Mc MikeMc Mike's Journal
Your first post brought up irrational phobias, like spiders and snakes. Your second post mocked my "actuarial stats" statement. So I looked up the stats to try to show you the difference in mortality rates, between irrational subconscious and conscious phobia driven fears, and rational subconsicous and conscious fears as described in Marge's archetypal phrase.
There's some things I agree with in your post 50, I'm not trying to alienate you, but do regard your statements vs the o.p. as alienating. But your "differ" ences from me, regarding my "expectations", puzzle me a bit. I don't pretend to tell women what they "should think" regarding the existence of a murderous threat from evil archetype oriented men. I observed their statements about what they do think, and assess the ideas myself. In this thread, you tell women what they should think, then say I'm doing so via my "expectations of what they should think". They say what they think, you say they think wrong, I say they think right but you think wrong, then you say I tell them what to think. At least, that's how I see things, and it confuses rather than wounds me.
One thing I notice, though, is you're sticking to your "4 or 3%" stat, and "11%" stat for men. It's helpful when you make claims like that to add a link to your source for that info. And you're brushing aside the fact that the killers of men and women are mostly always men (Over 90%, sez the Justice Dept.: http://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/htus8008.pdf "Males were convicted of the vast majority of homicides in the United States, representing 90.5% of the total number of offenders." ).
I suppose everybody has a healthy fear of being killed, but this o.p. argument is about the inter-relationship between men and women, and as we already established, men do most of the killing. Once in a blue moon, you'll get your aileen wuornoses, or your squeeky frommes, but they don't factor in much overall to tip the "murderer gender" scales.
You have things a bit backwards, it's not that "women are most affected so should be most fearful of the problem", it's that "men affect the murder rates in the most negative way (by driving them up). So women (and men) should be more cognizant of the problem", and think strategically and act tactically to deal with it. The Atwood archetype statement is a tactic, a strategy. I remember one quote that defined "power" as "the ability to understand and define phenomena, and make a change". Something like that. I think Atwood (and people who agree with her) are intelligently summing up the situation with the knowledge easily available at hand, are strategically thinking, and using archetypal concepts in a tactical way.
I've already inoculated myself against your "Mike pushes mortality salience" accusation -- that I "believe women are mentally weaker and should cower in fear" -- with my Yellowbelly analysis. Enjoy:
There's a fair amount of highly negative action in the 1 min clip, but the satire was more confirmational commentary than celebration. Katherine O'Hare is comedy gold, but Andrea Martin was the Queen of broad physical comedy in that show.
The next line, after your already-defused false "sexist mortal salience promoter" charge, seems like an admonition to "toughen up, ladies", about this "whole woman man killer" thing. The admonition is part of a phrasing argument you make to further a charge vs me of "sexism vs. women", and the phrase has 4 mentions of "men" and one of "women". So to sum up, that's "toughen up ladies...men men men men ... Mike is sexist." Ironic. It's tough to wrap my head around this one, aki.
Your next sentence states that I'm more sexist against men. Some prejudiced people, when called out on it, will say "I'm not racist, I hate everybody equally." Maybe I could re-tool that phrase in response to your charges.
We're still stuck on the "women fear death men valid?" half of the debate, so it seems senseless to discuss Atwood's correct observation, which I agree with, about "men fear women laughter valid.". Long deliberative observational analysis leaves me thinking that it's the only ascertainable "threat" from the archetypal woman gender that can be seen. I know one guy's observation is antecdotal, not definitive evidence, but I'm a big-picture thinker. I say laugh it up ladies, my feelings don't get hurt that easy. If bad guys could accept womens' laughs and modify their ideas/behavior as a result, the world would be a better place. The "laugh-ee" should take it as a gentle reproof from their betters, not like it's a gang of gossipy mean little old ladies from the village sewing circle standing around dRump in stocks, pointing at his small junk and raining down jeers. But I'm sorry for being totally sexist and insulting in my previous post to you, anyway, if that's how you saw it.
(This is overlong, aki, but here's a small diversionary antecdotal story. It has the added benefit of being all true. A young lady that I knew hit 5 different businesses in an armed robbery spree in our neighborhood. (Drug problems) We were never close, she was ~ 6 years younger than me, but she grew up in the house I lived in from birth - 6 y.o., and I played football and stickball on the street with her older brother, so I always knew her as a little pee wee toddler with Polish white blond hair. She was big-boned as an adult, but had to have been armed to hit all those places spread out over a half mile, so fast. I heard about it, saw some media coverage, and was picking up some food at a pizza joint about 10 days later, and she came in the shop door. (She hadn't robbed that joint, bypassed it in her earlier spree.)
For a split second, fear crossed my mind. But it only entailed me looking at her face, her hands and orientation of her arms, and gauging the counter in "jumping over clearances" terms.
It wasn't a stick up. No trouble, I got the food and left, didn't stay to shoot the breeze with her, we've never really talked with each other. It didn't cause me a long term deeply rooted traumatic fear of the opposite gender. I did have occasion to mention it to several different community members later -- "Tammy blankblank is out", imaginary me diving over the pizza counter. She had a very good lawyer I guess, & her aunt is a repug committeewoman in district 1 of our ward. The DA is a Dem, it's a Dem stronghold city and county, but he seemed to be more interested in anti-ACORN activities than community security, a real political animal, I never vote for the wretch. Whatever, after the fact, I'm not huddled in fear like we live in a Deathwish style city, I don't go around armed, don't alter my travels or shopping in the community. That antecdote just says there was this one time, some woman who I think I could have taken in a brawl, caused me a couple of moments of uncertainty and fear, and there are no overarching conclusions to draw from that one incident. Some women can be dangerous, the cute little blond toddler could turn into a big boned druggie biker stick up woman, but there's no archetype there.)
The correct response to the question about the orange drumpfenfuhrer's assault is "He's going to kill me, he's killing me, now. I'm going to die." Everybody with even a tiny little bit on the ball knows exactly what Ivana was thinking.
Nobody laughs at the drumpfenfuhrer. I think that's what he had his mouthpiece Omarosa say on Frontline, anyhow. He's a clown, but he's more like one of those woods clowns that are so vogue these days. More of a slashing hobo than a singing one.
" Dick Cheney Made Millions with Saddam Hussein
by Martin A. Lee Saturday, May. 24, 2008 at 1:12 AM
Here's a whopper of a story you may have missed amid the cacophony of campaign ads and stump speeches in the run- up to the elections.
During former defense secretary Richard Cheney's five-year tenure as chief executive of Halliburton, Inc., his oil services firm raked in big bucks from dubious commercial dealings with Iraq. Cheney left Halliburton with a $34 million retirement package last July when he became the GOP's vice-presidential candidate. "
That's where some far-right wing-nut complains, snivels, and cries about how unfair reality dwellers are being to the wing-nuts and their cause.
"Donald J. Trump has sold the Miss Universe Organization to the talent agency WME-IMG, the company announced on Monday.
The sale, the financial terms of which were not disclosed, came after a rough summer for the organizations Miss USA beauty pageant in which two television partners dropped the broadcast in response to comments Mr. Trump made about illegal immigrants during his presidential campaign. "
He had to buy out his employer NBC's share, then sold it all within 3 days, then the business collapsed. He did great.
Then there's his great job with the PGA event at Doral, where the orange cannonmouth popped off a few too many times than were helpful for the sponsors' bottom lines, about Mexican immigrants and Mexicans, so the sponsors pulled out. Though the Doral Resort was the single most profitable business in the dRump business organization, his intemperate statements caused the major event held at it to move -- to Mexico. Doral City mayor Boria backed dRump's statements and gave him a key to the city, then the PGA pull out was a financial blow to the city and a threat to future investments by international businesses.
His performance and brags on these things seems similar to what it would be like if you came across your kid in the garage, and he's got the lawnmower taken completely apart, the gears are on the ground, the tires are off, there's nuts and bolts everywhere, the blade's laying over there, and as your foot slips on the oily spark plug, he says "look daddy, I fixted it!" That might be endearing, though time consuming and aggravating to deal with.
It's a lot less endearing when the kid is a large 70 year old overweight bald orange violent foul-tempered nasty-mouthed half-wiseguy nazi a hole egomaniac, and the mower is the economy, the country, and our planet.
That's what allowed his opposition to feasibly claim to the Peruvian public that he was from Japan, and ineligible to lead Peru.
Remember when Poppy's brother Prescott got caught lobbying for the Yakuza, and didn't give the money back to the business fronts he was lobbying for, after it was revealed? No matter what other "legit" Japanese business interests Fujimori represented in Peru, cocaine and the yakuza were a big factor.
Yakuza is a creation of right wing US intel/business and post WW II Japanese fascists. It stands to reason, we occupied that nation militarily, controlled everything when they rose to power.
The press coverage of Sendero Luminoso tactics and actions in the late '80's made me wonder if they weren't like M-19 over in Colombia. There is a very real possibility that the organization, if it wasn't created outright by the far-right in Peru and the US, was thoroughly infiltrated, so some factions were going after progressives that Fujimori and his predecessors hated. They did so while the Peruvian far right went after progressives using the excuse that they were suspected of being part of the Sendero boogeyman organization. So the population was being squeezed "from both sides", like M-19 did in Colombia. (Of course, maybe it's just that anybody can say "I'm with Sendero" and since it's an underground org, nobody can fact check the claim. I doubt it. Still, the fact that the IRA issued "coded warnings", and this was held to be accepted standard procedure by the press and governmental authorities, says someone else was sometimes blowing up stuff, then trying to pin it on the IRA. There really were only 2 sides in that fight, and noted British citizen George Orwell posited that the totalitiarian gov of Oceana would launch missiles into it's own population and claim the "enemy" had attacked. It keeps the population on war-time footing, buying the propaganda about how they should be afraid of the evil enemy, how they need to be protected by big brother; and it excuses war time austerity measure shortages the public has to suffer because the gov's glorious 10 year plan didn't pan out, production-goals-wise.)
There's a good movie called The Formula, with Brando and George C. Scott. During the action in the movie, some radical "Red Brigade" German "lefties" were performing certain terrorist actions at the behest of a Nazi war criminal, who was working for a US oil company nazi with US intel ties. There was another one called The Package, with Gene Hackman and Tommy Lee Jones, where some "radical German lefties" tried to pull an assassination in Germany that the US far right wanted, in an area where Hackman's US MP officer character had his squad detailed as security. There was no actual old-line Odessa-kameradenwerk-ratline character in that movie, but a military prisoner that Hackman guarded, who escaped, wound up getting involved with neo-nazis and skinheads in Chicago, on the way to being set up as a triggerman for an assassination on US soil.
I'm glad Montesinos is getting his comeuppance, this stuff tracks right back to Poppy, his business buddies, and his agency people. Hopefully Fujimori rots in peace. I see that his kid is involved in Peruvian politics.
show that he's a "status quo special interest" business person.
Norquist was just whining about how "Hillary knows that the special interest real estate owner/developers have tax dodging loopholes, where they get to report negative income and dodge taxes on huge profits they made elsewhere. So her saying tRump pays no taxes was a cheap shot." Is tRump campaigning to pay more of his fair share and eliminate this skeezy loophole? No. He openly wants to push more tax cuts to benefit him, as an official campaign policy position.
He wants to brag he's worth $10 billion dollars, and be able to openly, legally declare he never makes any money. And be proud that he gets away with it, and brag that he wants to keep getting away with it. At the same f ing time. HE'S the special interests that the repugs are constantly screaming about. HE is everthing that's wrong with the system, and he's camoflaging that fact by going right on stage using the system, to run to lead the system, and he's running by using the "tRumpf's furious about the fact that everything is wrong with the system" lie, as a campaign tool and principle. He's using the system, to get put in charge of the system, runs with demagogic bashing of the system, as head of the party that made the system, and his party fights against every change to the system. This is eye crossing propagandic duplicity performed in a way that only the gop could ever hope to get away with. It's like corrupt gop jailables Christie, Giuliani, and tRump saying "lock her up", to rally their fans.
The same goes for his bragging about campaign contributions he always makes that result in our elected officials, paid by our tax dollars, not his, doing whatever he wants and kissing his ass. He doesn't pay taxes, so he has plenty of money available to pay off our tax dollar paid public servants, to act in his interest instead of ours. "I got rich, through bribery of our corrupt political system, I'm here to brag about how I'm rich, and to say I'm very interested in destroying the system that made me rich." (Cut to camera two, where tRump pinhead followers nod heads in agreement. Listen to them cheer.) He's not offering to alter the status quo on buying elected officials, he's running to be an elected official, is taking kickback contributions as campaign contributions now, won't divest from his business empire so Putin will wind up openly bribing him with real estate development deals in Russia. Would he take a bribe through his Foundation? He's been playing fast and loose with every angle of the Charitable Foundation tax code for years. So he's currently getting bribed and paid off through the tRump Campaign, the tRump Organization, and the tRump Foundation, basically every one of the 3 prongs of his public existence.
There was an interesting moment in the debate, where he talked about how there was tremendous waste in the military, because of "incompetent management by Dems". You could just see him rooting around in his memory for $2,200 toilet seats and $500 dollar hammers, but then he didn't say it because he knew he'd get the numbers wrong, and those things happened during Raygun, and it would open up the Halliburton can of worms, which would displease trump supporter dick Cheney. Still, the party line from tRump is "there's tremendous waste, so I'm going to massively increase military spending." To pay for his invasion of Mexico, or the 30 million person deportation force, maybe.
I don't know what to make of guyana dot org. Could be good Guyanese anti-nazis.
Info about the moves the bad guys pull sometimes just gets overwhelmingly disgusting, there's so much in-depth info out there, it could sometimes be bad for morale to constantly study this stuff in-depth, categorically. Always turning over rocks with nasty stuff under them can hurt the digestion and psyche. Like reading too may Vonnegut books in a row.
Talking about it is a tribute to the good people they victimized, though, and a way of exposing those cockroaches. The bad guys want intelligent anti-nazi leaning people to see this info, do the math in their head, and get scared and shut up about it. But knuckling under like that is a bad move, because the bad guys are out to get everybody. I think that the success that anti-nazi people have in Latin America is the result of everyone saying "I'm not going to shut up about it", and the nazis knuckle under because they can't get everybody. The more small fries that talk about the info, the less the baddies are able to get away with their moves.
Mae Brussell did a story on Jessica Savitch and her death. Savitch did an 8 part series for PBS Frontline (it was edgier, then, probably because Ken Tomlinson hadn't worked his magic yet). The 3 parts that ran were the murder of "God's Banker", Calvi; the murder of a couple of NFL officials by organized crime people who wanted rigged games; and Operation Paperclip (Was Operation Overdark, originally) bringing a big bunch of nazis into our intel, getting them away from Nuremberg trials, and using them in operations that benefitted our right wing money people. Then Savitch had a "flameout" on NBC news, which wasn't "cut away from due to technical difficulties", and she then drowned in New Hope, PA with a Murdoch press operative in the car. Same coroner did the controversial autopsy on Abbie Hoffman, later. Frontline never ran the other 5 parts of the series, but Brussell said Paperclip had always been the key information that drove her own research.
It would be interesting to know what the other 5 parts of the series were, but the 3 that were covered were cultism, mob, and nazis in intel, all death worshippers, which pretty much sums the modern driving forces and tools of the big money people behind the gop.
Nyquist did a good job playing a bad guy in the movie. That's 2 good anti-nazi performances from him in a row, but I liked his Dragon Tattoo good guy work more. Stieg Larrson showed that the trajectory of his Salander character was going from fighting against a small cultist serial killer "man who hates women" & corrupt Swedish industrialists, progressing to fighting international nazis & organized crime, and aiming right on through to encompassing a fight against corrupt right wing US post-war intel. I would have loved to see more of the increasing number of great characters around Bloomquist and Salander.
I'm sorry for Prof. Weisfeiler and his family. They deserve closure.
We need the UN to have paid Truth and Reconciliation experts, from Bishop Tutu's group, the Irish conflict, maybe Oscar Arias' people. If they had teeth (financial sanctions) and intel from Amnesty, IPS, etc., they could help grieving loved ones of victims world wide. If the official institutional barriers to talking about Prof. W.'s death are just "authorities not wanting to admit governmental culpability", that's ridiculous. Everybody looking at this story KNOWS the gov is culpable. Possibly financial ties currently existing with post-Pinochet Chilean authorities are at work. It was ITT and Kennecott Copper that were financially interested in putting Pinochet into power.
I've seen Mr. Constantine's work a lot when looking up anti-nazi issues, on-line. I see he put out a book on Mae Brussell, I used to listen to her broadcasts in the Bay area in '86-'88. Long time ago, but I thought it was KCUP, not KAZU, I'd never be able to remember the numbers on the radio dial.
" "The Essential Mae Brussell: Investigations of Fascism in America"
Edited by Alex Constantine, Foreword by Paul Krassner
Feral House (2014), 359 pp.
"The main Brussell thesis, if I dare risk commit the sin of summary on her complex work, was that an ex-Nazi scientist-Old Boys OSS clique in the CIA using Mafia hit men changed the course of American history by bumping off one and all, high and low, who became an irritant to them." -- Warren Hinkle (sic)
"Mae's work may be more relevant now than in her heyday. Like those of many other freedom fighters throughout history, the ghost of Mae Brussell will never rest till justice is served."Tim Cahill "
(Typo mis-spelled Hinckle's name)
Hinckle blew the whistle on Al Sharpton being involved in the destabilization of the Manley Regime in Jamaica. Which is why I never trusted or liked Sharpton. Interestingly, when Al was exposed as a government informant, he had been involved with organized crime, dRump backer Don King, Farrakhan's NOI, all those bad groups, and a bunch of good, politically active Civil Rights Social Justice groups. His excuse then was that he "Never spied on activists", he claimed that he only talked to the gov about organized crime interactions. In other words, he openly said in the mass media that he was a stool pigeon against organized crime. Odd, because you usually have to go into the witness protection program after that, instead of broadcast tv. And it's odd that he felt the need to publicize the "fact" that he never informed on the usual progressive COINTELPRO targets, because informers against progressive causes never have had the problems that informers against the mob have.
One small quibble I have with Hinckle's Brussell statement is about the Nazi-Dulles (Document Disposal Unit of our CIA in Germany) Intel-Mob clique -- my quibble is that the people who were brought in weren't just Rocket Scientists (Von Braun and "Doc Strangelove" Ed Teller), or "Useful" intel people like Gehlen and Skorzeny. There were also insane, usless-except-as-torturer/killers like Otto Von Bolschwing, Klaus "The Butcher of Lyon" Barbie, John "Ivan the Terrible" Demjanjuk (Pat Buchanan's hero), Joe "Angel of Death" Mengele.
I used to talk about this stuff with Defend and Protect, and Octa. I've seen a bunch of other anti-nazi post-ers with good intel on this site, too. It sometimes seems excessively in depth and academic to talk about these orgs' bad moves from the '40s. But it never hurts to see exactly where the enemy is coming from, philosophically, or exactly what ideology they're committed to. I note the dozens of ties to nazis that li'l donnie drumpfenfuhrer, senior, has been exhibiting during his campaign. Precisely what got me timed out over at the froggie post-er site (DI).
It's a pleasure talking to you, and reading your info, Judi Lynn. I know I've recced a lot of your stuff for years here, but never exchanged any info or ideas with you before.
There's an excellent Alex Cox movie called Walker. Very stylized, but essentially true. Pegs Corny Vandebilt (Hi, Anderson!) as the prime backer for William Walker's attempt to own Nicaragua, way back in the day, before the US Civil War. Walker's mercenary groups included some reinforcements run by Prussian officer corp led and trained groups running around Latin America back then. (I guess the descendants of the Hessians.) It stars Ed Harris, Marlee Matlin, Sy Richardson, a great cast of performers who gave excellent performances. Joe Strummer from the Clash had a small role, and also circumvented the music industry lawyers keeping him from writing and performing by doing the soundtrack as "Dan Wul" and the musical group Pray For Rain.
I've been peeing and moaning about the nazis, here, for years. And I never knew anything about any of these guys.
I heard about gamergate and Sarkeesian, heard about mra's for decades, and thought the badguys were assholes, and ignored them. (I don't play those new videogames, don't have online facebook twitter youtube pages, so the bad guys are operating in a place I only touch through acting on an Ultraviolet e-mail action request.) I heard about the Leslie Jones attack, knew about Breitbart, thought the bad guys were assholes, and ignored them. (I did go see the new Ghostbusters, though.)
I saw the increased visibility of Jones' Infowars, just knew he was a bircher nazi repug when some progressive types were thinking he was a lefty, occasionally heard about some awful crazy nazi thing he was pulling, thought him and his people were assholes, and ignored them. I saw the echoes attacks against Julia Ioffe and then others, with all the death threats and high tech sophisticated exhibits of bad guys saying "we can reach you anywhere". I started to pay attention, & noted dozens of on-line nazi ties to t Rump, (Little Bird analysis, for example).
So where we're at, now, is that there's this orange nazi the repugs are running. He brings Alex Jones, Roger Stone, Eternal Sentry, and some street thugs together. He hires Bannon, yannopolous and Mchugh from breitbart. He aids and uses the aid of the echoes crowd, with fishbonehead, the RNC-page-posting crowd during Lingle's RNC speech, western_triumph, & whitegenocidetm crawling all over his massive 24/7 online campaign presence. I noticed the Daily Shoah's pro dRump anti Clinton 9/26 livestream debate coverage broadcast on youtube, for example.
These mutants, in the o.p., are those mutants, in my last 3 paragraphs. They're all tied up in the single squirming bundle of maggots that is the drump campaign. The alt right has lately been screaming their hysterical whiny complaints (I call them "RaHoWahhhs!" ) about Sec. Clinton bringing up their existence, they're attacking her for "lying and calling poor republicans nazis". They're pretending to mock her "invention" of a boogeyman that "doesn't even exist". Simultaneously they're blanketing on-line venues with their froggies and baskets of froggies and howling joyful brags about how she made them famous and let a lot more people know they exist. Apparently, they're schizos.
They're not the street muscle nazis I complained about here for all these years, but they're the "hip" publicists and recruiters for them. They're like the 19 year old baby creepster Roger Stone was, during Nixon's Watergate felony initiatives. Stone was totally rubbing elbows with the hitmen and nazi intel people that Nixon was using for all those felonies, and Rog was pulling his own felonies as a young repuglinazi. (Fun fact: Der drump has the same large amount of mob ties that Nixon did, and will be the first candidate since Nixon to not release his tax returns.)
I'll allow it's possible that you're in a group here that monitors, discusses, and counters the online nexus of old line active and intellectual nazis (like Richard Spencer, political cesspool, v dare, worldnutdaily), and yez believe that these baby creepsters are small potatoes. But they're making threatening and effective large sized moves, and I haven't seen your discussion group, DU's a very large site. This K. Logan stuff is informative and important to me, and I could never have watched the hundreds of hours of garbage these youtube nazis put out, in order to excerpt all those key "we hate Women, Gays, Moslems, Jews, Blacks, Mexicans, but we love tRump" quotes. I have a delicate stomach.
So that's why I kick this info back up, and anyone can trash thread or ignore it, pass right on by. Just please don't mistakenly confuse any nihilists for fascists, and deck them, Sen.
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