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happyslug

(14,779 posts)
121. I did simplify the history
Fri Jun 7, 2013, 06:09 PM
Jun 2013

While the US Supreme Court and the whole court system went through a review of the Common Law from about 1860 to the 1930s, various justification were used for the change. This include the concept of "Substantial Due Process", this included that the States could NOT interfere with the Rights of its citizens for such restrictions (including Maximum hours one can work, minimum wages and other working conditions) violated the right to Due Process of people.

As a whole, the concept of Substantial Due Process was bad, anti-labor, anti- poor, Anti-Regulation etc but from it the Supreme Court developed our whole concept of that the Bill of Rights apply not only to the Federal Government by to the States. i.e. For a State to interfere with a person's freedom of speech would violate that person's right to due process of the law and thus violates the 14th amendment of the US Constitution that forbids the States from denying anyone Due Process. Technically the Due Process clause was to make sure all Americas could NOT be railroaded in a court of law, but the Court expanded it to include situations outside the court room. Freedom of Religion, Freedom of Speech, Freedom of Assembly only apply to the States through the Due Process Clause of the US Constitution.

While the Federal Courts was expanding Due Process to include business transactions (and some anti-Labor rulings) the State Courts were re-writing the Common Law to be more pro-business and pro-industry. While some of the old Common Law Rules no longer made sense in the late 1800s, the whole changes adopted were often adopted to help business as oppose to regular citizens. In many ways when you read about people complaining today about the "Activist" Court making law, it is often the Court accepting the fact that the Changes made between 1860 and the 1930s were BAD and the pre-1800 Common Law Rule should be reinstated for it is a workable rule.

Please note I used the term 1800, for English Courts started to change the Common Law Rules about 1800, the American courts took a little longer, thus for most America law the change started about 1860. This is all Judge made Law.

At the same time, State Legislatures started to rewrite the laws at the same time. One of the reason for the confusion as to the Common Law was different States adopted changes in the Common Law at different times and to different degrees. The Courts retain a lot of old common law, but then change those laws that the Courts found no longer fitted the situation in the late 1800s. The State Legislature also made changes, often under the same pressure from the business and industry communities.

Thus these three movements, the expansion of Federal Law under the concept of Substantial Due Process, the State Courts adopting rules that were more pro-business and the State Legislature also making changes, sometime to favor business, sometimes to restrict business were all occurring at the same time and interacting with each other.

At the same time (About 1900) the Progressive movement started in America, mostly as a reaction to the above pro-business changes in the law. The progressives wanted to impose restrictions on business, to protect most people actually living in America. Labor unions started, mostly as joint-help associations (i.e. we join together and if one of us dies, the rest take care of the deceased wife and children, these groups later became the nucleus for most unions in the US and why by 1900 Industry was making a overt attack on such groups).

I am just pointing out my comments were a simplification I did for this discussion. The actual changes in the law are more complex then I made it sound in my threads. Just a warning to do your own double checking of what I wrote so if someone brings it up you are NOT caught using what they consider "Wrong" even through all it is is a simplification for purpose of a debate.

Side note: One such self help group that I mentioned above was (and still is) the Hibernians.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ancient_Order_of_Hibernians

When the Molly McGuires trials started in the 1870s, it was clear the Coal bosses wanted to drive the Hiberians out of the Coal Fields. If you were NOT tied in with the Hibernians and charged, the charges were dismissed, but if you were you were hanged. It is debated to this day if the Molly McGuires actually existed, or was an invention by the coal operators to destroy the Hibernians for out of the Hibernians came all of the efforts to unionize the coal mines. Some people concede that the Molly McGuires did not exist, but the coal bosses believe they did and that was why the trials took place. The Actual murders the accused were charged with happened, but it is unlikely it was anything more then personal fight (and probably with someone else, not charged for the investigators wanted to CHARGE the people they did NOT anyone NOT tied in with the Hibernians).


Side Note: One of the characteristic of many small towns in the US, are civil war cannons located in their town squares. Why are there so such cannons in large cities? Most were removed after Strikers used them during the 1877 General Strike (One was brought to bare on troops in Pittsburgh) and another was used by Strikers in the 1892 Homestead Strike. Due to these actions, the Cannons were removed to Civil War Battlefields (Unlike modern cannons, the old muzzle loading cannons of the Civil War period could be used even today, the chance of them exploding is much higher then in the 1860s, but structurally they are so simple, all you need a black powder to use them even today).

More on the Molly McGuires (I lean to the Molly Maguires never existing in the US except in the mind of the coal mine owners, but others have other opinions).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Molly_Maguires

Recommendations

0 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):

k/r marmar Jun 2013 #1
public health??? Niceguy1 Jun 2013 #2
you could throw every other person in prison for that 'crime'. nt xchrom Jun 2013 #4
maybe they could get rehab in prison... Niceguy1 Jun 2013 #6
Your optimism about our penal system theaocp Jun 2013 #14
not morals.... public health Niceguy1 Jun 2013 #15
I'll assume you're on the side of public health theaocp Jun 2013 #17
regulation Niceguy1 Jun 2013 #19
Criminalization... TommyCelt Jun 2013 #22
decriminization Niceguy1 Jun 2013 #25
Explain Nevada then. It has a well regulated prostitution business, the girls are safe from pimps Katashi_itto Jun 2013 #45
{crickets} Gidney N Cloyd Jun 2013 #69
Thanks! Katashi_itto Jun 2013 #70
Nevada is one huge Government bombing range happyslug Jun 2013 #73
I would prefer this regulation fall under Health and Humane services.... midnight Jun 2013 #78
We could create a Happiness Services Dept Katashi_itto Jun 2013 #101
I think that could work.... midnight Jun 2013 #113
Nice handle Fumesucker Jun 2013 #57
LOL! Spot on blueamy66 Jun 2013 #63
what makes you assume someone needs rehab because they are a prostitute? arely staircase Jun 2013 #67
HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!! backscatter712 Jun 2013 #120
So are you going to toss diesel bus engine manufacturers in jail too? marmar Jun 2013 #5
Bingo!!!!! orpupilofnature57 Jun 2013 #9
the diesel bus engine Niceguy1 Jun 2013 #11
How many moons are on your planet ? orpupilofnature57 Jun 2013 #13
all diesel engines Niceguy1 Jun 2013 #18
"All" is kinda the opposite of "case by case". Just sayin'. ret5hd Jun 2013 #27
ot, Niceguy1 Jun 2013 #31
What a coincidence! So are the legal prostitutes in Nevada! LadyHawkAZ Jun 2013 #80
The walking Pestles are rarely tested, or punished . orpupilofnature57 Jun 2013 #12
I think your priorities are slightly peculiar. sibelian Jun 2013 #21
indeed. nt xchrom Jun 2013 #23
prostitution happens anyway, it would be better for public health if it was regulated and legal. bowens43 Jun 2013 #30
Actually - it's more of a health risk being illegal. ehrnst Jun 2013 #34
Other 1st world countries do this. dotymed Jun 2013 #46
It would also be easier to catch those exploiting minors in to this business too... cascadiance Jun 2013 #65
Ah and the people hanging out in meet markets aren't? pipoman Jun 2013 #47
then promiscuity is the problem, not prostitution. unblock Jun 2013 #48
Ah yes, that strategy works so well in the War on Drugs. backscatter712 Jun 2013 #50
So you favor locking up anyone who's sexually promiscuous or geek tragedy Jun 2013 #55
So you just completely ignored the first paragraph of the post:? Hissyspit Jun 2013 #76
Public health would be served by regulating the trade, not criminalizing it. Comrade Grumpy Jun 2013 #77
god. people like you really make me vomity. nt La Lioness Priyanka Jun 2013 #114
A rare coalescing of common sense. Nt geek tragedy Jun 2013 #3
taxes newmember Jun 2013 #7
It's easy orpupilofnature57 Jun 2013 #8
Generally it is a great way to generate cash revenue to supplement police income. Warren Stupidity Jun 2013 #10
What are you talking about? Police are paid for by TRAFFIC Tickets and taxes NOT other fines happyslug Jun 2013 #71
The vice squad in most cities has a long and sordid history of abject corruption. Warren Stupidity Jun 2013 #74
So most Vice Squads are "Captured Regulatory Agencies" what else is new? happyslug Jun 2013 #97
Huh? Warren Stupidity Jun 2013 #104
If you understood REALITY is not legal technicalities you would understood what I said. happyslug Jun 2013 #105
Ok. Obviously our realities are fairly different. Warren Stupidity Jun 2013 #109
Look at the bigger picture. LadyHawkAZ Jun 2013 #83
But busting prositutes is NOT high on anyone's willingness to pay taxes for. happyslug Jun 2013 #93
You think not? LadyHawkAZ Jun 2013 #99
Or I just talk to actual POLICE OFFICERS about this. happyslug Jun 2013 #107
What city, please? And what streets? LadyHawkAZ Jun 2013 #112
as useless as the war on drugs. KG Jun 2013 #16
Pretty much. I would legalize both. Jennicut Jun 2013 #54
George Carlin asks a valid question... TommyCelt Jun 2013 #20
Why is blackmail illegal MattBaggins Jun 2013 #24
Selling is legal. Donating organs is legal. geek tragedy Jun 2013 #26
Seriously? You equate organ donation with having sex? LOL!!! bowens43 Jun 2013 #29
You equate what prostitutes endure on a daily geek tragedy Jun 2013 #33
Prostitution leads to drug addiction? Jeff In Milwaukee Jun 2013 #36
Sucking the dicks of 25 low lives per day geek tragedy Jun 2013 #43
Your username is apt. sibelian Jun 2013 #49
And you know this....how? (nt) Jeff In Milwaukee Jun 2013 #87
My wife works with women who have been trafficked. geek tragedy Jun 2013 #88
I can imagine a lot... Jeff In Milwaukee Jun 2013 #89
When you've had women sobbing in your office for hours, maybe then geek tragedy Jun 2013 #90
He's talking about trafficking LadyHawkAZ Jun 2013 #91
ONLY prostitution...? TommyCelt Jun 2013 #41
your claim that bad sex can lead to PTSD geek tragedy Jun 2013 #53
Credibility? TommyCelt Jun 2013 #56
It is completely insane to make it a crime to get paid for doing what it is legal to do for free... bowens43 Jun 2013 #28
Legalizig gambling caused a similar stir and now it's legal almost everywhere. xtraxritical Jun 2013 #59
"It is completely insane..." panader0 Jun 2013 #61
I'd say madokie Jun 2013 #32
It appears you are already full of truth, bother. MindPilot Jun 2013 #75
Because that would put the power and money in the hands of the 'sluts' ehrnst Jun 2013 #35
To keep them quiet ? eppur_se_muova Jun 2013 #37
Why?.,. Puritans.. Upton Jun 2013 #38
The problem is how do you regulate prositution? happyslug Jun 2013 #62
Several flaws in this jeff47 Jun 2013 #66
As I mentioned in an Earlier post, UK and Europe did not go crazy over freedom of Contract happyslug Jun 2013 #92
You went through a very long post to continue to ignore current reality. jeff47 Jun 2013 #100
I did address those points, you just did not like my responses happyslug Jun 2013 #106
No, you just like wandering off. jeff47 Jun 2013 #115
happyslug, thanks. Laelth Jun 2013 #118
I did simplify the history happyslug Jun 2013 #121
Bottom Line Scalded Nun Jun 2013 #39
You "guarantee" whatever you want to feel good about yourself. sibelian Jun 2013 #52
But if you hire an "actress" tomtharp Jun 2013 #40
There you go... Thor_MN Jun 2013 #44
This message was self-deleted by its author Inkfreak Jun 2013 #103
so society can continue to believe that it's morally self righteous. nt Javaman Jun 2013 #42
Because police don't want blow-offs from Johns Capt. Obvious Jun 2013 #51
Capt. Obvious once again demonstrates a firm grasp of the obvious Fumesucker Jun 2013 #58
We shouldn't ismnotwasm Jun 2013 #60
Why? sibelian Jun 2013 #68
To reduce the frequency of prostitution. geek tragedy Jun 2013 #94
There is no "exploitation" in a situation in which both parties consent. nt. sibelian Jun 2013 #116
Yeah, just ask the garment workers of Bangladesh, nt geek tragedy Jun 2013 #117
Because that is the answer in certain feminist circles Major Nikon Jun 2013 #110
To perpetuate the idea that sex is weird and creepy and wrong, sibelian Jun 2013 #64
Yes, thank you. PDJane Jun 2013 #79
Also LadyHawkAZ Jun 2013 #81
Yes, that too. nt sibelian Jun 2013 #82
Most congressmen are prostitutes too. They fuck us for money. n/t L0oniX Jun 2013 #72
Agreed. Make it a fine if you want it outlawed LittleBlue Jun 2013 #84
To get them off the streets, obviously. Flying Squirrel Jun 2013 #85
I thought prostitution was a misdemeanor if not around schools or churches. craigmatic Jun 2013 #86
That's what I thought too LeftInTX Jun 2013 #98
so they can get some rest? yurbud Jun 2013 #95
so the prison guards won't have to drive so far after their shifts? yurbud Jun 2013 #96
It's not the question that should be asked Scootaloo Jun 2013 #102
A mix of being a nation of puritanical assholes, being a nation of greedy fucks who like TheKentuckian Jun 2013 #108
It wasn't always so! sfpcjock Jun 2013 #111
A frightfully bad idea. caseymoz Jun 2013 #119
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