Democratic Primaries
Related: About this forumIf your favorite candidate cannot beat Bernie, then how can you argue that they're more electable?
No other candidate has beaten Bernie so far this primary seaon. So, when people post that Bernie cannot win, what does that say about the other candidates?
If Bernie is the disaster that some people think that he is, then why aren't the other candidates beating him?
Now, you can argue that the vote against him is split. Fair enough. However, Warren is in the same lane as Bernie (and I support Warren), and the former Vice President cannot fend off a mayor from a small town or a heretofore nationally unknown senator. IOW, no one else has shown equal strength to Bernie.
Look, I doubted Bernie. I didn't believe that he could do this, but I was wrong about him and his campaign. What makes you electable is having a strong organization behind you, not a media narrative, not some pundit on a talk show, but real live human beings in the streets working on your behalf.
I'd rather go into November with a candidate that has a strong organization behind him over a candidate that the Morning Joe team likes.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Progressive2020
(713 posts)This idea that Bernie can't get elected is just nonsense.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
oldsoftie
(12,410 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Buzz cook
(2,470 posts)Giving Sanders wins.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
McTwisty
(39 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
AlexSFCA
(6,137 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Demsrule86
(68,347 posts)Virginia and Georgia...other places too...who will not vote for him, but will stay home or even vote for Trump. That is the reality we face He split the moderate vote and does not have a winning majority and operation chaos inflates his numbers as well. He will not win back the blue wall states.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
oldsoftie
(12,410 posts)Especially caucus voters.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Uncle Joe
(58,110 posts)Thanks for the thread Yavin.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Grown2Hate
(2,005 posts)the philosophical exercise), it's because he's getting a plurality of the vote, not a majority (since he's taking the more progressive vote in total and the more moderate Dems are splitting each other up). So, from that perspective, it's a bit of a perfect storm that he leads this field and doesn't translate directly to strength in the general necessarily.
That being said, I don't buy that he can't win in November. I think his presence at the top of the ticket MIGHT have some negative effect on House seats we won in red districts in 2018 (when they have to try to distance themselves to STAY elected in those redder districts), but I think even that is being overblown. We're winning in November no matter WHAT the fuck happens, because we absolutely HAVE TO DO SO. And I'll be doing EVERYTHING I CAN to help make that happen, which we all should. We lose and America is gone, I believe.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Progressive2020
(713 posts)I agree with you. Sanders is leading with a plurality. This contest is far from over, but we all should unite after it to ensure that Trump is defeated. The more extreme anti-Bernie types maybe should cool off a bit. If Bernie ends up being the Nominee, we will all need to work together to get him elected. The people saying that he is unelectable are doing the Republicans work for them. It could become a self-fulfilling prophecy if enough people believe it. I personally will vote for whoever gets the Democratic nomination, even if it is someone I do not like at all, like Bloomberg. We must defeat Trump at all costs. No matter who the nominee is...
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Grown2Hate
(2,005 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
cilla4progress
(24,587 posts)I wrote about donating to Biden: I said I did it because I felt he could have won if people would have voted for him. Then I saw how ridiculous that was!
She supports Bernie. She wants to be hopeful.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
tecelote
(5,122 posts)I think Warren would get more done but I'll gladly support Bernie because of my kids. They need hope. We are the first generation to leave them with less... and climate change.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
sheshe2
(83,324 posts)A tie. A very very slim win. And a win.
Alrighty then.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
William769
(55,124 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
sheshe2
(83,324 posts)Twas a loss.
Spin it~
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
handmade34
(22,755 posts)in "normal times"... we got Obama because of the good organization and the young vote, but we also got Obama because, despite the right wanting to paint him otherwise, he was pretty moderate ( but with a clear progressive bent)
sure Democrats get it and while Bernie has 40% of those voting... we need more to beat trump... we need the swing states
so the primaries don't reflect how we need to strategically act to take the Presidency and the Senate and keep the House
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
William769
(55,124 posts)Yes try as you all might by sticking your head in the sand, Mayor Pete beat Bernie in Iowa. I know that sticks in your craw, you are just going to have to get over it.
Have a nice day.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
DanieRains
(4,619 posts)And like everywhere, rural votes count more than urban votes.
So be it.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
COLGATE4
(14,732 posts)He will be running against Trump.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Response to Yavin4 (Original post)
COLGATE4 This message was self-deleted by its author.
I_UndergroundPanther
(12,450 posts)Tired of the Bernie Bashing.
I am very glad Bernie is winning.
Bernie and Elizabeth Warren give me hope things will change for the better. I am poor. Bernie wants to help us. I will be happy to cast my vote for him.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Cha
(295,899 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
stopdiggin
(11,089 posts)that DON'T vote in the primary? (among a lot of other valid reasons?)
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Jake Stern
(3,145 posts)if Bernie couldnt win the primary what makes you think he would have won the general election?
Looks like some folks cant stand having that flipped back at them.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Orrex
(63,084 posts)How can you argue that he can beat Trump?
We've heard for years that Sanders was the victim of DNC trickery and all the rest. Does anyone really think that Trump won't engage in actually trickery, attacks, and general bullshit?
Sanders has never once demonstrated that he can withstand such an onslaught. He can barely handle a softball interview without losing his cool.
I would love to be wrong, and hell yes I'll vote for him if he lands on the ballot, but let's not pretend that he's the unassailable candidate as some would have us believe.
But, as to your question, the answer is this: the primary voters are not the majority of voters on election day, so what appeals to primary voters is not necessarily an indication of who will appeal to general election voters.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
pnwmom
(108,925 posts)In my state Bernie won 73% of the caucus vote; and Hillary won 53% of the primaries -- in which almost 4 times as many people participated.
Also, two of the events so far were in very heavily white states -- not representative of most.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
DanieRains
(4,619 posts)I didn't see the primary totals.
The reddest area of the state.
I think Bernie can win.
Making the wealthy pay some of their 50 trillion in wealth in taxes sounds good to a lot of people.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
pnwmom
(108,925 posts)But in the primaries, where many more people voted, almost 40,000 more voters chose Hillary.
https://results.vote.wa.gov/results/20160524/President-Democratic-Party_ByCounty.html
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
DanieRains
(4,619 posts)I feel sorry for Hillary.
The FBI really screwed her.
I don't blame her, or Bernie one bit for losing the EC.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
SunSeeker
(51,367 posts)He pointed out on a recent show that only Bernie has an army like Trump. Bernie does have incredibly devoted supporters, I'll give him that. I was driving down the 405 FWY in West L.A. tonight and I saw 3 enthusiastic Bernie supporters up on an overpass waving huge American flags and Bernie signs, jumping up and down as traffic whizzed by underneath their feet. I'll admit, you don't see that kind of display by the other candidates' supporters around L.A.
But I fear they don't know the full extent of his baggage, and will be caught flat footed when it comes out in the GE if he is the nominee. Kinda like on 60 Minutes tonight when Bernie couldn't answer the simple question of how much all his programs will cost. But maybe in the end none of that will matter, like Trump's baggage did not stop him.
I'm not a religious person, but I've been desperately praying we Democrats choose a candidate who will beat Trump. May God help us.
And of course, I'll vote blue no matter who.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
AlexSFCA
(6,137 posts)probably the most informed supporters out there. This is democracy at its finest, grassroots support, genuine people believing in cause. No other candidates are able to generate that kind of enthusiasm. Hillary lost in 2016, Biden is far less exciting than she was as a candidate. Its a good thing to have an army of bernies in all 50 states policing polls.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
SunSeeker
(51,367 posts)Most had never heard of him before 2015.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
HarlanPepper
(2,042 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
videohead5
(2,150 posts)Last edited Mon Feb 24, 2020, 06:25 AM - Edit history (1)
They are splitting the votes between 3 and 4 candidates. It's just Bernie and Warren on the far left.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
SergeStorms
(18,882 posts)Let's say all but one "moderate" candidate dropped out and was running against BS. Biden perhaps, or Buttigieg, or Klobuchar, or even Bloomberg ......only one of them. Bernie is polling at about 27% of the vote so far, with the remainder split between 4 other candidates, or undecided. If the moderates are narrowed down to one candidate, I think BS will get his clock cleaned.
Those moderate voters are not going to flock to the socialist candidate. They're just not. Head to head, one moderate vs. BS, the moderate cleans up. For the future of the Democratic Party this has to happen! Republicans and "outside players" desperately want BS to run against Trump. Do BS supporters think there might be a reason for that?
Republicans have been swaying elections since the 70s with dirty tricks so they can run against the weakest Democrat possible. There's no reason to think they're going to change horses in the middle of a stream now.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Fiendish Thingy
(15,366 posts)If they put the country before their egos, thats what they would do. After Super Tuesday, it will be too late. I think Bloomberg is hoping to swoop in and take the nomination at a brokered convention- where does that leave Joe, Pete, and Amy?
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
SergeStorms
(18,882 posts)Warren doesn't drop out as well. They continue to believe they're the best solution for the Trump problem. Certainly Warren knows she doesn't have a chance of beating Bernie, correct? Then what's the sense of her continuing as a far left candidate? Oh, I guess I just answered my own question. She's now veering to the center and attacking the more moderate candidates. She now wants to edge her way into the "moderate" category. Why she never took Bernie on is clearly puzzling since she was more aligned with his proposed policies.
After Super Tuesday I think there will be a winnowing out of Democratic candidates. Then we'll see what happens.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
AlexSFCA
(6,137 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
SunSeeker
(51,367 posts)With 87.55% of precincts reporting:
Sanders: 47.1%
Biden: 20.1%
Buttigieg: 13.6%
Warren: 9.7%
Steyer: 4.7%
Klobuchar: 3.9%
The top 5 not-Bernie candidates got 52% of the vote. The top 4 got 48.1%. Currently, that's more than Bernie.
Bernie basically got what he got in 2016.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Voltaire2
(12,618 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
That is about as clear an indicator of electability as exists.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Recursion
(56,582 posts)What worries the hell out of me is the situation where Sanders reaches the convention with a plurality of delegates.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
christx30
(6,241 posts)Hillary in the general election. This year, I hope to vote for him in both elections, and watch him on January 20th on the steps of the Supreme Court, when he takes the oath.
A Bloomberg pollster came to my door tonight. She was kind of taken aback that my mind was so made up about Bernie. She kind of shrugged and handed me a pamphlet and left my porch. But I did wish her luck.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
RockRaven
(14,782 posts)I can be the most popular badminton player in the history of badminton fandom. I can win a poll of badminton fans asking: "who is the badmintonest badmintoner who ever badmintoned a badminton?" with 99% of the vote...
and still lose a "world's most popular athlete" poll by a fucking mile. Because the sports fandom world includes a crap-load of people other than badminton fans.
I DGAF who the most popular Dem is amongst Dems. I care who's most likely to beat Trump in the general election AND help get the Senate.
Any assessment of the strength of a candidate based on primary polls/votes is willfully ignoring that the sample is not representative of general election voters, nor does it take into account the electoral college.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
uponit7771
(90,225 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Voltaire2
(12,618 posts)Republicans. Or some other nonsense. We dont count basically. And more seriously when your strategy is to woo center right Republican voters like its 1996 you will see things from that perspective.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Rumanji
(11 posts)Bernie supporters said he was electable.
Your theory is that if a candidate can't win the primary, said candidate is not electable in the general.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Yavin4
(35,354 posts)"Your theory is that if a candidate can't win the primary, said candidate is not electable in the general."
Correct. If you cannot win over your own party, you cannot win in the general election.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Blue_Tires
(55,445 posts)This isn't rocket science...
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Yavin4
(35,354 posts)If the former Vice President of the US is splitting the vote with an unknown mayor of a tiny town in a small state, then he's not electable.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Blue_Tires
(55,445 posts)the trope of "electability"?
It's because of that bullshit that Kamala had to go home...
Nevermind the fact that my issues with St. Bern go WAY beyond something as trivial as that.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Deero
(86 posts)otherwise, by your logic, every person who won the democratic nomination would also win the presidency.
who has argued that Sanders cant win a democratic primary? The argument is that he is the worst candidate we could nominate for a national general election.
In just the past 24 hours he ensured that he would lose the largest tossup state in the election.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Yavin4
(35,354 posts)That's not my logic. My logic is that you cannot argue that a candidate is more electable when said candidate cannot win the party's primary contests.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Deero
(86 posts)because it isnt the same electorate.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Yavin4
(35,354 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
democrats AREN'T the only ones allowed to vote in the general election.
It is a very easy concept to understand. Winning among a subgroup does not make you most likely to win among the group as a whole.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
HarlanPepper
(2,042 posts)Who also beat Bernie but did not beat Bernies prospective (common) opponent?
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Yavin4
(35,354 posts)She didn't pay enough attention to Wisconsin, Michigan, and Penn.
But this is not 2016!!! It's 2020!!!
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
HarlanPepper
(2,042 posts)I do not think Bernie can beat Dump in any year.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Yavin4
(35,354 posts)I'll wait.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
HarlanPepper
(2,042 posts)And payroll tax increases for the working class to pay for M4A. Remind me of all the successful presidential campaigns in the modern era that have been built on the promise of tax increases for the middle class? Ill wait.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Yavin4
(35,354 posts)are somehow going to magically win the general election against Trump.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Demsrule86
(68,347 posts)a weak candidate...there are family members of mine who will not vote for him in a general...and they are Democrats...God help us with the Independents. He will lose a general. Trump gets four more years and more judges...our very Republic is at risk especially if we don't hold the house...hope I am wrong. But if not...I got to say, I will never forgive the so called progressive wing of the party (don't get that as we are all Democrats) or Sanders. I am a Democrat period from now on.
It was clear to most of us that we live in a moderate left at best country and to think that Sanders can win a General shows how politically out of step with our real situation the 'progressive wing' is...this was a winnable election. And the consequences of losing are dire. I hope to God if Sanders is the nominee, we win, but I don't think we will...and let me tell you I won't be in any mood for excuses as I have spent most of this primary showing maps that support my political theory...in order to win the rust belt which is where we need to win...a moderate candidate is the only choice. I am a Democrat period...honestly if we lose with Sanders I don't ever want to hear the word 'progressive'.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
NurseJackie
(42,862 posts)Even when Bernie runs on the Democratic ticket, he attacks the party. That doesnt exactly endear him to committed party members especially in todays political environment, when being a united party is key. By stating that the Democratic establishment AND the Republican establishment cant stop him, he is being extremely divisive by putting himself out as someone who is actually running against BOTH parties, and not as someone who is running FOR the party that he is supposedly running on behalf of.
The constant cries about how being a Democratic socialist doesnt mean he IS a communist-type socialist is a moot point. Unless you plan to go door-to-door and explain the difference to all of the voters who equate socialism with USSR communism, you are not going to change their minds. They hear socialist, and they attach their own (albeit ill-informed) meaning to the term and its NOT the style of government they will vote for.
Ive seen this repeatedly on the sites I participate in where both Dems and Repubs post: I dont want Trump to be re-elected but Ill be damned if Ill vote for a communist. You can shout all you want about how these people dont understand what socialism is, or how what Bernie is proposing isnt socialism as they perceive it. But people vote according to what they believe, and not according to what you think they should believe.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden