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Waiting For Everyman

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Home country: USA
Member since: Mon Jun 23, 2008, 12:17 PM
Number of posts: 9,385

About Me

My namesake... http://youtu.be/GgXzWhexJh0 ... If I were asked to recommend only one political / history book it would be this one... http://www.amazon.com/Treason-America-Anton-Chaitkin/dp/0943235006 ... Treason in America: from Aaron Burr to Averell Harriman, by Anton Chaitkin. I do NOT endorse all of the views by Chaitkin external to this book, nor all of his actions, nor all of his associations, but I DO highly recommend this book. It is one every US citizen and everyone interested in its history should read. It it well written, meticulously sourced, and it is eye-opening -- even for those who consider themselves already knowledgeable. If you have not read it before, you need to read it, it is need-to-know information, and what it has to say is not going to be found in many places, if anywhere, else. That is my tip for whoever is passing by.

Journal Archives

Link to Top 100 songs each year from 1950 to 2011

For those who are into oldies:


Posted by Waiting For Everyman | Fri May 25, 2012, 04:11 AM (0 replies)

Re both language and DU: We have to destroy this village to save it.

(Paraphrase of a quote reported by Peter Arnett about the destruction of Ben Tre village... my metaphor for the Word Wars being conducted on DU.)


One pill makes you larger
And one pill makes you small,
And the ones that mother gives you
Don't do anything at all.
Go ask Alice
When she's ten feet tall

And if you go chasing rabbits
And you know you're going to fall,
Tell 'em a hookah-smoking caterpillar
Has given you the call
Call Alice
When she was just small

When the men on the chessboard
Get up and tell you where to go
And you've just had some kind of mushroom
And your mind is moving low
Go ask Alice
I think she'll know
When logic and proportion
Have fallen sloppy dead
And the White Knight is talking backwards
And the Red Queen's "off with her head!"
Remember what the Dormouse said:
"Feed your head... feed your head... feed your head"

Some quotes by Lewis Carroll:

"Alice thought to herself, 'Then there's no use in speaking.' The voices didn't join in this time, as she hadn't spoken, but to her great surprise, they all thought in chorus (I hope you understand what thinking in chorus means -- for I must confess that I don't), 'Better say nothing at all. Language is worth a thousand pounds a word!"

"If you limit your actions in life to things that nobody can possibly find fault with, you will not do much!"

"If everybody minded their own business, the world would go around a great deal faster than it does."

"Tweedle Dum and Tweedle Dee agreed to have a battle; for Tweedle Dum said Tweedle Dee had spoiled his nice new rattle."

" 'When I use a word,' Humpty Dumpty said in rather a scornful tone, 'it means just what I choose it to mean -- neither more nor less.' 'The question is,' said Alice, 'whether you can make words mean so many different things.' 'The question is,' said Humpty Dumpty, 'which is to be master -- that's all.' "

"Take care of the sense and the sounds will take of care themselves."

"How cheerfully he seems to grin,
How neatly spreads his claws..."

I am a woman, one who is not at all represented by the most prodigious crusaders against the recent examples of so-called "misogyny". So I'm "through the looking glass" by definition on these discussions at DU. As such for the last week or so, it has seemed to me, as Alice said above, "Better to say nothing at all". I have though, read all of the threads.

As a bystander on the sidelines, these are my observations:

The sheer nastiness of the very few conducting the bulk of the Word Wars is 10 times worse than what they're complaining about. The reason I say that is this...

I did a little experiment a few days ago just out of curiosity. And this was before any mention of 3 anybodies. I don't, and never have, put anyone on ignore. But I noticed, myself, before it was brought up (that I was aware of anyway) that just a few people were monopolizing the most contentious high post-count threads. My number was 4 people btw (including someone who is almost in the same league as to over-posting in threads but not quite, yet).

I wanted to see what one of those awful threads would look like if those 4 were put on ignore. It was interesting. The giant mega-thread suddenly became normal length that way - about 50 posts. That tells me something. And it isn't just one thread, I looked at three more of the same kind while I was at it. Same result. Anyone can try the same experiment, and see for themselves. Repeatable results are not an opinion, but a fact.

The huge number of their posts, and the constant attacks in them, is overwhelming.

The fact is, these few people ARE creating the problem. Those who are saying so are RIGHT, about this. Is there any reason why so few people should be allowed to run amuck like this over everyone else, all the while complaining about OTHERS' behavior! O. M. G. If ever there was anyone with no room to talk about rudeness and insensitivity, it is these few.

Worst of all though, is what is slowly happening to meaning and our ability to even find words to communicate with each other, words which will not set off another "shitstorm" and derail any discussion we try to have about anything. I'm hoping that some of those who are talented in the use of language who have commented on this in various posts, will repeat those thoughts and any others they may have, in this thread too. I think this is the most serious problem of all -- the corruption of language and meaning via enforced redefinition by even well-meaning ideology. The end does not justify the means, and it is not worth it.

When someone "messes with" rationality, which is what the twisting of meaning and logic that we see in these threads is, I don't take that kindly. We see the attacks on rationality clearly enough when it comes from the Right, but do we recognize it when it comes from the Left? It's the same animal, wearing a different outfit -- and for the same purpose... getting us to lay down our own thought and judgement in the service of someone else's agenda. To me, an attack on rationality itself is as serious as any can be, short of violence... much more serious than some passing offense taken. (I learned long ago not to fall for that, which is why I recognize it. Similarly, those here standing against it are least vulnerable to it; those joining in with it on the other hand, have a problem -- one which they are making themselves blind to.)

I'm not advocating that anything in particular be done, and if nothing is done and it goes on this way indefinitely that's fine with me - "no skin off my back" as they say. But there's no doubt about this: the problem will continue as long as this behavior by these few continues, it's that simple. The obvious question is, is it likely that the few will stop on their own? It doesn't seem so, unless possibly some peer encouragement could help.

The one thing I never hear about and can't quite figure out... where does truth figure in? How does truth get through the gauntlet -- that string of prohibited adjectives in the CS? That's where the answer that's provided seems to be "you take your chances". That isn't really good enough. I know how to say what someone wants to hear and/or stay out of trouble, and I know how to say the truth, but I don't know how to do both at the same time. And if I can't talk about what's true, then it's not worth getting into.

If I could speak freely, I could be clearer. But this is the best I can do under the circumstances. Btw I believe in being as gentle as possible with people, but that can't be the only consideration. Content has to matter, truth has to matter - or why do it?

Posted by Waiting For Everyman | Sun May 20, 2012, 09:19 AM (163 replies)

DU's tolerance is almost non-existent.

Anyone can be tolerant toward oneself, or those one likes. That isn't tolerance, it's preference. Just slap the "bigot label" (rightly OR most often wrongly) on anyone, and they can be attacked at will. Even Pres. Obama has been called a bigot here, which shows that almost anyone is fair game. Point out the obvious though, that there's essentially no difference between one rationalized-hate and the other, and the sky will fall.

On the bus pic though: it's effective but also promotes a fallacy, in that only one religion is associated with flying planes into buildings. (And one has to wonder what kind of crap science promotes knowingly false statements?) Secondly, there's plenty of faith in science. The two are flip sides of the same coin. As long as anything is unknown there will be faith in science. Zealots of any flavor have the most in common with each other.
Posted by Waiting For Everyman | Thu May 10, 2012, 12:00 PM (2 replies)

To those of us who are missing anyone today...

and to those who are gone from us, whether temporarily or permanently. I think this is really beautiful while at the same time, not too "mushy", and rarest of all... cheerful and upbeat.

Posted by Waiting For Everyman | Tue May 8, 2012, 11:43 AM (0 replies)


That was so... civil-like.

28,872 posts since July 6, 2003

So (according to some) all that matters is who owns the site -- not the posters who make the content (for free I might add, and pay to be here). Well, the downward spiral is underway. I've seen that exact same sentiment expressed and this same progression of attitudes before on other message boards, and I know how it goes from here. So before we get there, this is for all of us (past and present) as well as the OP... we will all eventually scatter to the four winds one way or another, but that does not mean we are valueless like disposable paper cups that are tossed aside...

"Here where the angels have appeared and are gone
Your face like an ember glows in the dawn

But I want you to remember --
All wild deeds live on... "

(And ps... to misconstrue the lines above as in any way negative, is to have no clue what they mean in which case there is no need to know now. Thanks.)
Posted by Waiting For Everyman | Sat May 5, 2012, 11:46 AM (1 replies)

If how H&M looks to outsiders is a concern...

what about making it a "private forum" which is only visible when logged in as a member? Lots of message boards have forums like that.

Wouldn't that also make posts here less likely to turn up in outside search engines?

Posted by Waiting For Everyman | Thu May 3, 2012, 12:06 PM (14 replies)

"Taking offense" at anything is something I don't care about and don't do.

What anyone says or thinks about me has no effect on my value as a person whatsoever. It doesn't diminish me, or elevate me. The opinion of me that matters is mine, and no one can change that but me. If someone looks down on me then that tells me they have very bad taste and are clueless, and clueless people with bad taste bore me to distraction, so it all works out fine. I have zero interest in critiquing people, and I don't think very highly of those who do. It tells me a lot about a person.

What matters to me is getting to what people are trying to say, not how they say it. People can be lousy at the "how" and be great at the "what". Or vice versa. The "what" is the gift, the "how" is the wrapping. I'll take a diamond in a paper bag over a pile of shit in an beautiful box any day.

What passes for values today is such a joke. Sad, really. But there is poetic justice - people who insist on garbage thinking have that to live with then. They may make other people who listen to it miserable but they are miserable too, so how smart is that? I detour far around dopes who can't figure that much out, so their words and opinions? Left in the dust at a distance.
Posted by Waiting For Everyman | Thu May 3, 2012, 11:14 AM (0 replies)
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