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Gender: Male
Home country: England
Member since: 2003 before July 6th
Number of posts: 13,508

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Spot on - "a choiceless choice" due to the nature of our belief in exceptionalism

> Because we are so invested in our 10,000 year old story of human exceptionalism,
> we will not make any choice that might result in such a decline.

> Without fossil fuels we can't maintain our existing population or the civilization that
> supports us. We need that much energy to support this level of organization and
> activity for this many people. Without fossil fuel we would have only 13% of the energy
> we currently enjoy - assuming we could even maintain industrial-scale hydro and
> nuclear power without oil or gas.

> So what do we do? Well, we probably just muddle along doing whatever we think
> might be useful, as we usually do.

Three excellent points there (albeit re-arranged from your original order).

"We" (i.e., the leaders of the nations in our global society) will deliberately choose
not to take appropriate action to reduce or offset the medium-term future crash
because of the risk of losing money and/or power in the very short term.

"We" will justify this pathetic inaction - ironically wasting even more resources
with each pointless exotic jolly for petty politicians - by thinly-disguised prayers
to the gods of "economy", "progress" and "future technology" whilst knowing full well
that every deferral, every obstacle, every call for "additional studies" not only brings
the crunch point closer (by maintaining BAU) but makes the pain more intense
and longer-lasting (by avoiding preparation).

You have it about face ...

> and if they don't focus on jobs first, there will not
> be an opportunity to work on climate change.

If you don't focus on climate change, jobs are most definitely the *least* of your concerns.

> In two years there is a midterm election, and if the focus is not on jobs, we will lose

So, immediately after an election is still too close to the next election to focus on the environment.

Thanks for stating the reason why we are in so much shit.

Basically, the strategy of the typical American political "activist" is to keep running
around in the hamster wheel until you drop dead. Fucking wonderful.

Epitaph for modern civilization:
"We just couldn't give a fuck about anything that interrupts our non-negotiable way of life."

Yet another example of the anthropocene discontinuity ...

... to add to the unnaturally "weathered" mountain tops, the large-scale trace fossils
from mineral extraction, the unexpectedly deep layer of bioturbated sediments
and the unnatural deposition of everything from aluminium through iron oxides
up to long-chain polymers.

Future geologists will posit that the planet was hit by a meteorite comprised
mainly of iron, concrete & plastic.

Excellent post.

The only thing that's been saving him from an "accident" is the need to keep
him from being a martyr - and yes, to the State-department warriors here,
that includes the "Why didn't the US snatch him from the street in the last
few years" option as well as the more traditional methods.

> Make no mistake, he angered the Gods. Sophocles himself couldn't have
> written a better script.

Not just the hubris of angering the modern gods but also the Cassandra effect
thanks to the ongoing undermining of his character. It's amazing how powerful
the word "rape" is in feeding the "no smoke without fire" bullshit artists. I guess
that it's only because they can't get hold of any computer that is demonstrably
Assange's that they haven't tried the "child porn images" frame as well. (Maybe
that's next month's installment?)

In an age where blatantly obvious scientific evidence is waved away for petty
political reasons, when a state will outlaw the fact of sea level rise, when the
refusal of a long-termexpert to doctor his evidence leads to his murder ...
how many of the ignorant sheep are really going to pay attention to the facts
of gross financial & political corruption, to war crimes by their own countries or
to admissions that serious global turmoil is not only ahead but proceeding
according to plan?

It's so much easier to just change channels to find comfort pap for their
underused minds, to place their faith in the con-men who fleece them for every
penny (in order to maintain their own luxury lifestyles) and to obey their
uncaring "leaders" by dutifully baying after every shiny distraction that is
thrown in front of them.

... and I've been there with you ...

... bemoaning the stupidity of the "geoengineering will save us" team ...

The trouble with it is that regardless of its gross failings, its uncertainty and its
suicidal gambling

1) It appeals to the "Deus Ex Machina" crowd and to the non-believers who have
the same philosophical approach ("Deus ex humana"?).

2) It appeals to the uber-technophilia of the Kurzweilian crowd.

3) It *really* appeals to the "Business As Usual" crowd as not only does it allow
them to continue maximising profit without any of that boring environmental
protection/preservation rubbish but also provides another opportunity for
profit from a new field (again, without any penalty until after they've retired/died).

As a result, GeoStupidity Inc will keep coming back, keep being supported in
"new initiatives" and keep blocking out genuine action.

Ah, you missed .6 after all ...

>> I read it the first time on this thread (and on every other thread I've seen it) ...
>> ... and had no need to comment on that post so didn't reply there.

... but, just to keep you happy, ...

.2>> We have more than enough installed natural gas plants to make the transition
.2>> to renewables if we decide to just build out all of our renewable alternative
.2>> and I'd prefer that we pursue that path with all haste.

I totally agree with that sentence/wish/desire/hope.

.2>> Natural gas plants make it technologically far easier to integrate large amounts
.2>> of variable energy sources like wind and solar, and, because of their low capital
.2>> cost and relatively high fuel costs they also are easier to economically displace
.2>> as more and more renewables come online.

I not only agree with that sentence but believe that it simply does not go far enough:
Without natural gas plants, it is almost impossible to integrate large amounts of variable
energy sources like wind and solar until the grid can be changed to suit.

If your claim about having "more than enough installed natural gas plants to make
the transition to renewables" is true then there is no need to build additional gas plants.

Result: Happy bunnies all around as you will be happy, I will be happy and the planet
(and all occupants) will benefit from the transition to renewables.

If there is a need to build additional gas plants then your claim is not true.

Result: Sad bunnies all around ... except for certain marketing firms who now have the
opportunity to make money pretending that this unnecessary additional gas burning
is beneficial to the planet (and all occupants).

Given the comment originally noted (in .1) from the article originally posted (in .0)
>>> "Meanwhile, the gas industry has been lobbying heavily, arguing that gas
>>> offers a cheap alternative to renewables, despite being a fossil fuel."

It makes me suspicious that the "happy bunny" option is not, in fact, true.

Hope this helps!

That is one of my concerns about ice-core data ...

... it can "miss" periods of sudden heat ...

As you are only identifying very small layers in a small cross-section, there isn't
the scope to recognise a minor unconformity - only the gross changes - and as
these brief heating events will coincide across corresponding sites around the
globe, it will be taken as "the recognised reference pattern" rather than the tragic
anomaly that it is.

Compare this to the (geologically) short-term damage that modern humans
have done not only to the fossil record but to the geological stratifications
over large parts of the globe: unnatural extraction & transporation of an incredibly
wide range of materials (from finely distributed minerals to gross earth-shifting
operations), scouring of large areas of land & seabed, and the addition of layers
of long-term pollution.

Future geologists will look back and deduce that the extinction event was caused
by global tsunamis triggered by the catastrophic impact of a meteorite constisting
mainly of coal mixed with radioactive plastic.
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