General Discussion

Solly Mack

(92,981 posts)

27. We have federal statutes against torture, yes.

Fri Apr 4, 2014, 01:11 PM

Apr 2014

We had them before Bush was in office. We had them while he was in office. They are still on the books.

Title 18, Part I, Chapter 113C of the U.S. Code

Now, the torture enabling Congress under Bush did change the wording of the 1996 law by lifting the definitions of torture from the torture enabling DOJ's torture memos. The Military Commissions Act of 2006 changed the language of the War Crimes Act of 1996.

The War Crimes Act originally said ANY breach of Common Article 3 - the MCA 2006 amended the WCA 1996 and added the word grave - as in any grave breach. And with Bush's DOJ redefining torture, you can see how this was a CYA approved by Congress.

http://ccrjustice.org/learn-more/faqs/faqs%3A-military-commisions-act

http://www.law.umaryland.edu/marshall/crsreports/crsdocuments/RL33662_10022006.pdf

Pursuant to the Military Commissions Act of 2006 (S. 3930; P.L. 109-XX
[public law number not yet assigned]), approved by Congress in September 2006, the
War Crimes Act criminalizes only those Common Article 3 violations labeled as
“grave breaches.” Previously, any violation of Common Article 3 constituted a
criminal offense under the War Crimes Act. This report discusses current issues
surrounding the War Crimes Act, including amendments made to it by the Military
Commissions Act.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_Crimes_Act_of_1996

http://www.icrc.org/customary-ihl/eng/docs/v2_cou_us_rule156

Military Commissions Act of 2009

https://www.aclu.org/national-security/president-obama-signs-military-commissions-changes-law

https://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/natsec/R41163.pdf

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Do you think George W. Bush should be prosecuted by the Obama administration for torture? [View all] Cali_Democrat Apr 2014 OP

Yes. hrmjustin Apr 2014 #1

Yes. Specifically, I want hearings and investigations into everything that happened after Sept. 11, quinnox Apr 2014 #2

Yes. calimary Apr 2014 #3

Damn right. Jackpine Radical Apr 2014 #4

Voted no for a couple of reasons. NCTraveler Apr 2014 #5

regarding your point #2: DisgustipatedinCA Apr 2014 #11

Fully agree with what you said. NCTraveler Apr 2014 #13

Right--and I agree with your follow-up Have a great weekend. nt DisgustipatedinCA Apr 2014 #15

I voted yes AND was cognizant of point 2 WhaTHellsgoingonhere Apr 2014 #19

I don't think it is too difficult with respect to right and wrong. NCTraveler Apr 2014 #20

You make waaaaaaay too much sense WhaTHellsgoingonhere Apr 2014 #26

It's too late now, maybe--but yeah. What a stain on our country. TwilightGardener Apr 2014 #6

No, I never though there should be prosecutions. Something like Truth & Reconciliations Hearings KittyWampus Apr 2014 #7

Of course I do. nt DisgustipatedinCA Apr 2014 #8

That should have happened, yes. Solly Mack Apr 2014 #9

For breaking what law? Recursion Apr 2014 #10

For violating the UN convention against torture? Cali_Democrat Apr 2014 #14

and what if torture has taken place under our current president? Puzzledtraveller Apr 2014 #16

Yes that is possible Cali_Democrat Apr 2014 #23

I don't have links to articles handy but m-lekktor Apr 2014 #76

Ratified treaties must have enabling legislation to be binding criminal law Recursion Apr 2014 #17

I have no idea either. nt Cali_Democrat Apr 2014 #18

We have federal statutes against torture, yes. Solly Mack Apr 2014 #27

Thank you! Rex Apr 2014 #68

So, the thing about CYAs is that they tend to C As. Recursion Apr 2014 #128

That change doesn't prevent prosecutions. The law still applies. Solly Mack Apr 2014 #130

then shouldn't it be up to the Hague? VanillaRhapsody Apr 2014 #29

We don't fall under The Hague at all. yeoman6987 Apr 2014 #37

But Obama IS working on THAT... VanillaRhapsody Apr 2014 #43

Nope, the US is not a signatory and does not participate in the World Court Bluenorthwest Apr 2014 #44

Obama is changing that....much to your chagrin... VanillaRhapsody Apr 2014 #46

You can bold Wiki entries all you want. former9thward Apr 2014 #80

Try again... VanillaRhapsody Apr 2014 #81

If you want to ignore reality go ahead. former9thward Apr 2014 #90

I gave you facts that we HAVE progressed on THAT too! VanillaRhapsody Apr 2014 #94

only progress that matters Niceguy1 Apr 2014 #100

No actually...progress IS progress..... VanillaRhapsody Apr 2014 #104

the only progress qazplm Apr 2014 #113

to YOU.... VanillaRhapsody Apr 2014 #118

what do you define as Niceguy1 Apr 2014 #121

Definitions.... VanillaRhapsody Apr 2014 #137

I don't think that makes it us law Boom Sound 416 Apr 2014 #123

Post removed Post removed Apr 2014 #24

In violation of what section of the US code or UCMJ? Recursion Apr 2014 #25

oh now its just the US code? Ichingcarpenter Apr 2014 #28

UCMJ, not MCMJ Recursion Apr 2014 #30

prosecution is the only way back to civilized society questionseverything Apr 2014 #33

Yes, but it'll never happen sakabatou Apr 2014 #12

K&R blkmusclmachine Apr 2014 #21

Truth & Reconciliations Hearings Ichingcarpenter Apr 2014 #22

I don't like how you phrased the choices, so I'll rephrase my answer below rock Apr 2014 #31

Yes. And, the ones who actually performed the torture. Tierra_y_Libertad Apr 2014 #32

They gave themselves legal cover. It's reprehensible and plain wrong but... randome Apr 2014 #34

legal cover not possible for this questionseverything Apr 2014 #48

I agree, anything of that nature should be prosecuted no matter what. randome Apr 2014 #50

+1 they would fight those issues at every level in the courts treestar Apr 2014 #85

And in the process damage the Democratic brand. randome Apr 2014 #87

the public is already torn to pieces Doctor_J Apr 2014 #135

This is a really tough one! Whisp Apr 2014 #35

If there is solid evidence fredamae Apr 2014 #36

Where is the "Fucking Hell Yes" option? riqster Apr 2014 #38

No. It would be a waste of Obama's time Submariner Apr 2014 #39

Yes, but that will never happen because bush et all are immune because of our laws. Sunlei Apr 2014 #40

No KamaAina Apr 2014 #41

How so? Are they just going to turn themselves over? TheKentuckian Apr 2014 #51

Absolutely. Although it would be pretty hypocritical coming from the Obama administration. PoliticalPothead Apr 2014 #42

So let them die because the GOP refuses to release them? randome Apr 2014 #49

So what percentage of liberal Democrats think Dubya should be prosecuted for torture? Fumesucker Apr 2014 #45

I don't see the point of this. Ain't ever, ever, ever going to happen. themaguffin Apr 2014 #47

Then there is no legitimate rule of law, leaving us with just us and no justice. TheKentuckian Apr 2014 #56

and it ain't happening. So just give up on life, or work on what CAN happen themaguffin Apr 2014 #66

This is basic there is no "can", if we can't then anything that can happen is a gift not the fruit TheKentuckian Apr 2014 #114

That's what I'm there is no "can" in this, so focus on what what CAN be done. Not wishing. themaguffin Apr 2014 #131

Nothing can be done then, we can be granted a few boons that don't cost anything. TheKentuckian Apr 2014 #132

Hell, yes. "A Guide to the Memos on Torture": Lars39 Apr 2014 #52

I voted Pass... And I'll tell you why... Ohio Joe Apr 2014 #53

i want invetigations into why impeachment was off the table leftyohiolib Apr 2014 #54

Huh? A criminal investigation into why Congress took impeachment of Bush off the table? Cali_Democrat Apr 2014 #57

i know, but that's what i want leftyohiolib Apr 2014 #97

Although I think Cheney is more guilty. Blue_In_AK Apr 2014 #55

Yes. Half-Century Man Apr 2014 #58

Obama's claims of Big Religion are so bogus while he looks the other way at Bluenorthwest Apr 2014 #59

Big Religion? Cali_Democrat Apr 2014 #65

I voted No ... 1StrongBlackMan Apr 2014 #60

Fair, but mustn't the threat exist Boom Sound 416 Apr 2014 #124

in a perfect world, shrub, cheney, rummy, ect, would be up on treason and war crimes charges. dionysus Apr 2014 #61

That's why I voted no... Blanks Apr 2014 #69

Ideally, yes. But it's a bad political precedent, IMO. Adrahil Apr 2014 #62

I think he should be prosecuted, period. Iggo Apr 2014 #63

America will never never never be what you think if they are not polynomial Apr 2014 #64

This is a serious question? whatchamacallit Apr 2014 #67

Looks like DU sentiment is pretty overwhelming. nt Cali_Democrat Apr 2014 #70

Yes (nt) bigwillq Apr 2014 #71

It's very telling that 20 people voted no. Vashta Nerada Apr 2014 #72

Make that 21... brooklynite Apr 2014 #73

Post #27 Rex Apr 2014 #74

Post 27, which mentions the specific CYA law that is the problem? Recursion Apr 2014 #129

Are you being serious? Vashta Nerada Apr 2014 #75

I voted No KamaAina Apr 2014 #77

Not really. bigwillq Apr 2014 #79

Yes, Obama should prosecute. Brigid Apr 2014 #78

That's a moot point. idendoit Apr 2014 #82

and treason n/t 2pooped2pop Apr 2014 #83

Good question. I say no because it would become a long circus treestar Apr 2014 #84

If we actually had a JUST administration... 99Forever Apr 2014 #86

Since Dick and George were instrumental in the torture of non-US citizens Sheepshank Apr 2014 #88

They tortured in our name, on our dime, and spread incalculable rot in our institutions. TheKentuckian Apr 2014 #115

your snark wasn't necessary on a valid question, where international law is confusing Sheepshank Apr 2014 #133

What snark? Anger? Sure, guilty as charged. Snark? What I said doesn't even rise to mild sarcasm. TheKentuckian Apr 2014 #136

Damned Fuckin Tootin !!! WillyT Apr 2014 #89

Same here WillyT johnnyreb Apr 2014 #116

(((((((johnnyreb))))))) WillyT Apr 2014 #120

I really think he should be prosecuted onethatcares Apr 2014 #91

Obama Administration SHOULD HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH JUSTICE. Octafish Apr 2014 #92

I VOTED YES (170 votes) and clicked recommend trueblue2007 Apr 2014 #93

He'll might as well... CFLDem Apr 2014 #95

No. If we prosecute every President for bad decisions, every President bluestate10 Apr 2014 #96

You don't want to go after Bush, but you have it in for Nader voters DisgustipatedinCA Apr 2014 #117

Disgusting isn't it? neverforget Apr 2014 #125

How the hell is George W. Bush not accountable and responsible for his own actions? TheKentuckian Apr 2014 #139

Yes and prosecute EVERYONE and ANYONE involved regardless of party Exposethefrauds Apr 2014 #98

For torture and other crimes. Enthusiast Apr 2014 #99

I don't see it happening… Champion Jack Apr 2014 #101

Yes - Absoulutely - Without A Doubt - He Should Pay Dearly For His Crimes cantbeserious Apr 2014 #102

Bush and clearly a number of others. Bush was a tool, there were many others RKP5637 Apr 2014 #103

Yes! onecaliberal Apr 2014 #105

I did not vote out of fear of a rumor nilesobek Apr 2014 #106

War crimes are war crimes. 99Forever Apr 2014 #107

Fuzzy, warm feelings surround me nilesobek Apr 2014 #109

I have no idea what your point is. n/t 99Forever Apr 2014 #110

Very hard question karynnj Apr 2014 #108

So maybe marions ghost Apr 2014 #138

i think we need to waterboard both W + cheeney on live teevee + then say we are sorry for these pansypoo53219 Apr 2014 #111

He should be prosecuted for something jmowreader Apr 2014 #112

Yes. Just because it will never happen doesn't mean it shouldn't. Raksha Apr 2014 #119

Bush? Maybe. Rumsfeld, Cheney, and Rice? Hell fucking yes! Initech Apr 2014 #122

Rumsfeld and Cheney belong in jail. oldandhappy Apr 2014 #126

I just got through reading ''Kill Anything That Moves" by Nick Turse and> YOHABLO Apr 2014 #127

no; if done it should be at the international level eShirl Apr 2014 #134