV, newspaper and billboard ad buys, hotels, meals, rental cars, campaign headquarters rental, staff salaries, and God knows what else.

Every four years there is a hue and cry over how unrepresentative Iowa and Hew Hampshire are, and that's true. But the people here take their responsibility very seriously. Presidential politics here is retail. Candidates meet a lot of actual people, at diners, and bars, and in backyards and living rooms, as well as at speeches and meet-and-greets, and they get asked tough questions. If California or New York or Texas were first, the dynamic would likely be much different.

So there are incentives worth fighting for, but frankly, there are negatives, too. By this time everyone in the state is sick to death of the process -- and the political commercials. Last night, after the Super Bowl, I switched over to the local news and every commercial availability -- EVERY SINGLE ONE was a political commercial. Thank God Bloomberg isn't running ads here, and that the Republican nomination isn't up for grabs. If it were, all of the avails would have been filled going back to Thanksgiving.

Tomorrow, we'll be back to herbicide and seed corn commercials, and damn glad of it. But in about 2 1/2 years (maybe less) the process will start again. Unless Florida tries to cut the line!

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

LeftInTX

(24,560 posts)
55. Seed corn commercials!
Tue Feb 4, 2020, 12:56 PM
Feb 2020

Don't have them here in San Antonio.

We have generic big box products products like Miracle Gro, Scotts Turf Builder and we used to have Round Up commercials, but even down here, they don't pop up until March.

I assume the Iowa herbicide commercials are not big box herbicides and require a pesticide applicators license to purchase!

Funny..how geography changes things!

I assume the Big Ag commercials are kinda like the Pharma commercials!!

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

rsdsharp

(9,042 posts)
57. No, its not Miracle Gro, or Scotts (made by the same company, BTW).
Tue Feb 4, 2020, 01:36 PM
Feb 2020

Most farmers use anhydrous ammonia as fertilizer. It comes in liquid form in large silver or white tanks that look like a tank used to store propane for household heating, except they are on wheels and are towed to the farms. A fairly small farm here is 160 acres. Many run 500-600 acres or more, and it takes a lot of product to fertilize that much ground.

There are herbicides like Round Up, and insecticides to kill corn borers and other creepy crawlies that hurt crop yield. Farmers buy it in granular form or in liquid concentrate and mix it with water for application. this isn't your gallon bottle of Round Up.

And of course there are the seed commercials for corn and soybeans. There's a fair amount of alfalfa grown, too.

I wouldn't compare them to Pharma commercials, although they are pretty slickly produced. They don't have 10 seconds worth of side effect disclaimers though, although some of the insecticides should.

It's amusing to see the media portray Iowa farming during the caucus season. They love to show 60-70 year old tractors that have been loving restored, and only get run in a parade. Modern tractors cost $100,000 and up. Combines start at about $250,000. If you want to easily see what modern farming equipment looks like watch Girl Meets Farm with Molly Yeh on the Food Network. Her husband and father-in-law farm, although it's sugar beats and wheat, rather than corn and soybeans.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Hortensis

(58,785 posts)
2. NH is expected to once again have a bunch of RW spoilers
Mon Feb 3, 2020, 12:18 PM
Feb 2020

voting in the Democratic primary for candidates they think Trump can defeat. Sanders and Buttigieg are both believed to be favorites this time instead of just Sanders.

Frankly, I'm just feeling good that we're finally starting. We've waited for so long, and I never expected it to be calm and easy. The giant battle for power and our future will be the GE, with the various nations and RW-supporting me that are already working to defeat us interfering far more determinedly. It's not a potentially existential election for us alone.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Voltaire2

(12,629 posts)
8. Those people would have had to unregister
Mon Feb 3, 2020, 01:24 PM
Feb 2020

as Republicans back in October. Any evidence of a massive change in party registration in NH?

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

Hortensis

(58,785 posts)
9. Happened in 2016, expected to be repeated.
Mon Feb 3, 2020, 01:29 PM
Feb 2020

NH's a swing state with narrow election margins, encouraging attempts at electoral oversets by people lacking in principles but rich in partisan antagonism.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Ace Rothstein

(3,110 posts)
10. Any actual evidence of that?
Mon Feb 3, 2020, 01:35 PM
Feb 2020

More voters voted in the Repbulican primary in 2016 than voted in the Democratic primary in 2016 in New Hampshire by 35k votes.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

Hortensis

(58,785 posts)
12. Check Pew. They had to research two #s for Sanders voters
Mon Feb 3, 2020, 01:46 PM
Feb 2020

in 2016, his genuine support for him for president (the ones who'd vote for him in the GE), and the rest. They had to do that for every state.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Voltaire2

(12,629 posts)
42. So again do you have any evidence that
Mon Feb 3, 2020, 07:42 PM
Feb 2020

Republicans in NH have unenrolled from the Republican Party in significant numbers? That is the only way that they can vote in the Democratic primary, and they would have had to unenroll back in October.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

Hortensis

(58,785 posts)
43. Yes. Tons of it, all the way from election day exit polls to
Mon Feb 3, 2020, 08:10 PM
Feb 2020

in depth post election studies performed by experts.

And you're wrong about NH, btw, check the state web site for that.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Voltaire2

(12,629 posts)
44. I'm not wrong about NH.
Mon Feb 3, 2020, 09:26 PM
Feb 2020

Affiliated voters, those who declared a party when they registered to vote, cannot vote in another party’s primary. Undeclared voters can, by enrolling at the poll, and are also allowed to unenroll after voting.

Declared voters cannot change their status after the filing period for the primary registration for candidates ends. That occurred last October.

https://sos.nh.gov/VotePartyPrimFAQ.aspx

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

Hortensis

(58,785 posts)
45. How does that eliminate being a spoiler? My husband's
Mon Feb 3, 2020, 09:28 PM
Feb 2020

registered Republican for a reason, and it's not because he's a blood-red southern conservative. So much of that goes on in NH that it's a serious anti-Democratic Party problem.

Again, it's critical to learn about who and what the candidates we might vote for are. Before voting. Anything else is straight out of How to be a Sucker for Dummies.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Voltaire2

(12,629 posts)
46. Wait, so you are opposed to closed primaries too?
Tue Feb 4, 2020, 06:49 AM
Feb 2020

How are you going to stop people from disingenuous enrollment? A purity test?

I thought we were discussing the merits of NH’s sort-of open primary. Apparently we aren’t.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

AtheistCrusader

(33,982 posts)
22. Maybe a good reason not to have NH set the tone by going first.
Mon Feb 3, 2020, 02:28 PM
Feb 2020

'momentum' and all that.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Hortensis

(58,785 posts)
47. Likely. I'm guessing any state going first would influence
Tue Feb 4, 2020, 07:02 AM
Feb 2020

the course to some unfortunate degree, though. The chattering classes would be wherever making high drama out of everything. So maybe one primary election day would be best.

Speaking of, California's primary is March 3, with 495 pledged and unpledged delegates. We're from California, and because it used to vote fairly late we normally knew who'd won most national seats, including the presidency of course, before we voted. So a lot of people skipped voting. But what's the effect going to be of moving that up so early?

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

AtheistCrusader

(33,982 posts)
49. I'm from WA. I am biased, being among the states that are often 'not worth counting' because
Tue Feb 4, 2020, 11:15 AM
Feb 2020

A) we're overwhelmingly blue, and B) the chronological order of polls closing, but I suppose I'd be satisfied seeing California getting a first crack at it for once. Or even Oregon.

Honestly, I'm not sure if changing the order is going to materially alter the outcome of the primary, but having one state with its demographics such as they are, go first every time.. seems like a holdover tradition from a different society than we find ourselves in today.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Hortensis

(58,785 posts)
51. "a holdover tradition from a different society" Yes. nt
Tue Feb 4, 2020, 11:18 AM
Feb 2020
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

AtheistCrusader

(33,982 posts)
28. Given the total voter registration ratios, what is 'a bunch'?
Mon Feb 3, 2020, 02:37 PM
Feb 2020

We have enough problems without worrying about phantoms.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

JaneQPublic

(7,113 posts)
3. Remember Rush Limbaugh's "Operation Chaos"?
Mon Feb 3, 2020, 12:21 PM
Feb 2020
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Rush_Limbaugh_Show#Operation_Chaos

From the link:

In late February 2008, Limbaugh announced "Operation Chaos," a political call to action with the initial plan to have voters of the Republican Party temporarily cross over to vote in the Democratic primary and vote for Hillary Clinton, who at the time was in the midst of losing eleven straight primary contests to Barack Obama.[118] Limbaugh has also cited the open primary process in the early primary states of New Hampshire and South Carolina, which allowed independent voters to cross over into the Republican primaries to choose John McCain over more conservative candidates (such as Fred Thompson), as an inspiration.[119]

At the point in which Limbaugh announced his gambit, Obama had seemed on the verge of clinching the Democratic nomination.[120] However, Clinton subsequently won the Ohio primary and the Texas primary (while losing the Texas caucus and the overall delegate split) with large pluralities from rural counties; thus reemerging as a competitive opponent in the race.[121]


MORE:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Rush_Limbaugh_Show#Operation_Chaos
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Mike 03

(16,616 posts)
4. I'm excited about it.
Mon Feb 3, 2020, 12:45 PM
Feb 2020

I've read the posts saying I shouldn't be, but I'll be listening probably well into the wee hours.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

yaesu

(8,020 posts)
5. I have my favorites but I will be happy for whomever wins this primary or any other
Mon Feb 3, 2020, 12:45 PM
Feb 2020

because that is our election system today & the #1 target is tRump. Lets congratulate the winner in Iowa & move on to the other states.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

ancianita

(35,816 posts)
6. Thank you for defending Iowa voters. They do our country proud for all that they do, which you
Mon Feb 3, 2020, 12:50 PM
Feb 2020

give a good range of endorsement to.

As with Iowans and the rest of us, knowing our problems puts us way ahead of others who don't know theirs and don't want to know; or, once knowing, rationalize doing nothing about them.

It's important for America to know that Iowans are sane, normal, "Okay," and a solid place for moving good politics forward.

Again, thanks.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Bettie

(15,998 posts)
11. It would take a pretty dedicated Republican
Mon Feb 3, 2020, 01:37 PM
Feb 2020

to come and spend three hours at a caucus. I don't think it will be much of an issue.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

booley

(3,855 posts)
15. I see pros and cons with both systems
Mon Feb 3, 2020, 02:20 PM
Feb 2020

And Sanders historically has done well with caucuses.

I still like my state's open primary system as well.

I still have yet to see any indication "Operation chaos" ever went beyond conspiracy theories. I think most people really don't' have the time nor interest. To sway an election like that, you need a lot of people all committed. And only some states have open primaries which just adds to the logistics required.

I hope that remains true since Republicans would probably be voting for another centrist that Trump has already shown he can beat.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

tritsofme

(17,325 posts)
19. Caucuses are indefensibly undemocratic and exclusionary.
Mon Feb 3, 2020, 02:24 PM
Feb 2020

This should be the last cycle they are ever used.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

JT45242

(2,173 posts)
31. Caucuses must go
Mon Feb 3, 2020, 02:49 PM
Feb 2020

I will post on yet another thread how ridiculous it is to hold a caucus.

In Iowa City there is no caucus site with enough parking. Last time, I dropped off my wife with a bad knee and then parked a mile away and walked back. Then after standing in a middle school gym for two hours, I walked another mile in the cold to get the car and get my wife, who was in immense pain from standing for hours. I wonder how many people don't show up because of the physical stress it puts on their bodies. The only places with enough parking would be the Iowa basketball arena and football stadium and one of the 3 high schools in town. That seems fair....

For folks working 2nd shift, they can't leave work for 2 to 3 hours to caucus. They could potentially stop at a polling place on the way to or from work, but they simply cannot caucus.

I have to work at one of our out of state offices this week. So I cannot vote.

Caucuses maybe made sense when 20 people met. But now it makes it extremely difficult to vote. We are not Republicans, we should want more people to vote not less.

All primaries with only registered Democrat voting, and ideally running as well, but that is a different rant.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

octoberlib

(14,971 posts)
27. Open primaries are bad as well. Republicans are going to vote in Virginia's
Mon Feb 3, 2020, 02:37 PM
Feb 2020
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

wyldwolf

(43,865 posts)
29. In VA, can Republicans vote in the Dem primary then vote for GOP in the general?
Mon Feb 3, 2020, 02:42 PM
Feb 2020
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

yellowdogintexas

(22,119 posts)
33. of course since both parties are on the ballot.
Mon Feb 3, 2020, 02:53 PM
Feb 2020

The one restriction is run offs..if you voted in one primary you can't vote in the runoff for the other party. Texas is an open primary state, we do not have any party affiliation on our Voter Registration cards.

I live in Texas and every primary folks cross over to the other side because they think they are going to impact the results It doesn't work and it keeps your party of choice from finding you! We are so big that it just can't do any good or harm either way.

It CAN make a difference in a local election where the only choice is Republicans at various levels of competence and Tea Partiness. The county Democrats banded together as a block vote for the normal candidate and he won, thus keeping some really horrible people off the school board. Small town, local election.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

octoberlib

(14,971 posts)
35. I don't know. I didn't know they had open primaries until Hugh Hewitt said he was voting for Bernie
Mon Feb 3, 2020, 02:56 PM
Feb 2020

and I've seen other Republicans on Twitter trying to get people to do the same thing. It probably won't amount to anything. I googled it and can't find an answer.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Hortensis

(58,785 posts)
48. I'm fine with Iowa. :) The chattering class is all coffeed up and
Tue Feb 4, 2020, 07:06 AM
Feb 2020

in their seats, but tomorrow they'll be making high drama of the SOTU.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

HarlanPepper

(2,042 posts)
50. You can keep your caucus
Tue Feb 4, 2020, 11:16 AM
Feb 2020

But it will need to be moved. May or early June seems ideal.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

BlueMTexpat

(15,349 posts)
52. True.
Tue Feb 4, 2020, 11:26 AM
Feb 2020

All primaries should be "closed" to those who do not belong to the party.

That's why they are "party primaries," FFS.

But caucuses are still non-democratic in comparison to primaries. Both caucuses and open primaries can skew results.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

matt819

(10,749 posts)
53. Good point
Tue Feb 4, 2020, 12:07 PM
Feb 2020

But the buffonery of an open primary is nothing compared to what we're reading about Iowa.

More important - and serious - is that the entire process needs some sort of realignment.

Votes need to be counted transparently and reliably.

There needs to be a GOTV process for the primaries as well as for the general election.

We need to reduce the significance of early states, especially when those early states are hardly representative of the country overall. Iowa and NH? Really? Two of the most homogeneous states. And NH has a Secretary of State whose primary claim to fame is that he will do anything to ensure that NH is the first primary. Picture that process. We could end up with a primary a full year or more before the general election.

Remember, though, that political parties are really answerable to no one. Oh, sure, they have to pay lip service to their voters, but that's all it is. The RNC has effectively anointed trump as the nominee. And the DNC is changing rules because, well, they can.

As a nation, we are truly fodder for comedians and late-night show hosts around the world.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

MichMan

(11,790 posts)
54. Michigan has open primaries with no party registration
Tue Feb 4, 2020, 12:36 PM
Feb 2020

Last edited Tue Feb 4, 2020, 01:31 PM - Edit history (3)

You just ask for either the Democratic or Republican ballot when you sign in.

There is always the concern over crossover sabotage, but that can sometimes backfire. In 2010, the primary for Michigan Governor had only one viable D candidate and a whole field of R candidates. There appeared to be a lot of crossover from Dems into the R primary.

A surprise candidate, Rick Snyder, with no previous government experience won over several better known R politicians. I believe
that it was Democratic voters that assumed a "no name" just had to be better than the others that allowed him to win the primary. Unfortunately he won easily in the General Election and enacted many damaging policies during his two terms.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
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