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Been said forever that Dems/Libs look inside for root causes, wingnuts look outside blaming others.

MAHER and others are demonized here for hosting (some) wingnuts, but I've never seen him *agree* with them. I don't watch him much, only by YouTube clips, this only recently, so before I get gigged about this, no I don't have extensive exposure to him. Granted, he's at the Libertarian edge of us. But he goes toe to toe with the wingnut guests and fairly much faces them down.

I don't "discuss" with wingnuts. I attack them out of hand. Yet I claim one of my core values to be freedom of thought. I know that converting others to my/our side, away from their own ingrained beliefs, is mostly impossible. I also regard most who are in the way-Middle or Third-way as being wishy-washy, namby-pamby and sometimes even collaborating with The Enemy.

I saw the MAHER clip the morning after on YouTube, and as usual I expected and got from it somewhat uncomfortable truth, that sensation of admitting to myself that I agree with something outside of my "acceptable" thinking.

I'm a blue collar veteran type, yet am a 3rd generation Democratic Party individual. I check off all the boxes of the Democratic general agenda: Civil rights, civil liberties, social justice, stewardship of the planet.

I'm also a mass or mess of contradictions. I have differed with my Dem/Lib boomer generation. If I get specific, the flaming will ensue here. That's the point about MAHER (and others sort of like him), that we (not him) in our own party know we have to tippy-toe about some things.

I don't believe that those who claim to be "true" Democrats, yet spend more time attacking fellow DU members than they do wingnuts, are deep thinkers or living up to their claims of ideological purity.

****** ON EDIT: And kudos to the O.P. for bravery in hosting a successful discussion on MAHER.

My letter to the editor - and to GD?

Questions continue about Donald Trump: What if he never concedes? What if he refuses to leave? What if he goes berserk with Executive Orders, Pardons himself, or unleashes the Proud Boys?

The answer is: It doesn’t matter. His choices are to find some grace or sulk his way out or be frogmarched out, it’s up to him.

Whatever part of the country has moved on. No individual or group can stop the moving on of any kind.

We are free to go back to our daily lives without the dread of what the tweet at dawn was or keep adding to the list of his latest outrageous publicity stunts. It doesn’t matter, but actually never mattered.

If it comes down to the frogmarch, no big deal. It will just be his last stunt and we can rubberneck it briefly and immediately move on past it.

This is not gloating or mean spiritedness and there’s no expectation that his followers will move on constructively. Even if they choose to wreak havoc, it might be suspected that they will have their own secret relief.

***** ON EDIT, thanks to DUer TigressDem. For avatar, delete space after https------- https ://i.postimg.cc/68jGcfVg/Bumper10.jpg

Bigger, delete space after https-------- https ://i.postimg.cc/rwKrV1p0/Bumper8.jpg

Me, too - or rather, did away with the Distress flag. I was going to wait for the Inaugural, but

this is close enough even if SHITLER goes berserk, in which case he will be frogmarched!

Also changed my Signature line to: The Democratic agenda: Civil Rights, civil liberties, social justice, stewardship of the planet. No personality is above it.

From: The *autocrat* type: BERLUSCONI/DRUMPF/PUTIN. BELIEVE him (threats/bluster/”jokes”). Ignore little signs of normality. Institutions won’t save you, he doesn’t observe norms.

But am keeping my "bumper" sticker. The CLINTON-KAINE stayed from conviction but also to irritate the SHITLER flying monkeys, and when time came I stressed over taking it down for BIDEN-HARRIS, tried out layering and that worked:

Here'tis: Joy REID's magnificent rant:: "you 70 million said all of that was fine, do more of that"

Note: I broke up the body of her rant into "paragraphs" for easier reading. In the link they count as one dense paragraph.


Joy Reid: Trump Supporters Decided All of His ‘Cruelty’ Was Fine, So ‘Yeah, We’re Gonna Dunk on Y’all’ Today

.... Reid revealed she was in the middle of getting a covid test when she heard the news and said she subsequently walked to Times Square. “And honestly, it’s like a new day, Lawrence. It’s like the city has woken up from a slumber.”

Reid then responded to people saying “don’t dunk on Trump supporters today.”

“Sorry, that’s what people are going to do,” she said. ....

“We have had four years of mass deaths. 240,000 of our fellow Americans have died and Donald Trump was vowing to kill another several million of us through herd immunity. He didn’t care about the dead. He ripped 1,000 children from their parents without a second thought.

Stephen Miller has been installed in the White House for four years practicing open, vile racism and xenophobia and making it policy. Millions of federal employees, hundreds of thousands of them have been barred from talking about systemic racism. They reversed policy on everything that was designed to make this country more fair for people like me. My immigrant family members, none of them could have come here under the rules that they placed against people who are Black and brown and coming from countries that are majority Muslim. They banned Muslim travelers, grandmas that wanted to see their grandkids.

The cruelty, the hideousness of this administration. The awfulness. They were threatening to take away my friends that are gay, that are married, and invalidate their marriages. They put in a Supreme Court that threatened to take away our health care, our desperately-needed health care. All my kids except one would be off my health care if they accomplished that.

They are threatening our lives. They don’t mind if we die. So I’m sorry if the Trump supporters are feeling a little sad this morning, but, yes, we’re going to dunk on y’all, because you 70 million people said all of that was fine, do more of that, just give me a few more pennies in tax cuts if you don’t make a million dollars a year. You didn’t even really get anything. All you got was cruelty towards people like me.”

“This country is awake. We finally feel like we can breathe,” Reid added. ....


For today's GOOD FEELINGS: Prayer for My Daughter, W.B. Yeats


A Prayer for my Daughter
W. B. Yeats - 1865-1939

Once more the storm is howling, and half hid
Under this cradle-hood and coverlid
My child sleeps on. There is no obstacle
But Gregory's wood and one bare hill
Whereby the haystack- and roof-levelling wind,
Bred on the Atlantic, can be stayed;
And for an hour I have walked and prayed
Because of the great gloom that is in my mind.

I have walked and prayed for this young child an hour
And heard the sea-wind scream upon the tower,
And under the arches of the bridge, and scream
In the elms above the flooded stream;
Imagining in excited reverie
That the future years had come,
Dancing to a frenzied drum,
Out of the murderous innocence of the sea.

May she be granted beauty and yet not
Beauty to make a stranger's eye distraught,
Or hers before a looking-glass, for such,
Being made beautiful overmuch,
Consider beauty a sufficient end,
Lose natural kindness and maybe
The heart-revealing intimacy
That chooses right, and never find a friend.

Helen being chosen found life flat and dull
And later had much trouble from a fool,
While that great Queen, that rose out of the spray,
Being fatherless could have her way
Yet chose a bandy-leggèd smith for man.
It's certain that fine women eat
A crazy salad with their meat
Whereby the Horn of Plenty is undone.

In courtesy I'd have her chiefly learned;
Hearts are not had as a gift but hearts are earned
By those that are not entirely beautiful;
Yet many, that have played the fool
For beauty's very self, has charm made wise,
And many a poor man that has roved,
Loved and thought himself beloved,
From a glad kindness cannot take his eyes.

May she become a flourishing hidden tree
That all her thoughts may like the linnet be,
And have no business but dispensing round
Their magnanimities of sound,
Nor but in merriment begin a chase,
Nor but in merriment a quarrel.
O may she live like some green laurel
Rooted in one dear perpetual place.

My mind, because the minds that I have loved,
The sort of beauty that I have approved,
Prosper but little, has dried up of late,
Yet knows that to be choked with hate
May well be of all evil chances chief.
If there's no hatred in a mind
Assault and battery of the wind
Can never tear the linnet from the leaf.

An intellectual hatred is the worst,
So let her think opinions are accursed.
Have I not seen the loveliest woman born
Out of the mouth of Plenty's horn,
Because of her opinionated mind
Barter that horn and every good
By quiet natures understood
For an old bellows full of angry wind?

Considering that, all hatred driven hence,
The soul recovers radical innocence

And learns at last that it is self-delighting,
Self-appeasing, self-affrighting,
And that its own sweet will is Heaven's will;
She can, though every face should scowl
And every windy quarter howl
Or every bellows burst, be happy still.

And may her bridegroom bring her to a house
Where all's accustomed, ceremonious;
For arrogance and hatred are the wares
Peddled in the thoroughfares.
How but in custom and in ceremony
Are innocence and beauty born?
Ceremony's a name for the rich horn,
And custom for the spreading laurel tree.


Update: Substituted OBAMA proclamation on Vietnam instead of the SHITLER one

In our previous episode, the saga was how it took over six months to get a simple task of receiving my 50th anniversary Vietnam pin fulfilled by my Blue Dog congresscritter, while the REAL Democratic congressman in the neighboring District had awarded the pins to his constituents six months ago. I kept in contact for status with unfortunately/my critter’s staffer all that time and I finally got the pin a week ago, but inside was a Proclamation with SHITLER’s scrawl on it, and the staffer said he would mail one to me the next working day with OBAMA's signature, fine. In tonight’s episode, after waiting another week without its arrival, I realized I could find it on the ‘net, and did so. So to tie the bow on it, I thanked the staffer again but with shade thrown about Blue Dogs. Here’s the whole exchange:

*********FIRST I said:
(Name of staffer), keeping in contact for status over the past six months of the Vietnam lapel pin was like a virtual friendship, and my thanks for your getting the job done are sincere. But what are (virtual) friends for if we don't say the real stuff? So here goes:
So, just letting you know that after I had focused on the pin itself, it dawned on me that the "Proclamation" included was from TRUMP with his scrawl on it. I removed it from the materials and will give it the Speaker PELOSI treatment of the State of the Union paper. I realize that it's a formality like having the picture of whoever the president is at Federal facilities.
We military when on active duty are not political, but I'm a veteran civilian now, and am a total, life-long Democratic voter. I'm happy so far that the Congressman has been saying the Democratic things and voting that way. Keep it up. Thanks again.

Good afternoon Mr. ,
Thank you for the kind words. If you prefer I believe we have proclamation signed by former President Obama, that I could send you? This initiative was first signed during his administration. Absolutely I can mail you that. It will be in the mail tomorrow!

*******I SAID:
Gosh, (Staffer), I didn't expect this extra step and don't want to put you to more trouble by sending the OBAMA proclamation. If you can do it without much trouble, I'll take it. My main interest since the Congressman first ran and took office is that he continue to be a steady Democrat. Anyway, thanks again, (Staffer). Once a Marine (him/staffer), always part of the Navy Department (haha).

***********HE REPLIED:
Congressman is a steady blue dog democrat who continues to push for cooperation on both sides of the aisle for legislation that will help veterans and better this nation. I don’t just say that as lip service. I get to see how and why he votes and have regular discussions with him when I staff him for events and meetings. Not a problem at all! Semper Fidelis! (Signed, “Name of staffer”)

*******SO I REPLIED:
(name of staffer), I was able to find the OBAMA proclamation on the ‘net, https://veterans.nebraska.gov/sites/veterans.nebraska.gov/files/doc/PrezProc.pdf and printed it out on a suitably heavy paper and laminated it. Thanks again to YOU for completing the mission and may the Congressman evolve into dropping the "Blue Dog" part all the way to the FDR/HST/LBJ DemocratIC mainstream. I'll be standing Watch and voting!


Excellent. I realize you're reacting to today's specifics, but Nanny-ism is a general thing.

I woke up today ready to post a rant on your same topic here, after yesterday a member stepped into a thread that had been going well and squashed the whole mood with a personal peeve request.

We are (what, 500,00?) members strong, meaning individuals of 500K traits and tastes, ranging across all levels of age, education, emotional maturity, capacities of tolerance and temperament. And on top of that we are Democrats in our Democratic coalition of sub-groups, each sub-group having its own separate #1 agenda topic, with some sub-groups actually antagonistic to other sub-groups.

There’s also the distinction of DU’s “Group” rules vs the General discussions, where Groups can dictate. And we have Purists who claim more entitlement over the rest of everybody, going on to Nanny the board, but more than that, to: *BULLY.* Because they claim to more Right based on feeling that their own being aggrieved is more intense than anybody else’s. It’s the zealotry of the Converted, like they own the board.

To treat somebody as an equal is not to pander to the sub-group. Pandering is not equality, it is covert patronizing/condescension. And having realized one’s integrity of their sub-group doesn’t mean getting special privileges.

Here’s what might be my Signature line after the pestilence of SHITER is out of our lives:

**********NOTE: This thread is *NOT* about what YOU want, so *NO* diverting it in that direction, no flaming, nannying, gatekeeping, bullying, suppression of Democratic virtues of free thought and expression, outraged self-righteousness, and other such vociferous incivility.

Got my Vietnam commemorative lapel pin with a "proclamation" by SHITLER - ripped it like the Speaker

Besides the *fifty years* of "appreciation," it took an extra six months to get it from my Blue Dog congresscritter. I first heard there was such a pin over six months ago when the real Dem in the district next-door was in the news delivering the pins over there. So because of turf, had to get mine under the special graces of *my* critter. Leaving out the copious details besides the first quarantine, my status contacts with the staffer became a sort of virtual friendship, with all the postponements - no, the pin could NOT be mailed or picked up at the local office by me, had to give the critter his veterans photo op.

Well, finally the ceremonial delivery was held with all options of drive-through with masks, in-person with masks, streaming video, or snail mail of the pin. I chose snail mail.

Well, I thought the mailing could happen anytime but no, it had to be AFTER the ceremony. Fine. So I thought 2-3 days arrival, *no*!1 The staffer said there was a delay in getting "the package" together (huh?) so would be a week or so.

Well, I was expecting just the lapel pin, but no, here arrived a letter from the congresscritter under separate cover, plus a large plastic envelop containing not only the tiny pin, but a letter sized vinyl holder with a certificate and some kind of other letter-sized commemoration deal. Fine.

I was focused on the pin and that the certificate left off my middle initial and only glanced at the other letter-sized deal, and went to do chores. Later, I looked things over again and something CAUGHT MY EYE: A *scrawl* at the bottom of the letter thing. My mind ZOOMED to those obnoxious signing photo-ops with SHITLER scrawling himself ridiculously, and screwing my eyes to check it, sure enough, it was a "proclamation from the potus" with his freaking scrawl at the bottom.

Besides the revulsion of HIM in everything about him, it was an insult that Poor Little Bone Spurs had the gall to send a piece of toilet paper to me. I immediately removed it from the holder and will rip it up after showing it to people like Speaker PELOSI with his so-called state of the union thing. Am going to tell the staffer. Feast your eyes:

Mayor Pete just put a dunce cap on Meegin McCAIN

After she spent the preceding part of the show doing her usual running interference for SHITLER, this time about his ignorant climate-denial that was coupled with his offensive mocking, she tried to sycophant Pete by saying that he had proved inclusion and fearlessness by making appearances at "unorthodox" venues like the Faux Propaganda Network. She even smiled, in contrast to her earlier and usual scowling and eye-rolling, even coquetishly.

And she went on to slither-in her off-topic subterfuge of running interference for SHITLER, saying that in the vein of "unorthodox" venues, what did he think of encouraging BIDEN to take up the Joe ROGAN offer for a debate, which SHITLER had already enthused about.

Pete just let her weave her own trap and then said that, yes, he himself did practice inclusivity, but that the whole usefulness of debates depends on having a neutral moderator (unsaid: not ROGAN who says he will vote for SHITLER or anybody *but* BIDEN on the grounds of "dementia" ), that we have an entire commission with the purpose of fair procedures --- and that MOST OF ALL, why did SHITLER want to fuel this nonentity of a topic compared to the whole large section of the country burning up, could it be to suppress the serious issues??????!1 COULD it be?

**********NOTE: This thread is *NOT* about ROGAN, so *NO* diverting it in that direction, no flaming, nannying, gatekeeping, bullying, suppression of Democratic virtues of free thought and expression, outraged self-righteousness, and other such vociferous incivility.

When the bell tolls, it can toll *unexpectedly*

What set this off on the *unexpected* side of bells was Soph0571's thread https://www.democraticunderground.com/10181403983 , wherein she touched on it. But best vibes to her SO and her, and admiration for both and for her stalwart humor under the circumstances.

******** So nostalgia grows fonder ever the further back in time it reaches, and a decade after my 4 yrs stint in the Navy I started to get misty about it forgetting how I counted the days while in it. Details here and there looking better. One was about the Ship's Bell, especially on my smaller first ship where it was more prominent, and then at a flea market or second hand “antique” store, there was a small brass bell with a figure or animal of some kind as a handle, and that started the collection mania going. And going and going. And a few people would bring me one from their tours. I like only brass or other metal ones, and I graciously accepted glass and China ones until the benefactors departed when I would re-gift those.

Anyway, I don’t even have a count of how many there are, at least fifty, and several years ago reached the point of NO MORE BELLS, but Collectors out there know that there’s always ONE MORE MUST HAVE.

First up here is the *actual* ship’s bell that inspired my craze. The Popeye shows how I used a bell I didn’t like to put a Popeye PIN on it. Then there’s the clapper-LESS bell, for use in *striking* it with a mallet or soft drum stick. And as for the outside big ranch bell, I haven’t rung it since SHITLER took power and expect to ring it starting, hopefully, on November 3 or thereabouts.

**********BUT the theme is the *UNEXPECTED* side of bells, as Soph0571 broached. As can be seen from the dust on them in the pics, my bells basically just sit on the shelf. But when the collecting was new, I was focused on the WELCOME side of bell ringing, thinking everybody felt that way, until these three episodes taught me something.

EPISODE 1: For a short period I took one or another of the bells with me to Happy Hour and when the bartender was at the other end of the bar or otherwise slow to come around, I would ring my bell and for a few times at different places, everybody laughed and had a cheery old time. Until at this one place, where the bartender was originally from another country, after the first couple of times came to me politely yet deadly earnestly to ask me not to ring it. She said that in her country of origin, a bell was used at school, that she hated school and bells, so please stop. I didn’t take it seriously, and a bit later an elderly customer took up the place next to me and waited overly long for the bartender to come, and I took out my bell and said to him, “Here, ring this!1” He did. And boy did the bartender respond!1 She rushed over directly to me and I thought she was going to jump over the bar to strangle me, saying “If you ring that damned thing ONE MORE TIME…!1”

EPISODE 2: So when I first acquired the big ranch bell and hung it in the tree, a friend visited and I was showing her around and when we got to the bell, I rang it smartly, the way it should be rung, smartly with disciplined vigor. Then suddenly the neighbor fellow next door came *TEARING* from around the corner of his house like with his hair on fire!1 When he saw us just standing there, he pulled himself up short, let his hair fire go out and walked back, head down pondering.

EPISODE 3: In one of those browsing stores full of miscellaneous goods and knickknacks and whatever, there were only the sales clerk busy in a back corner and me in the place. I browsed and browsed and finally found something and went to the front station to pay. The clerk didn’t notice me standing waiting. There was a DESK BELL on the station. But I had learned my lesson about bells, so just kept waiting for the clerk, who finally saw me and came rushing up, saying, “Sir, why didn’t you ring the bell?!1” I said, ruefully, “No, no… no problem!1”

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