March 30, 2016

NOT limited to DU: On ANY message board, why would you put someone on ignore?

I have gone from priding myself on not putting anyone on ignore, to putting one incredibly annoying and persistent poster on ignore, to, most recently enjoying just the simplyu act of hitting the ignore button. So, I got curious. On any message board, what prompts you (no pun intended) to use ignore as to a poster?

Sample answers

Often inaccurate, intentionally or not
Posts tediously predictably
Trolls almost every thread with some one line, dumb ass post, often an ad hom
Rarely posts anything useful.



Post serious replies and/or just have fun with it--your choice.

This is not a poll because I want the responses to be anything you feel, believe, want to fabricate, want to laugh at, etc.

Besides, internet polls don't count. http://www.democraticunderground.com/128083341

March 23, 2016

Will supporters of Bernie vote for Hillary as PUMAs voted for Obama?

WARNING: Please do not reply to this OP with anything that might get you a hide or a ban. If you post in this group often, odds are, I like you and do not want to see you banished, unless that is what you consciously want. You can always reply as to what you think people in general will do, not as to your own intentions, as you now see them.



Politicians and pundits tend to draw from past elections whatever lessons they wish to teach the hoi polloi (us). However, as I suspect they discuss among themselves, each election is really a one off. "They" are telling us now that supporters of Bernie will vote for Hillary, if she is the nominee, much as PUMAs voted for Obama in 2008. Whether courtesy of DNA or Sesame Street, I tend to see differences between and among superficially similar things. And, I see that 2016 is not like 2008 and supporters of Bernie are not like PUMAs.

In 2007, I chose "my" primary candidate based upon my assessment of the best chance to win the general, full stop. In May 2105, however, I chose my primary candidate based on historic policies, principles and trustworthiness. I don't imagine many looked at Hillary and Bernie in May 2015 and thought, as between these two, Bernie is the shoo in." Once he began drawing tens of thousands to his rallies, perhaps many people saw that, but I doubt many did in May 2015.

In 2008, Obama and Hillary were both establishment candidates. In 2016, Hillary is; Bernie was never establishment. Bernie always said that he ran as an independent because he did not want to be beholden to the big donors of the Democratic Party (and their legislative wishes). Many of Bernie's supporters are disillusioned current or former Democrats or never were Democrats. I don't see that group of his supporters voting for Hillary, if she is the nominee, simply because Bernie endorses her, no matter how much they admire him. (If endorsements swayed them, they would probably be supporting Hillary now.)

In 2008, many of Hillary's supporters were angry about the way in which the Party and the media treated Hillary, something I saw and admitted, even as a strong Obama supporter. Those things were indeed enough to turn some of Hillary's supporters to voting for McCain or staying home. However, party loyalty and the full-throated support of the Clintons for Obama won back many of them. The perception of PUMAs of Party and media discrimination against Hillary in 2008 is nothing compared with the perception of those things by supporters of Bernie.

In 2008, Hillary still had her eyes on the Oval Office, probably also on Secretary of State or Vice President, and therefore had a personal interest in having the PUMAs vote for Obama and remain loyal Democrats. I doubt Bernie has his eyes on another run for the Oval Office if he is not the 2016 nominee. (If Bernie runs in 8 years, I am not even sure I would would support him!)

In 2008, many voters were convinced that simply voting Democratic would suffice to get them a President with the principles and policies they associated with Democrats like FDR and LBJ (sans, of course, the wars, internment, etc.) My sense--and it's only my sense--is that fewer voters believe that now. Whether they will vote for Hillary anyway on the lesser of two evils theory, if she the nominee, I have no idea. Despite polling to the contrary, if any, I doubt anyone does know.

In 2008, Obama attempted to woo Republican voters who were more sane, more pro-choice, etc. than Republicans in general. The Obama campaign highlighted Julie Eisenhower's saying she would vote for Obama, but I did not hear much about "Obamacans" after that. This time, it looks as though both Hillary and Bernie would get some Republican votes, especially if Trump is the nominee. Kasich, however, would skew that issue very differently from Trump or Cruz. I don't know how this issue will play out in November, no matter who is the Democratic nominee.

Perhaps most importantly in my mind: In 2008, both candidates were indeed similar in policy, if not in temperament, gender, race or religion: Hillary is Methodist and I don't think Rev. Wright's church is Methodist. Health care was the policy difference that stands out most in my mind from 2008: Obama campaigned on a strong public option and no individual mandate. She did not. (We all know what happened.) The 2016 candidates are very different from each other in policy and perceived trustworthiness.

In 2016, Hillary's surrogates and supporters and others have, on occasion claimed that Bernie and Hillary are very similar in policy, having voted the same X% of the time, but that is very misleading. (For my explanation, please see http://www.democraticunderground.com/12511547074#post14 and http://www.democraticunderground.com/128037156 ) Although Hillary has changed her stump speech considerably from 2008, polls show people do not necessarily believe that she really espouses these changes or trust her to pursue them wholeheartedly should she become President. This is especially true of those supporters of Bernie who are most familiar with her history and his.

Lastly, THE SUPREME COURT, ever the ultimate argument of Democrats and now of both Democrats and Republicans. That, too, has changed from 2008. This year, Obama supposedly considered nominating a Republican (or maybe that was publicized so that the actual nominee would come as a relief to Democrats, who knows?). http://jackpineradicals.org/showthread.php?4975-Obama-Considers-Nominating-a-Republican-to-the-Supreme-Court-of-the-United-States Obama did nominate a law and order moderate--and, even at that, Republicans may not bring his confirmation to the floor, let alone confirm him. Compare that with Democrat's having confirmed Scalia, Thomas, Roberts and Alito. If Democrats refuse to block another extreme right-wing, anti-choice nomination to the SCOTUS, shame on Democratic Senators. Professional Democrats, from DNC heads to politicians to pundits and strategists, would do themselves and the Party a solid, IMO, to stop blaming Republican politicians and those who vote Democratic for every single thing that goes wrong in this country: Take responsibility and Democrat up!

Bottom line: Assumptions that Bernie's supporters of 2016 will behave the way that Hillary's supporters did in 2008 are not taking in the differences in the candidates, the election-year climates, or the voting populations. If Hillary is the nominee, I assume and expect that a majority of Democratic supporters of Bernie will vote for her or not vote at all. However, I firmly believe that many will vote Green, write in Bernie or not vote the top of the ticket, assuming that they show up at that polls at all. I hope they do: If nothing else, down ticket races are at least as important as the Presidential and many "Sanders Democrats" are running down ticket, including Tim Canova, who is making Debbie Wasserman Schultz face her first primary ever, and many great state and local candidates.
http://jackpineradicals.org/showthread.php?4694-Bernie-s-Coat-Tails-Important-List-of-Bernie-Democrats-Running-for-Office

DONATION LINKS

Bernie

DU link https://secure.actblue.com/contribute/page/duforbernie

JPR link https://secure.actblue.com/contribute/page/jackpineradicals4bernie

Tim Canova

DU link https://secure.actblue.com/contribute/page/du4timcanova

JPR link https://secure.actblue.com/contribute/page/jpr4timcanova

David Sparks (DUer: votesparks; AFAIK, no DU link for a DUer!) https://secure.actblue.com/contribute/page/jpr4sparks

Edited version posted at http://jackpineradicals.org/content.php

March 22, 2016

For informational purposes only: Another interesting alert. Correct result, though, IMO.

But the thread got locked as OT anyway. Maybe the alerter alerted forum hosts and the jury at the same time? Not illegal, but an abuse of the jury alert system, IMO. Whoever started a jury process, thanks for wasting the time of seven DUers.

On Tue Mar 22, 2016, 11:27 AM an alert was sent on the following post:

This is the link to the post on Wikileaks/Hillarys emails that was alerted on and hidden by Jury.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/12511550995

REASON FOR ALERT

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.

ALERTER'S COMMENTS

Reposting hidden links.

You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Tue Mar 22, 2016, 11:35 AM, and the Jury voted 2-5 to LEAVE IT.

Juror #1 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: It was just hidden once. At best this is meta, at worst it's disruptive. Either way I vote to hide
Juror #2 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #3 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: Right-wing conspiracy nonsense.
Juror #4 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #5 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: It's an acceptable source and not a significant story. The constant harping on e-mails isn't helping Sanders at all, but on his supporters head be it.
Juror #6 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #7 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: First, the poster posted a link to a hidden post, not to a hidden link. Second, what the poster did is done ALL the time all over the board, as I have a feeling you know. Stop alerting on everything you disagree with in hopes of getting a partisan jury.

Thank you very much for participating in our Jury system, and we hope you will be able to participate again in the future.

Juror 1 either does not know or pretends not to know that forum or group hosts decide on when to hide for disruptive meta, not jurors. Juror 3 pretends a link to a post linking to Hillary's actual emails is a right wing conspiracy.

smh

March 20, 2016

This is an informational post, so we all grok where we now are, alertwise and hidewise.

(Yes, I did watch The Apartment recently. Why do you ask?)

On Sun Mar 20, 2016, 10:52 AM an alert was sent on the following post:

More about why BS refused to answer questions about the Amber Alert bill.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/110778379

REASON FOR ALERT

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.

ALERTER'S COMMENTS

This is a right wing smear, accuses Sen Sanders of not caring about children's lives and quotes a Republican who ran against him in 2006 who accused him of supporting pedophilia. Skinner said last week that the rhetoric against both candidates needs to be toned down, enough with the vilification of Democrats. Either one is better than Trump.

You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Sun Mar 20, 2016, 11:09 AM, and the Jury voted 2-5 to LEAVE IT.

Juror #1 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: This is indeed a typical right wing smear. I hope that Sander's online supporters will take the high road as I just did, this kind of garbage does not benefit our party, our common goals, not Democratic Underground. Can we please stop the insanity against BOTH of our candidates!
Juror #2 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: Alerter is correct.
Juror #3 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: There's way more vilification against Hillary than this. This is hardly "vilification" and it's in a private group. I suggest you trash group if it bothers you.
Juror #4 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #5 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #6 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: This is in a protected group. It posts an article from a Democratic website. It's simply the posting of an article. Just because one doesn't like the contents doesn't mean it should be alerted on -- especially since it's IN A PROTECTED GROUP.
Juror #7 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given

Thank you very much for participating in our Jury system, and we hope you will be able to participate again in the future.

and

On Sun Mar 20, 2016, 06:37 PM an alert was sent on the following post:

IMHO - A Vote For HRC In The Primary Is A Vote For Trump In The General - Trump Can Easily Win
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=7699525

REASON FOR ALERT

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.

ALERTER'S COMMENTS

This post belongs in GD-P, as the poster knows. He's trying to derail the OP with his own agenda.

You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Sun Mar 20, 2016, 06:43 PM, and the Jury voted 1-6 to LEAVE IT.

Juror #1 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Worst alert ever--and that is going some. As YOU no doubt know, rules about where post's belong are for OP's, not replies. Christ! Stop alert stalking.
Juror #2 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: It's just an opinion. A wrong one, but an opinion.
Juror #3 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #4 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #5 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #6 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: This post is not disruptive
Juror #7 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: bad alert.

March 20, 2016

Dr. Dean was always a rich, privileged center right guy.

I've been reading that he has sold out. He was always a rich center right guy, except on the issue of medicare for all. That is the issue he sold out on. AFAIK, it's the only issue he's sold out on because he was already wrong on so many. While Bernie gets condemned because the NRA rates him F to D minus, the NRA rated Dean A and even endorsed him a few times. Even when he had to choose between unequal marriage, civil unions"and equal marriage, he took the civil union road, rather than equal marriage. Supposedly, it was the hardest decision he ever made. Equal marriage should be a no brainer.

As sang no one, ever, "We're going to the chapel and we're going to get civil unioned."

If you want more info:

Bite me Manny's open letter to Dr. Dean http://jackpineradicals.org/showthread.php?6238-Dear-Dr-Dean-I-m-very-sorry&p=34479#post34479

My biographical post about Dr. Dean http://jackpineradicals.org/showthread.php?6246-Dean-Before-the-Scream-and-Now&p=34545#post34545

March 19, 2016

Please heed.

The owner of this board has posted about certain short-term changes. http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1013&pid=5098

These short-term changes include people who have been on enforced vacations or suspensions returning to post. The changes also include allowing unlimited hides without suspension. From everything I've read, contested Democratic primaries have been rough. Allowing unlimited hides without enforced vacations is not going to make it less rough and may make it more rough.

As far as I know, however, banning of posters will continue and so will reviewing a poster's account, which review may be brief or may last indefinitely, perhaps eternally. So, no one has carte blanche to post anything that he, she, it or they feel like posting.

Some believe that the left gets off easier than the right and some believe that the right gets off easier than the left. Whether any of that is so or not is beside the point. Whatever it is, it is what it is and probably won't change.

If you don't want to risk being PPR'd or reviewed indefinitely, be careful, no matter what provocation you get. If you don't care about hides or banning, you're an adult (or over 13, anyway) and I am not going to try to tell you what to do.

Peace.

March 18, 2016

It's my sad duty to inform the Bernie Group that Senator Sanders--wait for it--

with a rally on his schedule, actually ended an interview with a reporter.

http://www.12news.com/news/local/valley/ahead-of-phoenix-rally-sanders-abruptly-ends-12-news-interview/87425186

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10141382809 (sadly, this but one of MANY links to the story on DU EVEN AS I TYPE!)

Sorry, former fellow supporters of Senator Sanders. Most of you know me: I have stayed faithful through the many sins some on DU have managed to identify in this man who has been nothing but a man of decency his entire adult life (probably his childhood, too, but, of course, I'm certainly not going to take his own brother's word for it).

For example, I put up with his leading from the front, like some kind of egomaniac, instead of from a very respectful distance to the rear, decades after it really mattered. I even put up with his resistance to the Iraq War, while pragmatic liberals like Marshall, founder of the Progressive Policy Institute, signed the PNAC letter, urging Bush to invade Iraq, as any President of Sense should have.

However, we all have to draw a line somewhere and, very regretfully, ENDING an interview is the end of that line for me.

From this day forward, I, too, am, at long last, thanks to all that is good in the world, a Person of Sense™, like so many faithful DUers.

FORWARD, my sensible friends, FORWARD. Who else is with me?




™Third Way Manny http://jackpineradicals.org/content.php?168-Can-we-ADULTS-discuss-the-Massachusetts-primary

March 17, 2016

Apparently, someone determined that insulting Sanders and his supporters is the path

to party unity. That should work well!

March 17, 2016

It's Donation O'Clock for real!

I am not sure why I added "for real." It's been Donation O'Clock "for real" since Bernie announced. We are his only source of funds.

If you think Bernie is losing, you have not been paying attention. He has won so much, it's unbelievable.

"Sanders has already won." [url]http://www.democraticunderground.com/12778005[/url]

"Sea changes in US politics, thanks to Senator Sanders and his supporters."
[url]http://jackpineradicals.org/showthread.php?5448-Sea-changes-in-US-politics-thanks-to-Senator-Sanders-and-his-supporters[/url] or
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1280109865

Aside from that, Bernie AGAIN did better Tuesday than polling predicted and is just now entering the part of the primary where we thought he would do best. He didn't wait around Tuesday to give a concession speech. He went to campaign in another state.

Beyond that, this is not only a primary, it's a revolution; and Sanders and we have been winning the revolution since the day in 2014 that he announced he was exploring a run for the Presidency. If you want more sea changes in politics, if you want people to know you mean it, this is the time to let them know in the only language they understand. TODAY.

Please don't even think about telling me you can't spare even $1.00 today or you are going to wait for your IRS refund. Today is the day to make the biggest statement you can possibly make. You can always send more later when that other check arrives or the tooth fairly finally leaves you that dollar, plus interest, for the molar you lost when you were twelve.

Minimum donation is $1.00, but this is not the day for small ball: Donate as much as you possibly can, "RIGHT FUCKING NOW!"


This is the JPR link: [url]https://secure.actblue.com/contribute/page/jackpineradicals4bernie[/url] (almost $15,00 since late December or early January, and counting).

This is the DU link: https://secure.actblue.com/contribute/page/duforbernie (almost $60,000 since June, and counting)



Despite my stern tone, I love us. (I am such a wimp!)

March 14, 2016

MSNBC is airing wall to wall, live coverage for endorsements of Trump.

I don't watch MSNBC all the time, but I've now seen extended, live coverage of Palin endorsing Trump, of Carson endorsing Trump and now of Christie endorsing Trump. Are you kidding me? And, now, they're discussing Trump.

Seriously? These are our choices for political coverage as a great nation, CNN, FOX and TrumpNBC?

Fascism, here we come!