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applegrove

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Member since: Mon Feb 7, 2005, 03:14 AM
Number of posts: 96,881

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Does deeming to even talk about the role of government or unions with republicans give

their position gravitas? Yes. And of course Dems do not talk industrial relationships between business, unions and government. Which they should. Even if they have to do it amongst themselves. Dems should be the party embracing the future. The party that sees how wealth has decoupled from jobs. The party that sees we need new relationships between business, government, unions, through taxes and regulations, that work for the middle class. Dems are not talking about it and that delegitimizes unions and government by not putting government & unions at the forefront of the middle class' future.

The Europeans are doing fine on the gini equality scale. That was my point. As to

banking deregulation are you really saying it is not a right wing idea? That right wing ideas and a banking crisis is not the cause of economic woe in Europe right now? Deregulations? Really? I know Bill Clinton did in G/S. He was taking ideas generated by the right. No? Are you going to call me a conspiracist (which I reject and which you know I would seeing as how you use the technique called stereotyping to get me to change my behaviour, a technique used by psychopaths to control people.....why do you want to control me? What have I on you that makes me so scary that I must be controlled?)? I must be very powerful with my ideas to get you to behave so. Does that mean the right really is engaging in misdirection by making the debate about the legitimacy of government or unions rather that proactive relationships between business, government and unions?

Where is the discussion on the various ways the middle class is going to get to share in the wealth

created by computers? Europe is having it. Why not North America?

Misdirection so that the discussion is on past issues, not new relationships

between corporations, government and workers.

Free trade makes countries specialize at what they do best. Jobs are lost to the sometimes medium

sized corporations that are not the world's best. Fewer corporations in a country mean fewer people profiting as mid managers, stockholders, paid workers in a plant. Another reason why the rich get richer and the middle class gets smaller. Another reason why we need to have the discussion about how the country is going to share the wealth these huge winning corporations make by replacing humans with robots, outsourcing, free trade competition, etc. Because, like it or not, governments around the world have provided the environment for the best corporations to get bigger and richer. If not now, when do we have the discussion of large corporations place in OUR world. The right has done a good job of shutting that discussion up in the USA. That discussion has taken place in places like Singapore or Germany where there are partnerships between workers, government and business. If the right can keep us debating government's role in the economy, or free trade, they can keep us from discussing new relationships and how to slice up the pie more equitably. The debates on free trade and whether government is evil are mis-direction.

Ayn Rand books are all about the reader being bashed over the head with a particular world

view until they succumb and give in to the masterful protagonist. Little people, like me, will buy into what is being hammered into their brains rather than have their polllyanna worldview destroyed by the might of such a master. Thankfully, I only ever went halfway into denial about how bad the guy who went after me was and believing the lie. And then I had overwhelming evidence of me being a target so I had to learn to live with the truth of living in a world much scarier than I would have ever been prepared to live in. Took me a while. Years. But now I have a skeptical side that kicks in when things don't add up. And I am thankful for it. This is definitely what Ryan is up to. He's the hammer. He'll bash the American public again and again with his 'truth'. And some, pollyannas who don't want to go through the loss to themselves of having to live in a sometimes evil world and thus accept that the GOP is evil, will succumb. A small percent is all he needs. Compared to a manipulator like Paul Ryan, many Americans are pollyannas.

That being said, those psychopaths often have many reasons behind what they do and how they manipulate. So it could be both reasons the Economist talks about.

That was a great book. I do think her thesis, that creative destruction was on the agenda

of many on the right, is true. But I think Iraq calmed their desire for war and Katrina calmed their desire for creative destruction, for a bit. But now they are back with the manufactured crisis of debt and cuts needed. The 1% were not be affected by the meltdown in 2008. They just go into savings and their lifestyle stays pretty much the same. So they don't go through loss and learn the hard truths you learn when you feel sad. They stay delusional angry or delusional happy. Either way they are clueless or cold and could one day end up in a country they do not recognize.

So too those people who made it through WWII and could not abide nazis got old, and the younger of political leaders on the right loved psychopaths and their tricky moves. And the younger public, the baby boomers, had not experience with being exploited so they let the right and the 1% control the agenda. And then George W. Bush happened. Obama won. And then Occupy happened. Then Occupy stopped being about all the 99%, and started being about the far left, which are different, so those independants, woken up by Occupy, went to democrats and voted for Obama in 2012. Many are wiser now. Half of America still tolerate nazis much more than the greatest generations ever would have. It is still a big worry.

It is a meme they'll put out there and then when they lose and don't get Obamacare

gutted they'll make it seem like it was a gift to the left so the GOP should not have to give up anymore. Just like the NRA backtracked on background checks. The psychopaths loves to make up the rules of the negotiations and what people's assumptions are. So they win more. This Obamacare is on the table meme is just more of the same. It is like they lost ground when they nominated Romney and he couldn't attack Obama on Obamacare because it was Romney's plan.

Like you take a dog out for walk, the bosses in the GOP get their base all paranoid

against the GOP's enemies. It is, simply put, exercising them to be better pawns and patsies. Like any group of muscles, it can get weaker over time. Left unexercised a person might not hate Obama or they might vote their own economic best interest again. Thus, rumours like this over and over and over again.
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