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Member since: Sun Jul 11, 2004, 07:58 PM
Number of posts: 39,405

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There is only one test of torture: would we want it done to our troops or our citizens?

You know, like the Golden Rule someone said in the Bible, "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you."

Whenever Cheney, Yoo, or the apologist of the day is being interviewed, this is the only question they need to be asked.

If they play the 9/11 card, ask about all the innocent people tortured and sometimes killed.

Not incidentally, they realized a guy they claimed was number three in Al Qaeda and tortured the crap out of, Abu Zubaydah, was INNOCENT and let him go.

PIC: Why IT'S A WONDERFUL LIFE is Xmas favorite of GOP (and Wall St)

How many of you heard protesters in Oakland shut down police HQ for hours Monday?

This got live coverage on Pacifica, but I didn't have a chance to see how or even if it was covered elsewhere.

I can't remember something like this happening before.

It seems to border on being revolutionary, which is why I wondered about coverage elsewhere.

From the Los Angeles Times:

One protester climbed a flagpole and raised a banner, which protesters said commemorated men and women killed by police. Protesters chained shut four of the building's entrances and then chained themselves to the doors.

"Three of these doors are our main ingress and egress for the public and Oakland Police Department personnel," police said in a statement. "As a result, the public could not access important police services, such as reporting crimes, obtaining public records, accessing necessary paperwork for vehicle impound releases and property releases."

Using a pair of cutters, officers cut chains from the protesters and removed them from the front doors of the police headquarters, which had been sealed shut.

Protesters block Oakland police headquarters
Demonstrators block traffic in Oakland and the entrance to the city's police headquarters.
A woman filming the demonstrations said on live video that 100 protesters had been marching through the rain-soaked streets of Oakland since 7:30 a.m. She tweeted, "I repeat OPD is shut down!!!"


Anyone asked Obama why whistleblowers are in prison but not torturers they exposed?

I mean to his face.

What will Obama ultimately do about Bush era torture?

Far from setting up prosecution, torture report tees up pardons

While there was some new information in the Senate torture report, some of the most damning details were left out like systematically cutting a guy all over with a razor including his genitals, rape of men, women, and children, showing prisoners relatives killed in custody and on and on.

Why not include these if they are already in the press record and even in past government probes like the Taguba Report?

Because if these crimes that even the far right would have a hard time forgiving were included, it would be impossible to pardon the Bushies.

Anthony Romero of the ACLU makes a case that pardoning the Bushies will at least make it clear that they committed crimes, and there is some merit to that argument, but if Obama does it, that will not be why.

If Obama pardons Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, Yoo, and the others who had a hand in the torture and other war crimes, it will be to protect them from prosecution from future administrations that may be less corrupt and have a higher regard for the law and human rights than the leadership of either of our two major parties.

When we get to that point in our history though, actual justice will probably trump indefensible "get out of jail free" cards for those who ordered the torture of thousands and deaths of over a million, and used our tax dollars and soldiers lives to do it.

How can Obama & AG Holder stick to the ludicrous "look forward not back" on WAR CRIMES today?

Even if the American people gladly go along with that, the rest of the world won't forget our crimes or that they let the criminals go into a lucrative retirement (and in some cases, still influence policy).

The Supreme Court forced the inbred, morally degenerate Bush on us, so to some degree, we can rationalize that we don't own his sins.

But when we allow the other major party to not only look the way but prosecute those who reveal these crimes against humanity, that says to the rest of the world that Americans support illegal wars, large (and small) scale killing for private profit, and violation of whatever human rights our elite feel are necessary to advance their financial interests abroad.

Even if you don't give a rat's ass about foreigners, we should be worried about the world figuring out how to unite and "contain" us, and even more worried that those who are allowed to commit such crimes with impunity won't hesitate to go Pinochet on us when they feel it's necessary to protect or advance their financial portfolio.
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