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Member since: Tue Jul 10, 2007, 02:49 PM
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Donald Trump: The *real* first Internet candidate.

Sure, I know the internet has been around for decades. I know that it's been a major part of public life since the mid 1990s, and much has been made about it, how it has transformed global society and connected the world at our finger tips.

And yes, political candidates have flocked to the internet as a campaigning tool. From campaign websites to social media to Youtube videos, it's hard to imagine a political campaign that hasn't been heavily centered around the internet.

But there's the internet. And then there's the Internet.

There's the internet in what we, in our most optimistic and idealized state of mind, conceptualize it to be: the free and open exchange of ideas across the globe, a marketplace of speech, where we can engage one another in stimulating thought and conversation from miles apart. It's a great "Buy the World a Coke" type of attitude that would make anyone want to stand up and cheer.

But then there's the Internet, the Internet that it far too often actually is: an anarchic, chaotic Wild Wild West of a place, full of liars, scammers, predators, bigots and bullies. Full of ugliness and people emboldened by anonymity to be the very worst human beings that they can possibly be.

And that--the latter Internet--is what embodies this entire Donald Trump phenomenon as a whole. The Internet plays towards con artists and uninhibited human nastiness at the very lowest level, and that is everything that Donald Trump is.

Donald Trump is the clickbait links that seek only page views under the guise of vague, sensationalist headlines.

Donald Trump is the pseudo-scientific woo talking about fake natural cures to serious ailments or encouraging bad health advice, such as skipping vaccinations.

Donald Trump is the multi-level-marketing (MLM) scams that seize the minds of well-intentioned but gullible folks to sell useless products that would fail on the shelves of your neighborhood retailer.

Donald Trump is the "like-farming" on your Facebook feed, promising to enter you in a contest for a free vacation worth thousands of dollars to a place they have no authority or affiliation with, if only you "like and share" their phony page.

Donald Trump is the Alt-Right--angry, hateful, racist and misogynistic cretins found in places like 4Chan and Reddit, the people behind Gamergate, who have an odd unending obsession over "cucks" and "SJWs" and posting "dank memes". (These people really are attributing to much of Trump's online support--read any live feed to a Trump speech and it's teeming with them. It's scary.).

Donald Trump is the fake news stories from fake news sources passed off as truth--not satirically, as The Onion and The Borowitz Report do so,so well--but in a genuine attempt to confuse and mislead people, even though a simple internet search of minutes or a checking of Snopes or Politifact would reveal it all to be lies.

Donald Trump is the pop-up ad that you try to click away, only to inadvertently infect your computer with a nasty virus.

Donald Trump is Infowars and World Net Daily and the peddlers of insane, impossible conspiracy theories that people nonetheless buy into as the gospel truth.

Donald Trump is your spam email account, full of Nigerian lottery scams, ads for porn sites and fake prescription drug offers.

Donald Trump is Stormfront and other online hate groups that do nothing but to divide and incite the most ugly, hateful, bigoted reactions against any possible group imaginable.

Donald Trump is all those things of the Internet. He is the green, oozy, sickly, foul fecal-smelling slime that coats and suffocates the high-minded foundations of the internet like an invasive algae bloom.

He is the first true Candidate of the Internet.
Posted by Tommy_Carcetti | Mon Apr 25, 2016, 10:44 AM (1 replies)

There's something very, very odd about one particular Trump social media booster named "Gary Forbes"

Out of sheer trainwreck curiousity, I check up on the Donald Trump trending list on Twitter. While I personally can't stand Twitter as a social media platform (its awkward layout and inscrutable mix of hashtags, ampersands and misspellings and abbreviations are an assault on the eyes) and don't bother with an account of my own, it does have its purposes. And one of those purposes is to gain an idea of what's being talked about by people across the spectrum.

There's a lot being said about Trump online. A lot of it is very funny at Trump's expense. Other things by Trump supporters range from ignorant to downright bigoted and scary. But one particular name kept coming up as a key source of social media Trump propaganda: A man only identified as one "Gary Forbes".

Gary Forbes' Twitter page doesn't really offer much into who exactly this person supposedly is. He claims to be CEO of a company called "The Forbes Group". That makes it sound like he's affiliated with Forbes magazine or the Forbes family (including Malcolm Forbes and former presidential candidate Steven Forbes). However, there's nothing to indicate that he's actually associated with any of it, although it appears that's what he wants you to think.

His Twitter page contains very few personal pictures. The profile picture shows a middle aged man in his 50s, wearing a suit, against the background of an unidentified city skyline. While I suppose it's supposed to convey the sense of a saavy business type, the unintentionally comical expression on the man's face and hands raised makes it look more like some guy who's being held up at gunpoint on a city street after a night of too many cocktails.

So what does this "Gary Forbes" do? Simple. He produces graphic slides in support of Trump. Lots and lots and lots of them. And they'll pop up all over Twitter after being tweeted and re-tweeted and re-re-tweeted, etc. Most tout endorsements of Trump. Some tout Trump's nonsensical policy positions. Others just merely serve to fellate Trump the Man.

The first Gary Forbes slide I ever saw popped up on my Facebook page from one of the handful of Trump supporting friends I had, and it was a doozy. It claimed--in true North Korean Juche propaganda fashion--that Donald Trump had a "genius IQ" in the 99.9904590555 percentile. "Forbes" supposed this based strictly upon the fact Trump attended the Wharton School of Finance. And that's it. (No mention of whether or not Trump also scored 18 holes in one in a round of golf or whether a double rainbow appeared on the date of his birth or that he doesn't defecate.) Here, take a look for yourself:

That was back in October, and since then "Gary Forbes" has produced dozens upon dozens of similar Trump propaganda slides. All this would appear to be insignificant fanboyism except for the fact that they have been so widely circulated over Twitter and the internet, and that so much of what Forbes claims is just plain wrong. For example, in November, Forbes created a slide claiming that aviation legend Chuck Yeager had endorsed Trump. In fact, this incensed Yeager who never endorsed Trump and demanded Forbes remove the slide. However, this has not stopped the false claim from continued to be circulated as fact amongst Trump supporters for months afterwards. The incident gained so much notoriety that it actually came to Snopes attention, who rightfully called the BS on Forbes:


But Forbes on his website seems to clearly have an agenda of spreading propaganda regarding Trump, true or not, and even explains how to do it to maximum effect:


What is more curious is whether this "Gary Forbes" actually exists as a person. If you Google that name, most of the results lead you to sites discussing a professional basketball player of the same name who is obviously not the same guy. There's very little, however, of a "Gary Forbes" relating to either Donald Trump or this "Forbes Group". The bio on Forbes' own website is mysteriously vague, only claiming that he is an "Author/Speaker/Strategist/Negotiator" but does not list any family, educational, or professional background or give any type of CV listing his accomplishments and publications and such.

But looking a little deeper, things get even weirder. Because not only is Trump Superfan and social media booster "Gary Forbes" a CEO/author/speaker/strategist/negotiator, but apparently he's also an accomplished New Age pianist. At least according to his Youtube site and website that was created with the exact same website platform as his Trump page:


The music that Forbes claims is his is reminiscent of that of John Tesh, if you've been so lucky to hear that in your local elevator. He claims to have a CD for sale called "The Illusion of Love" but there's no evidence of it being sold on Amazon or any other sales site. Forbes also claims a glowing review from "actor/writer/film producer" Steven Shavers, calling him an "extraordinary genius". You know, that Steven Shavers....whose name never comes up on IMBD or anywhere else as being an "actor/writer/film producer".

A little clue pops up on Forbes' musical site, however, as the copyright section gives the name "Gary Pasquariello Forbes", and a home video on the Gary Forbes Youtube site references himself as Gary Pasquariello.

Now....what does this have to do with Donald Trump and the country? Very little on the surface. But one has to really wonder if Gary Forbes/Pasquariello/Whoever is acting complete as a free agent spreading the word of Trump, creating intricately detailed slides containing false and libelous information in Trump's favor....or whether it's someone who was put up by the Trump campaign to do so, and the Trump campaign can retain a sense of plausible deniability of non-affiliation when called on the bullshit.

And sadly, this bullshit from "Gary Forbes" spreads like wildfire over social media and becomes nearly impossible to refute due to its viral effect. It does appear to be a logical fit--one con man (Trump) enlists the help of another con man ("Gary Pasquariello Forbes", i.e. the CEO/author/speaker/strategist/negotiator/pianist selling non-existent CDs that are praised by a non-existent actor/writer/film producer) to further catapault the propaganda and the lies all over the internets.

"Gary Forbes" Twitter:


"Gary Forbes" website:


Posted by Tommy_Carcetti | Wed Mar 23, 2016, 11:13 AM (10 replies)

I think people are discounting a major reason for Trump's popularity. And it's very simple.

That is, the susceptibility of a significant portion of the population to being conned and scammed.

As evidence, I'll point where I'll always point: Facebook. Because sad as it seems, Facebook is our best means today to see normal human interaction and human reaction to stimuli over a diverse group of people you either know or people who know the people that you know.

Over the past year or so, I've seen essentially the same scam come up every month or two, in a variety of incarnations. It's called "Like Farming". A Facebook page will appear, purporting to be the page of a major US company. Most frequently it's Disney World. Sometimes it will be an airline or a retailer. They'll post a generic picture, and then claim that they are holding a contest. They'll claim they are giving away an all expenses paid 5 day vacation for 4. And not only that, they'll also give you $2,000 in spending money. Sounds great, doesn't it? So exactly does one have to do to win this sensational prize? Why, it's very simply. Just "Like" the page and type "Thanks" in the comment section.

And just like that, tens of thousands of people will do just as they say, thinking they're in the running for a vacation worth several thousand dollars. Of course, the problem is, they're not actually liking the real Disney World (or whatever company they think is running the contest) page. They're liking the page for "Dizney World" or "Disney World." (with a inconspicuous period behind it.) Meanwhile, the people who've created the dummy page get access to whatever information on your own Facebook page that is available to friends that isn't available to the general public. It should be obvious given that the dummy page has no other markings that an official page would have (no verified check mark, no posting on any other topics than this one contest). But you'll see tens of thousands of likes, and comments such as "I can't believe I have a chance to win this vacation!". Because sadly, despite all the obvious signs, there are plenty of people who think they are genuinely in the running for an official Disney World vacation. And it breaks my heart to see such gullibility on display.

Or sometimes there will be a blurry picture, and the message above will say, "Like this page and type 'Like!' in the comments and see what happens!". And again, thousands of people will fall prey, thinking that the simple act of liking a picture will magically change a static .jpg's digital properties.

I've also seen people fall victim to MLM scams on Facebook. I saw one friend posting about her "Essential Oil" business, and claimed--without any sense of irony or sarcasm--that these Essential Oils helped claim--among other things--Parkinson's, Autism and Cancer. No. Really. Apparently, the key to ever major disease out there is flax seed oil.

So now, we have this bombastic, in your face, presidential candidate who's made his living hawking himself in front of television cameras. He's had exactly two specific proposals in the 7 months he's been running for president: First, he's going to build a wall along the Mexican border and claims he'll have Mexico pay for it. Secondly, he's going to deny admittance to the US on the basis of religion, namely to Muslims. Other than these two ridiculously impractical and offensive proposals, the rest of his campaign has been shrouded in vaguery and smoke and mirrors. He'll talk about all the polls he's leading, about how he's going to win, all the people he knows, how he'll "Make America Great Again", how he has hats that say "Make America Great Again", and lots and lots of tearing into enemies and perceived enemies under the guise of "I'm not politically correct."

He hasn't said anything. He hasn't said a thing. He's gone on and on and on blabbering his mouth, but has yet to offer a single realistic, viable proposal or vision of how he wishes to lead the most powerful country on earth and help its citizens. All he talks about is himself. It's one of the most frustrating things I've happened upon in the news in recent memory, about how someone so obviously vapid and doing something only to selfishly feed his own pathologically festered ego can be so successful at the hands of gullible people.

But people eat it up. They think "Make America Great Again" is an actual policy, or that his "I'm not politically correct" validates their own internal bigotries. Just like "Like Farming" and MLM scams, we're seeing another great con being played on the American people, and far too many of them are falling victim.
Posted by Tommy_Carcetti | Wed Feb 10, 2016, 11:14 AM (38 replies)

A very important DU Public Service Announcement:

General Discussion: Primaries is for general discussion about the Democratic Party primaries.

In case you somehow missed the giant banner that you had to click on before posting here at plain old General Discussion.

And that includes the whole "I was just making a general, non-election related comment on X Democratic Candidate, No really, I was" thing. Because no one believes you and that's just pathetic.

Some of us consciously avoid the ridiculous shit flinging insanity that is GD: P for a reason. Not that there's anything wrong with shit flinging. Just fling your shit over there for a reason.

I'm glad I can bring this to everyone's attention, and I'll expect beaucoup hearts for everyone in return for the public service I have provided today.

Posted by Tommy_Carcetti | Tue Feb 9, 2016, 08:13 AM (10 replies)

I'm sorry. I keep on going back to the fact that DONALD TRUMP CANNOT SPEAK.

Yes, he talks. And talks. And talks. And talks.

But I'm not talking about talking. I'm talking about speaking.

And he seems completely incapable of giving an actual coherent, organized, thought out public speech.

Yes, the argument can be made that in politics, talk is cheap. And I'm sure we've all felt let down by at least one politician who gave great speeches but failed to follow up with concrete results.

But still, there's something to be said about someone who can speak to inspire or move, or make us think about something greater than just them. I saw it last week at the State of the Union. I beamed at President Obama's speech. He made me feel proud and hopeful, even despite the fact that we still have problems in the world. And while those are just feelings, I'm glad there's someone out there who can use the power of words to convey a idea of something more than yourself.

I actually tried listening to Trump's speech from Liberty University today. Because I wanted to know if somehow, there was something I was missing about the man's appeal. I knew I would vehemently disagree with his message, but that wasn't my purpose here.

But it was nothing. It was absolutely nothing. He talked about his poll numbers, then building a wall, then mocking his opponents, then China, then his poll numbers, then Iran, then building a wall, then mocking his opponents, then China.....no more than a minute on any subject before switching to another subject. There was no actual thought put into this. He was just talking and talking and talking. Not once was he actually speaking.

Today, we celebrate one of the greatest orators in American history, a man whose powerful words struck deep into the hearts of millions and help changed this country for the better. And thank God we have recordings of his speeches on records, so that people like me--who were born long after Martin Luther King was shot dead in Memphis--could continue to marvel at that awesome ability long after he died.

Martin Luther King did not talk. He spoke. And the narcissistic, incoherent drivel I heard today was as far from speaking as was humanly possible.
Posted by Tommy_Carcetti | Mon Jan 18, 2016, 10:38 PM (36 replies)

There is nothing about Donald Trump or his personality that is even remotely admirable or likable.

Or redeemable.


You might recall the Seinfeld episode where George and Jerry are discussing Jerry's nemesis/neighbor Newman with utter contempt, when George pauses and says, "Well, he's merry." Against all that he believes about Newman, Jerry is forced to concur: "He is merry, I'll give him that."

In the world of partisan politics, at times we are forced to admit that even the worst of your opponents might have some sort of admirable qualities when one puts everything else aside. Yes, Reagan traded arms for hostages, turned his back on the AIDS crisis, and was otherwise a clueless empty suit in the Oval Office....but he did have that vague Old Spice scented grandfather fogeyness about him where we'd all expect for him to pull out a quarter behind the nation's collective ears. George W. Bush plunged the nation headfirst into Iraq and the worst economic crisis since the 1930s, but there was the whole folksy faux cowboy thing about him that probably wouldn't have been so disconcerting had he not been the most powerful man on the face of the earth. And there was always a sense of classic tragedy behind Nixon's paranoia and feelings of inadequacy.

But that's all in the past. And now you get to this man, the current beast we have to deal with:

And for the life of me, I cannot think of one single quality or attribute about Donald J. Trump that comes off as likeable or admirable. I just can't.

He's ugly, both inside and out, but will insist that he's anything but that. He's not funny or original in his thinking. He's been a horrible husband, a horrible businessman, and really horrible about everything he's ever done in his horrible little life. His self-flaunted riches and fame are the result only of a situation he was born into and not in any way the result of anything he's actually had to work for. He's stupid, with his limited vocabulary that he only seems to use to bring other people down. He fails to put forth any ideas that could at least be praised for their ingenuity or specificity. He wants to kick old ladies out of their homes so he can build tacky casinos on their land. He breaks promises to pay for the medical care of his deceased brother's infant grandchild out of spite against said deceased brother. He gleefully cheers the loss of people's jobs at Macy's because Macy's previously had the gall to discontinue his cheap clothing line. He's a reality TV show star--need I say more?

And now he's using the bully pulpit to self-aggrandize himself in his own little Cluster B narcissistic bubble, and the fuel he's using is hatred and paranoia and whipping people up into witch hunt like frenzies against immigrants and refugees, Hispanics, Muslims, women, and anyone who doesn't genuflect before his own graven image.

So with all that in mind, I can't say but I'm rather non-plussed at the fact that this man has any sort of popular support, that anyone with even a limited amount of intelligence would consider him suitable for the Presidency. For some reason, I'd like to think there's something in the collective human mind that would make us automatically reject such an awful, horrible, terrible human being.

And yet, he survives. And he thrives.

The only other political figure in modern American history where I remain at a complete loss in trying to think of anything remotely positive or admirable about would be Dick Cheney.

But even he played a great Darth Vader. Trump, on the other hand, would be lucky enough to be Jabba the Hut.

Posted by Tommy_Carcetti | Fri Jan 8, 2016, 04:48 PM (37 replies)

Pets and anti-freeze.

Unlike most liquid chemicals, they say anti-freeze has a very sweet, pleasant taste to it. Thankfully, human beings have the foresight to know that despite something having a sweet taste, if it's labeled "anti-freeze", most people are smart enough not to drink it. Unfortunately, cats and dogs are not blessed with that sort of knowledge, and if they come across a puddle of leaking anti-freeze underneath a car, sometimes they will be drawn to the sweet taste and they will drink their fill of it. They are completely unaware of its lethal effects.

On my Facebook page, I was unfortunate enough to come across someone who shared a video by an individual who goes by the name "Catfish Cooley." I won't bother linking to his page because he doesn't deserve that sort of publicity, but if you are so curious, you've got the Google. While I've never heard of him before, apparently he's of that oxymoronically titled category "internet celebrity." In other words, he's completely talentless but he does have a webcam with Facebook and Youtube accounts and he'll talk into it, and people will inexplicably follow him and hoist celebrity status upon him. On his videos--and I could only stomach a few of them--you'll find the most vile, disgusting statements regarding President Obama, Muslims, guns, blacks, and numerous other topics. And of course he supports Donald Trump. The fact that he's visually repugnant (a squatty, shirtless man who slurs his words) is the very least of his flaws.

And yet he has nearly 80,000 followers on Facebook. I'm still stumped if this is a Poe's Law deal, something so absurd yet completely ambiguous as to whether it's supposed to be satire or serious. But from the looks of the comments on his videos, there are hundreds of people who clearly take his diatribes very seriously. People think he's "folksy" and "speaks his mind" and "is not afraid to be politically incorrect." It's the exact same thing that's pushing the narrative in the Donald Trump phenomena. People eat this shit up like it's some sort of delicious candy. It's the cats and dogs lapping up that sweet, sweet anti-freeze, completely blind to the fact that what they are indulging upon is slowly poisoning them.

People who prey using fear and hatred and anti-intellectualism are inexplicably being celebrated as great minds in society. And it's reaching epidemic levels.

Idiocracy has officially come to America. And it didn't take 500 years for it to happen, either.

Posted by Tommy_Carcetti | Fri Dec 11, 2015, 10:27 AM (0 replies)

Overheard at the GOP Base Returns and Exchanges Department:

"Jeez, I hate doing this. Listen, I'm going to have to return this one. No, don't get me wrong. This one's great. It says all the right, crazy whacked out shit that I want to hear. I absolutely love the whole anti-immigrant thing, the self-aggrandizing, the petty insults, the ultra-thin skin, the Twitter meltdowns, the whole package."

"The problem though is.....well, the neighbors hate it. They say it keeps them up all night screeching about 'I'm going to build a big wall!' and 'Loser!' and 'Huge!' and all that sort of stuff. And not that I actually give a shit about my neighbors, but their whining annoys me, and well, I really don't want to have to deal with that."

"So I'm looking to exchange this one out for something else. You know, something that says things that are just as bat shit crazy as the things this one says, but says them in a calmer, more approachable, more likeable tone. You know, one who you don't immediately want to slug between the eyes the moment you see it. So what else do you have?"

"Oh......okay. Yeah. That technically works, but......the problem is, that's last year's model. And I'm just afraid that if I go around parading last year's stuff, I'll just be laughed out of the room. They'll just think I'm living in the past. I mean, I might as well be posting Bitstrips to my Myspace Page about doing the Harlem Shake while talking on my flip phone, you know what I mean? Anything else?"

"No, I said something that didn't want to make people punch it in the face."

"Hmm.....I guess it could work. I mean, the whole 'Let's shut down the government, come on, it will be fun' thing--I love it. Plus the whole poor timing low blow jokes against political opponents, I really dig. Still....there's the whole Hispanic Canadian thing. What the hell's that about? Is that even like a real thing? I mean that's just....weird. Right? What person even thinks of that sort of stuff?"

"Do you have anything else? Maybe something that comes from a non-political background that, while impressive, has absolutely no bearing whatsoever in one's ability to actually lead a government?"

"Oh, and do you have anything that comes in black? Supposedly that sort of thing goes a long way in making me look less like....well, me."

Posted by Tommy_Carcetti | Thu Nov 5, 2015, 09:53 AM (0 replies)

Let's not forget Trump's quote was not only about McCain.

"I like people who weren't captured."

While he was directing his comment in context towards McCain, his comment stung towards anyone who may have been captured on the battlefield.

So regardless of what one might think about John McCain or the GOP, it's just a completely shitty thing to say.

It fits Trump's M.O. though. He's always talking about "winners" and "losers."

He'll happily identify himself as a "winner" despite having multiple business failures over his career. I guess being able to insulate his own personal wealth while thousands of his employees lost their jobs makes him a "winner" in his own mind.

And anyone who dares to cross his path will inevitably be identified as a "loser" by Trump on his rambling Twitter feed.

So in Trump's idiotic, feeble little mind, servicemen who manage to avoid capture might be the winners. Those who are captured and held as POWs, however, are the losers.

Donald Trump is a horrible, horrible human being.
Posted by Tommy_Carcetti | Sun Jul 19, 2015, 06:51 AM (23 replies)

On Joe Biden

The tragic death of Vice President Biden's son Beau has me thinking about the man, his personality and his legacy.

The public perception over the past six years has too often been to pain Joe Biden in a "goofy uncle persona", as a guy who's friendly and warm but has a reputation of thinking before he speaks at certain times. While not entirely untrue, this sells the Vice President way too short.

The fact of the matter is that he has been serving the public for over 40 years. He's remarkably well-versed on both foreign and domestic politics. He's endured multiple tragedies and setbacks, from the death of his first wife and daughter, to suffering a crippling brain aneurysm in 1988, to criticisms that he allegedly plagiarized portions of a stump speech in his 1988 campaign, and most recently the death of his elder son Beau. And yet he's managed to survive it all with remarkable grace and humility.

I've had the opportunity to meet Vice President Biden. Okay, perhaps "meet" is too glamorous a description of what took place, but we did have a brief interaction with one another. Back in 2006, then Senator Biden was the headline speaker at a political dinner function at which I was volunteering. Shortly before the dinner's speeches began, I left the main banquet hall to use the restroom. On the way to the restroom, I saw Senator Biden walking in the hallway surrounded by several handlers. As I crossed paths with his entourage, I smiled and said, "Good afternoon, Senator." He looked back at me, and with a warm smile and a cheerful voice, he replied, "Good afternoon, young man!" And that was it. Nothing more. As I said, it was barely an encounter, but it was a memorable one for me nonetheless.

Now, the cynic might poo-poo that mundane encounter as completely meaningless (and cynicism about politicians is unending, that fact brought home as I am currently in the midst of a "House of Cards" binge watch over the past couple of weeks). But call me crazy, I think Vice President Biden's greeting came off as completely genuine, that the guy genuinely likes interacting with constituents and ordinary people. I would not be surprised if people who've had the opportunity to interact with the man on a much more substantial basis than my own came out feeling the exact same way.

I'd be very surprised if Vice President Biden runs for President in 2016. I was skeptical of that possibility even before his son's death, but now even more so. However, if given the chance, I think he would have been a fine, compassionate and quite competent leader of this country.

And for those who continue to insist to perpetuate the "goofy uncle persona" about Biden, I'm not completely insulted. Given that he was preceded in office by an individual who was gave off the perception of being a cold-hearted, cruel, emotionless cyborg, having his place taken by a goofy uncle might very well have been exactly what this country needed.
Posted by Tommy_Carcetti | Tue Jun 2, 2015, 02:12 PM (4 replies)
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