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KharmaTrain

(31,706 posts)

96. This Walks Into A Far Bigger Issue Americans Don't Want To Go Near...

Thu Feb 14, 2013, 03:35 PM

Feb 2013

...Mental health. No question he was a very disturbed person that let his anger build over a long time. Unfortunately we see this profile in many of the mass murders who, in our media-fixated age, see lashing out as a mean to "send a message". Usually that message is that there were red flags in their past that people tried avoiding dealing with and allowed the anger inside to grow. Signs of depression is more likely to be viewed as a weakness rather than something that should be treated. More important, those suffering from mental anguish are made to feel weak or inadequate and shy away from admitting a problem and seeking help.

As is the case with much of what we deal with...there's no one thing that leads to these kind of tragedies. There is a real need in this country to stop demonizing mental illness...maybe more troubled people would then feel its "safe" to come out and find other remedies for their frustrations rather than "second ammendment" remedies...

Cheers...

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This message was self-deleted by its author [View all] WilliamPitt Feb 2013 OP

K&R. JDPriestly Feb 2013 #1

yes. simple enough. nt seabeyond Feb 2013 #2

k&r HappyMe Feb 2013 #3

What? You mean the 'gubberment conspiracy' to take him out isn't the extent of the story? onehandle Feb 2013 #4

Gubberment conspiracy? 2pooped2pop Feb 2013 #14

You are hitching your cart to the wrong horse, hoss BlueStreak Feb 2013 #58

yes, we should continue to ignore them 2pooped2pop Feb 2013 #60

No. You address the real issues head on and leave this other nonsense alone. BlueStreak Feb 2013 #168

please don't tell me what I can and cannot address n/t 2pooped2pop Feb 2013 #196

Dorner killed policeman and the children of policeman... Agnosticsherbet Feb 2013 #5

Neither Ned Kelley, Billy the Kid, nor Bonnie and Clyde ever ambushed and murdered ... 11 Bravo Feb 2013 #186

Different times, different strokes. Agnosticsherbet Feb 2013 #192

apparently IOKIYNTS hfojvt Feb 2013 #6

I thought NTS was an abbreviation for 'nuts' there, for a second...nt MADem Feb 2013 #17

Missing the point completely... Taverner Feb 2013 #7

purposely 2pooped2pop Feb 2013 #10

The "they" that shot up the vehicles is NOT the "they" that surrounded the cabin. MADem Feb 2013 #23

there were several jurisdictions involved in that final episode.. frylock Feb 2013 #28

The "they" that were running the show were the San Bernadino County Sheriff's Department. MADem Feb 2013 #35

regardless of who had operational control.. frylock Feb 2013 #113

Yes, and they had an APV out there that was tearing down the walls of the cabin, too. MADem Feb 2013 #114

that is indeed true.. frylock Feb 2013 #115

yes, they probably only have one bad apple in their 2pooped2pop Feb 2013 #40

The issue isn't bad apples--the issue is calling every law enforcement MADem Feb 2013 #73

ya know what? 2pooped2pop Feb 2013 #76

I like to discuss issues and current events, but I don't take things personally. MADem Feb 2013 #98

Do you realize those that "shot up the vehicles" were not the same departments either??????????????? George II Feb 2013 #57

DUH, no, that's not true--LAPD did shoot up the vehicle in Torrance. MADem Feb 2013 #68

Both shootings were IN Torrance, the first by LAPD, the second by Torrance PD..... George II Feb 2013 #134

We'll just have to split the difference, then. MADem Feb 2013 #136

In this case, three wrongs (think about it!) George II Feb 2013 #187

and? robinlynne Feb 2013 #70

well put. Thank-you. robinlynne Feb 2013 #69

or, one may feel that you are missing a very glaring point. the victims.... nt seabeyond Feb 2013 #12

the victims of police departments across the country or just those 2pooped2pop Feb 2013 #41

ah. so the victims of doner matter not? not true victim? not as much victim? seabeyond Feb 2013 #45

your problem (Dorner) is dead 2pooped2pop Feb 2013 #50

I think you take it wrong. robinlynne Feb 2013 #71

ya know what? 2pooped2pop Feb 2013 #72

i can appreciate your post. seabeyond Feb 2013 #80

No, the ones about whom you've shown zero concern. As has most of the site. nt geek tragedy Feb 2013 #82

here cali Feb 2013 #8

but your facts get in the way of my pointless self conceived indignation! Johonny Feb 2013 #15

lol. thanks for not ignoring my post, J. cali Feb 2013 #19

RIP the four marions ghost Feb 2013 #9

Only Doner cartach Feb 2013 #84

Thanks for that link, marions ghost.. Cha Feb 2013 #129

I am sad for everybody injured by this tragedy magical thyme Feb 2013 #11

Well Said! vankuria Feb 2013 #30

Careful there - you are supposed to feel only hatred for Dorner. kestrel91316 Feb 2013 #33

There is are emotions between hatred nobodyspecial Feb 2013 #49

K&R. Chorophyll Feb 2013 #13

K&R rynestonecowboy Feb 2013 #34

Yes, some of whom left spouses and young children. It's rather unfortunate that a very small crew MADem Feb 2013 #16

everyone is always stupid when they don't agree with you? 2pooped2pop Feb 2013 #46

Oh, please. MADem Feb 2013 #79

"Speaking Power To The Man..." KharmaTrain Feb 2013 #53

There are inconvenient truths to his situation, too, that people would rather not acknowledge. MADem Feb 2013 #90

This Walks Into A Far Bigger Issue Americans Don't Want To Go Near... KharmaTrain Feb 2013 #96

Absolutely. People are afraid of the topic, and afraid of the sufferers, too. MADem Feb 2013 #101

Thank You For Sharing... KharmaTrain Feb 2013 #112

One from me dkf Feb 2013 #18

I'm confused. Is your thread for them, or for Dorner? Glassunion Feb 2013 #20

My sympathy for Mr Dorner ends at the two uninvolved people he murdered. That said .... marble falls Feb 2013 #21

Sadly, I think what gets lost in situations like this Blue_Roses Feb 2013 #22

Exactly. Crickets all around on that. cliffordu Feb 2013 #24

What is more messed up is the outrage on Dorner's behalf, not for Monica Quan or Keith Lawrence. dkf Feb 2013 #25

Most people are outraged, not on dorner's "behalf", but at the inappropriate actions of police. kestrel91316 Feb 2013 #32

And Dorner murdering Quan and Lawrence in cold blood was an appropriate action? dbackjon Feb 2013 #42

That is where you get it all wrong. There is not ONE DUer who thinks Dorner's murders were ok. robinlynne Feb 2013 #74

How upset are you that Monica Quan is dead? dkf Feb 2013 #51

This message was self-deleted by its author devilgrrl Feb 2013 #95

snap frylock Feb 2013 #124

Trayvon's death was a tragedy and obviously not his fault. dkf Feb 2013 #158

His manifesto fails my smell test. He rants on about how he wants to kill mean lesbian bosses and MADem Feb 2013 #66

This message was self-deleted by its author devilgrrl Feb 2013 #94

Where are the threads you posted for them? Hatchling Feb 2013 #26

ahhh, u must have missed all the "he killed two beautiful young people" 2pooped2pop Feb 2013 #27

search function broken for you, Will? frylock Feb 2013 #29

They aren't controversial but he is? People like to talk about controversy. It's human nature. kestrel91316 Feb 2013 #31

Where was the due process for Monica Quan and Keith Lawrence? Sedona Feb 2013 #36

By that logic, we should never have trials for murder. While the courts are flawed, lynch mobs have yurbud Feb 2013 #38

That makes zero sense as a reply dbackjon Feb 2013 #43

I am not implying that at all, but "due process" like the Geneva Convention is for people we don't yurbud Feb 2013 #54

What would you have suggested they do? dbackjon Feb 2013 #56

you seem not to have read my reply. The cops may not have had other options yurbud Feb 2013 #61

I fully understand due process dbackjon Feb 2013 #63

I was arguing with your comment about the victims which implied that with that crime, yurbud Feb 2013 #133

That is not what I said dbackjon Feb 2013 #138

Well, if he was violently opposed to engaging in due process, not their geek tragedy Feb 2013 #81

Dorner was holed up in a house shooting at cops with a assault rifle Sedona Feb 2013 #52

I didn't say that, I was just responding to the "due process" comment yurbud Feb 2013 #179

There should be more threads for Dorner's victims meanit Feb 2013 #37

that's a good summary. yurbud Feb 2013 #39

people are giving the domestic equivalent of the argument for torture and drone executions yurbud Feb 2013 #44

Indeed. If this were a simple event of a nutcase killing innocents and, in the end, being chased Nay Feb 2013 #59

What about the inflexible mob that is unwilling to admit that Dorner had a chance to surrender dbackjon Feb 2013 #48

Of course Dorner could have surrendered meanit Feb 2013 #83

If he wasn't going to surrender dbackjon Feb 2013 #141

What would I have suggested the police do? meanit Feb 2013 #166

Maybe we should let an investigation happen first dbackjon Feb 2013 #172

Agreed meanit Feb 2013 #177

Or it's people who insist on stating that the police tried and actually geek tragedy Feb 2013 #88

Dorner is gone. What do you care if people question the cop's intentions? meanit Feb 2013 #110

For one, you have no evidence he burned to death as opposed to geek tragedy Feb 2013 #117

You have no more evidence than anybody else, either. meanit Feb 2013 #154

indeed frylock Feb 2013 #116

You could have started a thread for them instead of asking where they were. NCTraveler Feb 2013 #47

I think Will just did Katie Feb 2013 #67

See what you started Will? Hekate Feb 2013 #55

55 posts in, and that's your takeaway?! frylock Feb 2013 #128

Hey, would you let me know when the imminent answer arrives? DisgustipatedinCA Feb 2013 #176

i must have those people on ignore, because i'm not seeing those posts either frylock Feb 2013 #184

Innocent victims all rustydog Feb 2013 #62

This is one unique story. A perfect storm if you will. SleeplessinSoCal Feb 2013 #64

The guy was selfish. He wasn't trying to lead a cause.... Spitfire of ATJ Feb 2013 #65

It's hard to get to empathy for Dorner's victims until ciking724 Feb 2013 #75

So, your stance is that Dorner is the real victim, and until his good name is cleared geek tragedy Feb 2013 #85

My stance is exactly as stated, it is difficult for those who identify ciking724 Feb 2013 #119

You spoke as one who identifies with Dorner. geek tragedy Feb 2013 #121

I disagree. Decent people will be concerned about investigating this case and bringing those ciking724 Feb 2013 #130

I'll blame the guy who shot them. Novel idea. geek tragedy Feb 2013 #132

Yup dbackjon Feb 2013 #147

Post removed Post removed Feb 2013 #153

Okay, you're just a troll. geek tragedy Feb 2013 #157

Not a troll; just sharing the truth. Have a nice day! ciking724 Feb 2013 #159

If it wasn't against the TOS to call you a troll, I'd call you a troll. nt Dreamer Tatum Feb 2013 #169

Um, you still just called them a troll.. which is against TOS MessiahRp Feb 2013 #195

Disgusting attitude dbackjon Feb 2013 #144

Ruh roh, we're agreeing a lot these days. geek tragedy Feb 2013 #148

LOL - I noticed that ;) dbackjon Feb 2013 #151

This man was not insane, and you know that. He WAS NOT a serial murderer, or he ciking724 Feb 2013 #167

Post removed Post removed Feb 2013 #171

Who says anything about giving LAPD a pass? dbackjon Feb 2013 #173

Oh, what absolute RUBBISH. sibelian Feb 2013 #178

How dare you call a DUer evil while excusing a serial killer. Yes, he was a serial killer. DevonRex Feb 2013 #181

I disagree. hrmjustin Feb 2013 #185

Your remarks do not account for a couple of facts. MADem Feb 2013 #111

People who identify with a serial killer generally are sociopaths to begin with. geek tragedy Feb 2013 #123

My understanding is that the LAPD ciking724 Feb 2013 #125

How on earth does that affect your ability to feel empathy geek tragedy Feb 2013 #126

For many people, the injustice to Dorner and the victims he spoke up for, ciking724 Feb 2013 #145

Speak for yourself please. geek tragedy Feb 2013 #146

That attitude is fucking sick. Zoeisright Feb 2013 #193

He told HIS version of what he believed happened dbackjon Feb 2013 #152

I think in our heart of hearts, we all know he told the truth. ciking724 Feb 2013 #155

So you are saying that someone that does not believe Dorner 100% is EVIL? dbackjon Feb 2013 #156

Dude, this is a troll. A rightwinger talking like his fantasy of what geek tragedy Feb 2013 #161

Yet his posts are cleared by the jury... dbackjon Feb 2013 #162

He'll fall off the high wire eventually. nt geek tragedy Feb 2013 #164

He had failed of selection TWICE. That's why he lost his clearance. MADem Feb 2013 #175

these argument about dorner are really pushing on the intellectually dishonest territory La Lioness Priyanka Feb 2013 #77

Had he been a Neo-Nazi white guy and his victims African-American, I can geek tragedy Feb 2013 #87

yes, because there is historical context there. not because of nothing. La Lioness Priyanka Feb 2013 #92

Historical context is irrelevant to the blameworthiness of a man who murders geek tragedy Feb 2013 #93

actually the example you provided does matter La Lioness Priyanka Feb 2013 #97

Not really. Monica Quan's family is grieving regardless. geek tragedy Feb 2013 #99

yes, and no one is saying that she was not a victim or that her death was not sad La Lioness Priyanka Feb 2013 #100

At least one person is: geek tragedy Feb 2013 #103

one person w. 65 posts on du. my original argument that people are really stretching La Lioness Priyanka Feb 2013 #105

Hmmm, how many people were denouncing the police for taking him out geek tragedy Feb 2013 #107

again, we can't control individual mad men we however have a responsibility to control La Lioness Priyanka Feb 2013 #109

Problem is, people are claiming abuse where there's no evidence geek tragedy Feb 2013 #118

This message was self-deleted by its author geek tragedy Feb 2013 #102

one du'er with 65 posts, is your best example of how du'ers dont think about the victim. La Lioness Priyanka Feb 2013 #104

Those who refer to her death as "retributive justice' and those who say geek tragedy Feb 2013 #106

this is because we can't stop individual people but the state acts at our behest La Lioness Priyanka Feb 2013 #108

But the false accusation that Dorner was murdered indicates more than geek tragedy Feb 2013 #120

Yes, Lioness, you are exactly correct. I expect DUers to be better at critical thinking, and I Nay Feb 2013 #91

The main point of intellectual dishonesty is the claim that the police use of the tear geek tragedy Feb 2013 #127

no no no. anything short of "Burn the mutherfucker" is tacit approval.. frylock Feb 2013 #131

When people make shit up about how his rights were violated, that's a tacit geek tragedy Feb 2013 #135

yeah i agree. also we dont exert control over random civilian actions (even if they are as heinous La Lioness Priyanka Feb 2013 #174

+1 nt Bonobo Feb 2013 #182

Depends. Do I agree with their politics? Prism Feb 2013 #78

Yup. In a nutshell. nt Chorophyll Feb 2013 #86

Yep. one_voice Feb 2013 #190

Start them. Gore1FL Feb 2013 #89

The reason for the difference is that DU is largely a place for discussing public affairs. Jim Lane Feb 2013 #122

The question, though, is whether this debate would be going on under the exact geek tragedy Feb 2013 #139

I, for one, believe in due process for all -- even Anders Breivik. Jim Lane Feb 2013 #160

Here's an example of what I was talking about. geek tragedy Feb 2013 #163

You put it best. yurbud Feb 2013 #142

I wondered that. Especially DevonRex Feb 2013 #137

Too many people are trying to "understand" Dorner and intellectualized gibberish defenses of him bluestateguy Feb 2013 #140

that's what right wing pundits said after 9/11, and the lack of public analysis of motives yurbud Feb 2013 #150

K/R thank you for your post sasha031 Feb 2013 #143

The latest victim was Jeremiah MacKay Cha Feb 2013 #149

You mean the 'alleged victim' right? geek tragedy Feb 2013 #165

You have made your contempt for the concept of due process pretty clear. nt Bonobo Feb 2013 #183

Thank you. I've wondered the same thing - lynne Feb 2013 #170

I agree completely. Ilsa Feb 2013 #180

This is the silliest response I have read Android3.14 Feb 2013 #188

No idea Blecht Feb 2013 #189

I thought you were actually paid to write. DisgustipatedinCA Feb 2013 #191

I think it's a tragedy when anyone dies by violence Prophet 451 Feb 2013 #194