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PTWB

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Member since: Sat Feb 2, 2019, 01:19 PM
Number of posts: 4,131

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You're welcome, friend!

We could be talking about a window licking circus elephant and I'd be happy to banter with you back and forth about it as long as it accomplished my goal.

Remember when I mentioned the usual suspects (Bernie bashers) who show up to these threads with predictable regularity?

Now imagine my amusement and sheer glee when I manage to convince one of those Bernie bashers to bump an OP celebrating Bernie Sanders... for hours, and hours, and hours.

How's the weather there, RB?

Hi RB!!!

I knew youíd find your way to this thread eventually. 😂

Compromising with gun owners is the ONLY feasible path to passing meaningful gun control

I apologize in advance as this will be a lengthy post. Much of this post comes from a reply another thread but I wanted to bring it here for further discussion.

Weíre all Democrats here and most of us are logical, thoughtful people. Those of us who do own firearms and support the current interpretation of the 2nd Amendment (recognizing an individual right to keep and bear arms) also recognize that rights are not unlimited. We can both support the 2nd Amendment and advocate for common sense, effective gun control that doesnít violate the 2nd Amendment and doesnít violate due process.

My goal here is to create a discussion about how to formulate and pass meaningful gun control in todayís political climate.

The last decade should be a playbook of what not to do. Don't threaten mandatory gun buybacks, all out bans, registries, or anything else that will 1. not pass and 2. reduce the chance of passing anything else.

Forcing gun control legislation through sheer force of will and emotion is simply not going to work. If it was going to work, we would have passed something meaningful after Sandy Hook.

My proposal is to compromise with gun owners in order to pass meaningful gun control.

If we do not compromise with gun owners there is zero chance of anything passing until there is a seismic shift in the political climate.


Many of our gun laws are antiquated and ineffective. There are laws from the Prohibition Era that needlessly burden gun owners and add nothing to the general safety of society. There are scores of completely ineffective (from a public safety standpoint) gun laws on the books that are burdensome and loathed by the gun community.

Get rid of the laws that donít work or donít do anything to enhance public safety. Trade them for effective and modern gun control solutions that are relatively popular and will be more effective at saving lives. Meaningful gun control reform needs to work with, not against, gun owners.

There are numerous things that the gun community wants and would be willing to negotiate to obtain. These things include national reciprocity for concealed carry licenses, a revamp of the antiquated NFA registration system and modernizing what types of weapons must be registered. Some of the requirements are completely arbitrary.

For example, you can purchase a short-barrel AR-15 pistol with a brace that is essentially identical to a short-barreled rifle but does not require registration. For all intents and purposes, they're the same gun.

Another example is that you can purchase an AR-15 pistol and convert it into a rifle by adding a buttstock (assuming the barrel length is 16 inches or greater), but cannot purchase an AR-15 rifle and convert it into a pistol by removing the buttstock, even though in both configurations the firearm is identical in every way. The only difference is whether the box 'pistol' or 'rifle' was checked at the time of purchase.

These types of antiquated regulations do not enhance public safety and are simply annoying and burdensome to lawful gun owners. There is no reason to keep them so why not barter with them?


Minimum Standards for Concealed Carry Licenses

My proposal would be to add minimum standards (training, testing, background check, & set renewal periods) at the federal level for states to grant concealed carry licenses to residents. Any state that meets or exceeds those minimum standards would then enjoy national reciprocity for such licenses. We do the same thing with driver's licenses which is why your license in New York lets you drive in Florida, and vice versa.

Creating these national minimum standards two things: it raises the bar to get a concealed carry license and it protects licensed carriers in states that otherwise may not recognize their license.


Mandatory Safe Storage Laws

Mandate that guns must be kept in a secure, locked safe or facility that is inaccessible to minors or prohibited persons whether inside or outside the home, unless being actively carried by, or in the immediate control of, a licensee.


Universal Background Checks


Mandate that every gun transfer is subject to a background check, whether that transfer is through a dealer or a private party. We'd have to streamline this process for cases where a family member is inheriting a large number of firearms from a collector, for example, but it wouldn't be hard to do. This would eliminate the 'gun show loophole' and give us another effective tool to combat straw purchasing.

I'd also add more red flags for violent misdemeanors and give folks who are subject to those red flags a streamlined and free-of-charge process to dispute those flags. We want the red flags to be effective and comprehensive without violating due process.


Compromises to Achieve Universal Background Checks, Safe Storage Laws & Concealed Carry Minimum Standards

In exchange for the new gun control laws, I'd suggest removing sound suppressors from the NFA and treating them like firearms--subject to the now universal background checks. I'd also suggest rewording much of the language in the NFA to remove the ambiguity (the ATF currently defines a shoestring as a machine gun, sometimes, for example) and clarify exactly what constitutes a pistol, a rifle, any other weapon, and modernize the entire registration process for NFA items so that these things don't take over a year to register.

The minimum standards for concealed carry licensees inherently grants reciprocity, which is a big selling point. We get bonafide standards that must be met to carry a weapon and they get reciprocity.

I'd also change the $200 per NFA tax stamp to a one-time, lifetime, $200 NFA license tax. The current tax disproportionately negatively impacts minorities and the impoverished.

Some folks may balk at the delisting of suppressors from the NFA and of national concealed carry reciprocity, but I think they're reasonable bargaining chips and are worth trading for universal background checks, minimum standards for concealed carry, and mandatory safe storage.

At the end of the day, we'll have meaningful gun control and gun owners will be happier.

We're not going to pass gun control legislation unless we change our strategy.

We were all outraged by what happened at Sandy Hook. That we were unable to pass any meaningful gun control legislation in its wake should be evidence enough that we need to change our strategy.

I am a gun owner but I'm also a parent and a functioning member of (what used to be) a civil society. Many of our gun laws are antiquated and ineffective. There are laws from prohibition times that needlessly burden gun owners without adding to the general safety of society.

Revamping the antiquated, ineffective, and burdensome gun laws, while replacing them with effective and modern gun control, is the only real chance we have at passing legislation. Meaningful gun control reform needs to work with, not against, gun owners.

The last decade should be a playbook of what not to do. Don't threaten gun buy backs, all out bans, registries, or anything else that will 1. not pass and 2. reduce the chance of passing anything else. And fix the messaging. The right wingers screamed that Obama was going to take their guns but Trump was responsible for more gun control in 4 years than Obama was in 8. Shout it from the tree tops.

I suggest approaching the gun control issue from an entirely different vantage point. There are numerous things that the gun community wants and would be willing to negotiate to obtain. These things include national reciprocity for concealed carry licenses, a revamp of the antiquated NFA registration system and modernizing what types of weapons must be registered. Some of the requirements are completely arbitrary.

I feel strongly that were we to offer up some real compromises that improved quality of life for gun owners, we'd be able to pass universal background checks and some national standards for gun purchasing / concealed carry licensing, and we'd be compromising on things that would have zero impact to public safety. Seems like a win / win, unless the objective is to make gun owners enemies and not allies.

If we want gun control we're going to have to compromise. Simple as that.

Alright, my apologies.

Itís clear thereís some underlying issue here and I do not want to take advantage. I hope you have a good evening, and Iím sorry if you didnít enjoy the banter!
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