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Tom Rinaldo

(22,911 posts)
Sat Jun 1, 2019, 12:02 PM Jun 2019

I think the alleged conventional wisdom is wrong. I think Dems retake the Senate BY Impeaching Trump [View all]

Though Democrats almost certainly would have the votes to Impeach Trump in the House, barring a stunning turn of events (Barr pun not intended) there are not enough Republicans in the Senate willing to face the anger of Trump's core Republican followers to remove Trump from office. That part of conventional wisdom I agree with. Where I differ is on the implications. I think that while most Senate Republicans would be damned if they voted to convict Trump, the ones who occupy Senate seats that Democrats have any chance of winning would be even more damned if they don't. That scenario, I believe, opens up our best real path to retaking the Senate in 2020.

Trump will not become any more popular with his core base than he already is now. They will not become any more riled up to defend his presidency in 2020 than they already are now. Sure Trump will claim that his impeachment is the deep state moving to remove the legitimate president, but Trump already makes that claim without it. He already asserts that there was a coup attempt against him.

Trump's softer support, the 10 to 15% of voters who are willing to consider voting for him without being died in the wool MAGA true believers, are the ones at stake. And right now the Trump/ Barr strategy is working with them. They will neither read the Mueller Report nor pay much attention to what they will regard as " run of the mill" congressional oversight committee meetings on Trump. Barr already programmed their "bottom line conclusions" for them. No charges were brought against the President, and as matters currently stand, no ground to impeach him have formally been asserted by Congress. They are ripe for believing that partisan political calculations drive Democratic demands that the Mueller Report must be "further investigated". Trump can sell them his line that Democrats just want a "do-over" because they are unsatisfied with the Mueller Reports conclusions which found Trump "guilty of nothing."

The clear counter to Trump's political propaganda regarding the Mueller Report is to state that Mueller has already presented Congress with sufficient evidence to warrant an impeachment inquiry now. That is not a do-over, that instead is taking the logical next step based on the evidence already established by Mueller. And THAT will rivet public attention on the evidence found in Mueller's Report, while providing Democrats with the strongest possible constitutional grounds for demanding and making public additional evidence.

Almost all of the political experts agree that the reason why Trump has a real chance of being reelected is because most economic indicators remain strong, and when that is the case an incumbent president tends to be reelected. That helps explain why many among the subset of Trump voters who find him personally unappealing might be willing to vote for him again. That is also why Trump is not polling at his lows now, even though the redacted Mueller Report has already been out for weeks.

We can forget and write off the type of voter who attends a Trump rally, but not all potential Trump voters wear MAGA hats. Blessed with an at least stable economy (inherited from Obama and juiced up with an obscene tax cut for the rich) Trump enters the 2020 election with a strong talking point in his favor since second term attempt elections are usually referendums on the incumbent. What goes against Trump is the discomfort many feel with the way he has governed, with his unpresidential, abusive and divisive style. Democrats need to drive up Trump's unfavorables in order to win in 2020. More Americans need to see him as the repulsive lying and undemocratic grifter that he is. Widely televised and intently watched impeachment hearings can and will do just that.

Then when the ball is tossed to the Republican Senate, let them go on record standing by Trump, and then let that become an election issue in all of the Senate seats that are up in 2020. Outside of the Republican core, which is already in the bag for them, let's see how voters react to the sickly partisan Republican show of unity for a deeply unethical and dangerous to America's institutions President that the impeachment hearings will have fully exposed. Let it be Republicans who are shown playing partisan games with the U.S. Constitution, not poll driven Democrats with wet fingers in the air gauging how upholding the Constitution will or will not work to their electoral advantage.

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A voice of reason in the wilderness watoos Jun 2019 #1
Sadly, wishful thinking is not reason. Wouldn't it be wonderful Hortensis Jun 2019 #40
Excellent post!! Let's impeach the lyin' traitor already... history won't wait much longer! InAbLuEsTaTe Jun 2019 #2
We owe it to the future to impeach this asshole now. diverdownjt Jun 2019 #69
Reasonable reasoning! northoftheborder Jun 2019 #3
You make a good argument, and retaking the Senate would be huge. n/t Hoyt Jun 2019 #4
Lay out the case in public Bettie Jun 2019 #5
Exactly! Maher's panel agreed with you. Duppers Jun 2019 #20
I agree for all the same reasons htuttle Jun 2019 #6
This might just work.... FM123 Jun 2019 #7
Absolutely! brutus smith Jun 2019 #35
Is that you Spock? nt G_j Jun 2019 #8
It's a far stronger argument against them if they clear him in the Senate... TCJ70 Jun 2019 #9
Agree 100%. We're looking like wimps; too afraid to start. sinkingfeeling Jun 2019 #10
K&R... spanone Jun 2019 #11
Agreed but the main reason to impeach is to get the attention of the masses. honest.abe Jun 2019 #12
100% agreed. Thank you sharedvalues Jun 2019 #13
Absolutely NRaleighLiberal Jun 2019 #14
Kick dalton99a Jun 2019 #15
I totally agree. world wide wally Jun 2019 #16
Exactly right Ligyron Jun 2019 #17
Convincing argument. The impact on senate elections wasn't something I had considered. Politicub Jun 2019 #18
I really think . . . Richard D Jun 2019 #19
Amash got a standing ovation watoos Jun 2019 #21
Moscow Mitch. mwooldri Jun 2019 #22
I was wondering that myself. How big a wrench can he throw into the works? LiberalLovinLug Jun 2019 #27
That is my main concern, and I am for impeaching. pangaia Jun 2019 #76
While I see the danger, I also think the best way forward is to impeach LiberalLovinLug Jun 2019 #23
Recommended. H2O Man Jun 2019 #24
K&R Thanks for emphasizing those points. alwaysinasnit Jun 2019 #25
A great big ol' K & R! 50 Shades Of Blue Jun 2019 #26
Which is why Pelosi is waiting aeromanKC Jun 2019 #28
If the Republicans "obstruct" directly or indirectly the Senate trail of Trump Tom Rinaldo Jun 2019 #31
If we win the Senate, there will be a Democratic leader---not Mitch! Doitnow Jun 2019 #41
and another K & R Nevermypresident Jun 2019 #29
I TOTALLY AGREE!!! WestCoastDem42 Jun 2019 #30
Also, looking strictly at the numbers.... kentuck Jun 2019 #32
Totally agree. pdsimdars Jun 2019 #33
Absolutely agree. warmfeet Jun 2019 #34
Very good perspective. 👍 sprinkleeninow Jun 2019 #36
+1 entirely agree! JackInGreen Jun 2019 #37
i think we don't know. barbtries Jun 2019 #38
Thank you. Well said. mountain grammy Jun 2019 #39
That has been my thought too. LiberalFighter Jun 2019 #42
agreed and kicked superpatriotman Jun 2019 #43
Well, I will say this: Cowardice or excuse-making won't even hold us the House. calimary Jun 2019 #44
well said n/t orleans Jun 2019 #54
Great points! I agree. Silver Gaia Jun 2019 #58
Agree with almost everything, except the "FUCK 'em!" part rufus dog Jun 2019 #68
. calimary Jun 2019 #78
"face the anger of Trump's core Republican followers to remove Trump from office" lambchopp59 Jun 2019 #45
I agree. I think we're fumbling away our chance to energize independent voters who didn't jalan48 Jun 2019 #46
My thoughts as well.... paleotn Jun 2019 #47
Yup. That's my thinking, too. Silver Gaia Jun 2019 #60
Absolute agree! rusty fender Jun 2019 #48
Exactly. mnhtnbb Jun 2019 #49
Sounds reasonable. In any event Dems showing some guts in dealing with scumbag would be refreshing. mart48 Jun 2019 #50
Great read Lunabell Jun 2019 #51
Totally agree: Make the R Sens' vote against impeachment defeat them in purple states. stuffmatters Jun 2019 #52
That's why I think impeachment should be timed to take place just before the election. backscatter712 Jun 2019 #53
I agree grantcart Jun 2019 #55
I'm an impeachment flip flopper. But I think this might be the best strategy. Buckeyeblue Jun 2019 #56
K & R! A Higher, Bolder and More Enlightened Way of Political Reasoning About Impeachment! panfluteman Jun 2019 #57
I whole-heartedly agree! Silver Gaia Jun 2019 #59
I fully agree patphil Jun 2019 #61
I believe you're ABSOLUTELY CORRECT! ElementaryPenguin Jun 2019 #62
We have to confront reality: we don't know the effect of a paper impeachment. Honeycombe8 Jun 2019 #63
I'm of the mind that it will be a neutral effect. Turin_C3PO Jun 2019 #65
Right On! I've been saying this all along. rgbecker Jun 2019 #64
Agreed great points to consider kimbutgar Jun 2019 #66
I'm ready to roll those dice... Blue Owl Jun 2019 #67
Tom, thank you saidsimplesimon Jun 2019 #70
I think the majority of the people in this country don't know what is in the Mueller Report. friend of m and j Jun 2019 #71
Thanks for sharing this, friend. And welcome to DU! nt pnwmom Jun 2019 #73
I fully agree with your intro Tom Rinaldo Jun 2019 #79
Great post. Thanks, Tom! nt pnwmom Jun 2019 #72
Once there are televised hearings with witnesses DeminPennswoods Jun 2019 #74
That was true with Nixon, who won 49 states in the 1972 election and over 60% of the popular vote Tom Rinaldo Jun 2019 #80
Yes. Thank you. D23MIURG23 Jun 2019 #75
Yes roscoeroscoe Jun 2019 #77
EXACTLY. Doing what's right brings public witness to what leadership IS. They'll vote accordingly. ancianita Jun 2019 #81
It's about timing. Dem leadership needs to act when the public questions its leadership, not later. ancianita Jun 2019 #82
"Make America America Again" I like it! n/t Tom Rinaldo Jun 2019 #83
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