Welcome to DU! The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards. Join the community: Create a free account Support DU (and get rid of ads!): Become a Star Member Latest Breaking News General Discussion The DU Lounge All Forums Issue Forums Culture Forums Alliance Forums Region Forums Support Forums Help & Search

MellowDem

MellowDem's Journal
MellowDem's Journal
April 12, 2012

Another crappy article that misses its audience completely...

Starting off with "dear white folks" equal complete failure, because many "white folks" already know and understand the idea of white privilege, and the vast majority of people, of any color, fail to acknowledge their own privileges.

Now, I wonder how many minds this article will change or open up? Not many. Not with this sort of bumbling rhetoric.

Also, to assume saying "we're all Martin" means that white people think they would be treated the same in the same circumstances is a mighty crazy presumption to make.

Anyways, as usual, an author articulates the idea of privilege in probably the least effective way possible, and overgeneralizes while doing it.

If you want to start convincing people to examine their privilege, whatever it is, try to do more good than harm please. These terribly written articles aren't helping at all.

Hell, at least address the arguments your opponent makes. The biggest rebuttal from conservatives I see about the Martin case is that there is far more black on black crime that the black community doesn't seem to care about at all. Hell, that deserves quite a rebuttal as well as an explanation of privilege. I wish we had smarter, more savvy people on our side. This shit just makes it worse.

April 4, 2012

Your friend seems narrowminded and bigoted...

I mean, whites just can't wait to say the "n-word" with glee in any context? Really? I mean, it's like she's got a certain broad-brushed, negative stereotype about whites in her mind here.

As for "so and so can say this but others can't", the logic of such an argument is poor.

Now, if somebody from the KKK uses the n-word, will it have a powerful effect? Only to the extent the power the word is given. Now, by hoping that only black people will use it, but whites won't, how does that take away from it being used as a racial slur by racists? It doesn't at all as far as I can tell.

And what about other races saying it? The discussion from your friend just seemed a little simple I guess.

I am white, and have no inclination to say the word. I understand the incredible sensitivity to it. But I also understand context.

Really, telling whites they can never say it in any context, even quoting other people, seems to only give the word more power to racist whites who do say it, since they have now broken this "taboo". The oversensitivity to it, and to race in general, by some is part of the problem in many ways. Some whites now "refuse to see race" and won't partake in discussions about race because they have been told that it is offensive to even talk about it. How is that addressing the problems of race and racism? It doesn't. The whole n-word oversensitivity by some is just a subset of that idea. I've seen some black people, like your friend, who seem to assume that all whites really want to say the word and actually care about wanting to say it. The truth is, many white people could care less about ever using the word. To me, it's giving the word a lot more power to racists who do use it.

I have seen comedic sketches of this numerous times, where a white guy and his black friends are standing around, and the black guys are using the word with each other, and the white guy, wanting to fit in, uses it in the same way, and then everyone looks at him like what did you just say? I gotta say, I find the whole thing kinda juvenile. It seems to promote a sort of playground "no girls allowed" attitude of exclusion and a "nana boo boo" sort of logic. If the white guy is really that "seperate" from his friends that he causes offense so easily, it makes you wonder what the point of being offended in such a case is? Besides exclusion for the sake of claiming a privilege. I guess I find it funny that many instances where the white person using it is criticized is simply a case of the white person wanting to fit in and be accepted. The reaction basically says, "you aren't one of us, never will be, and are not accepted". Of course, this only applies to black people who use the word among themselves. I realize there are many black people who don't and find it offensive regardless of who says it, which actually seems consistent at least.

I remember way back on a reality TV show, a black guy would good naturedly make fun of a white guy by calling him a "white ass", when the white guy called him a "black ass" in the same good natured way, the other guy was incredibly offended. Again, what is the point of being offended in that context other than exclusion, seperation, and to claim a sort of privilege?

Such attitudes would seem to only make white people be extremely uncomfortable and overly sensitive around black people at all times, always on their toes. Gotta wonder how our already segregated society will more easily come together with that sort of "on the razor's edge" attitude.

March 27, 2012

Not at all...

class privilege trumps all in many cases. Many white males get very little privilege from being white or male depending on location etc. etc.

Class privilege pervades everywhere and has the most real, tangible, and very noticeable privileges.

March 27, 2012

Saying that being a white male...

is like playing T-ball and insures you'll get on base. That's not true in all situations.

It seems to ignore all the other privileges out there, of which there are many, that can have even greater impacts on a persons life than their race and gender.

I agree with the point that being a white male, all other things being equal, will generally be the race/gender combo to get you the most advantages.

But how much advantage each individual derives from such privileges vary widely, and certainly don't alone insure that you'll do well.
Many white males are disadvantaged in other ways, and telling them they are privileged in this way seems the least effective means of getting them to see their privilege. And not acknowledging that white males can have less privilege in other ways is a great way to not get them to become allies.

The thing is, many white males aren't part of the privileged class. And the sooner they see that, the better. The sooner they understand how privilege works against them, the sooner they'll be willing to admit the privileges they do have afforded to them.

March 27, 2012

As a white male...

I can tell you it makes some valid points, and some invalid points.

Hardly tackles it perfectly. Seems to do more harm than good really.

March 27, 2012

It's more complicated than that...

Not all white males are part of the privileged class. There are quite a few minorities and females that are much more part of the privileged class than white males.

And it's incredibly insulting when someone else tells a person how they should feel about their life as a white male. Their feelings take precedence over your assumptions. You assuming their life is sweet only because they are white and a male is pretty staggeringly insulting and ignores the incredibly huge amount of other factors that go into making "life sweet".

No doubt, all other things being equal, being white and male has the most advantages in most situations. Then again, let's drop white males out of it, but leave all other categories in. You'll find that being a white female helps in a lot of ways as well. Or being Asian. Indeed, all classifications have privileges of sorts, some much more than others obviously, and in different ways.

White males who aren't part of the privileged class see it clearly. The issue is that many are brainwashed by the right to blame these disadvantages on the others demanding equality of opportunity. But don't deny them the fact that they are at a disadvantage. They are. Get them to understand what is going on, that's the hard part. And unfortunately, your sort of rhetoric tends to do the opposite.

You ignore so many other factors besides race/gender, like class, that it makes your broad generalizations unconvincing and your assumptions insulting.

March 27, 2012

My problem with this kind of analysis...

is how overly simplified and broad it usually is, and how it alienates a lot of potential allies.

White males, as a whole, have the most privilege of any racial/sex combo in the US. But that's quite a specific claim. Not to mention, on an individual level, how much that privilege helps a person varies extraordinarily.

For many white males, their privileges they recieve from being white and male are outweighed by many disadvantages of class.

I'm all for making people understand the privileges they have in life. Very few people aknowledge them. But everyone has privileges, and to focus on just "white males" not only alienates such from considering their privileges when they can see many things working against them, but also ignores the many other types of privilege which are incredibly, if not much more relevant and powerful nowadays.

I see far more posts about white male privilege than class privilege, and class privilege has an incredible amount of power in the US, much more so than race or sex does anymore, on a general level.

For example, for the author to say that being a white male automatically makes it like "T-ball" is a staggeringly ignorant quote. The amount of privilege he has to say that is astounding. It's just a different sort of privilege he is unknowingly invoking, and in an article that's supposed to be about privilege at that. This type of argumentation is the worst sort.

The thing is, the article makes relevant points about privilege and especially the right's attitude, it just also makes several horrible points and does so in the worst possible way. If you want to convince white males on the right that people have privileges and to examine them, this is not the way to do it.

March 26, 2012

It can be a choice...

and it doesn't help when you have political ideologies that promote fear and paranoia as part of their worldview. It makes people much more likely to be fearful and perceive others as potential threats. The whole obsession that many conservatives have with being able to carry guns anywhere, anytime reflects this mindset of fear.

Obviously, if a person is raised to fear and hate black people, how much "choice" they have will be a little more up for grabs I suppose, which is sad in its own way. And society creates perceptions of others in ways individuals cannot control. But if you can at least educate people, you'll give them a chance to make the right choice and confront their prejudices.

There's a reason FDR said the greatest thing we have to fear is fear itself. It can lead to a lot of human misery. And really, living in fear is no way to live. I feel sorry for people, in a way, that have that sort of worldview.

March 26, 2012

The sad part is...

that the perception of young black males as the "other" continues as long as they continue to be locked up and arrested in disproportionate numbers and shown through numerous other mediums to be dangerous. Nevermind the circumstances that cause this to be the present reality is largely beyond their control. It's a vicious cycle.

I think the perception of young black males is slowly changing, very slowly though. Until many of the gaps between young black males and the rest of society are lessened more and eventually eliminated, negative perceptions will remain.

What's sad is that these gaps haven't closed much at all since the Civil Rights Movement, and in some cases have only grown. History, continued segregation, the War on Drugs, concentrated poverty, etc. have all been working against any gaps being closed, and keep the negative perceptions present, and continue the vicious cycle. It angers me that we haven't been able to get the political will together to address these issues, and what scares me about Republicans is that their policies will only exacerbate these issues, as they live in their fantasy land where "everyone has an equal opportunity" and "anyone can make it in America". With that kind of delusional thinking, it's no wonder many Republicans have very low opinions of young black males.

March 26, 2012

I wasn't drawing an equivalence...

just explaining the underlying issue of why people prejudge and make decisions based on prejudice.

Profile Information

Member since: Thu Jul 24, 2008, 05:59 PM
Number of posts: 5,018

Journal Entries

Latest Discussions»MellowDem's Journal