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ProSense

(116,464 posts)
34. Where does it say
Sat Sep 29, 2012, 09:51 PM
Sep 2012

"you will be ordered to pay over $80 a month for insurance"?

You can opt out. Pay the less $95 annual penalty. What does a person earning $20,000 with an employer's plan pay now?

You better believe some can't afford it, and those who choose to are like paying a lot more than $80.

Wow - what a well researched and lengthy article. DURHAM D Sep 2012 #1
What a copout response. Are you saying it's wrong or not? Zalatix Sep 2012 #2
I don't know if it is wrong or not, neither do you, and neither does Louise. DURHAM D Sep 2012 #8
Oh I know it's not wrong. I'd bet my ass on that. Zalatix Sep 2012 #9
THERE IS NO MANDATE, PERIOD. southernyankeebelle Sep 2012 #57
THERE IS NO MOON. PERIOD. Zalatix Sep 2012 #80
if people can't afford it, they won't have to pay it. Voice for Peace Sep 2012 #105
Who's going to decide if we can or can't afford it? XemaSab Sep 2012 #126
There must be something in writing, whether in the ACA . . . freedom fighter jh Sep 2012 #152
me, I will decide. just give me all your bank information. Voice for Peace Sep 2012 #170
You going to put some money in there? XemaSab Sep 2012 #247
Darn and here I thought Newty Fruity was going to put families on the moon. Oh well. southernyankeebelle Sep 2012 #348
There may be no Mandate on YOUR planet, bvar22 Sep 2012 #341
Well maybe it is or not but it should be mandated. Buy what you can afford and the government southernyankeebelle Sep 2012 #347
No! I support a Democratic Party plan for HealthCare over your Republican approach. bvar22 Sep 2012 #358
I believe we are all having a conversation. southernyankeebelle Sep 2012 #359
What % would drop coverage in the next five years without the ACA? cthulu2016 Sep 2012 #3
Well, we do know that McDonald's and a few others got WAIVERS Zalatix Sep 2012 #6
You forgot ... 1StrongBlackMan Sep 2012 #15
McDonald's corporate has more than 50 employees. Just ONE of the mistakes in your argument. Zalatix Sep 2012 #20
I know the McDonald's corporation has more than 50 employees ... 1StrongBlackMan Sep 2012 #98
WTF... I didn't say I don't like OBAMACARE. Stop pushing that lie. Zalatix Sep 2012 #101
I didn't say I don't like wine ... I just don't like the grapes ... 1StrongBlackMan Sep 2012 #115
The Individual Mandate isn't the grape. It's the worm inside the grape. Zalatix Sep 2012 #122
The Individual Mandate Comes with the Territory On the Road Sep 2012 #208
Doesn't matter regardless if what is said downthread is true. Zalatix Sep 2012 #212
Howard Dean says they did it in Vermont. dkf Sep 2012 #238
So you're claiming we can't read? jeff47 Sep 2012 #276
"The individual mandate is one of the key features of the ACA." Uh, NO IT IS NOT. Zalatix Sep 2012 #282
Is it necessarily a bad thing to untie health insurance / employment? LiberalAndProud Sep 2012 #281
Employers started decreasing ins. for empees several years ago. They started charging employees Honeycombe8 Sep 2012 #142
But, GIVING birth is cheaper? Fawke Em Sep 2012 #177
A forbes article in may had this to say Mojorabbit Sep 2012 #284
The ACA originally had provisions to try and pry people away from employer-based health insurance. BenzoDia Sep 2012 #4
There was talk of ... 1StrongBlackMan Sep 2012 #22
Pry them away? It's employers who want to get free of their healthcare obligation. HiPointDem Sep 2012 #125
Well, employers who offer insurance want to get a better deal with insurance companies by bringing a BenzoDia Sep 2012 #130
i'm not clear on what you mean. HiPointDem Sep 2012 #145
Employers get a better deal on insurance plans if they offer a larger number of people. BenzoDia Sep 2012 #157
no, that part i understand. it's the way you're using "opt out" i don't understand. it's not HiPointDem Sep 2012 #160
Oh, I see what you're asking. BenzoDia Sep 2012 #175
ok, now i get it. HiPointDem Sep 2012 #184
Stop it ... 1StrongBlackMan Sep 2012 #5
I'll stop when you can show how people earning just $20k a year won't get socked with an extra Zalatix Sep 2012 #7
Let em dump 'em ProSense Sep 2012 #10
I don't think humanity itself will live to see Single Payer in America. Zalatix Sep 2012 #12
You're conflating issues. n/t ProSense Sep 2012 #13
Not at all. Zalatix Sep 2012 #16
Wait ProSense Sep 2012 #21
Public option will never happen. Not unless we split up the country. Zalatix Sep 2012 #29
"Not unless we split up the country." ProSense Sep 2012 #38
What, you couldn't read what was posted? Zalatix Sep 2012 #56
You have no point. ProSense Sep 2012 #64
You're living in denial. Medicare for All isn't happening in America. You're living a fantasy. Zalatix Sep 2012 #69
Again, you have no point. n/t ProSense Sep 2012 #82
Again, you are living in denial. I have a perfect and error-free point, you just have no case here. Zalatix Sep 2012 #85
First of all you will only live for no more than 110 years RegieRocker Sep 2012 #219
Keep dreaming. Feel free to serve up crow if it EVER happens. Zalatix Sep 2012 #233
Most will die in the next few years RegieRocker Sep 2012 #269
There is another option here--single payer state by state eridani Sep 2012 #256
Finally, a voice of reason. Zalatix Sep 2012 #257
People that can't afford insurance will be provided federal subsidies. BenzoDia Sep 2012 #11
As I said, if you earn only $20K a year you will be ordered to pay over $80 a month for insurance. Zalatix Sep 2012 #14
It doesn't say that. n/t ProSense Sep 2012 #19
Yes it does. And since you denied it, I'll end this debate with a screencap. Zalatix Sep 2012 #23
Where does it say ProSense Sep 2012 #34
You yourself admit there is a tax penalty for non-compliance. Zalatix Sep 2012 #39
Nice try. You said: "you will be ordered to pay over $80 a month for insurance" ProSense Sep 2012 #42
Uh, yes you will. And there's a PENALTY for non-compliance to serve as enforcement. Zalatix Sep 2012 #70
This message was self-deleted by its author AnotherMcIntosh Sep 2012 #171
Oh but haven't you heard? The IRS can't enforce that penalty with levies or criminal proceedings. Zalatix Sep 2012 #213
It says in 2014 the penalty is $95 per adult or 1% of family income, whichever is greater dflprincess Sep 2012 #114
Holy shit that's worse than I thought. Zalatix Sep 2012 #141
It's $95 per adult ProSense Sep 2012 #148
A family of 4 would not get the penalty. They get Medicaid. Zalatix Sep 2012 #151
Huh? ProSense Sep 2012 #159
The question is about one who's unemployed and one who's earning $20K Zalatix Sep 2012 #161
Wow, that's some argument. ProSense Sep 2012 #203
To call that response 'tangential' is to be charitable. Zalatix Sep 2012 #215
You are exempted from the mandate if you cannot afford it. BenzoDia Sep 2012 #24
$20k a month ain't low enough. Zalatix Sep 2012 #27
The law says "no criminal action or liens can be imposed on people who don’t pay the fine" BenzoDia Sep 2012 #45
"You can also apply for a waiver asking not to pay an assessment if you don't qualify automatically" ProSense Sep 2012 #48
If you're earning above the poverty level you won't succeed in applying for a waiver. Give it up. Zalatix Sep 2012 #53
Nonsense. n/t ProSense Sep 2012 #55
Well then shouldn't you? treestar Sep 2012 #26
See the chart above. $20k/month income = you get gouged $84 a month. Zalatix Sep 2012 #28
Nonsense. ProSense Sep 2012 #36
You're making up things I did not say. Zalatix Sep 2012 #43
Really? ProSense Sep 2012 #51
No, first you apologize for falsely accusing me of something I never said. Zalatix Sep 2012 #60
Apologize for disagreeing with you? ProSense Sep 2012 #63
What part of "You accused me of something I did not say" do you NOT understand? Zalatix Sep 2012 #73
I think your ProSense Sep 2012 #91
Again: What part of "You accused me of something I did not say" do you NOT understand? Zalatix Sep 2012 #94
I've made less than 20K as a self employed person treestar Sep 2012 #131
With that kind of skimpy coverage, you are guaranteed to go bankrupt if you have seious expenses eridani Sep 2012 #266
When they had no insurance at all, those bills were much higher treestar Sep 2012 #297
When they had no insurance, they could at least pay for routine care n/t eridani Oct 2012 #360
I make less than 20k a year, working full time darkangel218 Sep 2012 #352
Afford is subjective. As defined some will be able to afford it and others won't. TheKentuckian Sep 2012 #355
This message was self-deleted by its author JaneyVee Sep 2012 #46
The Republican WSJ article is WRONG. Since when do empers "care" about employee health coverage? Honeycombe8 Sep 2012 #146
That person can take a penalty, instead. It won't be much. But 'm guessing the person will be GLAD Honeycombe8 Sep 2012 #155
"They can get a job where an employer provides coverage"? and you call the WSJ Republican?? Zalatix Sep 2012 #166
Yes, the WSJ is Republican, and you posted the article. ProSense Sep 2012 #172
Republicans were the ones who first PUSHED THE MANDATE. Zalatix Sep 2012 #180
Everyone knows that. Common knowledge. Republicans also started the child credit, even for those Honeycombe8 Sep 2012 #305
I think you need to enlightenment Sep 2012 #201
I think you need learn reality. We don't have single payer. We have an ins. system. Honeycombe8 Sep 2012 #310
A little over 30 days to the election, and DUers are posting Wall Street Journal articles Nye Bevan Sep 2012 #17
Given that the WJS has Romney strategists CitizenPatriot Sep 2012 #31
The ACA isn't the problem, it's the Mandate. That's a Mitt Romney idea, a Heritage Foundation idea. Zalatix Sep 2012 #35
It's also a Swiss idea. BenzoDia Sep 2012 #52
It's a sucky idea. I wish we were more like England or Canada. Zalatix Sep 2012 #187
You've yet to explain how it works without a mandate. jeff47 Sep 2012 #278
Standard GOP ... WSJ says it ... some Democrate sees it, and dispairs. JoePhilly Sep 2012 #93
Yup, quietly cede the country to the Koches or revolt, which is their plan... freshwest Sep 2012 #345
Using the Oregon Health Plan Exchange calculator - bhikkhu Sep 2012 #18
People earning $20k a year can't afford another $84-85 a month expense on their budget Zalatix Sep 2012 #25
Are we assuming a current health expenditure level of $0? cthulu2016 Sep 2012 #30
Yes. A lot of people spend $0 on health care right now because their budgets are already overburdene Zalatix Sep 2012 #33
More nonsense ProSense Sep 2012 #58
More denials on your part. Zalatix Sep 2012 #66
You're laughing? ProSense Sep 2012 #74
You will be ordered to pay over $80 a month. Failure to comply means a monetary PENALTY. Zalatix Sep 2012 #78
"Failure to comply means a monetary PENALTY" of $8/mo assessed at tax time. ProSense Sep 2012 #84
You're out of your league with basic mathematics. Zalatix Sep 2012 #87
Psst: ProSense Sep 2012 #90
Once again you fail basic mathematics. Zalatix Sep 2012 #95
What's the ProSense Sep 2012 #100
Ah, I see what your problem is. Zalatix Sep 2012 #107
"The tax penalty will only be $8 a month in 2014" ProSense Sep 2012 #116
The only way I can be wrong is if the tax penalty is not $695 in 2016. Otherwise... you lose. Zalatix Sep 2012 #119
It's $95 in 2014, and you're wrong long before 2016. n/t ProSense Sep 2012 #137
$695 or higher in 2016 is not wrong. Sorry, you're just off-base here. $695 in 2016! Zalatix Sep 2012 #143
Insurance is not care. At that level of payment for useless crap, the money-- eridani Sep 2012 #274
I raise a family of four on 28k a year bhikkhu Sep 2012 #71
That is impossible in America. Unless you are homeless. Zalatix Sep 2012 #75
Don't be callous and ridiculous! n/t ProSense Sep 2012 #77
Callous? You guys are the ones talking about slapping the working poor Zalatix Sep 2012 #79
No, that's your imagination. ProSense Sep 2012 #88
You still don't grasp reality here. Zalatix Sep 2012 #97
They don't have to, and ProSense Sep 2012 #109
You still don't comprehend. Zalatix Sep 2012 #123
How much is a person earning $20,000 paying now? n/t ProSense Sep 2012 #128
Nothing. Because they can't afford to. Zalatix Sep 2012 #133
So your argument is that ProSense Sep 2012 #135
"Should continue not having insurance"? More like, they have no choice but not to have it. Zalatix Sep 2012 #139
They ProSense Sep 2012 #153
It's not a choice. It's a mathematical certainty. Zalatix Sep 2012 #156
Would it ProSense Sep 2012 #167
You can now admit that you twisted what I said. Zalatix Sep 2012 #176
Comprehension: "As if" doesn't mean you said it. ProSense Sep 2012 #179
Backpedaling: "Uh, I didn't mean it that way" Zalatix Sep 2012 #181
No, single payer isn't free and baseless shit stirring isn't a valid argument. n/t ProSense Sep 2012 #182
Nobody said or implied single payer was free, and bullshit lies aren't valid arguments either. Zalatix Sep 2012 #185
What will it cost a person earning $20,000 ProSense Sep 2012 #188
A LOT less than it costs now. Zalatix Sep 2012 #190
Medicare is minimum $99 per month. ProSense Sep 2012 #198
No, that's not what Medicare for All would cost. Not even close. Your facts are way off. Zalatix Sep 2012 #211
What am I missing here, ProSense? I wish I only had to pay $80/month. freshwest Sep 2012 #271
Good post. Thanks. ProSense Sep 2012 #275
And what if an employer had to pay only $80 a month bhikkhu Sep 2012 #320
I wonder if this is the same $80 figure that this OP is about? I don't understand what is happening. freshwest Sep 2012 #344
I'm sure it varies depending on where you live, but it is very possible where I live bhikkhu Sep 2012 #81
Wait a second. Zalatix Sep 2012 #149
My income of $28k supports 4, the other example is for a single adult living alone bhikkhu Sep 2012 #163
You're not getting Medicare for all, so just stop harping on that... TreasonousBastard Sep 2012 #32
Prior to ACA, your 20k a year worker would have been on the hook for $3400. lumberjack_jeff Sep 2012 #37
Not true. And who are you fooling with the "don't pay the penalty... nothing happens"? LOL!!! Zalatix Sep 2012 #47
Fooling? Only the illiterate, I guess. lumberjack_jeff Sep 2012 #59
What the hell are you talking about? ProSense Sep 2012 #62
Wow, you didn't even read over what you posted. Zalatix Sep 2012 #83
Wrong. See post #65 BenzoDia Sep 2012 #89
And if your fantasyland rebuttal has any basis in reality, the consequences will be DIRE. Zalatix Sep 2012 #136
Nothing "fantasyland" about it. It's right there in the law and the Supreme Court ruling. BenzoDia Sep 2012 #140
Fantasyland or Dystopia, pick it. You're either wrong, or you'll wish you were. Zalatix Sep 2012 #144
How do they get a 70% discount if they still can't afford the $80 a month? hughee99 Sep 2012 #86
Companies were ALREADY planning on dropping employee plans. NashvilleLefty Sep 2012 #40
You will see Medicare for All here in America when America is dead and gone. Zalatix Sep 2012 #49
I disagree. But in the meantime we have the ACA. NashvilleLefty Sep 2012 #162
Since most working families ... 1StrongBlackMan Sep 2012 #41
Please provide one single piece of legislation that has been enacted ... 1StrongBlackMan Sep 2012 #44
It's a mixed bag...Many of us will have to suffer while others will see a relief... KoKo Sep 2012 #50
"it will be hell for those of us wanting to have access to the the health care we used to have" ProSense Sep 2012 #54
The Change Over from the Status Quo through 2014 when the rest kicks in KoKo Sep 2012 #356
They have been dropping coverage steadily for years. as we all know. robinlynne Sep 2012 #61
Hey everyone, OP is just fear whipping. In the Supreme Court's ruling... BenzoDia Sep 2012 #65
It's self-aggrandizing shit stirring. n/t ProSense Sep 2012 #68
All it takes is a stroke of a pen... derby378 Sep 2012 #72
All it takes is a stroke of a pen to change any law in effect. BenzoDia Sep 2012 #76
Hey everyone, BenzoDia just explained how ludicrous the Individual Mandate is! Zalatix Sep 2012 #92
Very few people gamed the Massachusett's, The Netherlands' or Switzerland's mandate BenzoDia Sep 2012 #102
Low income people in MA go bankrupt or die eridani Sep 2012 #277
No, I think you got pwn'd. n/t ProSense Sep 2012 #104
You think a lot of things, all of which have been wrong today. Zalatix Sep 2012 #108
The Act, however, bars the IRS from using several of its normal enforcement tools, such as criminal ProSense Sep 2012 #120
And as I said, if that fantasyland assessment is true, these consequences are unavoidable. Zalatix Sep 2012 #127
"Millions of people who are uninsured now won't pay for insurance in 2014." ProSense Sep 2012 #164
Why do you keep arguing that the penalty won't go up to $695 in 2016? Zalatix Sep 2012 #174
16 million more will qualify for Medicaid ProSense Sep 2012 #178
Why don't you believe that the tax penalty will go up to $695 in 2016? Zalatix Sep 2012 #186
What does it ProSense Sep 2012 #191
There will be those who cheat society, but I think most of us will contribute to a fair system. Hoyt Sep 2012 #293
Of course any move toward a public health insurance program will lead to..... Swede Atlanta Sep 2012 #67
Individual states can get waivers and do their own thing, like Single Payer, as Vermont is doing. nt patrice Sep 2012 #96
So... move out of places like Texas? Zalatix Sep 2012 #99
You could move here ProSense Sep 2012 #103
Sorry, but I don't want to be your neighbor. Zalatix Sep 2012 #112
Oregon's nice, and has its own very good ACA-compliant system in the works bhikkhu Sep 2012 #204
No, quit your bitching and take some responsibility for what happens in your state. Even a moderate patrice Sep 2012 #113
Quit your bitching at me! Unless you think I can INDOCTRINATE the whole state by myself. Zalatix Sep 2012 #117
Yep. Don't bother. Whatever you do is nothing anyway. There is no effect that you can have that is patrice Sep 2012 #121
Contrary to popular belief, one person cannot change the world. It takes the help of millions. Zalatix Sep 2012 #124
And you have no clue about how you might become more than one? No wonder you are patrice Sep 2012 #129
Okay so what have you done to change the world, and how successful have you been? Zalatix Sep 2012 #134
I have done more than I can tell, some small things, some not so small things, ever since patrice Sep 2012 #158
And with all that effort, have you been able to get Medicare for All passed? Zalatix Sep 2012 #183
Nevermind. You are either too ignorant or too incapable of understanding. Carry on with your whine. patrice Sep 2012 #196
You're just too confused and irrational to do anything but bitch aimlessly at me. Zalatix Sep 2012 #220
If you think it's only about success as you define it, you are an authoritarian, apparently without patrice Sep 2012 #169
You throw around some big words without knowing their meaning. Zalatix Sep 2012 #193
That's the problem with ideologically driven results jberryhill Sep 2012 #209
And for those who choose not to pay for insurance or pay the tax penalty, there is no step forward. Zalatix Sep 2012 #216
Bullshit jberryhill Sep 2012 #287
Then by all means wake me up when Medicare for All happens. LOL. Zalatix Sep 2012 #298
Clinton had a good line on Jon Stewart's program jberryhill Sep 2012 #210
Yes. jeff47 Sep 2012 #279
You way over estimate your own perspicacity not only in thinking no one else expected that effect patrice Sep 2012 #106
Wow. I said "I and others". How did that come out to me thinking no one else saw this? Zalatix Sep 2012 #111
I am merely pointing out that to those, whom you may think it is news, it isn't. nt patrice Sep 2012 #118
AAAAHHHH! The Individual Mandate gonna git us!!! porphyrian Sep 2012 #110
Speaking of fail, from your own cite: Zalatix Sep 2012 #132
OH NO! President Obama changed his mind about something since he became... porphyrian Sep 2012 #296
That has nothing to do with the mandate. It has to do with perceived increase costs for the ACA... Honeycombe8 Sep 2012 #138
The reality is employers have been dropping health insurance as a benefit for years Samantha Sep 2012 #147
Exactly... Sekhmets Daughter Sep 2012 #154
It's fascinating ProSense Sep 2012 #150
Many employers, at least small business owners, were going to end ecstatic Sep 2012 #165
And the costs are the result of a FOR PROFIT insurance system. Control the profit = begin to patrice Sep 2012 #173
Fear mongering. Loudestlib Sep 2012 #168
You won't be saying that when the working poor get socked hard in 2014. Zalatix Sep 2012 #189
"Socked hard" because they still can't afford insurance? ProSense Sep 2012 #194
Oh yeah, you still believe they'll only have to pay a $8/month tax penalty for non-compliance Zalatix Sep 2012 #199
Let's set aside the fact that you don't seem to know the ACA. Loudestlib Sep 2012 #235
Speaking of not knowing the ACA, you just called the ACA a REPUBLICAN PLAN!!! Zalatix Sep 2012 #251
it's my understanding that employers that dont offer health insurance will be required to pay a fine notadmblnd Sep 2012 #192
They'll save money by paying the tax penalty instead of paying for health care benefits Zalatix Sep 2012 #195
Bullshit. You're just guessing. Period. Lex Sep 2012 #202
And fooling a lot of people. ProSense Sep 2012 #205
You fail basic math. Period. I'm not guessing, I am absolutely CERTAIN. Zalatix Sep 2012 #206
Stop ProSense Sep 2012 #207
No guesswork here, you still don't read your own cites. Zalatix Sep 2012 #217
You cite nothing. Lex Sep 2012 #222
Why should I, when ProSense's own cites contradict him? Zalatix Sep 2012 #224
Leave me out of the clownish argument. n/t ProSense Sep 2012 #226
You leave this clownish argument and it will stop being clownish. Zalatix Sep 2012 #228
This message was self-deleted by its author Lex Sep 2012 #230
Evidently, you're in denial and ProSense Sep 2012 #225
No denial here, your facts are flat out wrong and you're trying to force feed me nonsense Zalatix Sep 2012 #227
Here: ProSense Sep 2012 #231
How Small Business Owners Get Health Insurance: they PAY for it, like everyone else. Zalatix Sep 2012 #234
Your comments are now hilarious ProSense Sep 2012 #239
Your comments are now silly hour. Zalatix Sep 2012 #242
Wrong. Sorry. You are guessing at this. AGAIN. Lex Sep 2012 #221
No, the problem is that you don't know what you're talking about. Zalatix Sep 2012 #223
that's right, there will be no enforcement of the tax penalty notadmblnd Sep 2012 #237
I said, someone upthread CLAIMED there will be no enforcement. That is, of course, wrong. Zalatix Sep 2012 #244
No, I never mentioned it. notadmblnd Sep 2012 #346
This message was self-deleted by its author AnotherMcIntosh Sep 2012 #197
Absurd! n/t ProSense Sep 2012 #200
This message was self-deleted by its author AnotherMcIntosh Sep 2012 #218
That has nothing to do with the ACA. ProSense Sep 2012 #232
It certainly has something to do with the individual mandate. Zalatix Sep 2012 #248
Nothing, absolutely nothing. n/t ProSense Sep 2012 #250
Denial isn't a river in Egypt, ya know. Zalatix Sep 2012 #252
You're quoting the ProSense Sep 2012 #254
Are you okay? Zalatix Sep 2012 #255
LOL! It's irrelevant to the IRS' actions as they relate to ACA. ProSense Sep 2012 #259
Yeah, you're tired. Zalatix Sep 2012 #261
No, I think you're spinning. ProSense Sep 2012 #263
There's no spin here, you just don't understand human nature. Zalatix Sep 2012 #301
This message was self-deleted by its author AnotherMcIntosh Sep 2012 #292
Claiming that the IRS is powerless to collect money.... bvar22 Oct 2012 #370
I'm not sure which is more absurd - if they're wrong, or if they're right. Zalatix Sep 2012 #236
Well THAT'S interesting. Le Taz Hot Sep 2012 #290
All this woe-is-me talk about the individual mandate. Let's take a look at the #1 rated healthcare 4lbs Sep 2012 #214
Math, math, math! The population of France is 65 million. America? 300 million. Zalatix Sep 2012 #240
You need to stop ProSense Sep 2012 #243
So which part are you confused about here? Zalatix Sep 2012 #246
Sure, ProSense Sep 2012 #249
Do you know what I said when I said "The tax on the top earners is also a damned good idea"? Zalatix Sep 2012 #253
And it's still apple to apples. ProSense Sep 2012 #258
It'll cost less than in France, and less than $84 a month. Zalatix Sep 2012 #262
Will it be less than the 2014 penalty of $8 ProSense Sep 2012 #268
Dear God, you don't even do math right. Zalatix Sep 2012 #270
No it doesn't. ProSense Sep 2012 #272
Yeah, your math is not strong here, ProSense. Zalatix Sep 2012 #300
This was fun ProSense Sep 2012 #304
People will game the system to death. Enjoy! Zalatix Sep 2012 #317
I think whatever "savings" there are from "large numbers" occurs well before 65 million insured. Hoyt Sep 2012 #295
The OP won't stop his fearmongering no matter what. DevonRex Sep 2012 #264
France also subsidizes low income people, and the government DICTATES health care prices eridani Sep 2012 #280
+1 leftstreet Sep 2012 #331
True. I support all that. But the OP's main whine is about the individual mandate. 4lbs Sep 2012 #336
No, the OP was about a mandate to enrich private insurance companies eridani Oct 2012 #361
Employers have steadily been dropping healthcare ANYWAY, because costs have been rising. pnwmom Sep 2012 #229
If a LOT of employers stop providing plans, I can't help but think the gateley Sep 2012 #241
Healthcare... deathrind Sep 2012 #245
Employers dropping coverage is what will GET us true universal health care SoCalDem Sep 2012 #260
Good sakibsust Sep 2012 #265
You may not give a shit if this hurts Obama's election chances DevonRex Sep 2012 #267
Seriously? I need a list of banned sites that I should not cite. Zalatix Sep 2012 #273
I disagree with the OP but cali Sep 2012 #289
DURec KG Sep 2012 #283
"People were warned this was coming."...Ok, confess...you wear skinny jeans. renie408 Sep 2012 #285
Factless? Emo? Oh I see, you lack for a coherent argument so instead you have to throw a tantrum. Zalatix Sep 2012 #286
LOL...you are the only person throwing a tantrum. renie408 Sep 2012 #288
There you go, throwing another damned hissyfit. Zalatix Sep 2012 #299
I think you forgot "nahney nahney boo boo" renie408 Sep 2012 #343
I sure did. And then you went and did it instead! Zalatix Sep 2012 #351
Employers have used any and no excuse to cut pay and benefits quaker bill Sep 2012 #291
The ONLY reason why I and many of my friends voted for Obama was because he was against the coldwaterintheface Sep 2012 #294
I wouldn't say that's cause to be less excited to vote this year. Zalatix Sep 2012 #302
"Obama was railroaded into the Individual Mandate." ProSense Sep 2012 #306
You do remember that Obama OPPOSED the Individual Mandate during his campaign, right? Zalatix Sep 2012 #308
After your comments ProSense Sep 2012 #311
"Guessing". You do not understand what that word actually means. Zalatix Sep 2012 #313
Wow, you're linking to a wingnut site? Really? ProSense Sep 2012 #323
Bah, I thought it said CBS news. The rest of your argument was refuted in #316. Zalatix Sep 2012 #327
And your BS was smacked down in #325. ProSense Sep 2012 #328
You seem to like to confuse spin doctoring with "smacking down". Zalatix Sep 2012 #335
Railroaded my Ass, he did not even fight coldwaterintheface Sep 2012 #349
Another Thank God It Passed! Safetykitten Sep 2012 #303
I'll let this guy explain why The Mandate is a BAD idea for America. bvar22 Sep 2012 #307
Why would anyone argue? Here's what he said ProSense Sep 2012 #312
Wow, you woke up as confused as you were last night. Zalatix Sep 2012 #316
Bullshit! ProSense Sep 2012 #325
Candidate Obama was very clear that he opposed The Mandate during Campaign 2008. bvar22 Sep 2012 #319
He might have sank Hillary over just that issue. Zalatix Sep 2012 #321
Here's the part ProSense Sep 2012 #326
I KNOW what he said, and how he said it. bvar22 Sep 2012 #338
That's absolutely correct. He ridiculed her for supporting the Mandate. And rightly. nt Poll_Blind Sep 2012 #333
Right wing bullshit from the wsj and a jury voted 5-1 keep it. Warren Stupidity Sep 2012 #309
This message was self-deleted by its author AnotherMcIntosh Sep 2012 #322
He has won on one point. I will look for sources in the future that are not the WSJ. Zalatix Sep 2012 #342
Sources don't matter if they are accurate. The content and character of your posts is what matters. rDigital Oct 2012 #372
Nobody cares about your "warnings". MjolnirTime Sep 2012 #314
Big whoop, you don't HAVE TO CARE!!! The consequences will happen regardless. Zalatix Sep 2012 #318
Yes, ProSense Sep 2012 #330
Denial is sometimes a comforting thing. I won't deny you that comfort. Zalatix Sep 2012 #334
Here ProSense Sep 2012 #337
That post, and your statement here about Medicaid is obsolete. bvar22 Sep 2012 #339
Actually, ProSense Sep 2012 #353
You're declaring victory for something that hasn't happened. bvar22 Oct 2012 #362
His imagination is stronger than your reality. Zalatix Oct 2012 #363
My (her) knowledge of the facts is stronger than your guessing. ProSense Oct 2012 #365
There you go again, declaring victory after blowing off all your toes! Zalatix Oct 2012 #368
Wrong ProSense Oct 2012 #364
Do you know what the word "MANDATE" means? bvar22 Oct 2012 #366
Do you know ProSense Oct 2012 #367
Nobody needs the MSM to explain THIS: bvar22 Oct 2012 #369
Not this shit again. Iggo Sep 2012 #315
Here is the problem, stated simply. Savannahmann Sep 2012 #324
Yup. The wolf will hunt an unprotected lamb, it's as simple as that. Zalatix Sep 2012 #329
Left wing concern post from right-wing Murdoch paper. gulliver Sep 2012 #332
Why are you posting WSJ propaganda? Odin2005 Sep 2012 #340
I and others warned that this was coming, too: another panic post. randome Sep 2012 #350
This will just make universal health care more probable. Lint Head Sep 2012 #354
It's no use. 2ndAmForComputers Sep 2012 #357
stop the presses! arely staircase Oct 2012 #371
I for one look forward to your gloating thread Capt. Obvious Oct 2012 #373
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