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Enthusiast

(50,983 posts)

31. K&R!

Mon Oct 28, 2013, 05:26 PM

Oct 2013

I argued with a DU zealot yesterday. He was arguing in favor of Chained CPI as a response to the debt. He posted a right wing graph showing the effects of "entitlements" on the debt. Of course medicare was depicted as the worst culprit.

We could drastically cut the debt if single payer would be adopted. This is now is far beyond a matter of opinion. We see the results in other nations. They get better results with around 55% of the expenditure.

The only valid argument against single payer is concern over the loss of fat cat profits. Their profit doesn't add a thing to the quality of care or the well being of the citizen. We should actually not give one shit about some insurance company CEO losing 80% of his annual salary. It shouldn't even enter the list of considerations.

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We need single payer [View all] boston bean Oct 2013 OP

hear hear! mike_c Oct 2013 #1

Listening to people say, so what if it costs you more, or mine is cheaper... boston bean Oct 2013 #9

Right there with you, AND in addition to being more egalitarian... bvar22 Oct 2013 #101

It's inevitable. nt onehandle Oct 2013 #2

It's incompatible NoOneMan Oct 2013 #35

Then it's time, indeed long PAST time, to bring the "paradigm" to a crashing end! DissidentVoice Oct 2013 #57

That's the point! ;) grahamhgreen Oct 2013 #97

I second this. Cleita Oct 2013 #3

+1 A Public Option could have been a baby step leftstreet Oct 2013 #4

We have just taken the first step toward single payer. NYC_SKP Oct 2013 #5

+1 DinahMoeHum Oct 2013 #28

I don't see a step toward single payer. ronnie624 Oct 2013 #82

That the RW and Corporations hate is proves that it's the right thing to do. NYC_SKP Oct 2013 #86

It's taken me a while, but I agree with you now and nowadays, I always call it ACA tavalon Oct 2013 #84

I agree riverbendviewgal Oct 2013 #6

And we can exploit the ACA to get there. jeff47 Oct 2013 #7

Although some Democrats might object to "exploiting"... BlueEye Oct 2013 #81

I wish I had seen this to begin with tavalon Oct 2013 #85

We will get there. In 2017 the individual states will be able to set up their own single payer. kestrel91316 Oct 2013 #8

But we gots the bestest health care in teh world! progressoid Oct 2013 #10

Isn't he going to be surprised when he flees to Canada? Myrina Oct 2013 #71

ITA, Boston Bean. I think I know how we can get there... DevonRex Oct 2013 #11

I'm going to pray you are right, cause I'm exasperated by the whole thing. boston bean Oct 2013 #13

Just the way you and I have been talking. We TRIED it their way. Really tried. And not DevonRex Oct 2013 #42

I think single payer is inevitable too, for every reason under the sun, sustainability & clarity. nt mother earth Oct 2013 #16

Do you have the link? nt ecstatic Oct 2013 #80

Okay, how do you propose to get there? brooklynite Oct 2013 #12

The OP is a classic false dichotomy mistake Bunnahabhain Oct 2013 #14

What's a Bismarck system? cyberswede Oct 2013 #17

What are the deductibles and copays in the German system? n/t Fumesucker Oct 2013 #41

I had to look that one up, isn't that what we really are saying by "single payer"? mother earth Oct 2013 #19

When you mentioned "Bismarck," I looked it up and learned something. Maat Oct 2013 #27

K & R, single payer is the best option, we don't need the middleman & we certainly don't need all mother earth Oct 2013 #15

Single payer is inferior Bunnahabhain Oct 2013 #18

State your reasons, we are listening...I posted the qualities above that I like. mother earth Oct 2013 #20

Seems to work just fine for LittleGirl Oct 2013 #23

I love tri-care, but then I'm biased - VA saved my life a year ago. If its good enough for me ... marble falls Oct 2013 #70

Tri-care is for military & veterans, right? They EARNED it. MH1 Oct 2013 #73

We earned it, but everybody else needs it and deserves it. marble falls Oct 2013 #74

Many of them could get off their asses and out from behind their keyboards MH1 Oct 2013 #77

I agree: single payer for all, and manditory two year national service, not necessarily military. marble falls Oct 2013 #78

You're being given a golden ticket to explain your position to a bunch of really smart people tavalon Oct 2013 #87

I wish. One MRI ordered that is not needed - but profitable to the orderer- will eat up any savings. Hoyt Oct 2013 #30

Yes, we do! libodem Oct 2013 #21

I agree RedCappedBandit Oct 2013 #22

Of course we do, and it is criminal that we have not got it! DissidentVoice Oct 2013 #24

DLC/Third Way bullshit Enthusiast Oct 2013 #33

Do you mean the ACA? DissidentVoice Oct 2013 #43

While I'm happy to have the ACA Enthusiast Oct 2013 #63

I believe we are going to be stuck with the Mandate to BUY... bvar22 Oct 2013 #102

It's very hard to see it any other way. Enthusiast Oct 2013 #104

It treats human being's health care as a commodity, and while I will give nothing sabrina 1 Oct 2013 #25

The ACA is a flimsy band-aid on a fucked up beyond repair health care system quinnox Oct 2013 #26

it's just a stepping stone, not the answer passiveporcupine Oct 2013 #29

I'm not a huge ACA fan but a2liberal Oct 2013 #60

And those of us with supposed cadillac insurance (never seemed all that great to me) tavalon Oct 2013 #88

I agree on the Cadillac insurance thing a2liberal Oct 2013 #93

thanks for posting this passiveporcupine Nov 2013 #108

You're welcome :) (n/t) a2liberal Nov 2013 #110

K&R! Enthusiast Oct 2013 #31

Well, even in a single payer scenario, I'd expect that those who glowing Oct 2013 #32

Single payer is not based on a person's wealth. ConcernedCanuk Oct 2013 #53

I agree Enthusiast, but passiveporcupine Oct 2013 #34

This State Is Working Toward The Nation's First Universal Health Care System IronLionZion Oct 2013 #36

Yes! passiveporcupine Oct 2013 #38

Once California gets it, the rest of the country will follow suit IronLionZion Oct 2013 #39

Got it! passiveporcupine Oct 2013 #47

Well, of course it would be Vermont tavalon Oct 2013 #89

I'm disapointed that dental care is not included Left Coast2020 Oct 2013 #37

Spoke to... DirtyDawg Oct 2013 #40

Its all a silly game maindawg Oct 2013 #44

Yep. Seeing all these threads today makes that abundantly clear. marmar Oct 2013 #45

This concept causes extreme cognitive dissonance for those whom "got theirs" Corruption Inc Oct 2013 #46

+1000000000000000 woo me with science Oct 2013 #48

Agreed! ourfuneral Oct 2013 #49

If the truth were to be told, healthcare.gov really should be renamed healthinsurance.gov.... xocet Oct 2013 #50

agree 100% Jake2413 Oct 2013 #51

All Democrat's should be out there saying "Health Insurance is not equal to Health Care" harun Oct 2013 #52

K&R Vashta Nerada Oct 2013 #54

And let us not forget the two most important points BlueStreak Oct 2013 #55

Single payer would keep doctors and hospitals from picking and choosing which insurance they'll take Blaukraut Oct 2013 #56

If we keep Senate, and make Nancy Pelosi Speaker, Left Coast2020 Oct 2013 #58

How the hell is anyone going to get rich that way? Spitfire of ATJ Oct 2013 #59

we need to elect people... stillcool Oct 2013 #61

This is the problem right now passiveporcupine Oct 2013 #62

we need a system that encourages health. tomp Oct 2013 #64

I totally agree with you. n/t NealK Oct 2013 #65

K&R deutsey Oct 2013 #66

Agreed. I want to see a good basic health care for all - TBF Oct 2013 #67

when the bottom line is guaranteed profit, not health reddread Oct 2013 #68

I kind of naively asked that once about a year ago ... polly7 Oct 2013 #69

Get all the info right here for an excellent solution >>>> Roland99 Oct 2013 #72

Message auto-removed Name removed Oct 2013 #75

I would amend "cost the same" with this: MH1 Oct 2013 #76

We'd still have to pay into it, and I'm pretty sure it would be on a sliding scale ecstatic Oct 2013 #79

The insurance companies are terrified that we will figure out we don't really need the middle man tavalon Oct 2013 #83

Health insurance employs millions DaveJ Oct 2013 #91

You don't think there will be plenty of front end jobs in Medicare for All? tavalon Oct 2013 #106

This doesn't look "terrified" to me. bvar22 Oct 2013 #103

K & R historylovr Oct 2013 #90

Yes, you do Prophet 451 Oct 2013 #92

The concept is golden. riqster Oct 2013 #94

I'll bump every single post. It's inevitable. All this horse hockey would have been avoided, from grahamhgreen Oct 2013 #95

Yes. n/t Comrade Grumpy Oct 2013 #96

Any right-wing society, such as this, will primarily promote the welfare of the uber-wealthy indepat Oct 2013 #98

+1,000,000 I have been saying this since I came to the US gopiscrap Oct 2013 #99

It's Single Payer.... Moe Shinola Oct 2013 #100

Kicked and recommended. Uncle Joe Oct 2013 #105

rec 203 warrprayer Oct 2013 #107

I agree with what many are saying about the ACA being a starting point davidpdx Nov 2013 #109