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MinM

(2,650 posts)
35. X - P = Richard Case Nagell
Fri Nov 30, 2012, 04:58 PM
Nov 2012

Some points of contention with the NYTimes critique from the op...

NYTimes - “JFK” was based on “On the Trail of the Assassins,” by Jim Garrison, a former Orleans Parish district attorney who, in 1969, unsuccessfully prosecuted Clay Shaw, a New Orleans businessman, for conspiring to kill the president. Kevin Costner played Garrison as an Atticus Finch type fighting an ingrained power structure, though Garrison is dismissed by many mainstream historians as a con man. In researching “JFK,” Stone also relied on L. Fletcher Prouty, a former Air Force colonel who, before becoming disillusioned with government, was chief of special operations for the Joint Chiefs of Staff during the Kennedy administration. Prouty never actually met Garrison except in Stone’s film, where he is Donald Sutherland’s Colonel X, who lays it all out for the D.A. in the shadow of the Washington Monument — how the military deliberately underprotected the president in Dallas, how defense contractors, big oil and bankers conspired with the military to make sure the president died because he didn’t intend to go to war in Vietnam. Costner is a kind of stand-in for Stone, soberly shaking his head as X says: “Does that sound like a bunch of coincidences to you, Mr. Garrison? Not for one moment.”

In advance of the film’s release, Stone pronounced “JFK” “a history lesson.” Prouty, however, who died in 2001, turned out to be extremely problematic. He had many theories in addition to his theories on Kennedy, including that the Joint Chiefs of Staff had foreknowledge of the Jonestown Massacre and that greedy oil barons invented the fiction that oil is made of decomposed fossils. And it was Prouty, Stone said, who turned him on to “The Report From Iron Mountain,” a 1967 document ostensibly written by a secret panel of military planners. The document is a favorite among conspiracy theorists, who, like Prouty, seem unaware that in 1972 the satirist Leonard Lewin admitted he wrote it. “I’ve acknowledged when I’ve made mistakes,” Stone said of the movie now. “There were a few mistakes, but nothing that changes the big story.”

It has been more than 20 years since Stone made “JFK,” a film that he now says should be looked at not as history but as a dramatized version of it — “the spirit of the truth.” “It’s called dramatic license,” Stone said about his approach in “JFK.” ...


For one thing when Oliver Stone has spoken of "dramatic license" he talks about using composite characters like Donald Sutherland's Colonel X...

Zachary Sklar explains 25-minutes into this real audio clip, and the beginning of this one, that X is a composite character based on Nagell and Prouty. Specifically, an actual conversation that Jim Garrison had with Richard Case Nagell, while the rest of the character is fleshed out in the person of L. Fletcher Prouty.

So some of the more contentious comments in this scene actually came from Richard Case Nagell...

Of course that's an inconvenient detail the NYTimes does not deal with. Since they are eager to ascribe some type of foreknowledge to Prouty in other areas. They would rather keep people in the dark about the actual foreknowledge that Richard Case Nagell demonstrated with regard to the plot to kill Kennedy.

link
the thing that ruined "JFK" for me Enrique Nov 2012 #1
"Interesting?" Archae Nov 2012 #3
What is up with this Anti-Semitic meme running around in Hollywood? vaberella Nov 2012 #7
Not just liberals in Hollywood. Archae Nov 2012 #9
The part where he says Johonny Nov 2012 #31
The late Larry Hagman in Nixon (1995) MinM Nov 2012 #12
JFK was an incomprehensible confusing mess bluestateguy Nov 2012 #2
Well, O.K. (I read the whole link.)But it was priceless when STONE dropped his bomb on Morning Scab UTUSN Nov 2012 #4
I agree JFK was make believe. But it is great movie making. applegrove Nov 2012 #5
I also agree oswaldactedalone Nov 2012 #8
As a kid, my brother used to have a book on a jfk conspiracy. I used applegrove Nov 2012 #34
it's a ten-part TV series, not a 'documentary'. HiPointDem Nov 2012 #6
Ok, it's a "documentary" series then. Archae Nov 2012 #10
It's loathsome on a liberal website that anyone would DARE judge a move without seeing it first. KittyWampus Nov 2012 #39
Is there a post where the OP says they haven't seen it? zappaman Nov 2012 #45
i vowed around JFK never to watch a stone movie. pansypoo53219 Nov 2012 #11
last movie I saw from stone was platoon. Won't waste time with his vision of things anymore still_one Nov 2012 #27
Oliver Stone has been a RW whipping boy for a long, long time (since Platoon) JCMach1 Nov 2012 #13
"Sometimes?" Archae Nov 2012 #14
there are some of his movies that aren't JCMach1 Nov 2012 #53
Well, I would have to watch the piece in order to judge it fairly, MadHound Nov 2012 #15
Stone does the nation a service by bringing up the things the rightwing prefers we move on from. Octafish Nov 2012 #18
In other news: water is wet. Lizzie Poppet Nov 2012 #16
Absolutely no cred Berlum Nov 2012 #17
To me JFK was more about the fascination with the event and all the conspiracy theories CBGLuthier Nov 2012 #19
So you've seen it? joeybee12 Nov 2012 #20
Too many to count. Archae Nov 2012 #21
Is that the same Wikipedia famous for CIA revisions? Octafish Nov 2012 #22
Garrison was a fraud zappaman Nov 2012 #24
Garrison was a World War II hero and a guy who devoted his life to Justice. Octafish Nov 2012 #38
So war heroes can't be nuts? zappaman Nov 2012 #46
What? Like the time Eisenhower's CIA asked the Mafia to kill Castro? Octafish Nov 2012 #49
"What? Like the time Eisenhower's CIA asked the Mafia to kill Castro?" zappaman Nov 2012 #50
I think the other poster was asking if you'd seen the documentary you are testifying Bluenorthwest Nov 2012 #32
Yup. nt woo me with science Nov 2012 #43
What is sad is that way too many people view JFK as a documentary zappaman Nov 2012 #23
One Big Thing Oliver Stone got right: JFK was pulling US out of Vietnam. Octafish Nov 2012 #25
Not according to Bobby zappaman Nov 2012 #26
So what? That was before LBJ used the Tonkin Gulf Incident as casus belli for sending in draftees. Octafish Nov 2012 #37
This message was self-deleted by its author woo me with science Nov 2012 #41
I take it you object to the "USA as Empire" angle? Junkdrawer Nov 2012 #28
He did a hatchet job on Harry Truman JPZenger Nov 2012 #29
I don't care for most of his films, nor for him personally, but this is not valid criticism Bluenorthwest Nov 2012 #30
I watched 10 minutes of Stone's history show. Archae Nov 2012 #48
So, does this mean "Scarface" is fiction? LTR Nov 2012 #33
X - P = Richard Case Nagell MinM Nov 2012 #35
He's fantastic and I'll be watching this LittleBlue Nov 2012 #36
The worst part of that movie Capt. Obvious Nov 2012 #40
First time I heard that stupid thing talk I fell "back and to the left" on my ass. :-p nt Guy Whitey Corngood Nov 2012 #42
onto the grassy knoll? Capt. Obvious Nov 2012 #44
A grassy Knoll in the Dagobah System. nt Guy Whitey Corngood Nov 2012 #47
These are not the magic bullets you're looking for Capt. Obvious Nov 2012 #51
But his "W." had me laughing until I cried rock Nov 2012 #52
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