General Discussion
In reply to the discussion: Does anyone really give a shit about NC? [View all]calimary
(80,694 posts)Or that thousands of us here posting a lot on DU have ranted, also.
I've had this conversation with two people I know and see fairly often, who are just stuck in republi-CON-ism. One brought up that way, and one probably just rebelling against a liberal-leaning parent who - um - really wasn't all that great at parenting.
"Okay, you hate the Democrats and liberals and you believe in the GOP way of doing things...
...but you're a union member and you need those benefits because that's the only insurance coverage you can afford." (Silence.)
"...Um, you don't like government intrusion into your doctor's office - AND you have a daughter of childbearing age and you don't want the government up inside HER vagina either..." (Silence. Followed by a little half-hearted stammering about baby-killers that kinda fades off.)
"...Um, you're actually concerned about climate change and the party you embrace doth not know science, logic, climatology, or other assorted nuisance facts..." (Silence.)
"...Um, you hate racism..." (Silence.)
"...Um... you were bothered seeing all those lines around the block for hours, waiting to vote, and you thought it looked like we're a Third World country..." (Silence.)
"... Yeah, um, you disapprove of the efforts to curtail the right to vote, you actually think that's kinda not fair..." (Silence.)
"...Um, you're actually OKAY with the idea of restricting the right to vote - when it should really be open to as many people as possible?" (Silence.)
"... And you hated the war..." Them: "...but, but, but, Democrats voted for it TOO..." Me: "And who led the way? Who told the lies? WHO was out there on the front lines, and sold that bullshit to America?" (Silence.)
"...Um... you want your pot holes fixed - you know we all pay taxes to cover stuff like that. (Silence.)
"...Um... you'd have a shit-fit if there were no more food-safety inspectors and you wound up buying bad meat to feed the kids that night." (Silence.)
"...Um - you fly a lot. Don't really need all those air traffic controllers anymore, right? They cost too much. And that airline doesn't need maintenance - let 'em go ahead and cut corners to save a buck! Stupid regulators..." (Silence.)
"...Um - you didn't have ANY insurance at all were it not for the Affordable Care Act." (Silence.)
"...Um - those disability benefits you DEPEND ON, because you're unable to work and you live alone and that's the only regular income you have - DAMN those stupid liberals who fought to get that for you, correct? Let's just get rid of that!" (Silence.)
"...Um... all those meds you have to take, at least you know they're safe. But hey, we don't need all those stupid federal drug inspectors and testing then, how 'bout it? Costs too much. Heaven forbid we have to pay taxes to cover that stuff." (Silence.)
"...Um - because you depend on state aid and welfare, that means you're nothing but a lazy moocher, then, doesn't it?" (Silence.)
"...Um - those stupid fire fighters and first responders that gave their lives recently in that awful fire. But that just costs too much and we have to cut taxes even more, correct? I mean, who needs 'em?" (Silence.)
"...You believe in Jesus Christ and what He taught - like in the Beatitudes and elsewhere, in which He talked about the needs of the poor, homeless, and hungry. You say you're a Christian, but those people are just lazy moochers." (Silence.)
Then I go back to...
"...Um, you hate the idea of government intrusion into your private life or ANYBODY'S private life..." (Silence.)
Then one of them might say ... "but, but, but... right to life... baby killers... it's a baby from that moment ... my daughter, ... but God if she got raped... " Me: "... and WHOSE decision should that be - that affects HER body? Hers? Or yours, even though she'll be 26 in a few weeks? Or some politician's - who's probably a man?" (Silence.
They just don't have answers. They just don't. They can't really respond. They do anyway, of course - they've got lots of talking points and Pox Noise indoctrination and other crap to spew, but it doesn't hold water against these annoying little nuisance things that keep popping up, called FACTS. The truth, reality, facts - just don't fit the picture that's been painted for these poor folks, the way they've been indoctrinated.
At that point you'll probably start getting such retorts as "... well, I dunno..." or "meh, whatever." That's when you usually hit a brick wall. And they do too. Because they don't have good comebacks for any of this when it punches them in their own noses. The standard pull-the-string-and-the-dolly-talks talking points don't fit here. It has the unfortunate effect of forcing them to think, HERE in the real world. And that's uncomfortable. Besides, it doesn't fit with the Pox Noise propaganda they're dutifully swallowing every day. The best you can do is rattle their cages. With one of my friends - all she watches is Pox Noise. I can tell, because stuff she says comes straight out of the mouth of that-guy-whose-name-rhymes-with-Vanity. The only time she hears any other side is when she's over here at our house. And it's very confusing to her.
I guess that's where it starts. Rattling their cages and making them uncomfortable. I think you probably have to do that repeatedly before any of it cuts through and leads them to start questioning, seriously, the propaganda they're being fed. Or maybe even switching the channel from time to time to something OTHER THAN Pox Noise. But some of this is deeply ingrained.
Sometimes all you CAN do is rattle their cages. Make it just a wee bit more uncomfortable and difficult to continue mindlessly embracing these totally UN-Christian "ideals." They don't change easily because nobody wants to admit they were wrong, or worse - that they were gullible and allowed themselves to be fooled and led down the garden path. But that's where it has to start. It has to be brought down home, and the point made intimately and personally - to apply directly to THEM. Part of the problem we have to fight against is the whole notion that it's "those OTHER people" out there somewhere in Teabagger Fantasy Land who are to blame. It has to be brought home - that THEY are directly and personally affected.