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In reply to the discussion: Oliver Stone's "documentary" is a farce. [View all]MinM
(2,650 posts)35. X - P = Richard Case Nagell
Some points of contention with the NYTimes critique from the op...
NYTimes - JFK was based on On the Trail of the Assassins, by Jim Garrison, a former Orleans Parish district attorney who, in 1969, unsuccessfully prosecuted Clay Shaw, a New Orleans businessman, for conspiring to kill the president. Kevin Costner played Garrison as an Atticus Finch type fighting an ingrained power structure, though Garrison is dismissed by many mainstream historians as a con man. In researching JFK, Stone also relied on L. Fletcher Prouty, a former Air Force colonel who, before becoming disillusioned with government, was chief of special operations for the Joint Chiefs of Staff during the Kennedy administration. Prouty never actually met Garrison except in Stones film, where he is Donald Sutherlands Colonel X, who lays it all out for the D.A. in the shadow of the Washington Monument how the military deliberately underprotected the president in Dallas, how defense contractors, big oil and bankers conspired with the military to make sure the president died because he didnt intend to go to war in Vietnam. Costner is a kind of stand-in for Stone, soberly shaking his head as X says: Does that sound like a bunch of coincidences to you, Mr. Garrison? Not for one moment.
In advance of the films release, Stone pronounced JFK a history lesson. Prouty, however, who died in 2001, turned out to be extremely problematic. He had many theories in addition to his theories on Kennedy, including that the Joint Chiefs of Staff had foreknowledge of the Jonestown Massacre and that greedy oil barons invented the fiction that oil is made of decomposed fossils. And it was Prouty, Stone said, who turned him on to The Report From Iron Mountain, a 1967 document ostensibly written by a secret panel of military planners. The document is a favorite among conspiracy theorists, who, like Prouty, seem unaware that in 1972 the satirist Leonard Lewin admitted he wrote it. Ive acknowledged when Ive made mistakes, Stone said of the movie now. There were a few mistakes, but nothing that changes the big story.
It has been more than 20 years since Stone made JFK, a film that he now says should be looked at not as history but as a dramatized version of it the spirit of the truth. Its called dramatic license, Stone said about his approach in JFK. ...
In advance of the films release, Stone pronounced JFK a history lesson. Prouty, however, who died in 2001, turned out to be extremely problematic. He had many theories in addition to his theories on Kennedy, including that the Joint Chiefs of Staff had foreknowledge of the Jonestown Massacre and that greedy oil barons invented the fiction that oil is made of decomposed fossils. And it was Prouty, Stone said, who turned him on to The Report From Iron Mountain, a 1967 document ostensibly written by a secret panel of military planners. The document is a favorite among conspiracy theorists, who, like Prouty, seem unaware that in 1972 the satirist Leonard Lewin admitted he wrote it. Ive acknowledged when Ive made mistakes, Stone said of the movie now. There were a few mistakes, but nothing that changes the big story.
It has been more than 20 years since Stone made JFK, a film that he now says should be looked at not as history but as a dramatized version of it the spirit of the truth. Its called dramatic license, Stone said about his approach in JFK. ...
For one thing when Oliver Stone has spoken of "dramatic license" he talks about using composite characters like Donald Sutherland's Colonel X...
Zachary Sklar explains 25-minutes into this real audio clip, and the beginning of this one, that X is a composite character based on Nagell and Prouty. Specifically, an actual conversation that Jim Garrison had with Richard Case Nagell, while the rest of the character is fleshed out in the person of L. Fletcher Prouty.
So some of the more contentious comments in this scene actually came from Richard Case Nagell...
Of course that's an inconvenient detail the NYTimes does not deal with. Since they are eager to ascribe some type of foreknowledge to Prouty in other areas. They would rather keep people in the dark about the actual foreknowledge that Richard Case Nagell demonstrated with regard to the plot to kill Kennedy.
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Well, O.K. (I read the whole link.)But it was priceless when STONE dropped his bomb on Morning Scab
UTUSN
Nov 2012
#4
It's loathsome on a liberal website that anyone would DARE judge a move without seeing it first.
KittyWampus
Nov 2012
#39
last movie I saw from stone was platoon. Won't waste time with his vision of things anymore
still_one
Nov 2012
#27
Stone does the nation a service by bringing up the things the rightwing prefers we move on from.
Octafish
Nov 2012
#18
To me JFK was more about the fascination with the event and all the conspiracy theories
CBGLuthier
Nov 2012
#19
I think the other poster was asking if you'd seen the documentary you are testifying
Bluenorthwest
Nov 2012
#32
So what? That was before LBJ used the Tonkin Gulf Incident as casus belli for sending in draftees.
Octafish
Nov 2012
#37
I don't care for most of his films, nor for him personally, but this is not valid criticism
Bluenorthwest
Nov 2012
#30
First time I heard that stupid thing talk I fell "back and to the left" on my ass. :-p nt
Guy Whitey Corngood
Nov 2012
#42