Democratic Underground

Archives: May 3, 2016

Not going to vote?

House Republicans Have A Temper Tantrum Over Rule That Bans Financial Advisers From Scamming Retiree

Bernie is getting less votes than Hillary and Trump in the primaries

Trump leads Clinton by two points in Rasmussen poll

Hillary Spent $157,763,660 and LOST A 55 Point Advantage In One Year

The Bernie media blackout continues-Jane is on MSNBC AGAIN

Labour has secretly suspended 50 members for anti-Semitic and racist comments

Nicole Wallace just can't stop shilling for Hillary

Despite coming up short in presidential run, Martin O’Malley optimistic about future.

No motive established yet in the murder of the two American men

The Clinton campaign has raised 2.4 million from the Woman Card

BTRTN Indiana Prediction: Ted Cruz Pulls Out All the Stops...But Will Lose (As Will Bernie)

Bernie Sanders Vetted

Now Hilliary is flip-flopping on coal

Daily Holidays - May 2

GAO: Delayed ship maintenance threatens Navy's ability to meet operational demands

And now LBN locks a thread about Leicester City winning EPL?

Take a smile break.... Bernie Style.

Trump is a sexist dog who appeals to bigotry and is a bully

Remaining elections by closed vs. open/semi-closed + misc info

Tomorrow, NYC City Hall -NOON rally against election fraud - also at 1pm Board of Elections meeting

Wrestling body revokes ex-House Speaker Hastert's awards

Dumbass Debbie Says Independents Not Welcome In Democratic Elections


Where's the transcript of Bernie's Vatican speech?

Poll: Ohioans want John Kasich to drop out

British Labour Party's Anti-Semitism Turmoil: Epitome of Why I Oppose Syrian non-Yazidi Refugees

Pakistan raps Trump over vow to free doctor who helped track bin Laden

Methinks the lady dost protest too much!

I figured out why so many BSers won't vote for HRC in Nov

Seattle City Council kills sale of street for Sodo arena

8 Women Explain Why They Got Bernie Sanders Tattoos

Sanders Campaign Has Spent 50 Percent More Than Clinton In 2016 (and he still can't win)

Honduras arrests four suspects in killing of activist Caceres

Honduras arrests four suspects in killing of activist Caceres

File for PCO in WA State

Star Wars The Force Awakens recreated in Emoji

Who are "independents" really? Unbiased, critical thinkers?

Venezuela opposition submits 1.85 million signatures in recall effort

71% of Independents are either Conservative or 'Moderate.'

Bernie & Jane's 28th wedding anniversary is on May 28th so DONATE $28 on the 28th

A Simple 4 word Phrase the DNC needs to adopt for the November Elections....

Social Security releases proposed rule to strip gun rights from some beneficiaries

Social Security releases proposed rule to strip gun rights from some beneficiaries

Study ties Bibliotech use with success in school

DWS to 36 States: "You're Doing It Wrong."

Sanders Fights On for ‘the Strongest Progressive Agenda That Any Political Party Has Ever Seen’

Florida Jewish center attack plot thwarted, feds say

There Is A Hole In Bernie Sanders’ Strategy For Winning The Nomination

When will Bernie be held accountable for the deaths of 40 veterans?

Bank of North Dakota Soars Despite Oil Bust: A Blueprint for California?

Hillary on the role Bill might play in her administration

Scientists gave a camera to an octopus, and she only needed 3 tries to learn to use it.

Obvious flaw in Sanders' latest complaint about the "unfair" D process

Black in Algeria? Then You’d Better Be Muslim.

“Cool Girls” don’t like Hillary: What “Gone Girl” and “30 Rock” taught me....

Why wont the Clinton interests do better on a minimum wage?

Mandatory Monday Malloy Truthseeker Thread! Mr. Lonely! & Uncensored & Live & a

Judge rejects challenge to New York's 'closed primary' system

Mike Malloy - Bernie Sanders Takes On Democratic Party

Just, Wow. "...the sight of a young black man...."

FYI you are excluded from serving if

Mike Malloy - George Mason University Changes Name Over Scalia Tribute

Sorry, Bernie, but you can’t “contest” the Democratic Convention. Those aren’t the rules.

Bernie Sanders 1 on 1 WANE News

Bernie Sanders 1 on 1 WANE News

Some of the nutty ultra-Bernie online supporters are really entertaining.

Should I pluck the flowers from Thai Basil the same way I would with Sweet Italian Basil?

Telling Half the Story Isn’t Enough

The Democratic Party is a membership organization.

Sanders rally WANE News

Sanders rally WANE News

Lying and Cheating: Less than 1% has gone to state parties in Hillary's "joint fundraising" scheme

ESPN edits out Curt Schilling from 2004 Red Sox ALCS video

Hillary Clinton lead rivals handily in California, poll finds

Indiana Workers Union Vows To Support Bernie Sanders | MSNBC

Rachel Maddow just called out Bernie Sanders

Please recommend this post if you love Rachel Maddow's Democratic primary coverage

Bernie Sanders supporters strategizing to build a lasting progressive movement

Indiana Workers Union Vows To Support Bernie Sanders | MSNBC

Sanders’ “superior electability” is still a myth.

Cruz decided to engage pro-Trump protesters earlier today Indiana don't want you!

Jane Sanders: "If Bernie Loses, We'll Form a New Organization"

Bernie Sanders insists he can still win. The math says otherwise.

Hillary Clinton: "Happy to Work with Sen. Sanders" on What "Will Be a Progressive Platform"

Keeping Wall Street Speeches Secret Speaks Volumes About Hillary Clinton

Burlington Press to Bernie: It's over!

Hillary Clinton Raised More Than Bernie Sanders in April And Will Continue To Do So

Donate To Our Democratic Nominee, Hillary Clinton

CNN poll: Americans agree Clinton and Trump headed for a faceoff

Republicans have a massive electoral map problem that has nothing to do with Donald Trump

"Confessions of a Republican" Speaker from 1964 Ad Against Goldwater Next on Maddow

Venezuela opposition files 2 mn signatures for recall vote

Hillary Clinton vs. Donald Trump? The Winner Is…the Oligarchy

Turn on Rachel right fugging now for the interview

Why would I want Republicans/Independents choosing the Democratic nominee?

Obama’s Soaring Approval Rating Powers Democratic Optimism For 2016

‘Reaganomics to be blamed for rise of suicides in US’

I've never seen so many creative ways to describe "losing" as "winning" and "winning" as "losing".

when did recall elections really hit their stride?

Public bathrooms become battleground for transgender people, but Omaha offers some legal protections

Clinton fundraising leaves little for state parties

See this post in GD

Hillary raised more money only if you count the cash "borrowed" from state Dems.

Opinion: Bernie Sanders, the contest is over

Sen. Sanders rally pics

'Respectful discussion of issues will always be welcome on Democratic Underground.'

Trump’s ‘Woman Card’ Remark Drives $2.4 Million In Fundraising — For Hillary Clinton

Issueless Election 2016 - Where Are The Stories/Comparisons of Candidates?

The Neoliberal Model Comes Home to Roost in the United States — If We Let It

Jim Hightower on the Rise of Populism | Moyers & Company | 2014

State Party Officials Reportedly Displeased with Clinton-DNC 'Laundering' Scheme

Ol' Lorretta Lynn Clinton flips and flops again

Spurred in part by Omaha man's research, Marine Corps launches investigation into iconic Iwo Jima fl

Milwaukee family turns Paper Machinery Corp. over to employees in surprise move... too cool!

California Voter/Survey USA Poll: Trump 54% Cruz 20% Kasich 16%

Op Ed on Yesterday's Burlington [VT] Free Press Editorial Page:

Spurred in part by Omaha man's research, Marine Corps launches investigation into iconic Iwo Jima fl

Toddlers Have Shot at Least 23 People This Year

Sanya Reid Smith Explains Most of the Trade in Services 'Agreement's' Concepts - Lots of Info!

More people think Bernie Sanders has these key leadership traits than any top candidate

I predict that tomorrow in Indiana, Hillary will do substantially better ...

Why isn't Sanders releasing all his tax returns?

If primaries are only for club members

Mike Malloy - There´s No Way In Hell I´m Gonna Vote For Hillary Clinton

How much does it cost to run a primary?

For sale at a Trump rally today -

Rachel Maddow(Frequent bus victim): "Please send your hatemail to"

Uber sued again over drivers' employment status

At the risk of being alerted, banned, ....

Has anyone seen this?? Election Fraud Report Redacted Tonight

[ActBlue] You're making a difference -- daily update for 5-1-16

Hillary Clinton withholding donations from state parties, report says

SLAM: Elizabeth Warren and Hillary Tag Team on Trump

The reason I want Trumpy to win in Indiana is

New Panama Paper Dump Forthcoming

Cruz Delegates Waver as Trump Gains Momentum

"You cannot exploit a broken campaign finance system one day . . .

Largest US food producers ask Congress to shield lobbying activities

I just had a weird idea... What if Drumpf were to ask Sanders to run as his veep?

Bernie Sanders Tells Billionaires to "F*CK OFF"

Bernie Sanders Tells Billionaires to "F*CK OFF"

If Indiana Gets Its Way In Purvi Case, All Women Will Have To Defend Any Early Ended Pregnancy.

What's wrong with this picture? (Hint: Detroit today)

The People For BERNIE SANDERS 2016

The People For BERNIE SANDERS 2016

Trump: 'I'd have to think about' Cruz for Supreme Court

Loves me some Larry Wilmore!

Bernie Sanders - Imagine (Music by John Lennon)

Ted Cruz: Protester would get spanking at my house

Get in line this summer Duers TSA lines to take hours to get through in 2016

Bernie Sanders - Imagine (Music by John Lennon)

Conner Eldridge and Hillary Clinton.

Bernie - What makes us the Greatest Country in the World?

Please don't use disabled veterans in this war.

Just Ducky~

Bernie - What makes us the Greatest Country in the World?

FBI Chooses Secrecy Over Locking Up Criminals

pretty good article on voting irregularities

Bernie Sanders - What Patriotism!?

Republicans have a massive electoral map problem that has nothing to do with Trump

This is an actual, verifiable quote. It has been so verified. It was said in public.

Bernie Sanders - What Patriotism!?

How many of you would vote for Rand Paul over Hillary Clinton?

Cleveland delays tearing down gazebo where Tamir Rice killed

Poll: Supreme Court blockade eroding support for Grassley

Large Corporations Should Stop Lecturing Congress | Bernie Sanders

Large Corporations Should Stop Lecturing Congress | Bernie Sanders

Ted Cruz confronts Trump supporter in epic battle of words (VIDEO)

Attention Amazon Prime members: "The New Yorker Presents"

President Obama Says Donald Trump Is Not Equipped to Be President

Josh Marshall: Caucuses Are Just Voter ID Laws on Steroids

You can bet you ass if Bernie were leading in PDs, Hillary Camp would be screaming contested.

Just go ahead and contest the convention.

Delaware News - 5/2/2016

A message to deflated Bernie Sanders supporters worth hearing (VIDEO)

New California Poll (SurveyUSA): Clinton 57 - Sanders 38

Tennessee campus carry becomes law without Haslam signature

Wasserman-Schultz takes a swipe at Bernie: ‘Irony’ in Bernie Trying to Win Using Superdelegates

Maryland News - 5/2/2016

More Round-tailed Ground Squirrel Antics

Man accused in killing of camper, yoga teacher pleads guilty

Chelsea Clinton is 36

This is amazing. So much great artwork from so many great Berners- but this may be my favorite.

Cognitive dissonance...?

Colombia arrests Peru’s top drug lord in Medellin

Blankenship, sentenced to prison for deaths of 29 miners, joins Trump fans protesting Hillary

I think organized labor is being dis-invited from the party now officially:

Hillary to WV: WAIT! I DIDN'T MEAN I'LL PUT YOU OUT OF BUSINESS... I only meant I'd do it nicely...

Houston Office Market Melts Down

An honest criticism of Paul Thompson's email scandal thesis.

Judge orders release of refuge holdout Sean Anderson

US Manufacturing Sinks Deeper into Mire, Sep. 2009 evoked

Man Convicted of Brooklyn Murder Exonerated After 52 Years

The global economy is in bad shape and getting worse

Hillary Clinton apologizes for saying she'd put coal "out of business"

Question: Why did Hillary Work for Goldwater and NOT For Dr. Martin Luther King?

Superdelegates are ‘feeling heat’ – columnist

Superdelegates are ‘feeling heat’ – columnist

Keiser Report: Secrets of TTIP & TPP

Angry Woman In Walmart Throws A Fit Over Man Using Food Stamps

Two forms of woo finally being held to account...

Nevermind MineralMan's bogus Bernie pic with Anne V... THIS is what creepy looks like:


WA state: Pierce County did this yesterday!

FSU's Nobel-winning chemistry professor Kroto dies (co-discover of "buckyballs")

CNN Crushes Donald Trump By Repeating One Simple Three Letter Question

Frank Rich Needs To Hear From Some Of Us.

Bernie is playing by the rules. H camp: New rules now!!

Clinton And Sanders Spar Over Joint Fundraising Efforts

U.S., NATO Look to Combat an Aggressive Russia

Nailed it

Astronomers discover three habitable planets just 40 light years away

I wouldn't mind a Clinton dynasty if it meant we would never see a Republican President

DOJ: South Dakota long-term care system violates federal law

European Documents Show US is Aggressively trying to Gut the EU Precautionary Principle to Pass TTIP

Putting Racism on the Table: Robin DiAngelo on White Privilege

Sister: No charges against police in Virginia stun gun case

Ayelet Shaked: Israel's Minister of Annexation

Obama takes Supreme Court fight to Republican senators' home turf

TPP, TTIP: Eliminating Nations, Turning over the World Economy to the Mega-corporations.

If Hillary put her hands on another man's butt, DU would be up in arms

It's Most Likely Going to Be a Contested Convention!

Why the American Jewish Establishment Won’t Condemn the Occupation

Has Sanders flipped any superdelegates in recent weeks? Have any even indicated they might flip?

Former FBI agent pleads guilty to stealing $136,000 in drug proceeds

Florida News - 5/3/2016

Tallahassse high school crowns gay couple prom king and queen

So...where would you put your hand given 2 seconds to set up for a candid pic ?

Punky's Dilemma ~ Simon & Garfunkel

Colorado Supreme Court voids two city voter-approved fracking bans

And Ted; what do _you aspire to? An Oldie but a Goodie

Wrestling body revokes ex-House Speaker Hastert's awards

I just donated another $25 at 3:20 this morning!

Daily Holidays - May 3

For businesses backing HB2, privacy and religious freedom

Charlotte city manager wants 1% property tax increase to hire police

Scientists hit pay dirt in drilling of dinosaur-killing impact crater

Scientists hit pay dirt in drilling of dinosaur-killing impact crater

Voters down on HB2; Democrats Cooper and Stein lead in new poll

US stubbornness will end EU free trade deal warns France

French Euro 2016 team's English anthem criticised

Venezuelan Banker Given Asylum by US Found in Panama Papers

Venezuelan Banker Given Asylum by US Found in Panama Papers

Taxpayers Billed $800,000 A Year For Prayers In Congress

"You lost your stick, dude."

The price of solar power just fell 50% in 16 months – Dubai at $.0299/kWh!

South Carolina News - 5/3/2016

I would like to recommend an addition to the blogroll.

Why Won’t Hollywood Let Us See Our Best Black Actors?

Baltic leaders beg NATO for more protection against invasion from fascist Russia

The absolute insanity of the Democratic primary.

What time zone is Indiana in

Keeping Wall Street Speeches Secret Speaks Volumes About Hillary Clinton

"Chill, Dude... chill."

In 2008, why didn't HRC spend all summer 'contesting' the convention?

To those who say they can't vote for Hillary

The key flaws in Sanders' argument that he still has a path to the nomination:

American Serviceman Dies in Iraq Near Irbil

A State of Emergency has been declared in the City of Newburgh due to the discovery of a contaminant

Bernie you've lost it... in more ways than one.

PREDICTION: Senator Sanders will graciously call for the unanimous nomination of HRC


Target shopper confronts convicted video voyeur known for preying on women

Since 4/27, Arctic Sea Ice Loss 75,000 km2/day - We Have Never Seen This Rate Of Loss This Early

I'm Cat... Man.

Rachel Maddow Launches Epic Rant Against Bernie’s ‘Radical’ Convention Strategy (HRC GP)

***** Hot Off The Press National Poll *Clinton 54%(+2) Sanders 40% (-2) *****

Update Regarding RushIsRot

Hillary's racist joke about Ghandi

Sanders will be tied or ahead of Clinton at convention?,

Quick Quiz: when your VP nominee falls off a stage after introducing you, do you...

Rosario Dawson's epic endorsement of Bernie Sanders

Clinton approved $120M of Sandy Hook gun maker sales

The real obstacle to voter turnout in Democratic primaries? caucuses

Republicans have a massive electoral map problem that has nothing to do with Donald Trump

No proof that construction material used for ‘military purposes’ in Gaza, insists UN

Ok then, Let's spell it out for Hillary "Democrats"

A shout out to msanthrope! A truly charitable person!

Free Open source UFO Detector software that allows anyone to monitor the sky for UFOs

Burlington (Vt.) Free Press: 'Sen. Sanders cannot win this primary and there will be no revolution'

We should tax and tax and tax and tax and tax the 1% ...

Homeless Man Owes Government Over $110,000 In Fines For Being Homeless

Should Hillary ask Bernie to be the VP on the Democratic ticket...?

West Virginia News - 5/3/2016

I just read Trump has better favorability with independents.

Opinion: Time to unite the party ~ Burlington Press

Bernie Sanders’s Gift to His Party

BUSTED: Hypocrite Hillary Caught Hoarding 99 Percent of Funds Raised for State Parties

My plan to revise the primary system.

Poll: Majority of Democrats Want Sanders to Stay in Until Convention

RushIsRot has passed

Hillary and her supporters are going to rue the day

Indonesia police confiscate sex toy mistaken for 'angel'

Christian group admits to sending men into women's bathrooms to scare you into hating trans-people

“Maj. Brezler violated regulations by maintaining classified information on a personal laptop comput

Healthcare question

Prince Golytsin

The global economy is in bad shape and getting worse

Tuesday Toon Roundup 1- Cards

Clinton Surrogate: Hillary will win the blue collar vote. Really?

Seymour Hersh Says Hillary Approved Sending Libya's Sarin To Syrian Rebels

Tuesday Toon Roundup 2: Clowns

Tuesday Toon Roundup 3: The Rest

"What I said was totally out of context from what I meant..."

Time catching up to Serena and Roger?

Airstrike destroys hospital in Syria

Another fake outrage. Do you understand basic anatomy? His hand was on her lower back.

FDR's "Four Freedoms" speech emphasized that the freedoms were for "everywhere in the world".

Oklahoma's forced sodomy oversight

330 Million Affected By Indian Heat, 255,953 Villages Short Of Water, 119 F, 87 Dead By 3/31/16

Woman filmed berating dad using ‘food stamps’ — and accusing him of being a Bernie supporter

Whom Gods Destroy, They First Make Mad: Bill Gates' Confusion & "Energy Miracles"

Keiser Report: Secrets of TTIP & TPP

Well, I guess I'm going to have to ask yall about traffic in Atlanta again.

The behavior of many people is beginning to remind me of a certain movie...

As Climate Disruption Advances, UN Warns: "The Future Is Happening Now"

It is exam week in Indiana this week.

Faster Than Expected: S. Florida Reef Erosion Projected For 2050-60 Has Already Arrived

Virginia News - Poor Jim Filmore can't even get elected as delegate to RNC

Apparently, if you are a right-wing child molester, you're not a pervert, you're the victim

Y'all like math, right?

In Race for London Mayor, Donald Trump’s Anti-Muslim Playbook Seems to Be Failing for Zac Goldsmith

WTF?? Lee and Rafael?

......So the Rude Pundit read the Sulli-piece...

Should Dole Get the Corporate Death Penalty?

Electric Cars Could Wreak Havoc on Oil Markets Within a Decade

Poppy looks like a heavy steroid patient

So Bernie needs 54 out of 83 delegates in Indiana tonight, right?...

Politico Exposes Clinton Campaign ‘Money-Laundering’ Scheme

Leave all those historic Confederacy statues stand.

TTIP...New Docs Reveal It's Worse Than You Know

"...Hillary's election is absolutely essential to the future of this nation and the world."

State Party Officials Reportedly Displeased with Clinton-DNC 'Laundering' Scheme

For faster train travel, Amtrak wants to fix railway bottlenecks in Maryland

GOP goals: build pipeline, throw out the Mexicans, revoke healthcare

Kirk Cameron, douche

How to Get a Gun in India

Check out this video by Connor Eldridge who is running against John Boozman.

Couple charged in straw purchase of AK-47 at Farm Show Complex

Apparently in the minds of Sanders and his supporters a Clinton voter

Feral cats are answering the call to duty as American cities take on growing rat problems

Gun walk prompts counter-protests

Bernie's 'Contested' Convention vs. Hillary's Convention Bid in 2008

Today's Google Doodle celebrates National Teachers Day!


Remember when Bernie was going to overtake Hillary in the National polls?

Clinton raised $2.4 million off Trump's "women's card" comment in the last three days in April

'Hamilton' Leads Tony Award Nominations, Sets Record With 16 Nods

Happy Teachers Week, everyone!

Conservative Group 'Testing' Target By Sending Men To Women's Bathrooms

"Watch it, Bozo. We're already making a list for after Trump's elected." Come CAPTION Roger Stone!!!

Happy Teachers Day! Today's Google Doodle celebrates teachers:

Edward Snowden article in, The Guardian - US Edition

Looks like HRC is coming in for a hard landing tonight

Edge Plays the Sistine... rock on!

Rahm Emanuel’s political machine is overwhelmingly white. Here’s why it matters — even beyond Chicag

Look at the Darker Side of Free-Trade Policy

The establishment is lying about the 9/11 report

Do they call baseball games in the 7th inning because one team is ahead?

Rahm Emanuel got free sports tickets, travel perks from wealthy friends

CNN National Poll: Clinton 51% Sanders: 43%

If Bernie gets under 64% of the vote in Indiana, the percentage he needs in CA goes up.

Patriotic Millionaires: For My Country

Let's go, Indiana!!

Patriotic Millionaires: For My Country

Tearful unemployed father confronts Hillary about plan to 'put the coal industry out of business'


Regarding the "Camp Weathervane" meme

"Hecklers are great . . . for dog meat!" . . . Please come CAPTION Ted Cruz!!!!

People call this Group a echo chamber. This is what a echo chamber really is and it should scare

Charlie Munger says we're starting to look like Japan, and that could be trouble

I swear to god I'm using local business first for my household repair issues

Maybe It Is Time We Cut Their Compensation Packages | Bernie Sanders

Maybe It Is Time We Cut Their Compensation Packages | Bernie Sanders

Married 60 Year Old School Board Official, Thinks He's Chatting With a 12 Year Old Boy

Is there any doubt about Clintons stand on climate change?

Chris Christie Vetoes Equal Pay Bill, Calling It ‘Business Unfriendly’

FDR: International cooperation on which enduring peace must be based is not a one-way street.

What would happen if a World Leader questioned a"President Trump's" masculinity?

A cautionary note about messages of hope

Oh, look at that. Judge rules NY results can be certified without interference

Reassessing American ‘Heroes’

J. R. R. Tolkien vs George R. R. Martin. Epic Rap Battles of History. Season 5

The behavior of many people is beginning to remind me of a certain movie...

Old white men love them some Trump

Charlie Munger says we're starting to look (economically) like Japan, and that could be trouble

Colorado Dems admit mistake: cost Bernie key delegate (told HRC but not Bernie or public)

If Trump reaches the GE he will be unstoppable

My thoughts on the abortion issue...

Misty Copeland is excited for girls to see a Barbie with ‘muscles and brown skin’

Y'all know I'm one of the biggest asshole Hillary supporters...

West Virginia Governor Endorses Hillary Clinton

A story from a RW white supremacist holocaust denying site has 100 recs

I proudly stand with West Virginia governor, Earl Ray Tomblin, in his endorsement of Hillary Clinton

Zach Wahls & his sister to develop "The Woman Card" - a deck of playing cards

How do you even explain this, let alone fix it?

Even Republicans Are Disgusted by The Republican Party

Italian court rules food theft 'not a crime' if hungry

Clintonism SCREWED the Democrats: How Bill, Hillary & DLC Gutted Progressivism

Hillary Clinton Confronted on Coal Comments, Williamson, WV, May 2: 'It Was A Misstatement'

"Hillary's "Greatest Influence" on Military Issues, a Fox News Pundit Who Makes Money From War"

What we learned about online nonprobability polls

Donald Trump accused Ted Cruz's dad of being involved in the JFK assassination.

"1 Star, 3 Exoplanets: The Potentially Habitable TRAPPIST-1 System in Images"

All They Care About is Their Bottom Line | Bernie Sanders

Terms of Service

All They Care About is Their Bottom Line | Bernie Sanders

Ted Cruz on MSNBC right now.... WHOA *Team HRC is watching this for sure!

The Kids Get It!

Electronic Machines w/ No Paper Trail

Independents swept in the Republican Revolution of 2010

The phrase "birds of a feather" applies to hawks and chickens, too

Ideological leanings of U.S. Supreme Court justices ~ Wikipedia (HRC GROUP)

Former 49ers Player Dana Stubblefield Charged With Raping Disabled Woman

California: More Than One-Third of Bay Area Residents Ready to Leave

Bernie Can Win With Help of Party Insiders

RIP Afeni Shakur, Tupac's mom

Republicans have a massive electoral map problem that has nothing to do with Donald Trump

Latest Huffpost/Pollster National chart shows Hillary (51%) climbing and Bernie (41%) sinking.

Corrupt Ex-Massey Energy CEO Don Blankenship 'Protesting' Outside WV Clinton Rally

We Demand Real Change | Bernie Sanders

We Demand Real Change | Bernie Sanders

DNC chairwoman: If up to me, I’d exclude independents from Dem primaries

Pic Of The Moment: PSA: Be On The Lookout For Creepy People Going Into The Wrong Public Bathroom!

Anybody looking for a gig as a sisterwife?

Pulling Back Canadian Censorship of Science

The Real #Newsroom - Bern Edition - 5.3.2016 - #IndianaPrimary

The Real #Newsroom - Bern Edition - 5.3.2016 - #IndianaPrimary

APPALACHIA: BERNIE ROCKS THE HOUSE 6,000 in Huntington, West Virginia: May 10 WV Primary

Is a profit-first philosophy in retail pharmacy compromising working conditions and patient care?

Is Donald Trump playing the "Man-Card"?

I am actually crying right now.

End Corporate Ownership of Prisons | Bernie Sanders

End Corporate Ownership of Prisons | Bernie Sanders

Trump 41%, Clinton 39% Rasmussen... n/t

How do you create more business investment? Raise taxes on businesses

Bill Clinton's World Tra_de Organization Services Deal

Remember when DUers recognized Rasmussen as the Republican leaning craphole it is?

Nothing is as important as climate change

Somebody needs to make a political cartoon

I'm SOOO fuckin' proud of my governor, Rick Scott

Promise | Bernie Sanders

Promise | Bernie Sanders

** Posted to the African-American Group ***

Bernie should negotiate to abolish the superdelegate system in return for dropping out.

Jimmy Kimmel lays into Sarah Palin, climate deniers

I don't get why there is outrage over the Rasmussen poll....

Well, that was fun

Arizona News - 5/3/2016

Pedestrian struck and killed by hijacked Metrobus in D.C., police say

Indiana goes to Hillary: 75% of the early vote is over 50 and It's finals week at public schools.

Harvard IOP Youth Vote Study: Dems Outnumber Indies for first time in 5 years

Christians Shout at Target Customers to Protest Trans-Inclusive Bathrooms

Observation: Drivers with Dogs in the their laps

South Dakota Wrongly Puts Thousands in Nursing Homes, Government Says

Truck gets stuck in downtown underpas

Americans..."five times likelier to die during a human-extinction event than in a car crash"

Princeton professor's resume of 'failures' goes viral

I voted!

Johnson & Johnson to pay $55M in second talc-powder cancer lawsuit

Man Interrogates Woman For Using Women’s Restroom

Why has there been an exodus of black residents from West Coast liberal hubs?

live stream ammo hearing for CA

Do not pour boiling water into the merchandise

Republicans have a massive electoral map problem that has nothing to do with Trump

It's On in Indiana

Elmer Gantry decries Biff Tannen presidency

Lack Of Living Wills For Too-Big-To-Fail Banks Defended By Hedge Fund Executive - TMFS Sketch Comedy

if sanders gets less than 65% today in Indiania....huge LOSS

In case you ever wondered????

Trump running mate? Not so fast, says Sen. Susan Collins

Shkreli's Lawyers Say Turing Founder May Face More Charges

Sellus Wilder For Senate 2016 Kentucky

Sellus Wilder For Senate 2016 Kentucky

Red flag for the Gulf of Maine: Water slowly changing color

Sustainability is destroying the Earth

Let's do this again. Contested convention doesn't mean what you think it means

I'll bet Cruz wishes he had attacked Trump months ago instead of playing it cute and

Can anyone identify the "free agent" super delegates and their current position on who they favor?

Ok then, Let's spell it out for Sanders "Democrats"

"This man isn't your stereotypical Bernie bro"

Nevada News - 5/3/2016

Chelsea Clinton Stumps For Her Mom During Lexington Visit

Lesson for U.S./China over disputed island in South China Sea

I admire Hillary willingness to mingle with voters, sitting with them for one-on-one conversations

Lets do the same in Congress!!

Prsident Obama watching Alison Krauss - "When You Say Nothing At All" (Performance at the White Hous

Hillary Clinton should not apologize about shutting down coal mining.

it's difficult to get a man to understand something when his cash flow depends on his not understand

Jeremy Scahill: Clinton is Legendary Hawk, But Sanders Shouldn't Get Pass on Role in Regime Change

Ardent atheist - and staunch Zionist

Win or lose, THANK YOU SEN. SANDERS and your supporters!

Hungry and Frightened: Famine in Ethiopia 2016

This election has changed me more than any other.

Long-time Iowa farm cartoonist fired after creating this cartoon

Armed Texas good Samaritan shot dead in front of wife attempting citizen’s arrest of fleeing gunman

Sellus Wilder @ Bernie Rally in Pikeville, Kentucky (parts 1, 2)

Report: Religious freedom deteriorating around the world

I had lunch with a Member of Congress from Arizona today...

Mr. Fish on the Donald

Boston Globe: Bernie Sanders declares war on reality (HRC GP)

Sellus Wilder @ Bernie Rally in Pikeville, Kentucky (parts 1, 2)

Email from Bernie: This will anger you...

I'm proud to have voted for Bernie Sanders today.

Bill Donohue wants to let child molestors off the hook...


'The Handmaid's Tale' Is Going To Be A TV Series In 2017

Why Do Hillary Supporters Lose Their Minds When You Criticize Her?

Inaction on climate dims space future

"This has been true for a while now, but it's worth repeating: Clinton does not need to win

"This has been true for a while now, but it's worth repeating: Clinton does not need to win

I have a question

Merrill can't come up with proof of fraud in documentary on Alabama voter ID law

Democracy Now! (May 3): Scahill and Greenwald discuss drone warfare with Amy Goodman

Final Ad Spending in Indiana: Bernie- 1.6 million to Hillary- $0

Ten Things White People Need To Quit Saying

Data show California’s deepening housing crisis

Listen to every single word,yes once again,listen...........

Gay student banned from receiving award by Catholic high school

One of the most chilling details in Naomi Klein's "The Shock Doctrine",

I found a car crash analogy to Cruzies campaign LOL

Another problem for Hillary in a potential Hillary vs. Donald election

FYI: Last BS FEC Filing here: (HRC GP)

HRC Group: VIDEO - Sanders gets confronted on his Super Delegate hypocrisy

An interesting DIY solar power project at Kickstarter

Just Say No to Corporate Rule

Lets Skip the Primaries...

Latinos and Democrats hide in safe houses as right-wing sheriff uses mob rule to take over Texas tow

I Still Believe

Oh, those Saudi women - more concessions . when will it end???

This fugging ReTHUG dunce Katrina Pierson just said we still haven't seen Obama's college records

Kitten-Ping Pong Ball - Bong, bong, bong

Ted Cruz's presser during the Indiana Primary today

Largest US food producers ask Congress to shield lobbying activities

MoveOn under attack by Donald Trump

Europe’s Border Guards

New Meme: Party insiders will fix the election for Sanders because of independents.

Cruz Calls Trump 'Serial Philanderer' and 'Pathological Liar' in Blistering Attack

Bernie can win with help of super delegates who don't want to lose their ass in the General Election

Hearing Lake County is having a very high turnout. HRC Room.

Here's a video of those rescued lions checking out their new home

Should Courts Get to Define Religion?

Utah News - 5/3/2016

As much as I know what's going on in cable news, it still never ceases to amaze just...

Bernie Sanders Rally in Lexington KY tomorrow?

Indianapolis Press Conference | Bernie Sanders

Argentine TV station uses Trump to promote soccer match

Indianapolis Press Conference | Bernie Sanders

Donald Trump is obsessed with race-baiting conspiracy theories

Vladimir Putin’s Newest Target: Children

Market Spiral Pricing of Cancer Drugs

Wait... I thought Bernie was the devil for not helping down ballot candidates

Missing 11-year-old girl found dead near Shiprock

And meanwhile, in Indiana, people are walking into polling places

An Australian POV: "What So Many Americans Can’t Grasp About Bernie Sanders"

She came to me, said she knew me Said she'd known me a long time PIX

Bernie Sanders @ Indianapolis Monument Circle

Bernie Sanders @ Indianapolis Monument Circle

Bernie Sanders’s Gift to His Party

Bernie Sanders rallies supporters on Monument Circle, Indianapolis, Indiana

Van Jones says Trump will win, unless...PLEASE everybody watch this!

Obama knows not Bernie's positions

Bernie Sanders rallies supporters on Monument Circle, Indianapolis, Indiana

The "L" Word Again: MN DFL Party LAUNDERS Money For Clinton Campaign...

Some Indiana Counties Closed Two-Thirds Of Their Polling Places Ahead Of Record Turnout Election Day

A nervous breakdown in the body politic

"In the realm of illogical, self-serving, hypocritical, intellectually dishonest political arguments

At noon turnout high in Allen County

An interesting DIY solar power project at Kickstarter

A 2008 Timeline -- How Clinton behaved in May and June -- She did NOT go "graciously"

Meanwhile, in the bathroom at Target....

An "independent" is someone who had trouble deciding between McCain/Palin and Obama/Biden, right?

Basic knife skills

NY Times: Final ad spending in Indiana

I just got back from voting. I, my father, and my uncle (who has been a career

This Is What a Republican Attack on Bernie Sanders Would Look Like

Morning Consult Poll: After Fiorina surprise, 24% of Repubs "less likely" for Cruz, 51% don't care

Yes, Bernie Sanders can force a contested convention.

Burlingame Anti-Trump Protester Accused of Punching Deputies

Trump responds to Hitler comparison

HRC GROUP. Hillary Speaking from Ohio NOW on CSPAN

HRC GROUP. TUESDAY, MAY 3, 2016 Bring on the General Election! Clinton Leads Trump by 13 Points i

HRC stumps in Ashland, KY; collects home-made "woman cards" from homeschoolers :)

Indiana: 5 things you should know on Election Day...

Early voting numbers from Indiana. HRC ROOM

Clinton: ‘I’m really focused on moving into the general election’

What's for Dinner, Tues., May 3, 2016

Al Giordano on some BS supporters Ready

No five star restaurant for Bernie...

Idaho AG charges two in Integrity in Government PAC

Caucuses are run by parties. Primaries are run by states.

Tampa Bay Times purchases main competitor, the Tampa Tribune

So I remember that Poppy Bush, Gerald Ford and Richard Nixon all not

GMU: Are conservative donors bullying this public university? Its president says no.

Cruz Calls Trump 'Serial Philanderer' and 'Pathological Liar'

What trait is most valuable in a president?

German Anti-Immigrant Leader Fined Over Facebook Post

Va. Supreme Court recognizes unmarried same-sex couples are legal too

Former top McCain aide: I’ll vote for Clinton over Trump -CNN~05/03/16 03:31 PM (HRC-GP)

PHOTO: It's almost like you can FEEL Carly's twin laser beams slicing through Ted's skull.

US defense secretary says Russia is 'nuclear saber-rattling'

What do you consider to be the most serious issues facing the nation?

I never thought I'd applaud

Trump bizarrely links Cruz’s father to JFK assassin; Cruz goes ballistic

Sean Astin speaking for Hillary in Indiana.

Sheldon Silver is going to be a guest of the federal government.

A university moved to fire a professor after he defended a student’s right to debate gay marriage.

As States Expand Gun Rights, the Police Object.

Hey, so why can't Hillary serve for eight years and then Bernie runs/wins in 2024?

Obama Thanks His 5th Grade Teacher on Teacher Appreciation Day

So my congressman endorsed Trump

HISSY FIT! Cruz: "You sound like a broken record. You've already asked a question."

Got some bad news to share with everyone.

WV poll: Sanders leading 45% to 37%, Clinton 52/41 with liberals..Sanders 36/19 with conservatives

Hoosier Here- Voted Bernie but ready to Vote Hillary

Kornacki interviews NYT Jill Abramsom on HRC's Honesty (HRC Group)

Mimicking the ingenuity of nature

Turnout for Republicans higher than in 2008 (Allen County - Fort Wayne)

Why I doubt Trump will moderate all that much in the general.

Sheldon Silver, Ex-New York Assembly Speaker, Gets 12-Year Prison Sentence

APPALACHIA: BERNIE ROCKS THE HOUSE 6,000 in Huntington, West Virginia: May 10 WV Primary

Let's spell it out for Bernie fans: HRC has won 12.2 miln votes, Trump: 10.1 miln, Bernie: 9.1 miln

Israeli who burned Palestinian teen alive sentenced to life in prison

Dominoes fall: Vanishing Arctic ice shifts jet stream, which melts Greenland glaciers

Connecticut State Legislature Passes Gun Control Bill Aimed at Protecting Victims of Domestic Violen

The NRA accuses Hillary of using "hateful rhetoric." Their website is full of articles

Introducing the Emergency Climate Movement

Have you seen/heard Radiohead's new Burn The Witch?

Buffett Chides College for Not Cutting Tuition as Endowment Grew

Prosecutors Say More Charges Against Martin Shkreli Likely

This may shock you: Hillary Clinton is fundamentally honest | Jill Abramson - The Guardian

Don't know if I can post my time in purgatory

Bernie is going to win Indiana.

25 Things You Don't Know About Bernie Sanders

Former top McCain aide: I’ll vote for Clinton over Trump

Google autonomous car project teams with FiatChrysler

For the sake of unity, can we agree the Democratic Party is better than Republican Party? Nt

Sanders claim of a contested violates Democratic National Convention rule nr 13

Auto Sales Stay Hot In April; Honda And Nissan Break Records

Trump will go through 3 VP's between the convention and election

Subway Revenue Drops as It Closes Hundreds of U.S. Restaurants

Stand with Sen. Warren: Tell Congress to simplify tax filing

Ted Cruz: Rupert Murdoch ‘Turned Fox News Into the Donald Trump Network’

Indiana Exit Poll: Trump towers over Cruz with late deciders, 72% want wall

Exit polls will mean nothing.. Indiana had such a huge early vote..

Though he's more of a country fan, ND retiree plows field in tribute to Prince

Clinton's refusal to quit in 2008 haunts her in 2016

Early Indiana Exit Polls per MSNBC Chyrons (Updated)

DNC strategy

LIVE: Indiana Democratic Primary Exit Poll Analysis

Colombia seizes assets of paramilitary death squad collaborators

Colombia seizes assets of paramilitary death squad collaborators

(Poll) Democrats already having buyers remorse.

Prominent Democratic Consultants Sign Up to Defeat Single Payer in Colorado

Let's be clear, regardless of the outcome tonight,

Cleanup Week is a tempting time for hoarders trying to curb addiction

Updated OP: Prominent Democratic Consultants Sign Up to Defeat Single Payer in Colorado

The Statute of Limitations for sexual crimes against children needs to be abolished in America.

A brand new Lucy Lu portrait just for youse.

ABC News Exit poll results for Indiana

The Successor

New Record Set for World's Cheapest Solar, Now Undercutting Coal

Kornacki reported from first exit polls of Democrats in Indiana:

STOCK MARKET WATCH -- Wednesday, 4 May 2016

Ok before we are at each other's proverbial throats tonight

Here's the full Andrea Mitchell interview with Hillary.

Trump is pouring gasoline on the Party and setting it on fire

Hillary Clinton Says It’s About ‘Hard Choices’ But Admits Many of Her Choices Were Wrong

Where to watch the county-by-county results tonight:

Bolivia Denounces Destabilization Campaign by Opposition

I think the Clinton camp has adopted another Bernie position: abolition of delegates?

What the Communications Workers Strike is About | Bernie Sanders

What the Communications Workers Strike is About | Bernie Sanders

For those of you who have Camp Weathervane on ignore and didn't see this

Michael Bloomberg: Why Safe Spaces Are Terrible Mistakes

Almost got one off the bucket list

NuScale Announces Roadmap for SMR Operation at Idaho Site by 2024

Georgia governor to veto 'campus-carry' concealed gun bill

Greater protection for African Elephants. Please help.

Greater protection for African Elephants. Please help.

Greater protection for African Elephants. Please help.

Total ad money spent in Indiana: Bernie, $1.6 million. Hillary: $0.0

A Clinton Admin will likely operate more or less the same as the Obama Admin has.

Donald Trump is too gullible to be president

Bernie Sanders: ‘Our Goal Is To Win Pledged Delegates’

Realtor ballot measure would negate ‘affordable’ units in San Francisco

Juvenile Solitary Confinement Has Been Banned In L.A. County

NTSB cites ‘ineffective inspection and maintenance practices’ as causes of fatal 2015 Metro smoke...

PSA: First results will be coming in at 6pm tonight.

Voter says her signature was forged on petition to place GOP Senate candidate Jon Keyser on ballot

My friend the Red Witch at the Beltane party on Sunday.

Donald Trump, Baby Boomer

Fort McMurray homes destroyed as wildfire forces mandatory evacuations orders

North Dakota man plows Prince's symbol in farm field

Denying Transgender People Bathroom Access Is Linked to Suicide

Indiana Exit Poll: Trump Towers Over Cruz With Late Deciders, 72% Want Wall

Suspect in Florida slayings ex-sheriff's nephew

Anti-Abortion Activist Tried to Intimidate Doctor, Lawyer Says

=*=LIVE @ 7PM: Bernie Sanders Louisville Kentucky Rally 5-3-2016 =*=

=*=LIVE @ 7PM: Bernie Sanders Louisville Kentucky Rally 5-3-2016 =*=

Tulsi Gabbard and Jeff Merkley in Portland


Networks holding off call until all Indiana polls close (7 PM Eastern)

Bernie Sanders : How Change Happens

Bernie Sanders : How Change Happens

(Chicago) Transgender CPS students to use bathroom that matches gender ID

Jimmy Kimmel comedy Spot has more Climate scientists than ABC news all year

Update: Bernie closing / Hillary now leading Indiana 51-49%...

Utah to Temporarily Stop Enforcing Law in 'Deadpool' Case

Feds drop bid to shut down Harborside in big win for pot industry

Nate Silver: despite polls, Indiana demographics and open primary favor Sanders.

Georgia governor vetoes campus carry bill

Cannabis on the salad bar?

New Paradigms for SETI: Cosmic Archeology

Results so far: 5% in, 56-44 Clinton.

After ‘The Biggest Loser,’ Their Bodies Fought to Regain Weight

Almost identical same percentages in IN at 2% that I have seen in many of the other states.

El Salvador Arresting Negotiators of Now Defunct Gang Treaty

Nine years of censorship

Wesley Clark: Next President May Face Another Nuclear Arms Race With Russia.

Indiana Exit Poll:Should the next President continue President Obama's policies, or be more liberal?

Let's Play What Time Does The Election Get Called For President Clinton

White House poised to create first monument to gay rights

Trumpy takes early lead

Best site to see the live numbers/results coming in??

Jane Sanders : 'Bernie Has Brought People In' To Democratic Party | MSNBC

I wish I had the onions to call Indiana myself but I don't.However I give you this

Jane Sanders : 'Bernie Has Brought People In' To Democratic Party | MSNBC

In case you are avoiding gd-p, my post there

HRC is not even in Indiana

What are the signs that someone is growing pot in their house?

Israeli Arabs more optimistic about two-state solution than Arabs living in the WB and Gaza

I'm calling Indiana for Trump

For those DU'ers who Cut the Cable Cord: Indiana Primary Results as they come in from NYT:

I'm keeping the telly off and staying out of GD-P for tonight!!!!

Pentagon Condemns House Benghazi Committee’s Wasteful “Speculative” Investigation

Why hasn't anyone asked T rump about divestment

Hillary Campaign in Sparks NV hired hard drive destruction company for $187.

Hillary kicking ass in Indiana.

Trump ahead by 15 thousand

Strong Majority of Democratic Voters Agree: Sanders Should Fight to the End

16% of IN voters choosing at last minute? I am now officially for closed primaries, LOL.

538 Indiana ..interesting Hillary news

Jehovah's Witnesses have released this bizarre, disturbing video teaching kids to be homophobic

Trumpy ahead by 20K

This disease has killed a million trees in California, and scientists say it’s basically unstoppable

BSers Already Giving Up on IN in GD-P

[ActBlue] You're making a difference -- daily update FOR 5-2-16

Rolling Stone: What Should We Make of the Hillary Clinton Indictment Speculation?


Once a Clinton stronghold, Appalachia now Trump country

Eugenia Cheng Makes Math a Piece of Cake.

As the Religious Right Forces the Gospel Into Public Schools, Some Parents Are Opting to Homeschool

Indiana Primary: "Too early to call"

CNN Calls Indiana for Trump

Trump wins Indiana--Cruz is finished

Indiana exit polls say Bernie wins by 12 points

Move to Return Grizzly Bears to California Will Be an Uphill Push

When do you think Obama will release the 28 pages?

Did #NobodyLikesTedCruz Forget to Make Speech BEFORE Indiana Was Called?

Bernie can NO LONGER mathematically win the nomination - it's over

East Of Palo Alto’s Eden: Race And The Formation Of Silicon Valley

all the news outlets called it for trump the moment the polls closed

JRR Tolkien's annotated Middle-earth map at Bodleian

Suck it Cruz

Bitmicro in Fremont, CA fined for paying workers less than $2 an hour

I'm calling Indiana for Hillary n/t

Would Bernie be tough enough to fight Trump in a GE?

I admit it ... I'm a softie ... There is ONE Bernie supporter here that I admire and respect.


Court Files Show Bid to Tar Slain Honduran Activist Caceres

Court Files Show Bid to Tar Slain Honduran Activist Caceres

If Clinton Wins, She Plans To Put Bill To Work on Trade: “He’s Gotta Be In Charge Of This”

A Challenge, a Seven Point Plan: For Bernie’s most Devout, most Suicidal Fans!

watching the returns, is anyone running other than trump and cruz?

NYT: Clinton Campaign Preparing for Loss in Indiana:

As a Hillary supporter, I DO support the 1%!

The Latest: Deal Also Vetoes Bill Allowing Weapons in Church

NBC/CBS/ABC project Sanders the winner in Indiana(edit)

Bwaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah hahahahahaha - the chosen one was not chosen

Researchers: Medical Errors Now Third Leading Cause Of Death In United States

Is There a Reason HRC Is Not Staying in Indiana for Her Victory Speech?

White House poised to create first monument to gay rights

I just don't get it.....

Now, WATCH LIVESTREAM, Bernie Speaking in Louisville, KY (Tues. May 17, KENTUCKY, OREGON Primaries)

Is this about the primaries?

Venezuela Govt Says Police Killed Most Wanted Gang Leader

Bernie just took the lead in Indiana!

Bernie up by 27 votes now (now 13010)

Former Top John McCain Aide Says He’s Backing Hillary Clinton Over Donald Trump

Who is this "we" which Sanders is referring to in the speech he is giving right now?

Who is this "we" which Sanders is referring to in the speech he is giving right now?

Some links on problems with electronic voting machines

Kansan Who Went With Kids to Oregon Standoff Arrested

Oops, meant to post this here earlier

Buzz grows in Dem circles over Kaine as Clinton VP

Clinton by 30% in First Lake County (Gary) Precincts

tweety is still really pissed over trump and the JFK mess

Nathan Deal vetoed campus concealed carry bill

Johnson & Johnson Case: Can Talcum Powder Really Cause Cancer?

Michelle Obama on NCIS tonight at 8:00 EDT

Exit Polls show Bernie ahead 55% to 45% in Indiana: Benchmark Politics.

You gotta hand it to Sanders.

29,000 evacuated from Fort McMurray, Alberta as wildfire spreads

Breaking News!

Seven big banks settle U.S. rate-rigging lawsuit for $324 million

OK guys, educate me. What happens If Bernie wins the Indy?

Bernie and his small donors shattered an accepted "truth".

Bernie leading 51% to Hillary 49%!

To those saying that Bernie still winning states doesn't matter...remember 1980

High school football player faces 70 criminal charges after yearbook prank goes horribly wron

Forget Hillary. Also forget Bernie. If you are voting for a person, frankly, you're doing it wrong.

How can MSM know the % of vote reported, that would indicate the know the TOTAL # of votes..explain?

Sanders will win Indianapolis by 4 pts oops by 7 or 8