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You're arguing a strawman and avoiding the actual content of my post.

I never claim that both parties are the same. That is a convenient strawman often used by corporate posters to divert from the *actual* main idea in a post.

In fact, I have repeatedly pointed out how the parties deliberately diverge on social issues that are important to people but which the One Percent could not care less about, in order to blackmail people into voting for the predatory economic, war, and police state agenda that the One Percent DO care about and that the parties deliberately share.

Of course, you knew that already. You might even have seen my most recent post about it here:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=6231259
Yes, that's certainly the Lesser of Two Evils Scam that corporatists in both parties keep using on us.

Red vs. Blue = Oligarchy Theater for the masses.

Mass spying on Americans? Both parties support it.
Handing the internet to corporations? Both parties support it.
Austerity for the masses? Both parties support it.
Cutting social safety nets? Both parties support it.
Corporatists in the cabinet? Both parties support it.
Tolling our interstate highways? Both parties support it.
Corporate education policy? Both parties support it.
Bank bailouts? Both parties support it.
Ignoring the trillions stashed overseas? Both parties support it.
Trans-Pacific Job/Wage Killing Secret Agreement? Both parties support it.
TISA corporate overlord agreement? Both parties support it.
Drilling and fracking? Both parties support it.
Wars on medical marijuana instead of corrupt banks? Both parties support it.
Deregulation of the food industry? Both parties support it.
GMO's? Both parties support it.
Privatization of the TVA? Both parties support it.
Immunity for telecoms? Both parties support it.
"Looking forward" and letting war criminals off the hook? Both parties support it.
Deciding torturers are patriots? Both parties support it.
Militarized police and assaults on protesters? Both parties support it.
Indefinite detention? Both parties support it.
Drone wars and kill lists? Both parties support it.
Targeting of journalists and whistleblowers? Both parties support it.
Private prisons replacing public prisons? Both parties support it.
Unions? Both parties view them with contempt.
Trillion dollar increase in nuclear weapons. Both parties support it.
New war in Iraq. Both parties support it.
New war in Syria. Both parties support it.
Carpet bombing of captive population in Gaza. Both parties support it.
Selling off swaths of the Gulf of Mexico for drilling? Both parties support it.
Drilling along the Atlantic Coast? Both parties support it.

BUT, we are reminded by sneering corporate Democrats, Republicans will do all of this to us, too, PLUS inflict transvaginal ultrasounds!

What a vicious scam by both parties to justify relentless, predatory evil. To demand that we vote for our own sellout and exploitation and the dismantling of our democracy itself.

So...now that we've determined what my point wasn't, let's post again what I actually did write:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=6261687

We live in an oligarchy, not a democracy.

Corporatists don't care which party wins, as long as the corporate agenda continues.

IMO both corporate parties want a Republican in next time. The Democratic Party is deliberately losing elections (Recall the DCCC "Accept Doom" email campaign) and deliberately alienating its base. Even the party mouthpieces are not just shoving Hillary down our throats, but being ostentatiously rude and obnoxious about it. The propaganda topic of the day everywhere is whether people will still vote for Hillary. I think they want people to abandon ship.

Why? Because six years of predatory Wall Street policies coming from a supposedly Democratic president have woken too many people in the country up to the fact that the parties are corrupt.

Once they have the Republican in office, I predict all the corporate Democrats will suddenly start pretending to oppose all these vicious corporate policies they have been shoving down our throats for eight years. The horrible policies will continue, and they will put on a good Kabuki show of being the vehement, albeit impotent, opposition party.

That way, the corporatists hope, the people will be reassured that we really still do have a democracy. We can stop all this silly talk about oligarchy and corruption. People will believe that the Democratic Party stands for their interests, and we can all go back to pretending that the only problem we have is that Republicans are in office and we need to get the corporate Democrats back in.

I don't think that's unclear at all.

Yes, it matters to *people* who wins elections. We are deliberately blackmailed and manipulated to support parties based on the the important social issues I mentioned (YOU DON'T WANT TO LOSE ABORTION RIGHTS, DO YOU?), but we are also relentlessly propagandized to hate the other team so that we will never unite with them to oppose the predatory economic, war, and police state agenda that the parties do share. So yes, the *people* are trained, and blackmailed, to consider party immensely important.

The oligarchs care only about putting into power whichever party can most easily, in the current political climate, continue implementing the predatory corporate agenda (economic, war, police state policies) that the two parties share.

The entrenchment and expansion of that predatory Bush agenda for two more terms, under a Democratic president who ran on Hope and Change, has awakened people to how corrupt our system has truly become. That both parties are working for Wall Street against our interests in these areas, whatever the other differences between the parties may be. That we have oligarchy rather than democracy. And that it is going to take more than voting for one of the corrupt parties to fix it.

That's the political climate in which decisions are being made about which party can most easily carry forward the next steps of the corporate takeover of this nation. And for the reasons I explained in my post, I think it will be very useful for the corporate elite to have Republicans back in power again, and corporate Democrats pretending to oppose them.

I think the behavior of corporate Democrats lately toward their own base suggests that I'm right. They're *trying* to suppress the 2016 Democratic vote.

Posted by woo me with science | Sun Feb 22, 2015, 04:42 PM (2 replies)

A corporate Trojan horse serving Wall Street donors.

Ran on one agenda, governs on another. Complicit in entrenching and expanding the Bush policy agenda/corporate coup of America which is systematically dismantling democratic protections including our free press, right to protest, due process...and replacing it with a disturbingly secret, increasingly authoritarian, profit-centered corporate government that engages in mass surveillance and mass campaigns of propaganda targeted at its own citizens to minimize and deny the changes listed above.

A dangerous presidency reflecting the severe corruption of our government, both parties, by corporate money flooding Washington, and the continuation of the passage of our nation from democratic representative government into bipartisan authoritarian oligarchy.

Posted by woo me with science | Mon Feb 16, 2015, 09:33 PM (0 replies)

Corporatists are not the Democrats and Republicans they pretend to be.

They are fascists wearing democracy costumes.

Posted by woo me with science | Sun Feb 15, 2015, 09:52 PM (1 replies)

K&R Yep, that's certainly the "lesser of two evils" scam

that corporatists in both parties keep using on us.

Red vs. Blue = Oligarchy Theater for the masses.

Mass spying on Americans? Both parties support it.
Handing the internet to corporations? Both parties support it.
Austerity for the masses? Both parties support it.
Cutting social safety nets? Both parties support it.
Corporatists in the cabinet? Both parties support it.
Tolling our interstate highways? Both parties support it.
Corporate education policy? Both parties support it.
Bank bailouts? Both parties support it.
Ignoring the trillions stashed overseas? Both parties support it.
Trans-Pacific Job/Wage Killing Secret Agreement? Both parties support it.
TISA corporate overlord agreement? Both parties support it.
Drilling and fracking? Both parties support it.
Wars on medical marijuana instead of corrupt banks? Both parties support it.
Deregulation of the food industry? Both parties support it.
GMO's? Both parties support it.
Privatization of the TVA? Both parties support it.
Immunity for telecoms? Both parties support it.
"Looking forward" and letting war criminals off the hook? Both parties support it.
Deciding torturers are patriots? Both parties support it.
Militarized police and assaults on protesters? Both parties support it.
Indefinite detention? Both parties support it.
Drone wars and kill lists? Both parties support it.
Targeting of journalists and whistleblowers? Both parties support it.
Private prisons replacing public prisons? Both parties support it.
Unions? Both parties view them with contempt.
Trillion dollar increase in nuclear weapons. Both parties support it.
New war in Iraq. Both parties support it.
New war in Syria. Both parties support it.
Carpet bombing of captive population in Gaza. Both parties support it.
Selling off swaths of the Gulf of Mexico for drilling? Both parties support it.
Drilling along the Atlantic Coast? Both parties support it.

BUT, we are reminded by sneering corporate Democrats, Republicans will do all of this to us, too, PLUS inflict transvaginal ultrasounds!

What a vicious scam by both parties to justify relentless, predatory evil. To demand that we vote for our own sellout and exploitation and the dismantling of our democracy itself.

You know what I've decided? At a certain point it becomes necessary to say no to deliberate evil. To refuse to bow to the scam and the manipulation and refuse to endorse evil, period. *Even* when it is waving its claws and protesting that there's even scarier evil over there.

Posted by woo me with science | Sun Feb 15, 2015, 09:36 PM (14 replies)

+100000 Bernie is the only potential candidate telling the truth about oligarchy.

That is why I believe the PTB would stop at nothing, and I mean nothing, to marginalize and if necessary end his candidacy.

Elizabeth Warren's message on economics is important and welcome. But even her policy agenda does not clearly challenge the wars and the surveillance/police state that are dismantling democracy in this nation.

We don't just need to be more economically comfortable within an authoritarian state. We need restoration of our democracy and our Bill of Rights.

We need reform of our elections. We need restoration of our civil liberties. We need an end to the surveillance state and the militarization of our police forces, and the private prison industry, and the endless wars for profit.

Posted by woo me with science | Sun Feb 15, 2015, 06:18 PM (2 replies)

Well, that's certainly the "lesser of two evils" con game

that corporatists in both parties keep using on us.

Red vs. Blue = Oligarchy Theater for the masses.

Mass spying on Americans? Both parties support it.
Handing the internet to corporations? Both parties support it.
Austerity for the masses? Both parties support it.
Cutting social safety nets? Both parties support it.
Corporatists in the cabinet? Both parties support it.
Tolling our interstate highways? Both parties support it.
Corporate education policy? Both parties support it.
Bank bailouts? Both parties support it.
Ignoring the trillions stashed overseas? Both parties support it.
Trans-Pacific Job/Wage Killing Secret Agreement? Both parties support it.
TISA corporate overlord agreement? Both parties support it.
Drilling and fracking? Both parties support it.
Wars on medical marijuana instead of corrupt banks? Both parties support it.
Deregulation of the food industry? Both parties support it.
GMO's? Both parties support it.
Privatization of the TVA? Both parties support it.
Immunity for telecoms? Both parties support it.
"Looking forward" and letting war criminals off the hook? Both parties support it.
Deciding torturers are patriots? Both parties support it.
Militarized police and assaults on protesters? Both parties support it.
Indefinite detention? Both parties support it.
Drone wars and kill lists? Both parties support it.
Targeting of journalists and whistleblowers? Both parties support it.
Private prisons replacing public prisons? Both parties support it.
Unions? Both parties view them with contempt.
Trillion dollar increase in nuclear weapons. Both parties support it.
New war in Iraq. Both parties support it.
New war in Syria. Both parties support it.
Carpet bombing of captive population in Gaza. Both parties support it.
Selling off swaths of the Gulf of Mexico for drilling? Both parties support it.
Drilling along the Atlantic Coast? Both parties support it.

BUT, we are reminded by sneering corporate Democrats, Republicans will do all of this to us, too, PLUS inflict transvaginal ultrasounds!

What a vicious scam by both parties to justify relentless, predatory evil. To demand that we vote for our own sellout and exploitation and the dismantling of our democracy itself.

You know what? At a certain point it becomes necessary to say no to deliberate evil. To refuse to bow to the scam and the manipulation. *Even* when it is waving its claws and protesting that there's even scarier evil over there.

Posted by woo me with science | Sun Feb 15, 2015, 06:08 PM (2 replies)

+100000 Party obsession is a scam for proles.

Oligarchs care about the corporate agenda of empire, police state, and profit...and making sure it continues no matter which party is elected.

Posted by woo me with science | Sun Feb 15, 2015, 05:51 PM (0 replies)

IMO we're being set up for a Republican win by both sides.

Red versus Blue is a scam, a propaganda act, with the purpose of keeping us divided and convinced we still have a democracy.

Corporatists on both sides are working hard to set the stage to elect a Republican next time, because eight years of corporate Democratic rule have opened too many eyes to the fact that we are an oligarchy rather than a democracy now, and that the predatory corporate agenda continues no matter which party is elected. That awareness is dangerous for the PTB.

They NEED a Republican in office for awhile so that that corporate Democrats can pretend to be against corporate/warmongering/police state policies again. They hope that the country will forget all this silly oligarchy talk and go back to believing that the only thing wrong in Washington is that a Republican is in office and we need to rally to get the Third Way Democrats back in again.

We saw it in the DCCC "Accept Doom" email campaign. We see it in the attacks on the base every single day by supposed Hillary supporters. Corporatists in both parties are doing everything possible to enable a Republican win. The corporate elite needs *us* to care which party wins, because our caring shows that we still believe we have a democracy. But the truth is that we live in a post-partisan, united oligarchy now, not a democracy. The corporate elite own both parties, and they care only that the corporate agenda continues, along with the "democracy" scam.

Red vs. Blue = Oligarchy Theater for the masses.

Mass spying on Americans? Both parties support it.
Handing the internet to corporations? Both parties support it.
Austerity for the masses? Both parties support it.
Cutting social safety nets? Both parties support it.
Corporatists in the cabinet? Both parties support it.
Tolling our interstate highways? Both parties support it.
Corporate education policy? Both parties support it.
Bank bailouts? Both parties support it.
Ignoring the trillions stashed overseas? Both parties support it.
Trans-Pacific Job/Wage Killing Secret Agreement? Both parties support it.
TISA corporate overlord agreement? Both parties support it.
Drilling and fracking? Both parties support it.
Wars on medical marijuana instead of corrupt banks? Both parties support it.
Deregulation of the food industry? Both parties support it.
GMO's? Both parties support it.
Privatization of the TVA? Both parties support it.
Immunity for telecoms? Both parties support it.
"Looking forward" and letting war criminals off the hook? Both parties support it.
Deciding torturers are patriots? Both parties support it.
Militarized police and assaults on protesters? Both parties support it.
Indefinite detention? Both parties support it.
Drone wars and kill lists? Both parties support it.
Targeting of journalists and whistleblowers? Both parties support it.
Private prisons replacing public prisons? Both parties support it.
Unions? Both parties view them with contempt.
Trillion dollar increase in nuclear weapons. Both parties support it.
New war in Iraq. Both parties support it.
New war in Syria. Both parties support it.
Carpet bombing of captive population in Gaza. Both parties support it.
Selling off swaths of the Gulf of Mexico for drilling? Both parties support it.
Drilling along the Atlantic Coast? Both parties support it.

Posted by woo me with science | Sun Feb 15, 2015, 04:58 PM (12 replies)

I challenge the neoliberals dispensing these talking points

to name all the countries that have grown authoritarianism and rampant inequality, in which women and minorities remain *empowered.*

What utter bullshit, this Third Way claim to care about vulnerable groups, when their policies are aggressively dismantling the very democratic and economic protections that the whole of human history teaches us are necessary for marginalized groups to be empowered.

Neoliberals are a MENACE to the future of vulnerable groups. They are a menace to democracy itself.

Posted by woo me with science | Sun Feb 15, 2015, 10:07 AM (2 replies)

Not this Third Way garbage again. Neoliberals shit on women and poor people.

Actually, they do more than shit on them. They drive them into grinding poverty and despair, and they murder them. Austerity and looting hurt all human beings, but they harm marginalized groups including women and minorities most of all.

Probably the *most* revolting, dishonest lie of Third Way politicians is their shameless, outrageous claim to be the ones who *especially* care about poor people and women and minorities....even while they are aggressively and relentlessly dismantling the very democratic systems that allow minority groups to be empowered. The growth of authoritarianism and rampant inequality, and the destruction of democratic protections for the people, are NEVER compatible with protection of civil rights for minorities. Look at history, for god's sake. Look at the ACTUAL results of policy.

Hillary stands for the malignant corporatism that is, quite literally, dismantling our Bill of Rights, implementing mass surveillance, criminalizing investigative journalism and whistleblowing, looting the masses into poverty, and protecting a criminal, warmongering elite. Her "trade agreements" are antidemocratic and fascistic at their core, because they are *designed* to allow predatory corporations to override our ability to use our own democratic systems to defend ourselves against predatory corporatism.

Predatory corporatism harms all of us, but it ravages disadvantaged groups most of all.

Women Facing Globalization: The Impact Of Neo-liberal Globalization On The Economic, Social And Cultural Rights Of Women
http://www.awid.org/Library/Women-Facing-Globalization-The-impact-of-neo-liberal-globalization-on-the-economic-social-and-cultural-rights-of-women

Neoliberalism’s Deleterious Effects on Women
https://genderandsocs13.wordpress.com/2013/03/03/neoliberalisms-deleterious-effects-on-women/

NEOLIBERALISM THRHOUGH THE EYES OF WOMEN
http://focusweb.org/publications/2001/neoliberalism-through-the-eyes-of-women.html

Racial Aspects of Economy are Significant for White House to Address
http://www.alternet.org/speakeasy/2010/07/28/racial-aspects-of-economy-are-significant-for-white-house-to-address

The Astonishing Collapse of Black and Latino Household Wealth
http://www.alternet.org/economy/black-and-latino-household-wealth-has-collapsed

The Roots of the Widening Racial Wealth Gap: Explaining the Black-White Economic Divide
http://iasp.brandeis.edu/pdfs/Author/shapiro-thomas-m/racialwealthgapbrief.pdf

Wealth Gaps Rise to Record Highs Between Whites, Blacks and Hispanics
http://www.pewsocialtrends.org/files/2011/07/SDT-Wealth-Report_7-26-11_FINAL.pdf

The truth is that women and minorities can't afford more corporatism and are already dying because of it. The effects of *continued* corporate warfare on this nation and other nations will be a disaster for all human beings, but *especially* women and minorities.

It's all a viciously cynical rhetorical game, and the corporate propaganda doesn't fly anymore. The Third Way will not protect values of racial *or* gender equality by supporting candidates whose policies are dismantling the very economic and democratic systems that make it possible for women and minorities to be empowered. They certainly won't do it with policies like Obama's and Hillary's that protect bankers, starve schools and communities, grow exploitative industries including private prisons, and militarize the hell out of police in marginalized communities.

If people think things are bad now, just wait until we see the status of women and minorities in this country when we are all working for Third World wages, Hillary's trade agreements have ramped up corporate power and the ability of predatory corporations to override our democratic laws and protections, and dissent in the new corporate America has been crushed.

Posted by woo me with science | Sun Feb 15, 2015, 08:43 AM (2 replies)

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