Welcome to DU! The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards. Join the community: Create a free account Support DU (and get rid of ads!): Become a Star Member Latest Breaking News General Discussion The DU Lounge All Forums Issue Forums Culture Forums Alliance Forums Region Forums Support Forums Help & Search
 

Drunken Irishman

(34,857 posts)
25. These models are flawed - just look at Trump's approval for proof of this.
Mon May 27, 2019, 07:04 PM
May 2019

With any normal president, absolutely, they would be very difficult to beat in 2020 with an economy that we're seeing right now. If it was Jeb Bush or another Republican president sitting in the Oval, their approval would probably be very close to what Obama was experiencing at the end of his presidency.

But Trump's approval is far below what one would expect for a candidate in his position. And that's where you've got to look. How many presidents, with approval in the low-40s, actually go on to win reelection?

Here's the approval of the last six presidents on election day:

Obama: 50.1% (RCP average) - won 51.1% of the popular vote
Bush: 49.5% (RCP average) - won 50.7% of the popular vote
Clinton: 58% (Gallup) - won 49.2% of the popular vote
H.W. Bush: 34% (Gallup) - won 37% of the popular vote
Reagan: 58% (Gallup) - won 58.8% of the popular vote
Carter: 37% (Gallup) - won 41% of the popular vote

H.W. Bush and Carter lost reelection. They were also the only two candidates with more disapproving of their presidency than approving. Bush had the lowest approval for a winner - but still had a smaller amount of disapproval overall (47%). Clinton and Reagan tied for the highest approval but Clinton actually underperformed his approval significantly - though, that was a three-way race and he won the electoral college by a sizable margin.

Obama saw an increase of +1 from his approval to overall popular vote percentage.
Bush saw an increase of +1.2 from his approval to overall popular vote percentage.
H.W. Bush saw an increase of +3 from his approval to overall popular vote percentage (still lost, tho).
Reagan saw an increase of +.8 from his approval to overall popular vote percentage.
Carter saw an increase of +4 from his approval to overall popular vote percentage.
Clinton saw a decrease of -8.8 from his approval to overall popular vote percentage.

I should point out that some of these polls were taken a week or so before the actual election, whereas Obama and Bush were their average polling number on the day of the election according to RCP.

Just focusing on those two, you can see both actually saw a similar increase in overall popular vote total compared to their approval. This is likely due to a good amount of those who were undecided on whether they approved of Bush/Obama ultimately voting for each on election day. Regardless, the improvement isn't significant - but let's assume Trump sees a +1 increase over his approval rating on election day, 2020.

Looking at his numbers right now, he's currently at 42.8% approval in his average. This is significantly lower than either Bush or Obama on election day and a number like this would spell a good amount of trouble for Trump - as his disapproval 53.4%.

In 2016, Trump lost the popular vote but won the electoral college with 46.1% of the vote. That's probably what his campaign will be gunning for again in 2020 as anything less than that and it likely means he loses Pennsylvania, Michigan and Wisconsin - three states he won by only a few thousand votes combined.

IF the trend of the last two incumbent presidents continues and Trump sees a +1 improvement over his approval, and his approval remains just as low in 2020 as it is today, that would put him at 43.8 - rounded to 44%, or, two points off his 2016 total.

That two-points is not a lot but within the margins of his win last go around? It's devastating. If Trump wins only 44% of the popular vote in 2020, he'll lose.

Predictions were completely wrong in 2016...GOTV spanone May 2019 #1
Seems when predictions are wrong, it's nearly always in republicans' favor unblock May 2019 #3
Russians helped with that, uponit7771 May 2019 #6
Comey was more damaging than the Russians. StevieM May 2019 #66
Expansion enid602 May 2019 #2
True, but there's room for some rate cuts to delay things unblock May 2019 #4
Debt enid602 May 2019 #9
Donald fraud doesn't care about the damage he does unblock May 2019 #20
60 days?? A HERETIC I AM May 2019 #67
Didn't Nixon have a decent economy too?! uponit7771 May 2019 #5
And he won his second term election by a landslide. NT enough May 2019 #10
That was pre-Nixon impeachment. Wasn't economy pretty decent after re-election & before impeachment? uponit7771 May 2019 #38
nope, it started to go to shit in 1973 (Oil Crisis, Nixon Shock etc, and stagflation ensued) Celerity May 2019 #40
Yes it was, Nixon and Red Don have close avg UE rates (link) and Red Don's JA averages are horrible uponit7771 May 2019 #42
they do not have that close of UE rates, especially in the last 19 months of Nixon versus the last Celerity May 2019 #53
I remember those 16.5% interest rates for CD's those days dhol82 May 2019 #47
I remember rampant inflation in the 70s Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin May 2019 #24
This is wall street political propaganda. democratisphere May 2019 #7
Well, I'm convinced my vote won't count, so why bother... ProudLib72 May 2019 #18
All I can say is if Trump wins who could possibly be proud to call themselves American? walkingman May 2019 #8
I'm not proud to call myself American now. In fact, I desperately want to leave OliverQ May 2019 #16
I would move to Canada if I weren't so old. Texas has become a shithole. walkingman May 2019 #17
I looked into moving to Canada. dhol82 May 2019 #49
I bailed on Texas after forty years...been in Nevada for almost twenty years now pecosbob May 2019 #60
"IF Trump wins who could possibly be proud to call themselves American?" LenaBaby61 May 2019 #27
Garbage in edhopper May 2019 #11
That 'tailwind' is nothing but gas RainCaster May 2019 #12
According to wikipedia standingtall May 2019 #13
Thank you, exactly. Baitball Blogger May 2019 #57
And this is exactly why...... DFW May 2019 #14
actually you have to declare yourself undecided dsc May 2019 #31
F* those models Clarity2 May 2019 #15
I wonder how they figure out... stillcool May 2019 #19
We do have our work cut out for us unblock May 2019 #21
Nate Silver replies: peggysue2 May 2019 #22
Except Silver does not give any evidence for his opinion. former9thward May 2019 #30
This message was self-deleted by its author John Fante May 2019 #36
Try this peggysue2 May 2019 #55
I'm glad I scrolled down Cha May 2019 #46
IF we win WI, MI, and PA this map right below is literally the only way Rump can win outright Celerity May 2019 #59
Chicago FiB here + I would not count on Wisconsin going blue . Milwaukee and MadIson had lunasun May 2019 #63
If Wisconsin stays red we have to absolutely pull PA and MI Celerity May 2019 #64
Living in and near the bluest of the blue states, I'm often stunned Totally Tunsie May 2019 #23
These models are flawed - just look at Trump's approval for proof of this. Drunken Irishman May 2019 #25
Thanks for taking the time to put those numbers together. nt pnwmom May 2019 #29
Obama had 50% on election day but not in mid 2011 which is where we are at in the cycle. former9thward May 2019 #32
Obama's hit 42% only briefly. Trump has been stuck there John Fante May 2019 #37
Again, flawed comparisons. Drunken Irishman May 2019 #39
Not the same. President Obama is a true President. Most Americans already see Trump for what he is rockfordfile May 2019 #69
It is those blinders which lead to our defeat in 2016. former9thward May 2019 #71
+1, Also ... Nixon's avg UE rate was only .2 higher than Red Don's avg (link). Not that the UE rate uponit7771 May 2019 #41
that link has data only up until the end of 2016, how does it have a UE number for Trump? Celerity May 2019 #44
Red Don's numbers are even worse then seeing Nixon's was at one time in the high 60s ... uponit7771 May 2019 #45
Excellent post. Trump matched McCain and John Fante May 2019 #43
Yes, I am aware and willing to swim saidsimplesimon May 2019 #26
And yet, despite the great economy ever (hah!) 55% say they plan to vote against Trump. pnwmom May 2019 #28
Probaby the same number of homeless that were included former9thward May 2019 #33
Every day we see the people at the top distorting the work of the career people. I don't trust pnwmom May 2019 #34
There are thousands of people involved in these numbers. former9thward May 2019 #35
That is a laughable question considering what we are seeing in the Justice Department pnwmom May 2019 #48
A non answer. former9thward May 2019 #56
And you believe that a whistleblower is going to risk prison to tell the truth about statistics. pnwmom May 2019 #58
People leak stories to the Times and Washington Post all the time. former9thward May 2019 #70
Don't pretend to know the future: it always somehow depends on what we do struggle4progress May 2019 #50
ITMF Blue Owl May 2019 #51
If Dump steals the election again, it is secession time. roamer65 May 2019 #52
I tend to believe the election results from Nov. 2018...which two years had gone by after... SWBTATTReg May 2019 #54
Most of the elections held since 2018 have shown dramatic increase in Dem turnout pecosbob May 2019 #61
There is no disputing rump's 'tailwind is large'. nt UniteFightBack May 2019 #62
Republicans mostly win by playing Dirty. things like Voter Suppression and calling on Foreign JI7 May 2019 #65
The economy in 2016 predicted a D hold, too Recursion May 2019 #68
Latest Discussions»General Discussion»3 forecast modelers predi...»Reply #25