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dreamnightwind

(4,775 posts)
75. Two excellent posts you made here
Tue Aug 6, 2013, 05:41 AM
Aug 2013

My take is that the previous system was too unregulated, costs were too out of control, and recission was creating a class of uninsurable people.

Some people use that perspective to make the case that the ACA is an improvement.

I think the opposite. I think the previous system was so ruthless and uncaring, determined to maximize profits with little to no concern of actually providing healthcare, that it soon would have collapsed under its own greed (it was close to that before the ACA, driving spending through the roof), bringing the country to the natural conclusion of that illness, our nation's immune system kicking in to rid ourselves of the infection before it killed us. The infecting agents are the health insurance corporations. We exchanged a deadly parasite that kills its host for a managed vampirism that will drain our resources in a more sustainable manner, keeping us alive but sick and poor. Very similar to the financial crash and rescue of the failed corporations.

We could have gotten to single payer by loudly making the case for it, over and over, as the out-of-control health insurance companies took more and more profit. By pointing out how pretty much every other country has a better solution to this problem, and looking at their implementations for examples, rather than rejecting them and looking for Obama's "uniquely American solution", which is actually uniquely corporate, and isn't Obama's so much as it is the insurance companies' attempt to prevent the real needed reform (their own termination) and tie us to them for the foreseeable future.

The crisis presented an opportunity to get it right, to educate the public about what the problem was. People run into it anyway in their dealings with the insurance companies, they already hate them, so a determined leader could have successfully made that case. Unfortunately too many politicians of both parties depend on too much campaign cash from corporate interests, so they kept the actual solution off the table, wouldn't even allow a single payer advocate to participate in the discussions.

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0 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):

And exactly how did the previous US healthcare system promote equality? intaglio Aug 2013 #1
^^^this^^^ Freddie Aug 2013 #3
After looking at Cryptoad Aug 2013 #15
Sorry it's still described as the weakest go to the wall. This plan propped up the insurance Arcanetrance Aug 2013 #4
Had it not been for the obstructionist GOP the plan would have been quite different Major Nikon Aug 2013 #6
I'm not putting it all on Obama I understand the separation of powers Arcanetrance Aug 2013 #8
It was President Obama and the Democratic leadership in Congress who killed the public option. eomer Aug 2013 #77
Isn't it time to retire the false dilemma from the grab-bag of political bullshit? Egalitarian Thug Aug 2013 #11
It is not a "False" dilemma intaglio Aug 2013 #54
The false dilemma is that the only option to this corporate welfare program is nothing. Egalitarian Thug Aug 2013 #65
I cannot cure willful ignorance intaglio Aug 2013 #70
You should look to your own rather impressive ignorance. Egalitarian Thug Aug 2013 #73
So no refutations? intaglio Aug 2013 #74
You've said nothing that requires any refutation. Egalitarian Thug Aug 2013 #78
Fantasy? Nothing worth refuting? intaglio Aug 2013 #79
How on earth do you get to bitchkitty Aug 2013 #19
Because posts like this are just temper tantrums intaglio Aug 2013 #55
Well, thanks for putting me in my place. bitchkitty Aug 2013 #62
I asked you to correct your accusation intaglio Aug 2013 #63
The OP isn't constructive, leaves out "none at all" perspectives and premise that NOTHING can be ... uponit7771 Aug 2013 #57
Their answer to everything is always "Medicare for all...." cbdo2007 Aug 2013 #40
Unfortunately "gradualism" is a dirty word to the far left n/t intaglio Aug 2013 #56
Making everyone buy insurance from the private sector is not a road to single-payer; it's a HiPointDem Aug 2013 #84
Ignoring the foolishness if your assertion about private insurance, intaglio Aug 2013 #87
japanese system is not 'based upon private insurance funds,' for starters. other huge HiPointDem Aug 2013 #88
Nor is the german system based on private health insurance: HiPointDem Aug 2013 #90
your extensive wiki-ing states that the coverage is only guaranteed by the state intaglio Aug 2013 #92
wrong. HiPointDem Aug 2013 #93
They are private companies intaglio Aug 2013 #94
they aren't private 'companies'. private companies compete in a marketplace on price points HiPointDem Aug 2013 #95
They are 'private companies' like the Freemasons are a 'private company' HiPointDem Aug 2013 #100
It didn't: which is why we didn't need the ACA which mandates that we buy into that system GiaGiovanni Aug 2013 #67
K&R If only someone could've predicted this, then. Egalitarian Thug Aug 2013 #2
Obama took Single Payer off the table w/out the Repubs. even asking him to! Divernan Aug 2013 #5
Which followed Speaker Pelosi keeping it off the agenda and the floor for Egalitarian Thug Aug 2013 #9
Lieberman (Senator from Aetna) was never going to vote for it. JoePhilly Aug 2013 #10
I think you are talking about Al Gore's 2000 Vice Presidential running mate Fumesucker Aug 2013 #29
Who also campaigned against Obama, and for McCain, in 2008. JoePhilly Aug 2013 #30
The point being that a lot of liberals groked Holy Joe in 2000 Fumesucker Aug 2013 #34
You are one of the few who find the Bush years funny. JoePhilly Aug 2013 #42
No, I find you defending Lieberman hilarious Fumesucker Aug 2013 #43
When did I defend Lieberman? Never. JoePhilly Aug 2013 #44
Then what are we arguing about? Fumesucker Aug 2013 #45
You and the Teabaggers keep on rooting for it to fail. geek tragedy Aug 2013 #21
Call me all the names you like, you've made it clear that's all you've got. Egalitarian Thug Aug 2013 #27
Maybe you can lobby your Congressman for the 41st Repeal Vote. Rejectionism is all you got. geek tragedy Aug 2013 #38
If not for your name calling and arguing with yourself by pretending that people said things you Egalitarian Thug Aug 2013 #48
Its working already ... and driving some crazy as a result. nt JoePhilly Aug 2013 #31
+1 uponit7771 Aug 2013 #58
Oh shit! Are we back to Tinkerbell croaking if we don't clap hard enough? JVS Aug 2013 #89
du rec. xchrom Aug 2013 #7
Someone sulphurdunn Aug 2013 #12
Geeze, I'd have preferred to do nothing than to get the advances we did groundloop Aug 2013 #13
So it's your life or your wallet? nolabels Aug 2013 #24
The serious question is whether the overall NET effect is "advances" Jim Lane Aug 2013 #25
So you think NO health insurance is better than expensive?! uponit7771 Aug 2013 #59
(1) Sometimes, yes. (2) Anyway, that isn't the right question. Jim Lane Aug 2013 #64
Two excellent posts you made here dreamnightwind Aug 2013 #75
The 1% comes first with Obama. Not the rest of us. Our health is secondary to forestpath Aug 2013 #14
Yeah, that Medicaid expansion was a complete giveaway to the rich. geek tragedy Aug 2013 #17
You should know all about that. forestpath Aug 2013 #20
I'm not the one rooting for Obamacare to fail and helping sabotage it. nt geek tragedy Aug 2013 #22
Expressing an opinion is not sabotage and such defensive hyperbole only forestpath Aug 2013 #23
Post removed Post removed Aug 2013 #37
+1 MotherPetrie Aug 2013 #68
Do you know where Aroostook county is? geek tragedy Aug 2013 #16
Didja miss this part? progressoid Aug 2013 #28
Did healthcare cost the same before the ACA? geek tragedy Aug 2013 #35
And the USPS will be a fond memory because of just that attitude Fumesucker Aug 2013 #46
That's kind of the point of having a larger pool isn't it? progressoid Aug 2013 #47
yeah, they'd much rather subsidize the insurance business HiPointDem Aug 2013 #86
the biggest city in aroostoock county is 2.5 hours from bangor maine = less time HiPointDem Aug 2013 #81
I saw those Debates, John2 Aug 2013 #18
right wing apologists attacking president Obama again sigmasix Aug 2013 #26
When you can snatch the pebble from my hand, Grasshopper Fumesucker Aug 2013 #32
What do you expect from the "kill the bill" ProSense Aug 2013 #33
Oh, lambert strether is a full blown PUMA psycho who hates Obama. This is not a surprise. nt geek tragedy Aug 2013 #36
+1, please make this an OP... uponit7771 Aug 2013 #60
Obamacare is a rightwing policy. Ask Romney, McCain, Bush... leftstreet Aug 2013 #39
"If Obamacare passed during any of those administrations, DU would shit itself blind" ProSense Aug 2013 #41
Unfortunatly, progressoid Aug 2013 #52
GOPers love that 'Tax and Spend Democrats' crap leftstreet Aug 2013 #71
+1 MotherPetrie Aug 2013 #69
ask the heritage foundation, because that's where it came from. HiPointDem Aug 2013 #91
given the nature of your relentless Obama bashing Sheepshank Aug 2013 #49
Talk about ignoring reality. This article compares Obamacare to a system that was never in place. Mass Aug 2013 #50
And in all the furious name-calling not one mention of the point the article makes. Egalitarian Thug Aug 2013 #51
This message was self-deleted by its author Mass Aug 2013 #53
Fill an article full of sophistry then wonder why no one takes it seriously?! uponit7771 Aug 2013 #61
I never said I wondered at the constant attempts to talk about anything but the post. Egalitarian Thug Aug 2013 #66
We have to get insurance companies out of our health care system! liberal_at_heart Aug 2013 #72
Where does insurance companies get that it costs more to deliver health care in rural areas? B Calm Aug 2013 #76
From the fact that it does, I assume. It does for Medicare, too (nt) Recursion Aug 2013 #83
what are those more expensive things? salaries are comparable. Equipment is carried into HiPointDem Aug 2013 #85
Seriously? Recursion Aug 2013 #96
so the difference is ambulance costs on unpaved roads? (btw, lots of places designated 'rural' HiPointDem Aug 2013 #97
Sigh. Recursion Aug 2013 #98
Sigh. I live in a small town, & we are surrounded by officially designated rural area, but most HiPointDem Aug 2013 #99
K&R woo me with science Aug 2013 #80
It's such a fucking nightmare, but wait! Our resident soothsayers KNOW that it will be a smashing Safetykitten Aug 2013 #82
I have an autistic child. bravenak Aug 2013 #101
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