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Gender: Male
Hometown: North Dakota
Home country: US of A
Current location: Kansas City MO
Member since: 2001
Number of posts: 25,592

About Me

It does not matter where in the political spectrum one adheres. The same rules of right and wrong, good and evil applies to everyone. Our greatest danger of extinction comes from those that think the rules do not apply to them. www.timws.com

Journal Archives

Because our government says it is legal, though operating almost in total secret, it is OK with you?

The world wide spying that is. Whatever they do with your information is fine with you? The current and past administrations love people like you, that allows them to do whatever they want, with impunity, because the government says it is OK?
Read the 4th Amendment. How does that read to you? I don't see anything there about "...if it so pleases the government".

Article IV

The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

How does that jive with the wholesale hoovering and storing of everyone's personal communications?
Most of our "papers" now a days are in electronic form on our computers. Our computers are some of our personal effects.
Where is the probable cause for the wholesale hoovering of our private communications? Show me a warrant that has my name on it and the crimes I am suspected of. Where is/are the warrant with your name on it and the crimes you are suspected of committing?
You are not going to find any, because they don't exist. All you will find are secret, rubber stamped, blanket warrants, rubber stamped by secret courts, covering most any and everything.
How does all this blanket spying on us citizens jive with the Constitution and this being a supposed free country?

There are principles involved. Truth and facts.

When those principles are violated, when we are lied and spun too, when they violate their oath to uphold the Constitution, we all have a duty to call them on that.
Principles should be held to a higher level than any one person or assemblage. Our nation, our group, our party, right or wrong, doesn't cut it when our leaders are engaged in self-centered actions that hurt the rest of us.


There are those that do think we need to curtail our civil rights to be safe.
There are many are right here on DU, that are trying to tell us we need to curtail our civil rights, by trying to convince us that the wholesale hoovering of our electronic communications, is for our own good and the national security is at stake.
No, it ain't. We as a country have been making our own enemies for far too long to buy into that song and dance.

I'd say that that depends on what that someone reveled.

Exposing the wholesale spying by our government, the gathering of all the secret electronic communication, of the general public. 'Hoovering' being a very good descriptive adjective of the unconstitutional gathering and storing of the citizens private communications. No one can deny that Edward Snowden didn't expose just that. In any case, he did get it in the public conscience. How can that not be good?

And if Snowden actually had nothing to expose, then why hasn't this died down and gone away yet? Why does what is coming out, just keep getting worse. If he had nothing, this should been yesterdays news already. Even Zimmerman at its height, could not swamp out what Snowden exposed. So yeah, Snowden does have something big.

I do suspect that those that keep buying the government explanations, hook, line and sinker, without question, and regurgitating the talking points, trying to diminish and down play, the full extent of our government's latest over reach, are being something other than truthful and up front, as to what and who they really are. Surely they can't be that slow witted. Not after all this time.
It's OK because it is "legal"? Stop insulting our intelligence.


Seeing the support for the 3rd Way, DINO's, DLC and other Republican so-called Lite is counter productive for any politically Center or Left of center people, i.e., actual Democrats.
When you see the excuse that any Democrat is better than a Republican, all that is, is excusing right-wing Democrats for dragging the party ever more to the Right. In the grand scheme of things,the (D) or (R) by the name, should matter less than their policies. Too many people on both sides, don't have the capability of thinking past the letter by the name and so we have the current situation. So we keep supporting and excusing evermore Right-wing Democrats, without holding their "feet to the fire".
Those of us that do and are critical of the current policies, get attacked for not supporting Democrats. Well, maybe these "Democrats" we aren't properly supporting, are supporting too many Right-wing policies.

If corporations are persons, then yes, the 4th Amendment applies to them.

You are trying to have it both ways. The government can not just go look at anything they want to. They have to have probable cause. That probable cause is glaringly missing in the data hoovering, warrants or no warrants. That data does belong to he phone company. That information is private information. That information is NOT public information. Also, contained within that meta data hoovered up are the private communications of individuals, i.e., you and me. That electronic data is being collected in real time. What crime are we suspected of to be monitored as we are? So no matter how you slice and dice it, the 4th Amendment is being violated.

The FICA has engaged in huge mission creep since its inception. The rules are not the same as then as now. Also that "because we did it" does not make it any more right or correct or legal, than if "They did it". Wrong is still wrong. Illegal is still illegal. And the Constitution is still being violated.

That meta data belongs to the Internet provider/phone company, etc.

Those companies are all corporations. As the Supreme Court has ruled, corporations are persons. That meta data was taken under duress by the government from these persons. So your argument fails because it was the personal property of the legal person/entity our government took it from.

The worst gang I worry about are those in Congress with a (R) by their names and their enablers

that have a (D) by theirs.
You know, the 3rd Way, DLC, DINO's and other slightly more honest denizens than the Public Enemy #1, better known as the Republicans.

The Left side, what is left of it, is hobbled by the fact that truth, facts and reality matter.

The Right side, not nearly so much. The Right keeps making up their own reality, truth and facts. And their sheeple keep buying it, no matter how outrageous it sounds, or is.

That is what us Left of Center people are having to put up with. And then there are the 3rd Way, DLC, DINO's and other wayward, self-proclaimed Democrats employing the conservative's non-reality to the detriment of us all.

Maybe, just maybe, when enough people realize that people in foreign countries are human, just like

ourselves, with the same feelings, same love for their children and family as we, then maybe, just maybe people might refuse to fight and kill in "our leaders" declared and undeclared wars.
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