Emrys
Emrys's JournalOn Twitter, BBC Verify journalist Shayan Sardarizadeh has been doing fantastic work
debunking misattributed videos etc.
His feed is here: https://twitter.com/Shayan86
More about BBC Verify here: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-65650822
Nonsense.
Twitter's never been purely anything.
Some on DU behave as if they've just discovered Twitter since Musk took over, and it and other social media outlets (and mainstream media, come to that) - including DU at times - were pure and unsullied by disinformation and ill-intentioned actors in some halcyon past that never existed.
Those of us who've been using Twitter intensely for some time know this is untrue, have always been wary, and are adapting - not without a great deal of annoyance - to developments.
If liberal voices have been silenced, I must have been hallucinating last night when I spent a good deal of time reading tweets from them about my home country (Scotland), Ukraine and events in Israel, among other things.
If people use Twitter's built-in timelines and feeds, they've always been slaves to the algorithms of the day, as they are on Facebook, YouTube, Threads, BlueSky, etc. etc. It's just more blatant on Twitter now.
There are ways of using Twitter that go a long way towards sidestepping these. Some DUers use that knowledge to try to present other DUers with solid information. It's a thankless task, but I guess they're not doing it for gratitude, which is just as well.
Anyone on Twitter who takes advice from Musk -
not just about who to follow, but about anything - is pretty much a lost cause anyway.
Those who've been using Twitter to follow events in Ukraine generally already knew about the two accounts he promoted and either ignored them, muted them or blocked them (and quite likely also had Musk blocked too, so wouldn't have seen his advice unless echoed by accounts they didn't have muted or blocked - I only know about it from DU).
I don't know about the effects of Musk's move to censor headlines - I suspect the results may be mixed. In some cases, it will lessen click-through - his apparent intent - in others, it may mean people have to click through if they want to know what the story's about.
One Scottish newspaper on one of my Twitter lists had long been employing what were basically clickbait tactics, with teasing headlines repeated as text in their Tweet, and the essential details only being revealed if you bothered to click through. This change's effects on that are marginal.
Media outlets could adapt by including the headline information in their tweet text. The fact that few seem to have done this so far makes me wonder about the competence of their social media staff. Some of these tweets are probably automated, so they'll need to change their routines if that's the case.
As for his other move to stop displaying tweet stats unless you click on the tweet itself, I'm not clear what he's trying to do there, and don't really buy his explanation that he just wants a cleaner display. People are used to these stats being there, so they effectively don't clutter up the view anyway because constant elements usually don't stand out. They could give useful information - e.g. if there are replies to a tweet, people might click through to read them, but even before Musk, that stat wasn't reliable anyway, especially if you had a lot of accounts muted or blocked. He'd added a readout of the number of times a tweet had been viewed, mainly of interest to people who wanted a boost from knowing their tweets' visibility or possibly to potential or existing advertisers, so hiding that info behind a click seems counter-productive.
It all reeks of a bored supposed tech tinkering ineffectually with settings to keep himself occupied and look like he's doing something because he has no clue about what do with Twitter faced with the financial showdown it sounds like is imminent. The end results are just to add more annoyance to regular users' experience for no benefits.
The Room Next Door - Penny Mordaunt [Twitter video]
https://twitter.com/MrMichaelSpicer/status/1710232553649529128Michael Spicer does his usual incomparable turn as a backroom spin doctor responding via radio link to a politician's burblings, this time based on Mordaunt's gobsmacking Tory Party Conference speech. Spicer's input is satirical, Mordaunt was apparently deadly serious.
If you've not seen them before, it's worth checking out his previous sketches, a few of which are gathered here: https://twitter.com/i/events/1162655924353286144
You're welcome. Since various opportunist factions, not least the pro-Russian troll armies,
have been doing their best to stir the pot on social media, weaken the Canada-Ukraine alliance and brand Ukraine as Nazi all over again because of this Speaker's cock-up, I've fallen into doing a deep dive on the complications around the 14th and the horrendous brutality from all sides and lack of good choices that faced many in Eastern Europe in this period.
This Canadian-Ukrainian poster, Kobzar, has been especially helpful. I'll repeat some tweets of his I quoted on another thread the other day:
(The author deleted the first tweet because he felt he'd been a bit immoderate in the heat of the moment, but I'd already saved the text.)
@CanadianKobzar
Important context re the 14th Galician. They fought the soviets. Period. Really sick of ignorant westerners parroting Russian propaganda and pretending they know anything about history.
If you really want to stop Nazism and genocide - stand against Russia. Innocent people TODAY are being killed by Russia.
https://twitter.com/CanadianKobzar/status/1706145009433485334
Ms_J_ 🇺🇦
@_Ms_J
That is what I read. From what I understand, Ukrainians were in the middle of a hornet’s nest, trying to figure out which side would give them at least a path to independence. But Hitler and Stalin were brutal to dissenters.
Kobzar ✙🇺🇦🇨🇦
@CanadianKobzar
It’s even more complicated. Germany helped Ukraine establish an independent state in 1918. Germany in 1940 said they would do the same and help fight Poland and Russia. Pretty important context.
Kobzar ✙🇺🇦🇨🇦
@CanadianKobzar
Replying to @CanadianKobzar
Germany promised Ukrainians to fight along side them and establish an independent Ukrainian state. Ukrainians had every reason to believe them, since in 1918 the German state did just that - fight and help establish the first Ukrainian State. 7/25
More detailed historical background in the thread that follows this tweet:
https://twitter.com/CanadianKobzar/status/1698466796762701835
@CanadianKobzar
🧵FELLAS! STAY AWHILE AND LISTEN! Today I wanted to dedicate some time debunking russia's most prevalent myth, the "Ukrainian nazi" myth. Without a doubt this is the most widespread, destructive, misleading and hypocritical lie spread by russia. 1/25
He then followed up with this long tweet today:
https://twitter.com/CanadianKobzar/status/1707048875163332856
@CanadianKobzar
So I’m going so make my position clear and I don’t want vatniks, tankies, freedumbers and others putting words in my mouth. After this I will not speak on it again.
First of all, it was wrong and stupid to have a member of the 14th Galician in parliament. It was equally wrong and stupid to applaud him. It was the right decision for the speaker to step down.
To our Polish and Jewish friends - please accept our apology. We do not support Nazis and condemn the horrors that were done to you, including the actions of the 14th and others.
It is also wrong to see the 14th as heroes. They were not. They should not be emulated or commended by anyone today.
However, with regards to Hunka and others of the 14th saying “bruh he was a Nazi” therefore evil is a narrow minded position.
Ukraine in World War II did not have the luxury of good choices like those in the west.
If you wanted to fight you could side with the Bolsheviks (who hated you and genocided Ukrainians in the holodomor), side with Poland (who hated you, discriminated against you and killed you in the pacification of Galicia), side with UPA (who were extremists and would kill you for disagreeing), side with Germany (who lied to you while speaking Ukrainian, pretended to be your ally, but said they would kill you if you didn’t side with them) or go on your own without any support, which was essentially suicide. Picking the wrong side meant death of you and your family.
Or you could choose not to fight which would lead to your death or being sent to a concentration camp or slave labour camp (which is what happened to most, including my family).
None of these are good options.
This is NOT a justification for any wrong doing. But it must be said to understand that history is complicated. Especially in World War II. Everyone had dirty hands and no one fit cleanly in “good” or “evil” - there were only victims. This isn’t Call of Duty.
Everyone (including the allies by the way) are guilty of heinous war crimes.
While many on this platform has made it clear, Ukrainians should just chose death because we don’t have a right to defend ourselves - I would disagree and say again it’s not our place to impose our moralistic hindsight on them for making decisions we consider wrong today.
Hunka may have joined the 14th to liberate Ukraine. Making a poor choice in allies should not be the sole reason to condemn someone. There should be more reasons. Otherwise every single communist on the planet is guilty of the holodomor, Katyn etc simply by association.
However. If he joined to kill Jews and Poles and actually did commit war crimes - fuck him. Send him to jail for the rest of his life. I will be the first to condemn him if it is shown he has.
In any event, what is just as appalling is there is an actual genocide in Ukraine happening. Yet all the outraged are entirely silent on the Russian genocide in Ukraine. Why? Because to them this is not about right or wrong but “scoring points against those libs”.
We can’t change the past, but we can stop more Ukrainians from dying today. Let’s make a better future instead of mindlessly arguing about the past.
As some more background to the dynamics of the time and the problems the Germans had with the loyalty of foreign Waffen SS formations, these videos decribe mutinies against the Germans by Waffen SS troops. In the second example in 1944, the troops then joined up with the French Resistance.
This video covers the postwar resettlement of the 14th:
I read today that the Polish Education Minister announced that he was seeking Hunka's extradition, but I think that was just a cheap pre-election stunt, not least because there's no extradition treaty between Canada and Poland, and Canada wouldm't extradite in any case unless there was evidence of any crimes, which has never been found for Hunka over the years. There's been no confirmatory announcement from the Polish government, so I suspect he was freelancing.
That community note uses very broad brush
The actual division Hunka served in was examined by the Canadian Commission of Inquiry on War Crimes in 1986. It found:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/14th_Waffen_Grenadier_Division_of_the_SS_(1st_Galician)
Elsewhere the article states:
The division did destroy several Polish communities in western Ukraine during the winter and spring of 1944. Specifically, the 4th and 5th SS Police Regiments have been accused of murdering Polish civilians in the course of anti-guerilla activity. At the time of their actions, those units were not yet under Divisional command, but were under German police command. Yale historian Timothy Snyder noted that the division's role in the Massacres of Poles in Volhynia and Eastern Galicia was limited, because the murders were primarily carried out by the Ukrainian Insurgent Army.
Some historical context from Wikipedia and a Canadian Twitter feed:
The Ukrainian veteran in question fought in the 14th Waffen Grenadier Division of the Waffen SS.
https://twitter.com/CanadianKobzar/status/1706139462890139720
@CanadianKobzar
Important context re the 14th Galician. They fought the soviets. Period. Really sick of ignorant westerners parroting Russian propaganda and pretending they know anything about history.
If you really want to stop Nazism and genocide - stand against Russia. Innocent people TODAY are being killed by Russia.
https://twitter.com/CanadianKobzar/status/1706145009433485334
Ms_J_ 🇺🇦
@_Ms_J
That is what I read. From what I understand, Ukrainians were in the middle of a hornet’s nest, trying to figure out which side would give them at least a path to independence. But Hitler and Stalin were brutal to dissenters.
Kobzar ✙🇺🇦🇨🇦
@CanadianKobzar
It’s even more complicated. Germany helped Ukraine establish an independent state in 1918. Germany in 1940 said they would do the same and help fight Poland and Russia. Pretty important context.
Kobzar ✙🇺🇦🇨🇦
@CanadianKobzar
Replying to @CanadianKobzar
Germany promised Ukrainians to fight along side them and establish an independent Ukrainian state. Ukrainians had every reason to believe them, since in 1918 the German state did just that - fight and help establish the first Ukrainian State. 7/25
More detailed historical background in the thread that follows this tweet:
https://twitter.com/CanadianKobzar/status/1698466796762701835
@CanadianKobzar
🧵FELLAS! STAY AWHILE AND LISTEN! Today I wanted to dedicate some time debunking russia's most prevalent myth, the "Ukrainian nazi" myth. Without a doubt this is the most widespread, destructive, misleading and hypocritical lie spread by russia. 1/25
From what is written there, if the 14th Division was guilty of any atrocities during the war, no evidence has been found to date.
Well, assuming you mean that you've added Tickle to your blocklist, we have a solution
to all these tedious repetitive endless uninformative meta posts moaning about some DUers choosing to still use Twitter that clutter up General Discussion.
Just block us all. Seriously, block me now if you haven't already.
That way your DU experience will remain unsullied, and those of us blocked can carry on and share and make use of the information we find on Twitter without rehashing the same old arguments time after time after time.
A label of "elite" from Putin seems the equivalent of a red tunic in Star Trek's original series
The parade of elite Russian forces dispatched and disposed of in Ukraine looks set to continue:
March 3, 2022: Putin Thought Ukraine Would Fall Quickly. An Airport Battle Proved Him Wrong.
March 18, 2022: Russian state TV confirms death of regional airborne forces commander in Ukraine
May 26, 2022: Russian tactical failures in Ukraine extend to airborne forces, UK says
May 27, 2022: Elite Kremlin troops ‘poorly equipped’ for Ukraine war
August 3, 2022: 8.5K Russian Airborne Troops Wounded in Ukraine, Commander Says
August 21, 2022: Russian paratroopers facing crippling morale, severe losses in Ukraine
September 1, 2022: Russia Lost 900 ‘Elite’ Soldiers in Ukraine Fighting — Report
October 25, 2022: Elite Russian Intelligence Unit Suffers Major Losses in Ukraine – BBC
November 24, 2022: Vladimir Putin sending elite airborne troops in bid to stop Ukrainian breakthrough in east, says UK
December 16, 2022: ‘Wiped out’: War in Ukraine has decimated a once feared Russian brigade The bloody fate of the 200th Separate Motor Rifle Brigade is emblematic of Vladimir Putin’s derailed invasion plans
February 1, 2023: Half of Putin’s elite airborne troops ‘wiped out’ in just six months
February 7, 2023: After bloody failures in Ukraine, Russians are reconsidering the role of their military's 'elite' paratroopers
March 21, 2023: Russia’s most elite troops use Soviet-era paper maps
March 23, 2023: Putin's top troops are being 'decimated' as Russia relies too much on so-called 'elite' forces to wage war in Ukraine
It depends how you use it.
I'm entirely read-only, so I'm basically a fee rider who costs Musk money. The only traces of my use I leave are blocking the ads that interperse some threads and muting or blocking those whose tweets I choose not to see for various reasons.
I do selectively post tweets if I think they're significant enough to outweigh any considerations of sending traffic Musk's way, but I always include transcripts and standalone versions of any images I can isolate, so it's individual DUers' choice whether they click through.
I also sometimes post roundups of memes found on Twitter on specific momentous occasions, which people seem to enjoy a lot. I directly link the Twitter images, so they're basically a drain on Twitter without adding any traffic that can be used as a selling point to Musk's advertisers (I'm sure Musk would love to ban this sort of hotlinking, but so far it doesn't seem to have crossed the threshold of his ketamine-addled consciousness, and it might be tricky to do without unintended consequences anyway).
The information I find on Twitter after a few years of building up trusted sources can be used to counter Musk's various agendas. The tweets I see are generally overwhelmingly hostile to Musk in ways that exceed anything you'll find on DU.
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Member since: Mon Sep 7, 2009, 12:57 AM
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