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Member since: Fri Dec 10, 2010, 11:36 PM
Number of posts: 53,661

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Some of the clinging to religion is defensiveness, people say their kids are a burden on society.

So they end up with pro-lifers since they support their having given birth. The parents need moral support.

There was a thread here on DU about a famous person saying their having given birth to DS child was 'a sin.' So presumably, they advocated forced abortion to prevent this child living.

Some parents can't afford tests for determining DS. Other parents have children with no sign of disability before or after birth, and then are abandoned by family and friends for the unexpected problems arise.

With rhetoric like that, along with other things thrown in parents' faces, they seek justification for having had, and caring for a disabled child. I rememeber an ER episode years ago that I was shocked watching.

The star of the show, a physician, argued against giving treatment to a girl who had severe disabilities and was in a wheel chair. They said the mother was indulging herself to seek medical care for her, she should let her die. He called the girl 'a pet.'

You don't get much worse than that in saying who and who is not a human.

So there is bitterness, and lot of parents are angry at pro-choice as they feel that they are saying their child shouldn't be a burden. But in areas that serve the disabled well, generally progressive, liberal, mainly Democratic, they feel acceptance.

I've got to get some sleep. Hope that made sense.

Very much what Carl Sagan said in his latter interviews:

Carl Sagan wrote The Demon Haunted World (© 1995) as “...a personal statement, reflecting my love affair with science.

But there’s a second reason...

Science is more than a body of knowledge; it is a way of thinking. I have a foreboding of an America in my children’s or grandchildren’s time – when the United States is a service and information economy; when nearly all the key manufacturing industries have slipped away to other countries; when awesome technological powers are in the hands of a very few, and no one representing the public interest can even grasp the issues;

when the people have lost the ability to set their own agendas or knowledgeably question those in authority; when, clutching our crystals and nervously consulting our horoscopes, our critical faculties in decline, unable to distinguish between what feels good and what’s true, we slide, almost without noticing, back into superstition and darkness...”

If we want to know how did we get to this state of affairs, he said:

This world as we know it is only just one brief moment that appears to us to be an endless horizon of time... this time grants comfort... and this comfort breeds complacency... and from complacency stems ultimate stupidity and eventual destruction.

There was too complacency after the success of the New Deal and the return home of the WW2 veterans. People thought the merit of public education, public infrastructure, the spirit lifting national park system, research into all forms of science, was proven and could never be discarded. Little did they realize that dark forces like the Koch brothers and other plutocrats planned otherwise and took over the media and the political arena with their Trojan horses. They have transformed a great deal of the USA into the state it was before the United States Constitution was passed, and hate all the Amendments that were designed to correct the flaws within the original document.

It has been said that the expectation of the philosophers who created the system, was for it to continue to be reformed. George Washington said he hoped 'America would become the most liberal of all nations.'

Now the wealthy forces of plutocracy, theocracy, oligarchy or feudalism has been very effective. They have over the last half centure turned the people against the ideas of the Enlightenment and New Deal, using media, religion and conspiracies for the other side of the political spectrum to ensure they get power from all sides. It's worked brilliantly. We've also worked against ourselves, constantly:

“The chief deficiency I see in the skeptical movement is its polarization: Us vs. Them — the sense that we have a monopoly on the truth; that those other people who believe in all these stupid doctrines are morons; that if you're sensible, you'll listen to us; and if not, to hell with you. This is nonconstructive. It does not get our message across. It condemns us to permanent minority status.”

But Sagan said specifically on how we lose democracy:

“If we can't think for ourselves, if we're unwilling to question authority, then we're just putty in the hands of those in power. But if the citizens are educated and form their own opinions, then those in power work for us. In every country, we should be teaching our children the scientific method and the reasons for a Bill of Rights. With it comes a certain decency, humility and community spirit. In the demon-haunted world that we inhabit by virtue of being human, this may be all that stands between us and the enveloping darkness.”

Good grief, I've known so many compassionate vets in Texas, one wept with me when my

kitty finally expired from FLV.

After several times in the animal ER with IVs which always brought him back to full health for a few months in his latter years, I left him with the vet as I went to work. He called me at work and reported he slept well.

I got off work, went to see him with the vet. He got up for a moment, took a breath and laid down as if to sleep, not breathing anymore. He was gone. I was in my 9th month and it was heartbreaking losing my furry friend.

This vet in the OP is sociopath and media culture celebrates this. Some insist on denying that all they want. But the proof is all around us.

Carl Sagan's opinion on media:

...The dumbing down of America is most evident in the slow decay of substantive content in the enormously influential media, the 30 second sound bites (now down to 10 seconds or less), lowest common denominator programming, credulous presentations on pseudoscience and superstition, but especially a kind of celebration of ignorance...

An extraterrestrial being, newly arrived on Earth - scrutinizing what we mainly present to our children in television, radio, movies, newspapers, magazines, the comics, and many books - might easily conclude that we are intent on teaching them murder, rape, cruelty, superstition, credulity, and consumerism.

We keep at it, and through constant repetition, many of them finally get it. What kind of society could we create if, instead, we drummed into them science and a sense of hope?

~ Carl Sagan, The Demon-Haunted World: Science as a Candle in the Dark

This is the Idiocracy in motion, it's not a satire. We are 'monkey see, monkey do' beings, nothing wrong with that, it's one of our greatest strengths for passing knowledge. It's how we learn.

Highly visual, fast moving and with sound, there is nothing as effective as television and movies to teach us. We generally have no filter to resist, we take in the data and it never leaves us. Every single thing we see and hear is a learning process. We can't escape, unless we turn it all off. And then we are in danger of being isolated from the majority as they will be talking a different language than us.

Emotional content in any venue is the most remembered because it engages the limbic system. It goes straight past the buffering part of consciousness, where reflection, reason and logic reside and is registered in the area we call the subsconscious. With physical stimulation at the same time, it is as hard wired as being beaten or raped.

This has been exploited in the last few decades without restraint and in the most negative and nihilistic fashion. It is obviously not done to favor any of us or any living thing. We are being channeled to act as killing machines. And to glory in it. So I'm not surprised at the latest manifestation of it.


Well, we've noted that hypocrisy along with their racism against Obama and others, but I support

their actions regarding their food, etc. Some of them are trying to hold onto civil society to protect themselves against corporate rule.

This beast is not an all Obama or all USA trade agreement. It's been signed on since 2005, and Obama hasn't pandered to one side or the other. It was a bad deal in 2005, and has been waiting for 10 years to be reformed, then seen through the Congress.

It will still be debated and may not pass muster in Congress. The fast tracking only means no amendments at that level because that won't work with international agreements. That would be unilateral changes that the rest of the nations were not involved in making, thus negating all these years of negotiations.

What I see as Obama's purpose is to keep us in the trade loop, as honestly, China, etc. don't need us. We'd be completely shut out and we need trade more than some think we do. It's an unfortunate reality that this is no longer FDR's America with as many choices as there were then.

We are for the most part, urban and need goods shipped in. We no longer have the traditional industrial base we built through private capital funding the war effort of WW2. We no longer have open land and resources to use to make goods and build things.

We have not been successful in getting much passed in terms of our relations with other nations. The GOP has refused UN resolutions to end forced child marriages, abuse of the disabled, and many others. Because of their fetus fetish.

Congress might have refused to ratify the nuclear proliferation treaty or the chemical weapons convention. They withhold aid to any country that does not meet their radical ideology and hate the UN since they are Birchers, just like almost all CTers are, just packaged for a new generation, with the same result as the Koch agenda revealed by Bernie Sanders, but all dressed up as civil libertarianism.

Of course, they won't admit that they are a creation of the business class, first and foremost and no matter what they think they are pushing, it's for the business class.

Their reasons for not ratifying treaties?

Because: evil NWO Illuminati UN baby killer homosexualist commies.

Or because: Obama. Carter. FDR.

Or whatever their hate du jour is going to be, as time passes and they reinforce the rule of Ayn Rand's global Supermen.

I support those Europeans who are involved in things like this, but not the ones who are anarchists as that just plays into the hands of the plutocrats in the end. JMHO.

We need more of the spirit of "liberty, equality, fraternity" here in the USA. Love this pic best:

But all the pictures are beautiful. What an excellent OP.

Loved the "America's BFF: Best French Friend. Ever." reference made there, too!

My opinion of him was always good.. It skyrocketed after he said this:

Kareem Abdul-Jabbar: Colleges Need to Stop Protecting Sexual Predators

We need to reexamine the culture on campus—especially among student athletes

Imagine a neighborhood where dozens of women were violently assaulted on a continuing basis. And that the local police chose not to bother investigating 40 percent of assault victims’ complaints. Would you continue to live in that neighborhood? Probably not. Especially if you had children.

That dangerous neighborhood actually exists in the United States. It’s called college.

This year American parents will be sending about 12 million of their 18- to 24-year-old daughters to attend colleges and universities. Instead of the ivy-covered walls, Homecoming bonfires, administrative support, and lifelong friendships we’d hoped for them, we’ll be sending many of them toward groping hands, drug-laced drinks, administrative indifference, and lifelong trauma. Witness the conviction this week of two former football players at Vanderbilt University for perpetrating and videotaping the rape of a fellow student.


to stevenleser:


Jabbar recounts this at the link:

A few years ago, I saw a 60 Minutes interview with singer Mary J. Blige in which she described her own sexual molestation at age five as well as the brutal violence men in her neighborhood committed against women.

“Men just seemed like they didn’t have any mercy,” she said. Of course, she didn’t mean all men; she was commenting on a child’s view of the world through observing ceaseless assaults. That phrase has resonated with me. I don’t want one more child to see the world that way. Legislation won’t solve the problem, but it’s (a) step. A step toward mercy.

He's spoken out about gay rights, police shootings, many things. May he make a full and speedy recovery.

Seems like the sun and rainbows follow that man around!

I mean I know Souza picked the angle for the shot. But rainbows are so briefly in the sky. Just like living in a vase of flowers, that man is at times.

The joy and energy radiates from him when he is with people, they feel the goodness. He's got a quality that would be mystical is he exploited it, but he doesn't, he's just natural.

I miss him already. Time is flying. Enjoy.

Daesh Driving School?

Of course they did...

Skinner will announce when that part of the TOS comes into effect:

Vote for Democrats.

Winning elections is important — therefore, advocating in favor of Republican nominees or in favor of third-party spoiler candidates that could split the vote and throw an election to our conservative opponents is never permitted on Democratic Underground.

But that does not mean that DU members are required to always be completely supportive of Democrats. During the ups-and-downs of politics and policy-making, it is perfectly normal to have mixed feelings about the Democratic officials we worked hard to help elect. When we are not in the heat of election season, members are permitted to post strong criticism or disappointment with our Democratic elected officials, or to express ambivalence about voting for them.

In Democratic primaries, members may support whomever they choose. But when general election season begins, DU members must support Democratic nominees (EXCEPT in rare cases where a non-Democrat is most likely to defeat the conservative alternative, or where there is no possibility of splitting the liberal vote and inadvertently throwing the election to the conservative alternative). For presidential contests, election season begins when both major-party nominees become clear. For non-presidential contests, election season begins on Labor Day.

Everyone here on DU needs to work together to elect more Democrats and fewer Republicans to all levels of American government. If you are bashing, trashing, undermining, or depressing turnout for our candidates during election season, we'll assume you are rooting for the other side.


Unfortunately, the 'bashing, trashing, undermining, or depressing turnout for our candidates' is LITERALLY changing the chance of DUers voting during the election season. I also cannot believe this kind of rhetoric ends at DU, because it is so practiced it must be part of a person's permanent mindset and they influence their friends, family and co-workers to be anti-Democratic.

Unless they have some kind of split personality, what they present here is who they really are in IRL. I know NO Democrats in real life in my precinct who say the word 'Democrat' with a snarl as I hear here, calling them all fakes, liars, sellouts, cowards and spineless, etc.

None of them attack candidates on the basis of their actions in all things. If we do not agree with someone (generally a DINO/pseudo Democrat pursing Libertarian outcomes that hurt our work to continue existing New Deal programs) we work around them, but don't waste our valuable time in the knee jerkism as I see here.

Constantly, where the standard narrative is to attack a Democrat without learning the facts behind the headlines. DU Is getting very weak in that regard. This is harmful to being able to motivate voters, such as those who are surfing the net looking for alternatives to Republican lunacies, and find nothing but insults in their searches here. I feel Skinner is wrong on the cut off date of Labor Day.

I don't expect those who say both parties are the same day in and day out, or I won't vote because XYZ, to change their minds after Labor Day in 2016. The Republicans have been in 'permanent election mode' since the 70s and this is why they keep winning elections and we are losing them by not supporting the Democratic Party. That and their strategy plays out here every single hour of the day:


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