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WillyT

(72,631 posts)
Sun Dec 22, 2013, 03:39 PM Dec 2013

In Case You Missed This Nugget From Snowden's Letter To Brazil... [View all]

Item number three is Edward Snowden wrote a letter to the people of Brazil about what was happening to them. It was an appeal for asylum as well. But to me the core of the letter was what he said to the people of Brazil is don't kid yourself. The mass spying that is taking place in Brazil is not about stopping terrorism; it's about the United States getting economic advantage, political advantage, and in the end it's about power.

And that's a very powerful statement. It's one that every person who hears about NSA spying ought to understand. This is not about terrorism. This is about the U.S. empire, U.S. power, U.S. hegemony, probably an increase in the spying as the U.S. empire is on the decline and it has a different world to compete in than it did after the Second World War or after the collapse of the Soviet Union. So that's the third point.


From: http://therealnews.com/t2/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=31&Itemid=74&jumival=11227

From the letter...

American Senators tell us that Brazil should not worry, because this is not "surveillance," it's "data collection." They say it is done to keep you safe. They're wrong. There is a huge difference between legal programs, legitimate spying, legitimate law enforcement — where individuals are targeted based on a reasonable, individualized suspicion — and these programs of dragnet mass surveillance that put entire populations under an all-seeing eye and save copies forever. These programs were never about terrorism: they're about economic spying, social control, and diplomatic manipulation. They're about power.


The letter in full: http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/dec/17/edward-snowden-letter-brazilian-people


258 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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K&R! G_j Dec 2013 #1
Actually it is about control of the Internet... VanillaRhapsody Dec 2013 #2
Yeah he is a racist. MyNameGoesHere Dec 2013 #5
Well seems funny to me he was all about the spying when the White guy was in office VanillaRhapsody Dec 2013 #12
Do you believe Snowden believes that Obama will be President for life? Uncle Joe Dec 2013 #34
Do you think someone who leaks classified information is a hero? VanillaRhapsody Dec 2013 #36
It depends on what the classified information was and to some degree the motivation for doing so Uncle Joe Dec 2013 #41
What a stupid question What in the world is that question supposed to box me into? VanillaRhapsody Dec 2013 #57
Your implied racism imputed to Snowden? WinkyDink Dec 2013 #116
Yes...he is a Libertarian isn't he? Do you know any that aren't? I don't VanillaRhapsody Dec 2013 #164
This isnt about Snowden. Vilifying him is as nine. Are you trying to use misdirection to distract rhett o rick Dec 2013 #190
I have been posting on this thread all day...seems there are many who DO think it is ABOUT VanillaRhapsody Dec 2013 #191
I am not surprised that open-minded people would defend him against rhett o rick Dec 2013 #230
Open minded like Racist Libertarians are? VanillaRhapsody Dec 2013 #232
Good grief! "Racist Libertarians"? Most open-minded people are not racist, but rhett o rick Dec 2013 #234
Again....prove to me that Libertarians aren't also racists... VanillaRhapsody Dec 2013 #235
Once again you try to put words in my mouth. I have never claimed that Libertarians are or are not rhett o rick Dec 2013 #237
OH and what you "think" is not necessarily so is it? VanillaRhapsody Dec 2013 #236
I am fed up with your discussion tactics. I DID NOT SAY SNOWDEN IS OR IS NOT rhett o rick Dec 2013 #238
No that is YOU projecting what I am doing...you know nothing of the sort... VanillaRhapsody Dec 2013 #239
I find your obsession for Snowden strange. Do you even care about the NSA transgressions? nm rhett o rick Dec 2013 #240
I find your defense of him strange.... VanillaRhapsody Dec 2013 #242
My only "defense" is to question the conservative obsession to vilify him. rhett o rick Dec 2013 #243
Hate to burst your bubble...but not everyone who opposes Snowden are all Conservatives.. VanillaRhapsody Dec 2013 #244
You and Bill O'Reilly agree. nm rhett o rick Dec 2013 #247
So? Didn't I say not every one? That implies some are doesn't it? VanillaRhapsody Dec 2013 #248
Go away. I think your favorite Faux News show is on. nm rhett o rick Dec 2013 #250
You first.... VanillaRhapsody Dec 2013 #251
You support centrists not Democrats. Centrists that see eye to eye with conservatives. rhett o rick Dec 2013 #252
No I support Democrats period... VanillaRhapsody Dec 2013 #253
I guess it just never occurs to you that you could be the "Fringe" VanillaRhapsody Dec 2013 #254
Why Edward Snowden Is the Definition of a Whistleblower rhett o rick Dec 2013 #241
He IS the definition of a coward...I will give you that. VanillaRhapsody Dec 2013 #245
Well on that you and Fox News agree. nm rhett o rick Dec 2013 #246
and what is your point? This is what is wrong with your premise... VanillaRhapsody Dec 2013 #249
and by the way....I am using actual statements made by Snowden to support my contentions VanillaRhapsody Dec 2013 #192
He's 29, for Chrissake! Demeter Dec 2013 #203
WTF does that mean? He has had the right to vote for over 10 yrs... VanillaRhapsody Dec 2013 #223
For someone who doesn't like being "boxed" in enlightenment Dec 2013 #228
You don't seem to understand how I meant "boxed in" VanillaRhapsody Dec 2013 #229
Oh and no I don't... VanillaRhapsody Dec 2013 #231
Depends, does it not? Daniel Ellsberg is today pretty much considered a hero. WinkyDink Dec 2013 #114
Yes - and Ellsburg stayed in the United States and willingly faced prosecution George II Dec 2013 #120
That Was A Differnt Time... And The Government Back Then Screwed Its Own Pooch... WillyT Dec 2013 #122
"Obama Has Charged More Under Espionage Act Than All Other Presidents Combined" On the Road Dec 2013 #215
Excellent point. randome Dec 2013 #216
So has Ellsberg said he would have fled to China, Russia and begged Brazil for asylum? VanillaRhapsody Dec 2013 #225
Yes, I believe that Snowden is a hero fasttense Dec 2013 #210
You just described EVERY Govt.... VanillaRhapsody Dec 2013 #226
Or without calling into question his MyNameGoesHere Dec 2013 #74
Maybe he is a Social Security hating NRA supporting Libertarian too... VanillaRhapsody Dec 2013 #77
Now that you have exploded are you feeling better? MyNameGoesHere Dec 2013 #81
He is a freaking Social Security hating, Gun Humper....that speaks volumes to me... VanillaRhapsody Dec 2013 #83
You left out racist that time. MyNameGoesHere Dec 2013 #85
that is because THAT is what I am using to prove he is... VanillaRhapsody Dec 2013 #89
Not I, I am not the one that is flailing arms and gnashing of teeth MyNameGoesHere Dec 2013 #110
I am not flailing at all you must be projecting VanillaRhapsody Dec 2013 #124
I didn't defend him MyNameGoesHere Dec 2013 #126
Yes...either that or you jumped into the middle of a discussion to defend someone who WAS! VanillaRhapsody Dec 2013 #138
Hey, VanillaRhapsody Maedhros Dec 2013 #128
uh no it doesn't he's a Libertarian isn't he? VanillaRhapsody Dec 2013 #131
From the Republican playbook, Maedhros Dec 2013 #135
Yeah but I can prove he humps guns and hates social security... VanillaRhapsody Dec 2013 #143
Do you understand how simply calling names Maedhros Dec 2013 #154
who is calling who names? VanillaRhapsody Dec 2013 #156
Here's the difference, Maedhros. pnwmom Dec 2013 #200
you are nuts G_j Dec 2013 #196
Who cares if he is racist or not? ZombieHorde Dec 2013 #127
No they are not....it goes to motivation... VanillaRhapsody Dec 2013 #133
His motivation is irrelevent. ZombieHorde Dec 2013 #140
Motivation is NEVER irrelevant... VanillaRhapsody Dec 2013 #142
His motivation doesn't change what has been happening. ZombieHorde Dec 2013 #144
doesn't change what? That the capability exists? That is all he has said... VanillaRhapsody Dec 2013 #146
Have you not been following the story? ZombieHorde Dec 2013 #159
still nothing from Snowden proving that it happened... VanillaRhapsody Dec 2013 #160
I think the NSA confession, which resulted from Snowden's actions, ZombieHorde Dec 2013 #161
what "confession" are you talking about? VanillaRhapsody Dec 2013 #168
The NSA admitted to spying on millions of Americans. ZombieHorde Dec 2013 #170
they admitted they could...they have access to to several huge privately owned servers... VanillaRhapsody Dec 2013 #224
Dear Sir... BrainDrain Dec 2013 #211
You wrote this...and you think something is wrong with MY position? VanillaRhapsody Dec 2013 #227
This message was self-deleted by its author BrainDrain Dec 2013 #212
Almost as tragic, yet much more irrelevant, than petulant snark. LanternWaste Dec 2013 #218
Wow, I think that's a new low. Comrade Grumpy Dec 2013 #118
Quacking and walking and screen name n/t Aerows Dec 2013 #205
You should be careful Aerows Dec 2013 #204
He's a libertarian fronting for his libertarian buds. pnwmom Dec 2013 #197
Silly? Lifelong Dem Dec 2013 #214
is that the next Snowden straw man...? mike_c Dec 2013 #6
Its NOT a strawman...did he or did he not support the spying while George W. Bush was VanillaRhapsody Dec 2013 #14
I have no idea, nor do I think it's at all relevant.... mike_c Dec 2013 #18
Oh YES its relevant... VanillaRhapsody Dec 2013 #20
ah-- now I feel all better that the NSA conducts warrentless universal surveillance... mike_c Dec 2013 #25
No it doesn't but I don't jump at the chance to make someone my hero.... VanillaRhapsody Dec 2013 #38
If a Libertarian gives me a million bucks MannyGoldstein Dec 2013 #92
If a Libertarian gives you a million bucks....you can bet he expects something for it... VanillaRhapsody Dec 2013 #93
A million bucks, no strings attached MannyGoldstein Dec 2013 #95
A Libertarian would NEVER give you a dollar...much less a million of them... VanillaRhapsody Dec 2013 #96
My dad's old, and he doesn't want the government to get MannyGoldstein Dec 2013 #101
Who cares what your father does? I don't but Snowden thinks he doesn't deserve his VanillaRhapsody Dec 2013 #105
He didn't utter a word of complaint while Bush was in office. pnwmom Dec 2013 #201
and that is still utterly irrelevant to circumstances today.... mike_c Dec 2013 #221
It is completely relevant to the OP pnwmom Dec 2013 #233
It doesn't MATTER. People can see the light at any time. It's the seeing that matters, not the date. WinkyDink Dec 2013 #117
Congratulations! ChisolmTrailDem Dec 2013 #13
actually if you never read what Snowden said about spying during those years... VanillaRhapsody Dec 2013 #15
He didn't even get the information he did until AFTER 2009 so wouldn't have had it in ChisolmTrailDem Dec 2013 #17
baloney...he thought people who leaked under a republican should be shot.... VanillaRhapsody Dec 2013 #26
Snowden IS NOT my hero. I am, if anything, on the fence regarding Snowden. My posting ChisolmTrailDem Dec 2013 #39
apparently HE is you cannot stand by and let his "reputation" be sullied by the truth. VanillaRhapsody Dec 2013 #40
I don't give a shit about his reputation. I do give a shit that I am being ChisolmTrailDem Dec 2013 #44
You apparently give a shit about Snowden... VanillaRhapsody Dec 2013 #49
Oh, Lord. Ok, there's no reasoning with you. I already said I don't give a shit about Snowden. ChisolmTrailDem Dec 2013 #51
Actions speak louder than words don't they? VanillaRhapsody Dec 2013 #52
+1 Phlem Dec 2013 #61
Are you calling me a Republican? VanillaRhapsody Dec 2013 #62
Do whatever you want to do. You've just landed on full ignore. Phlem Dec 2013 #65
not a Princess or a Republican here...and that is sexist by the way! VanillaRhapsody Dec 2013 #67
More like Snowden hit a nerve on you! cui bono Dec 2013 #153
Not at all...I am only replying to my responses... VanillaRhapsody Dec 2013 #155
You made the claim that Snowden's actions were because of racism. The burden is on you to prove it. cui bono Dec 2013 #255
Yes and I stand by it...Suddenly he changed his mind about what should happen VanillaRhapsody Dec 2013 #256
Prove it. You prove nothing without evidence. cui bono Dec 2013 #257
Okay easy.... VanillaRhapsody Dec 2013 #258
That post was alerted on because you were being disruptive and behaving like a troll. NuclearDem Dec 2013 #181
NO it wasn't...I read it... VanillaRhapsody Dec 2013 #182
Nope, the post you're referring to was alerted on because you were being disruptive and insulting. NuclearDem Dec 2013 #183
see the word "Republican" there...that was the dudes name... VanillaRhapsody Dec 2013 #184
And your post wasn't hidden because of that. NuclearDem Dec 2013 #187
Yes that is what the jury was voting on.... VanillaRhapsody Dec 2013 #188
I think you had the wrong word in quotation marks there: Comrade Grumpy Dec 2013 #119
the truth that he is a Libertarian that supported George Bush's spying and VanillaRhapsody Dec 2013 #123
Your post is very revealing. Maedhros Dec 2013 #129
Great Point... WillyT Dec 2013 #130
YOU are supporting a Social Security hating....Gun Humping Libertarian.... VanillaRhapsody Dec 2013 #134
I'm not supporting anyone. Maedhros Dec 2013 #137
Denial is not a river in Egypt... VanillaRhapsody Dec 2013 #139
Well, you are putting up post after post Maedhros Dec 2013 #151
post after post because about a dozen snowden supporters are responding VanillaRhapsody Dec 2013 #152
I recommend an introductory course in Logic. Maedhros Dec 2013 #158
And you're supporting right wingers like Cheney, Peter King, John Woo, etc. neverforget Dec 2013 #147
You have never seen me on a thread doing that...but I HAVE seen you on one VanillaRhapsody Dec 2013 #149
Look in the mirror neverforget Dec 2013 #150
I am a racist because I hate racists? VanillaRhapsody Dec 2013 #157
No. You accuse others of being Libertarians because they think what Snowden did was neverforget Dec 2013 #162
NO...I accused Snowden of being a Libertarian.... VanillaRhapsody Dec 2013 #165
Thanks for making my argument! neverforget Dec 2013 #166
You don't have one.....but thanks for the laugh... VanillaRhapsody Dec 2013 #169
Seriously. Stop digging. Actually don't as you're comedy gold. neverforget Dec 2013 #171
You haven't made a single point so far....were you trying to? VanillaRhapsody Dec 2013 #176
I made my point and you proved it. Thanks for playing. neverforget Dec 2013 #179
there was a point? Uh no...epic fail if you thought so.... VanillaRhapsody Dec 2013 #180
I explained it but you choose not to get it. neverforget Dec 2013 #186
Bingo! MyNameGoesHere Dec 2013 #220
I am beginning to think you are sick Jack Hollis Dec 2013 #194
Welcome to DU Jack Hollis. TBF Dec 2013 #209
How do you know that he wasn't trying before 2009, but wasn't able to get it? George II Dec 2013 #125
I don't know, and as I've said already in this USELESS thread, I don't give a shit! n/t ChisolmTrailDem Dec 2013 #178
It's Called Having Your Eyes Opened, And Evolving... WillyT Dec 2013 #21
its called hypocrisy...I suggest you look it up! VanillaRhapsody Dec 2013 #23
So President Obama Is A Hypocrite ??? WillyT Dec 2013 #29
Of course Obama is not a hypocrite. truedelphi Dec 2013 #45
Oh... Ok... I Stand Corrected... WillyT Dec 2013 #47
well it certainly shouldn't be blowing up the skirt of the dirty little turn coat should it? VanillaRhapsody Dec 2013 #63
But the comment suggests the Snowden had the information during the White president's ChisolmTrailDem Dec 2013 #24
No it isn't seems everything changed for him when the FIRST black man was elected... VanillaRhapsody Dec 2013 #28
I have never even once raised within my own thoughts that Snowden's motives have/had ChisolmTrailDem Dec 2013 #33
Just because YOU never thought of it...doesn't mean it is not true! VanillaRhapsody Dec 2013 #60
There are many different strains of Libertarian Maedhros Dec 2013 #132
You were saying? VanillaRhapsody Dec 2013 #16
See post #17. And, BTW, before you alert (if you haven't already), please understand... ChisolmTrailDem Dec 2013 #19
You see mine...while a White Republican President was in office...he thought VanillaRhapsody Dec 2013 #22
You're only speculating his motives. You even admit it: "Coincindence? I think not...." ... ChisolmTrailDem Dec 2013 #30
aren't YOU doing the same thing? VanillaRhapsody Dec 2013 #31
besides...saying "I think not" is a figure of speech... VanillaRhapsody Dec 2013 #32
It's cool, VanillaRhapsody. You are, of course, free to believe what you want. The only thing ChisolmTrailDem Dec 2013 #42
FACT is you don't know that they ARE doing it...only that they could.... VanillaRhapsody Dec 2013 #58
IMO, leaking info on the US Govt spying on it's own people is one thing. i can get behind that. dionysus Dec 2013 #174
Yeah, and while a white Republican was in office NuclearDem Dec 2013 #56
Oh yes and YOU know for a fact that Snowden is no longer a racist...is this your contention? VanillaRhapsody Dec 2013 #59
I personally don't give a fuck whether Snowden is a racist or not. NuclearDem Dec 2013 #69
Do you give a fuck what he thinks about our Social Security system and the NRA then? VanillaRhapsody Dec 2013 #71
How is that relevant to the NSA leaks? NuclearDem Dec 2013 #79
HINT he is a Libertarian... VanillaRhapsody Dec 2013 #80
Still haven't answered my question. NuclearDem Dec 2013 #82
How do you feel about Rand Paul? VanillaRhapsody Dec 2013 #84
Broken clock. NuclearDem Dec 2013 #86
Oh thats supposed to box me in huh...cause a Republican built the Interstate Highway System? VanillaRhapsody Dec 2013 #88
Not even close. NuclearDem Dec 2013 #90
Where do I stand on it? Normally I don't stand on it...I am normally in a car... VanillaRhapsody Dec 2013 #91
Alright, so you're a troll. NuclearDem Dec 2013 #94
because I ride in cars I am a troll? VanillaRhapsody Dec 2013 #97
trying to box someone in with a stupid question...That makes YOU the troll! VanillaRhapsody Dec 2013 #98
Whatever you say. Keep on trolling, VR. NuclearDem Dec 2013 #99
You are the troll...as I pointed out.. VanillaRhapsody Dec 2013 #100
Just what makes you so sure this is a black and white problem? A Simple Game Dec 2013 #76
BECAUSE he is a Social Security hating NRA supporting Libertarian... VanillaRhapsody Dec 2013 #78
I think you need to look at a timeline. Seriously. cherokeeprogressive Dec 2013 #102
a timeline to show he is a Libertarian hack? VanillaRhapsody Dec 2013 #104
Yeah, you need to look at a timeline. Seriously. cherokeeprogressive Dec 2013 #107
I don't need a timeline to tell me that a Libertarian is racist...do you? VanillaRhapsody Dec 2013 #141
The entire world doesn't revolve around Obama. NuclearDem Dec 2013 #54
and the entire world doesn't revolve around Snowden the asylum seeker! VanillaRhapsody Dec 2013 #64
I never said it did. NuclearDem Dec 2013 #70
You want to see him forgiven... VanillaRhapsody Dec 2013 #72
oh, god Doctor_J Dec 2013 #106
You've officially run out of excuses. /nt Marr Dec 2013 #163
After seeing all the Republicans' dirty politics for the last 14 years -- pacalo Dec 2013 #3
Not Old Codger Dec 2013 #4
Everything's a business model. 12ZTR Dec 2013 #7
Yep...and welcome to DU...n/t zeemike Dec 2013 #10
Why is Brazil spying on the US? baldguy Dec 2013 #8
It's no secret that everone spys on everyone - just ask Jonathan Pollard! George II Dec 2013 #9
And yet Snowdens fans express endless indignation because the US spies on foreign countries. baldguy Dec 2013 #11
no-- I'm indignant when the NSA spies on foreign CITIZENS, as well as upon... mike_c Dec 2013 #46
But you have nothing for the US Citizens who were spied upon by Brazil. baldguy Dec 2013 #53
huh? what on earth made you jump to that conclusion? mike_c Dec 2013 #136
Well, for one, we have no evidence that Brazil is spying on American citizens. Maedhros Dec 2013 #145
they don't want to admit that they are anti-govt...any govt! VanillaRhapsody Dec 2013 #66
+1. n/t pnwmom Dec 2013 #198
I agree with Snowden. Uncle Joe Dec 2013 #27
Anytime... Uncle Joe, Anytime... Plus: WillyT Dec 2013 #37
That's interesting - from his behavior over the last several months.... George II Dec 2013 #213
I agree with him, too. He should be shot in the balls. randome Dec 2013 #103
Snowden is a modern day Paul Revere with a thumb drive... SidDithers Dec 2013 #35
Whether you mean't it or not that's almost if not the best post I've ever seen from you. n/t Uncle Joe Dec 2013 #43
What I find absolutely hilarious about this theatrical performance is the essential lie Egalitarian Thug Dec 2013 #48
Classic Thread Hi-Jacking... And... WillyT Dec 2013 #50
I wish I could believe that is an unintended consequence. Egalitarian Thug Dec 2013 #68
OTOH... That Poster Keeps Kicking This Thread, Giving It More And More Visibility... WillyT Dec 2013 #75
Just a resident troll doing what they do best. NuclearDem Dec 2013 #189
k/r 840high Dec 2013 #55
Interesting that Brazil is not considering giving him asylum. jazzimov Dec 2013 #73
it shouldn't shock anyone... Blue_Tires Dec 2013 #109
exactly... iamthebandfanman Dec 2013 #195
Did Snowden read all my posts about it all being all about empire and hegemony (and the power that indepat Dec 2013 #87
I Did... WillyT Dec 2013 #108
I honestly if we have ever gone into another nation for any other reason? jwirr Dec 2013 #111
Snowden demonizing the United States to get asylum. gulliver Dec 2013 #112
"entire populations under an all-seeing eye": EVERY Pop star shows the Horus One-Eye. The Olympic WinkyDink Dec 2013 #113
I'd say any political or economic advantage gained Blue_Tires Dec 2013 #115
It's clear from the letter that Snowden desperately wants out of Russia Cali_Democrat Dec 2013 #121
First you criticize him for accepting asylum in Russia, Maedhros Dec 2013 #148
The NSA apologists here never tire of making fools of themselves, do they? DesMoinesDem Dec 2013 #167
And They Feel So... I Dunno... "Boxed In" ??? WillyT Dec 2013 #172
What is wrong with supporting our elected government? treestar Dec 2013 #173
Well... You've Left Me Speechless... WillyT Dec 2013 #175
Why? You seem to take your own views for granted. treestar Dec 2013 #219
Willy T! 2banon Dec 2013 #177
LOL !!! WillyT Dec 2013 #185
I wanted to embed an image of a fiddler and piper chasing the banshee away 2banon Dec 2013 #193
So we're supposed to be surprised and outraged pnwmom Dec 2013 #199
K&R DeSwiss Dec 2013 #202
Any hard evidence to support this claim? DCBob Dec 2013 #206
We have to stop the NSA. another_liberal Dec 2013 #207
Those are the key words in that letter and TBF Dec 2013 #208
So how does that differ from EC Dec 2013 #217
An amazing amount of troll feeding going on in this thread - too many vanilla wafers hueymahl Dec 2013 #222
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