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LiberalLovinLug

(14,548 posts)

280. "Burden of proof falls on accusers not the other way around."

Mon Jul 22, 2019, 08:03 PM

Jul 2019

Someone said that once.
And you have yet to provide that proof either. Surely that proving comes before any proving of Gillibrands motives after the fact. I've seen one rude photo of Al pretending to be a groper in a room full of entertainers. I've heard a story about a conservative woman that felt uneasy about Frankens hand on her waist. And a bunch of others that refuse to say who they are.

Do you actually believe Tweeden over Franken? One is a die hard Trumpster that was looking to save their station with a new sensationalist scoop, the other was a long time Democrat and liberal, and Senator that has fought for women's issues for a very long time and is in a long time loving relationship with his wife.

Of course you know, that there is no way to see inside her head, or heart to prove her intentions either way definitively. What she did, undeniably, is put Franken on the spot by declaring she was publicly calling for his resignation, without giving him a chance to even talk with her about it first. You and I can only judge her on her actions. You seem fine with those actions. I do not.

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The Case of Al Franken by Jane Mayer [View all] Dennis Donovan Jul 2019 OP

And now you know the rest of the story. democratisphere Jul 2019 #1

Justice denied, in Senator Franken's case; Dennis Donovan Jul 2019 #7

There is no excuse for Al's fellow Senators that steam rolled him. democratisphere Jul 2019 #49

I agree a million percent. MBS Jul 2019 #51

+ a brazillion. nt tblue37 Jul 2019 #96

+1000 smirkymonkey Jul 2019 #122

Pretty much confirms this was a political "hit job" DeminPennswoods Jul 2019 #58

and we've been getting punked since the 80's mountain grammy Jul 2019 #72

we don't do it to ourselves. we let limbaugh and sons do it to good people all day long certainot Jul 2019 #85

Absolutely right once again. Ligyron Jul 2019 #123

thanks. any dem that asks mueller if he saw evidence russians were using talk radio or certainot Jul 2019 #139

The entire thing was a Roger Stone ratfuck hit job. I hope Stone gets convicted and rots in prison. Texin Jul 2019 #136

the rest of the story is qazplm135 Jul 2019 #257

This article is truly wrenching. Those who defended the rail-roading of Franken REALLY hlthe2b Jul 2019 #2

...or this paragraph from his comedy colleagues: Dennis Donovan Jul 2019 #3

gee it's too bad these senators couldn't figure that out ProfessorPlum Jul 2019 #61

You are not alone. True Blue American Jul 2019 #180

I'm glad you contacted Sen. Brown ladym55 Jul 2019 #245

Sherrod is one of the best Senators True Blue American Jul 2019 #266

Well Bill, Tammy, Heidi, Angus, Jeff, Tom, Harry and Patrick, that's nice . . .. hatrack Jul 2019 #5

Harry Reid had already retired DFW Jul 2019 #23

Yes, and Heitkamp lost her election hatrack Jul 2019 #27

So did Claire DFW Jul 2019 #37

It didn't help them, either. We lost Franken for nothing. yardwork Jul 2019 #55

With an emphasis on "We." DFW Jul 2019 #70

Exactly! mountain grammy Jul 2019 #74

YAS!!!! nt Baltimike Jul 2019 #287

I'm not sure about that DFW Jul 2019 #26

Re: those who "continue to defend"... hlthe2b Jul 2019 #28

Exactly DFW Jul 2019 #36

Chuck Schumer led the Democratic coalition in the Senate. yardwork Jul 2019 #31

Kirsten Gillibrand led the Democratic coalition in the Senate. hlthe2b Jul 2019 #33

Laughably incorrect. Gillibrand is a junior senator. Schumer was the minority leader. yardwork Jul 2019 #39

Don't be condescending. We all know who is Senate minority leader, yet Gillibrand LED the effort. hlthe2b Jul 2019 #40

I didn't mean to be condescending. It's just that Schumer needs to be held accountable. yardwork Jul 2019 #54

I agree that Schumer showed poor judgement and leadership. hlthe2b Jul 2019 #56

BS Trumpocalypse Jul 2019 #84

Gee, you are late to the thread! Slept in this morning, I guess. hlthe2b Jul 2019 #112

No working Trumpocalypse Jul 2019 #147

Defending the indefensible yet again, right Tina? mountain grammy Jul 2019 #192

No just trying to recognize reality Trumpocalypse Jul 2019 #199

Like Al was? mountain grammy Jul 2019 #203

Yup Trumpocalypse Jul 2019 #204

It's just not condescending. LakeArenal Jul 2019 #108

+1000 mountain grammy Jul 2019 #182

Yep!! And,Republicans STILL laughing their azzzz off on how EASY this was to pull off Bengus81 Jul 2019 #272

Nah. I feel more like; LakeArenal Jul 2019 #273

She also said Clinton should have resigned. True Blue American Jul 2019 #181

wow, what a portrait of courage that is ProfessorPlum Jul 2019 #64

This is what happened with the Iraq war vote, too. The Dems let themselves be tblue37 Jul 2019 #101

I agree. "Stampeded" is the perfect word to describe what was taking place: herd mentality. Demit Jul 2019 #106

Oui! Mme. Defarge Jul 2019 #137

Yes, yes, yes!! mountain grammy Jul 2019 #183

As Agent K says in Men in Black ProfessorPlum Jul 2019 #186

And ACORN. n/t demmiblue Jul 2019 #189

exactly franken was acorned...the dems fall for it over and over questionseverything Jul 2019 #222

Yes, I was going to post it, too question everything Jul 2019 #290

Once more I cried for Minnesota, who lost a great Senator, and pazzyanne Jul 2019 #4

opportunist KG lost me too when she used this opp to paint herself as a champion for women. onetexan Jul 2019 #8

I couldn't either. pazzyanne Jul 2019 #10

I remain shocked by the reaction. RVN VET71 Jul 2019 #41

Thank you, well summarized onetexan Jul 2019 #63

Ironically, she could have gained even more popularity if she had called for the Ethics investigatio RVN VET71 Jul 2019 #150

+100 Duppers Jul 2019 #149

i hate how the author described him as "disgraced" - he was railroaded, but not disgraced. onetexan Jul 2019 #6

* This.* n/t Kitchari Jul 2019 #9

I take exception with your conclusion superpatriotman Jul 2019 #16

U're entitled to your opinion onetexan Jul 2019 #65

No. "our" had nothing to do with it. rockfordfile Jul 2019 #258

I know, onetexan.. I winced Cha Jul 2019 #19

exactly Cha. A good man and a great Dem leader was done in by another politician for expediency. onetexan Jul 2019 #135

+1 dalton99a Jul 2019 #83

Excellent distinction ... BlueMTexpat Jul 2019 #111

+1 geardaddy Jul 2019 #126

Bookmarking to read later FakeNoose Jul 2019 #11

As always, Mayer nails it... Dennis Donovan Jul 2019 #13

I agree, Jane Mayer is awesome FakeNoose Jul 2019 #25

Though a majority on DU not to mention in Minnesota want him back DFW Jul 2019 #297

I'll never forget... nor will I ever forgive. NurseJackie Jul 2019 #12

Full list of Dem Senators who called for his resignation: Dennis Donovan Jul 2019 #14

How many ringleaders were there? NurseJackie Jul 2019 #154

For me its unforgivable. And I am glad I will miss the oportunity to vote ... marble falls Jul 2019 #59

... NurseJackie Jul 2019 #157

After writing several still-very-angry paragraphs I decided to repeat your post... Guilded Lilly Jul 2019 #77

... NurseJackie Jul 2019 #156

KG is basically campaigning on getting Franken ousted, watoos Jul 2019 #15

Post removed Post removed Jul 2019 #30

The article delved into that as well... Dennis Donovan Jul 2019 #73

yeah, no opportunism there.... hlthe2b Jul 2019 #119

Post removed Post removed Jul 2019 #133

OMG LiberalLovinLug Jul 2019 #141

Thank you for posting that. That last paragraph should immediately end Gillibrand's campaign drbtg1 Jul 2019 #144

She has called for Trump to resign Trumpocalypse Jul 2019 #97

I won't forgive KG The Blue Flower Jul 2019 #17

What about Trumpocalypse Jul 2019 #98

see article and reply #73 above Hermit-The-Prog Jul 2019 #155

So? Trumpocalypse Jul 2019 #160

have a nice day Hermit-The-Prog Jul 2019 #161

You too Trumpocalypse Jul 2019 #164

Didn't Roger Stone have a hand in this plot? 90-percent Jul 2019 #18

Stone was at least partly behind the first accuser NewJeffCT Jul 2019 #68

Activist? Stone promotes himself as the number 1 rat fucker in the GOP grantcart Jul 2019 #86

sorry, I wasn't clear NewJeffCT Jul 2019 #90

Got it thanks😊 grantcart Jul 2019 #148

Yes...he did, and it's why I won't vote for the gaggle that fell for Stone's sucker bet. nt Baltimike Jul 2019 #78

There was a right wing troll who just pounded DU Kingofalldems Jul 2019 #20

There were MANY including some clearly on Putin's payroll. rzemanfl Jul 2019 #47

Dammit. betsuni Jul 2019 #21

Ditto. LAS14 Jul 2019 #35

The story is long, but well worth reading DFW Jul 2019 #22

Agree with you completely. Bluepinky Jul 2019 #166

I'm disappointed in every one of the Senators who called for his resignation femmedem Jul 2019 #24

To some of us, he never lost his reputation DFW Jul 2019 #29

I believed him the whole time marlakay Jul 2019 #62

I hope they learned, too, but I doubt it. It looked like a replay of "Julius Caesar." DFW Jul 2019 #69

I'm sorry to hear that... LAS14 Jul 2019 #32

It Seems It Was Out of His Hands at That Point... The_Counsel Jul 2019 #102

Post removed Post removed Jul 2019 #34

So why doesn't Franken run again? vlyons Jul 2019 #38

yes he should scarytomcat Jul 2019 #45

If I were him, I wouldn't want to be back with the people who threw me under the bus. catrose Jul 2019 #242

He should start a nationally syndicated Talk Show that specifically talks about trends Blue_true Jul 2019 #270

Roger Stone .... UpInArms Jul 2019 #42

I still like Al Franken Gothmog Jul 2019 #43

The railroading of Al Franken still makes me very angry. madaboutharry Jul 2019 #44

This. The_Counsel Jul 2019 #107

What pisses me off the most is Blue_Tires Jul 2019 #239

If either Klochabar wins the presidency or another Democrat wins... Tommy_Carcetti Jul 2019 #46

That won't happen. madaboutharry Jul 2019 #104

Why? The_Counsel Jul 2019 #109

Appointing Franken wouldn't stay a "Minnesota issue." madaboutharry Jul 2019 #124

Who cares what repubs think or do! Dont we know by now that in the absence of Kashkakat v.2.0 Jul 2019 #134

So what. The fight is always the same. LakeArenal Jul 2019 #234

The politicians, people like Schumer, don't think like us. madaboutharry Jul 2019 #236

So you are saying public opinion does not sway our Democrat leaders. LakeArenal Jul 2019 #241

Post removed Post removed Jul 2019 #262

I do think the governor, Tim Walz, would do it. The Velveteen Ocelot Jul 2019 #131

I like it Lulu KC Jul 2019 #115

I stopped all donations to the DNC, DCCC, and DSCC for a sinkingfeeling Jul 2019 #48

I just got my renewal membership watoos Jul 2019 #53

I do them monthly. sinkingfeeling Jul 2019 #71

And what did DCCC (or DNC) have to do with this? brooklynite Jul 2019 #172

If they, meaning elected Democrats, don't start taking steps to sinkingfeeling Jul 2019 #178

My point is: DCCC and DNC have no role in the Senate or Senate races. brooklynite Jul 2019 #190

So you decided to help the Republicans Trumpocalypse Jul 2019 #218

You should cut out the smooching of the DNC etc.. at every turn rockfordfile Jul 2019 #263

By what measure Trumpocalypse Jul 2019 #217

Difference between Dems and Repubs JT45242 Jul 2019 #50

Outstanding, excellent post! scarletwoman Jul 2019 #275

👀 underpants Jul 2019 #52

This breaks my heart Bettie Jul 2019 #57

ONE QUESTION...Where is the Me Too movement on the RAPIST in the oval???????????? Zoonart Jul 2019 #60

That is the question of the day. Where's the #MeToo movement on trump? calimary Jul 2019 #91

Let the people decide del19713 Jul 2019 #66

Franken had far more serious allegations against him than Tweeden the right-wing hack Tarc Jul 2019 #67

No he didn't Baltimike Jul 2019 #75

Here comes the Denial Train Tarc Jul 2019 #103

Why is a woman who complained that a man's arm around her waist made her uncomfortable because Demit Jul 2019 #110

Yes, as I recall she was the only non-Republican who wasn't "anonymous" who accused him, deurbano Jul 2019 #138

Wait...Wanting an Investigation is "Denial?" On What Planet? The_Counsel Jul 2019 #118

And yet you, rightly, supported the accusations, pre-investigation, against Kavanaugh, right? Tarc Jul 2019 #125

I didn't stopdiggin Jul 2019 #151

...the Hell Are You Talking About? The_Counsel Jul 2019 #152

False equivalency Bradshaw3 Jul 2019 #165

It is a correct equivalency Tarc Jul 2019 #283

Want some roger stone kool-aid Jakes Progress Jul 2019 #185

Why are you pushing Roger Stone type crap? rockfordfile Jul 2019 #264

Conflate much? Baltimike Jul 2019 #128

Yes, he did Tarc Jul 2019 #282

Nice try there. No dice. Because...really...NO HE DIDN'T Baltimike Jul 2019 #284

I'm sorry that you do not believe women who were sexually assaulted Tarc Jul 2019 #285

and I am sorry that you don't support a person is innocent until proven guilty Baltimike Jul 2019 #286

read the article, especially the last paragraph: Dennis Donovan Jul 2019 #76

Yes, the author investigated all of the allegations spooky3 Jul 2019 #89

The article does tend to Trumpocalypse Jul 2019 #87

Lol! Nt USALiberal Jul 2019 #88

No, it really doesn't. Dennis Donovan Jul 2019 #92

I did Trumpocalypse Jul 2019 #95

Was she included in "the other 7"? Dennis Donovan Jul 2019 #113

She was one of the other 7 Trumpocalypse Jul 2019 #145

Keep trying! Nt USALiberal Jul 2019 #140

I always keep trying to state facts Trumpocalypse Jul 2019 #146

She will drop out soon. Nt USALiberal Jul 2019 #162

Probably Trumpocalypse Jul 2019 #163

There was nothing to discuss about Kemplin wellst0nev0ter Jul 2019 #244

But we can afford to Trumpocalypse Jul 2019 #248

You said yourself Tweeden is a liar wellst0nev0ter Jul 2019 #254

Yes Trumpocalypse Jul 2019 #261

The two other named trump voters wellst0nev0ter Jul 2019 #271

None of which is proof Trumpocalypse Jul 2019 #295

So you believe Franken wellst0nev0ter Jul 2019 #298

Don't put words in my mouth Trumpocalypse Jul 2019 #299

The one accuser that has HER arm around Franken for a picture--that allegation? Bengus81 Jul 2019 #250

Can you prove that? Trumpocalypse Jul 2019 #251

The pic was on here forever,maybe I can find it........ Bengus81 Jul 2019 #253

I've seen it Trumpocalypse Jul 2019 #260

But it's proof that Franken was lying? Watch out guys.......... Bengus81 Jul 2019 #269

No never said Franken was lying either Trumpocalypse Jul 2019 #294

I don't think so. yardwork Jul 2019 #268

Think how valuable an active, office-holding Al Franken would be to us, right now. Paladin Jul 2019 #79

I pray this extensive, well-written article shepherds his re-entry into office. Dennis Donovan Jul 2019 #80

Thank you for posting this. Butterflylady Jul 2019 #81

CAN HE NOT run and win again? What am I missing - I mean if Anthony effing Weiner can Kashkakat v.2.0 Jul 2019 #82

Right. There are two Senators for every state and MN's are now filled by Dems Klobuchar and hlthe2b Jul 2019 #132

My fantasy is that Franken returns to the Senate when Klobuchar is appointed AG The Velveteen Ocelot Jul 2019 #255

Works for me... hlthe2b Jul 2019 #256

One interesting passage. Trumpocalypse Jul 2019 #93

Truth be damned. /nt tonedevil Jul 2019 #168

Which ones where those? 58Sunliner Jul 2019 #232

NOW in particular Trumpocalypse Jul 2019 #235

Is it me, or do Dems seem to be more gullible than Repukes? Farmer-Rick Jul 2019 #94

I think Dems are more trusting Trumpocalypse Jul 2019 #99

Shirley Sherrod says hello. /nt tonedevil Jul 2019 #169

way more gullible questionseverything Jul 2019 #279

There's some useful context about the photo Shrek Jul 2019 #100

After he resigned: "Gillibrand and other Senate colleagues flocked to hug him..." catrose Jul 2019 #105

Yes indeedy Lulu KC Jul 2019 #116

Good point. Bluepinky Jul 2019 #171

What happened was that Franken made some of his other colleagues look bad by doing such a good job PoliticAverse Jul 2019 #179

Excellent article and investigative reporting (as usual) by Jane Mayer. MFGsunny Jul 2019 #114

Excellent example of groupthink Lulu KC Jul 2019 #117

Photos proving another Tweeden lie spedtr90 Jul 2019 #120

She said that any time she saw Franken afterward her hands "clenched into fists." Demit Jul 2019 #159

Prejudice. MuseRider Jul 2019 #121

For me, the resolution is to call for an investigation and due process. Nt spooky3 Jul 2019 #237

I would love to see that. MuseRider Jul 2019 #281

I support Al Franken 100%. klook Jul 2019 #127

no hearing . no confronting of witnesses , just her word against his . AllaN01Bear Jul 2019 #129

There would have been no confronting of witnesses Trumpocalypse Jul 2019 #173

thanks for your information AllaN01Bear Jul 2019 #215

The sadist thing I have read for months is Al saying NCjack Jul 2019 #130

This part, also: demmiblue Jul 2019 #142

I disagree with Al LiberalLovinLug Jul 2019 #143

How did Trumpocalypse Jul 2019 #175

Take out a shining star LiberalLovinLug Jul 2019 #187

And your proof of that Trumpocalypse Jul 2019 #197

Proof of what? LiberalLovinLug Jul 2019 #212

Proof of your accusation Trumpocalypse Jul 2019 #216

I could say the same to in regards to Franken LiberalLovinLug Jul 2019 #224

No you provided no evidence Trumpocalypse Jul 2019 #229

Prove that she didn't wellst0nev0ter Jul 2019 #247

I'm not the one making the accusation Trumpocalypse Jul 2019 #249

Then Franken's accusers got a lot to prove wellst0nev0ter Jul 2019 #252

As I've asked you many times before Trumpocalypse Jul 2019 #259

"Burden of proof falls on accusers not the other way around." LiberalLovinLug Jul 2019 #280

Very true Trumpocalypse Jul 2019 #293

Fair enough LiberalLovinLug Jul 2019 #300

No that is not what the article says Trumpocalypse Jul 2019 #302

"leader" "initiator" "first out of the gate" LiberalLovinLug Jul 2019 #303

Don't put words in my mouth Trumpocalypse Jul 2019 #304

No one knows. LiberalLovinLug Jul 2019 #305

So all the others were just blind followers Trumpocalypse Jul 2019 #307

She didn't. Mr.Bill Jul 2019 #191

How do you know that? Trumpocalypse Jul 2019 #198

It's my opinion. Mr.Bill Jul 2019 #205

Opinions should be based on fact. Trumpocalypse Jul 2019 #207

Where did I mention Hatred? Mr.Bill Jul 2019 #213

You didn't have to Trumpocalypse Jul 2019 #214

Gillibrand should resign rockfordfile Jul 2019 #265

I've been waiting for that "Post Removed" person rzemanfl Jul 2019 #153

Saw this in a HuffPo comment: LongtimeAZDem Jul 2019 #158

It was a travesty Joinfortmill Jul 2019 #167

There's nothing new here, and Meyer leaves a lot out. WhiskeyGrinder Jul 2019 #170

PLEASE RUN AGAIN AL. zentrum Jul 2019 #174

I'm reading the article and it sounds like Franken was railroaded more than I previously Vinca Jul 2019 #176

Gillibrand Can Attribute Much of Her Primary Failure To Her Treatment of Al Franken. Indykatie Jul 2019 #177

I called her office and warned them that grassroots Democratic activists will never ever forgive her Princetonian Jul 2019 #188

Maybe Franken wasn't the target leftstreet Jul 2019 #193

So what are you feelings about Trumpocalypse Jul 2019 #200

They have been able to dodge a bullet... tonedevil Jul 2019 #208

Of course the media never bothers to question them about it Trumpocalypse Jul 2019 #210

I haven't either... tonedevil Jul 2019 #221

The media is lazy Trumpocalypse Jul 2019 #225

Whatever makes you happy. /nt tonedevil Jul 2019 #227

What makes me happy is irrelevant Trumpocalypse Jul 2019 #230

Gillibrand should resign. She's a bad stain on our Democratic Party. rockfordfile Jul 2019 #267

Should Harris, Sanders, Booker and Warren Trumpocalypse Jul 2019 #292

Franken said: "I'm angry at my colleagues who did this." I am too. Princetonian Jul 2019 #184

"I'm going to die alone in the jungle" Amazing how far back in evolutionary terms mob violence goes Hekate Jul 2019 #194

Franken resigned Progressive dog Jul 2019 #195

If you completely ignore the effect... tonedevil Jul 2019 #196

So again, you blame Democrats Progressive dog Jul 2019 #202

You think that the majority... tonedevil Jul 2019 #206

Yes, it is. Progressive dog Jul 2019 #211

I certainly have a different... tonedevil Jul 2019 #219

Well said. OnDoutside Jul 2019 #220

Yes, the police can decide to charge you, Progressive dog Jul 2019 #231

The abandonment of Franken... tonedevil Jul 2019 #238

What part of Franken's resignation Progressive dog Jul 2019 #243

OK /nt tonedevil Jul 2019 #246

You don't hire teams of lawyers or PR people if the allegations are false DFW Jul 2019 #201

Of course you hire lawyers Progressive dog Jul 2019 #209

Which women were those again? 58Sunliner Jul 2019 #233

I'm glad she wrote this article, but I hate how she characterizes him in the opening. femmedem Jul 2019 #223

I would vote for Gillibrand if need be. Collimator Jul 2019 #226

I am disgusted with everyone who railroaded Al Skittles Jul 2019 #228

I love you Al and I miss you. 58Sunliner Jul 2019 #240

Since posting this 13 hrs ago... Dennis Donovan Jul 2019 #274

+1 dalton99a Jul 2019 #296

Gillibrand didn't talk to any of the accusers to assess their credibility suegeo Jul 2019 #276

Just finished. Now I'm more pissed than the day he was forced out of the senate. IADEMO2004 Jul 2019 #277

What happened to Al Franken was travisty MustLoveBeagles Jul 2019 #278

The New Yorker has been bugging me for years to subscribe lordsummerisle Jul 2019 #288

I am so ashamed of the Dems. We are entering a new puritanism on our side of the aisle... Hekate Jul 2019 #289

And depending on how certain investigations play out lordsummerisle Jul 2019 #291

I've heard a lot about Franken since I live in WI just across the Mississippi from MN. elocs Jul 2019 #301

Here's one report of Franken's "misconduct" as reported in the New Yorker article. Vinca Jul 2019 #306

Oh brother MustLoveBeagles Jul 2019 #308