General Discussion

cali

(114,904 posts) Wed Jun 12, 2013, 02:10 PM Jun 2013

112

Hero or devil's spawn, I don't give a shit. It's massive expansion of surveillance [View all]

and all it entails that concerns me. I'm not going to get caught up in the personalities of this when it's not what's important. Certain people at DU are working their tails off to deflect from the issue and make it all about Snowden.

It is not.

123 replies

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Highlight:

Hero or devil's spawn, I don't give a shit. It's massive expansion of surveillance [View all] cali Jun 2013 OP

And I don't give a shit how legal and constitutional it is. MindPilot Jun 2013 #1

Quite well said. DissidentVoice Jun 2013 #64

Thank you! MindPilot Jun 2013 #70

But I guess committing the crime of treason doesn't matter to you VanillaRhapsody Jun 2013 #76

Tssk.. ForeignandDomestic Jun 2013 #85

Did you consider Daniel Ellsberg to be a traitor? lark Jun 2013 #108

I am rtracey Jun 2013 #110

"I'm not a criminal"... ljm2002 Jun 2013 #111

I am not OK with this lark Jun 2013 #122

Don't have anything to hide, eh? - nt HardTimes99 Jun 2013 #123

Do you consider THIS guy to be a Daniel Ellsberg? VanillaRhapsody Jun 2013 #120

Aren't you jumping to conclusions without all the real facts? avebury Jun 2013 #119

I can guarantee you he signed non-disclosure... VanillaRhapsody Jun 2013 #121

Oh, it's going to be mostly about Snowden over the next few MineralMan Jun 2013 #2

It hasn't been mostly about him for the past few days and I don't think cali Jun 2013 #4

No, of course you're not the only person. MineralMan Jun 2013 #8

This message was self-deleted by its author Junkdrawer Jun 2013 #9

If the Establishment has its way. They'll have to start doing better with their spin... reformist2 Jun 2013 #6

Has anyone explained how he got the FISC docs? Junkdrawer Jun 2013 #7

Nope. Clearly, they were briefing documents. MineralMan Jun 2013 #12

Some other important questions: Maedhros Jun 2013 #59

Simple answers.... paleotn Jun 2013 #66

Yes, it's all about the individual personalities, and has nothing to do with the institutions... YoungDemCA Jun 2013 #67

It took Snowden to get Obama to talk about debating the issue. Tierra_y_Libertad Jun 2013 #3

It hasn't been debated because it's all legal Life Long Dem Jun 2013 #31

"all legal"? Famous last words. JDPriestly Jun 2013 #48

The law is an ass? Enthusiast Jun 2013 #86

You might want to give the link below a listen. snappyturtle Jun 2013 #50

Merkley seems to skip over this case law Life Long Dem Jun 2013 #58

Then we need a full and transparent investigation Maedhros Jun 2013 #62

+1 Life Long Dem Jun 2013 #65

I do not give the phone company the right to hand over my number to NSA. snappyturtle Jun 2013 #71

Part of it is so they will have the numbers later on Life Long Dem Jun 2013 #72

So what does the NSA do after 5 years? Start all over again? snappyturtle Jun 2013 #74

No reason for Snowden to expose all this like he did Life Long Dem Jun 2013 #75

I'm going to be very honest. I have a greater fear of the misuse of snappyturtle Jun 2013 #81

Now that the White House has confirmed the program Maedhros Jun 2013 #84

One point that people seem to be missing... ljm2002 Jun 2013 #113

Dots in a box Life Long Dem Jun 2013 #114

"just numbers with no names attached to them"... ljm2002 Jun 2013 #116

We all know this Life Long Dem Jun 2013 #117

DiFi is one of the least trustworthy people on this issue, IMO... ljm2002 Jun 2013 #118

We are not talking about pen registers when e-mails and other internet data is held. SlimJimmy Jun 2013 #101

If it was all legal, no one would have lied to Congress under oath and denied such spying. AnotherMcIntosh Jun 2013 #60

I don't see Clapper as commiting perjury Life Long Dem Jun 2013 #63

It is a felony to mislead Congress. Answering in the "least untruthful manner" is still untruthful. AnotherMcIntosh Jun 2013 #80

Good luck collecting a guilty verdict on this Life Long Dem Jun 2013 #82

I don't have to collect a guilty verdict on this. AnotherMcIntosh Jun 2013 #83

Misunderstood? I don't see that in this exchange. He outright lied about what he knew. SlimJimmy Jun 2013 #102

I don't believe Clapper "knowingly" made a false statement Life Long Dem Jun 2013 #104

He told a lie, an obvious one. That he might wiggle out of a perjury charge SlimJimmy Jun 2013 #105

On what basis are you declaring the data as "legal"? You dont even know what they are doing rhett o rick Jun 2013 #92

Just because I point out something is legal, Life Long Dem Jun 2013 #96

+1000. premium Jun 2013 #5

derp geek tragedy Jun 2013 #10

Which judging by your posts Aerows Jun 2013 #16

Which posts are those? nt geek tragedy Jun 2013 #18

Every one you've made on the subject Aerows Jun 2013 #21

Pull the ones up where I called him a 'traitor' before the revelations of today. geek tragedy Jun 2013 #22

Now we are qualifying our posts beforehand? Aerows Jun 2013 #24

No, I'm stating as a fact you've been busted making shit up, and now you're refusing geek tragedy Jun 2013 #26

Uh, no, Aerows Jun 2013 #28

you said you would "gladly provide links" geek tragedy Jun 2013 #29

Here you go Aerows Jun 2013 #32

the derp is strong with you geek tragedy Jun 2013 #35

Oh well Aerows Jun 2013 #38

peace, nt geek tragedy Jun 2013 #42

If you need more, I'll provide them Aerows Jun 2013 #33

that was a pretty pitiful selection from you. geek tragedy Jun 2013 #37

Oh, I forgot Aerows Jun 2013 #39

Just how was I smearing the guy for suggesting he fly to Venezuela? geek tragedy Jun 2013 #41

your translation would be off and really my assessment was a cautious one cali Jun 2013 #17

Blind support for the surveillance state=you lying about my position. nt geek tragedy Jun 2013 #19

hardly. touchy aren't you? cali Jun 2013 #23

I'm touchy when people lie about me. geek tragedy Jun 2013 #25

None of those links indicate that you are not defending the NSA program. Fantastic Anarchist Jun 2013 #45

the accusation was: geek tragedy Jun 2013 #47

So what if he is a narcissist. He isn't a traitor if he tells the truth JDPriestly Jun 2013 #49

I would have agreed before today. geek tragedy Jun 2013 #53

++++++++haha! ++++++++ Whisp Jun 2013 #54

Argue for or against... paleotn Jun 2013 #68

The problem is we don't know what was revealed. geek tragedy Jun 2013 #69

Nobody in the government is denying it. Maedhros Jun 2013 #109

Lets see: Spying on China is ok, but revealing said spying is treason. redgreenandblue Jun 2013 #89

Yes, spying on other countries is perfectly okay. nt geek tragedy Jun 2013 #90

So then Snowden did nothing wrong if he did indeed spy on the USA for China. redgreenandblue Jun 2013 #93

Spying on behalf of one's own country against a foreign power is okay. geek tragedy Jun 2013 #94

Under customary international law all spies are treated equal. redgreenandblue Jun 2013 #95

rec rec rec Autumn Jun 2013 #11

I think it is only about Snowden in the sense that unless people like him come forward we have no avaistheone1 Jun 2013 #13

It isn't right Aerows Jun 2013 #14

When they can't argue facts, and people aren't buying the legalization of crime, Egalitarian Thug Jun 2013 #15

I'm willing to stipulate he's the Worst Person In the World. BlueCheese Jun 2013 #20

BINGO! n/t dgibby Jun 2013 #55

Yep. Little Star Jun 2013 #27

Rec. woo me with science Jun 2013 #30

exactly, who exposed it , what their motivation was has no bearing on the facts bowens43 Jun 2013 #34

interesting. Whisp Jun 2013 #36

You mean the expansion that took place in 2007? pnwmom Jun 2013 #40

Hero or Traitor? Fantastic Anarchist Jun 2013 #43

I agree BainsBane Jun 2013 #44

Kicked and recommended. Uncle Joe Jun 2013 #46

When thinking about our rights I now start to think about the ones we've lost. WHEN CRABS ROAR Jun 2013 #51

I'm not going to get caught up in the personalities of this when it's not what's important. blkmusclmachine Jun 2013 #52

I agree, although some are very dedicated to trying to make it about persons and gossip Bluenorthwest Jun 2013 #56

Exactly. 1) mass surveillance is bad. 2) Even if it were ok we have a right to know about it. limpyhobbler Jun 2013 #57

excellent post warrprayer Jun 2013 #61

DURec leftstreet Jun 2013 #73

K&R. The McCarthyist howler monkeys want us screaming about Snowden, not about Google for Tyrants.nt backscatter712 Jun 2013 #77

There are two major questions/issues.. DCBob Jun 2013 #78

30,000 applications for warrants submitted to the FISA zeeland Jun 2013 #79

33,900 in 33 years. About 1800 last year. JoePhilly Jun 2013 #91

Can you tell me how many of those 33,900 applications zeeland Jun 2013 #98

No. I so disagree. cali Jun 2013 #87

Ok I will revise the questions.. DCBob Jun 2013 #100

Long as warrants were involved then yes its legal. cstanleytech Jun 2013 #99

Exactly. He & Greenwald are not the issue. At all. Triana Jun 2013 #88

Damn Skippy. nt MrScorpio Jun 2013 #97

+1 exactly. SlimJimmy Jun 2013 #103

Thank you again lark Jun 2013 #106

Amen. 840high Jun 2013 #107

Agree 100%. n/t ljm2002 Jun 2013 #112

Thank you. Apophis Jun 2013 #115