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In reply to the discussion: Saudi Arabia Begins Air Campaign in Yemen [View all]freshwest
(53,661 posts)17. In recent history, there most certainly was:
NATO bombing of Yugoslavia
Operation Allied Force
Part of the Kosovo War
Novi Sad on fire, 1999 Federal Republic of Yugoslavia.
Date
March 24, 1999 June 10, 1999 (78 days)[3]
Location
Federal Republic of Yugoslavia,[4] mainly in the Republic of Serbia and Kosovo[5][6]
Result
NATO victory[7]
* Kumanovo Treaty initiated
* Withdrawal of Serb forces from
Kosovo
* Deployment of KFOR
* Heavy destruction of Yugoslavia's economy and infrastructure
Territorial changes
UN Resolution 1244; de facto separation of Kosovo from Yugoslavia under United Nations temporary administration
Background
After its autonomy was quashed, Kosovo was faced with state organized oppression: since the early 1990s, Albanian language radio and television were restricted and newspapers shut down, whereas Kosovar Albanians were fired in large numbers from public enterprises and institutions, including banks, hospitals, the post office and schools.[44] In June 1991 the University of Pritina assembly and several faculty councils were dissolved and replaced by Serbs, and Kosovar Albanian teachers were prevented from entering school premises for the new school year beginning in September 1991, forcing students to study at home.[44]
With time, Kosovar Albanians started an insurgency against Belgrade when the Kosovo Liberation Army was founded in 1996. Armed clashes between two sides broke out in early 1998. A NATO-facilitated ceasefire was signed on 15 October, but both sides broke it two months later and fighting resumed. When the killing of 45 Kosovar Albanians in the Račak massacre was reported in January 1999, NATO decided that the conflict could only be settled by introducing a military peacekeeping force to forcibly restrain the two sides. After the Rambouillet Accords broke down on 23 March with Yugoslav rejection of an external peacekeeping force, NATO prepared to install the peacekeepers by force.
Goals
NATO's objectives in the Kosovo conflict were stated at the North Atlantic Council meeting held at NATO headquarters in Brussels on April 12, 1999:[45]
* An end to all military action and the immediate termination of violence and repressive activities by the Milosevic government;
* Withdrawal of all military, police and paramilitary forces from Kosovo;
* Stationing of UN peacekeeping presence in Kosovo;
* Unconditional and safe return of all refugees and displaced persons;
* Establishment of a political framework agreement for Kosovo based on Rambouillet Accords, in conformity with international law and the Charter of the United Nations.
Strategy
Operation Allied Force predominantly used a large-scale air campaign to destroy Yugoslav military infrastructure from high altitudes. Ground units were not used because NATO wanted to minimize the risk of losing forces, as well as avoiding public criticism related to its relative ineffectiveness[citation needed] against mobile ground targets. After the third day of aerial bombing, NATO had destroyed almost all of its strategic military targets in Yugoslavia. Despite this, the Yugoslav Army continued to function and to attack Kosovo Liberation Army (KLA) insurgents inside Kosovo, mostly in the regions of Northern and Southwest Kosovo. NATO bombed strategic economic and societal targets, such as bridges, military facilities, official government facilities, and factories, using long-range cruise missiles to hit heavily defended targets, such as strategic installations in Belgrade and Pristina. The NATO air forces also targeted infrastructure, such as power plants (using the BLU-114/B "Soft-Bomb" , water-processing plants and the state-owned broadcaster, causing much environmental and economic damage throughout Yugoslavia.
Commentators have debated whether the capitulation of Yugoslavia in the Kosovo War of 1999 resulted solely from the use of air power, or whether other factors contributed.
Due to restrictive media laws, media in Yugoslavia carried little coverage of what its forces were doing in Kosovo, or of other countries' attitudes to the humanitarian crisis; so, few members of the public expected bombing, instead thinking that a diplomatic deal would be made.[46]
Arguments for strategic air power
According to John Keegan, the capitulation of Yugoslavia in the Kosovo War marked a turning point in the history of warfare. It "proved that a war can be won by air power alone". By comparison, diplomacy had failed before the war, and the deployment of a large NATO ground force was still weeks away when Slobodan Miloević agreed to a peace deal.[47]
As for why air power should have been capable of acting alone, it has been argued[by whom?] that there are several factors required. These normally come together only rarely, but all occurred during the Kosovo War:[48]
1. Bombardment needs to be capable of causing destruction while minimising casualties. This causes pressure within the population to end hostilities rather than to prolong them. The exercise of precision air power in the Kosovo War is said[by whom?] to have provided this.
2. The régime must be susceptible to pressure from within the population. As was demonstrated by the overthrow of Miloević a year later, Serbia's government was only weakly authoritarian and depended upon support from within the country.
3. There must be a disparity of military capabilities such that the opponent is unable to inhibit the exercise of air superiority over its territory. Serbia, a relatively small impoverished Balkan state, faced a much more powerful NATO coalition including the United Kingdom and the United States.
4. Carl von Clausewitz once called the "essential mass of the enemy" his "centre of gravity". Should the centre of gravity be destroyed, a major factor in Yugoslavian will to resist would be broken or removed. In Miloević's case, the centre of gravity was his hold on power. He manipulated hyperinflation, sanctions and restrictions in supply and demand to allow powerful business interests within Serbia to profit and they responded by maintaining him in power. The damage to the economy, which squeezed it to a point where there was little profit to be made, threatened to undermine their support for Miloević if the air campaign continued, whilst causing costly infrastructure damage.[49]
The NATO bombing of Yugoslavia was the North Atlantic Treaty Organisation's (NATO) military operation against the Federal Republic of Yugoslavia during the Kosovo War. According to NATO the operation sought to stop human rights abuses in Kosovo,[40] and it was the first time that this military organisation used military force without the approval of the UN Security Council and against a sovereign nation that did not pose a threat to members of the alliance.[41] The strikes lasted from March 24, 1999 to June 10, 1999. The official NATO operation code name was Operation Allied Force; the United States called it Operation Noble Anvil,[42] while in Yugoslavia the operation was incorrectly called "Merciful Angel" (Serbian Cyrillic: Милосрдни анђео , as a result of a misunderstanding of nomenclature which was only temporary.[43]
The NATO bombing marked the second major combat operation in its history, following the 1995 NATO bombing campaign in Bosnia and Herzegovina. The 1999 bombings led to the withdrawal of Yugoslav forces from Kosovo and the establishment of UNMIK, a U.N. mission in Kosovo.
During the bombing that killed between 2,000 and 4,000 civilians, destroyed many bridges, industrial plants, many civilian buildings, public buildings and businesses, barracks and military installations. It should be particularly noted the destruction of two oil refineries, demolition Avala Tower, the Radio-Television Serbia, the Pancevo petrochemical, shooting bridge building, car factory Zastava from Kragujevac, in the buildings of downtown Belgrade, Embassy of the Republic of China and many other civilian targets.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NATO_bombing_of_Yugoslavia
Milosovich was involved in the Siege of Sarajevo and the Yugoslavian war and died at The Hague:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slobodan_Milo%C5%A1evi%C4%87
Had an intereesting life with a surprising amount of family members committing suicide. Seemingly did sgood things, not as bad as portrayed. The charges laid against him after his people threw him out of office when the war was over. But without any bloodshed, they just walked into the offices of government en masse and that was the end of it, IIRC.
But opinions on him, the civil war and the NATO action varies with whom you're talking. I conversed for several years with Russians who sided with the Serbs and claimed that when the Serbians and Milosovich lost control, the Muslims went about killing all the Christians and were intent on driving them all out.
I also talked a young Kosovan man on the other side, who was not religious. He was very glad NATO did what they did and when they finally got their independence, he was ecstatic. He showed me a lot about the area, and explained how they were still cleaning up from the civil war that had been ongoing for a long time. Things like how the hills and parks had been mined and they could not go hurting. He grew up in the era of the Siege of Sarajevo:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siege_of_Sarajevo
Which was a major destruction of civil society and the unity of Yugoslavia. It was quite heartbreaking to see what was going at the time. But he was of the generation that was grew up then and he saw nothing but peace with the rebuilding going on. He was optimistic, also liked Americans very much. So who is to say?
I digressed, but I thought that would be an example of foreign countries ending a civil war for you, as it'd been going on for over 7 years and was ended in 78 days with some more minor events once NATO decided to contain the contagion.
My Russian friends felt the war would continue to engulf all of the Balkans since they believed it was another Islamic push into Europe. They said if Kosovo was allowed independence it would happen. They were exceedingly angry with the American and their allied bombing.
The warfare in the region did, however, stop there. That is likely too much information but that is just what came off the top of my head in replying to your question. The Saudis can indeed push the outcome of the events in Yemen to their favor. ISIS has promised they will destroy Mecca and the Saudis, and well, a lot of other Muslims while they're working to bring Heaven on Earth. Sounds depressingly familiar.
Operation Allied Force
Part of the Kosovo War
Novi Sad on fire, 1999 Federal Republic of Yugoslavia.
Date
March 24, 1999 June 10, 1999 (78 days)[3]
Location
Federal Republic of Yugoslavia,[4] mainly in the Republic of Serbia and Kosovo[5][6]
Result
NATO victory[7]
* Kumanovo Treaty initiated
* Withdrawal of Serb forces from
Kosovo
* Deployment of KFOR
* Heavy destruction of Yugoslavia's economy and infrastructure
Territorial changes
UN Resolution 1244; de facto separation of Kosovo from Yugoslavia under United Nations temporary administration
Background
After its autonomy was quashed, Kosovo was faced with state organized oppression: since the early 1990s, Albanian language radio and television were restricted and newspapers shut down, whereas Kosovar Albanians were fired in large numbers from public enterprises and institutions, including banks, hospitals, the post office and schools.[44] In June 1991 the University of Pritina assembly and several faculty councils were dissolved and replaced by Serbs, and Kosovar Albanian teachers were prevented from entering school premises for the new school year beginning in September 1991, forcing students to study at home.[44]
With time, Kosovar Albanians started an insurgency against Belgrade when the Kosovo Liberation Army was founded in 1996. Armed clashes between two sides broke out in early 1998. A NATO-facilitated ceasefire was signed on 15 October, but both sides broke it two months later and fighting resumed. When the killing of 45 Kosovar Albanians in the Račak massacre was reported in January 1999, NATO decided that the conflict could only be settled by introducing a military peacekeeping force to forcibly restrain the two sides. After the Rambouillet Accords broke down on 23 March with Yugoslav rejection of an external peacekeeping force, NATO prepared to install the peacekeepers by force.
Goals
NATO's objectives in the Kosovo conflict were stated at the North Atlantic Council meeting held at NATO headquarters in Brussels on April 12, 1999:[45]
* An end to all military action and the immediate termination of violence and repressive activities by the Milosevic government;
* Withdrawal of all military, police and paramilitary forces from Kosovo;
* Stationing of UN peacekeeping presence in Kosovo;
* Unconditional and safe return of all refugees and displaced persons;
* Establishment of a political framework agreement for Kosovo based on Rambouillet Accords, in conformity with international law and the Charter of the United Nations.
Strategy
Operation Allied Force predominantly used a large-scale air campaign to destroy Yugoslav military infrastructure from high altitudes. Ground units were not used because NATO wanted to minimize the risk of losing forces, as well as avoiding public criticism related to its relative ineffectiveness[citation needed] against mobile ground targets. After the third day of aerial bombing, NATO had destroyed almost all of its strategic military targets in Yugoslavia. Despite this, the Yugoslav Army continued to function and to attack Kosovo Liberation Army (KLA) insurgents inside Kosovo, mostly in the regions of Northern and Southwest Kosovo. NATO bombed strategic economic and societal targets, such as bridges, military facilities, official government facilities, and factories, using long-range cruise missiles to hit heavily defended targets, such as strategic installations in Belgrade and Pristina. The NATO air forces also targeted infrastructure, such as power plants (using the BLU-114/B "Soft-Bomb" , water-processing plants and the state-owned broadcaster, causing much environmental and economic damage throughout Yugoslavia.
Commentators have debated whether the capitulation of Yugoslavia in the Kosovo War of 1999 resulted solely from the use of air power, or whether other factors contributed.
Due to restrictive media laws, media in Yugoslavia carried little coverage of what its forces were doing in Kosovo, or of other countries' attitudes to the humanitarian crisis; so, few members of the public expected bombing, instead thinking that a diplomatic deal would be made.[46]
Arguments for strategic air power
According to John Keegan, the capitulation of Yugoslavia in the Kosovo War marked a turning point in the history of warfare. It "proved that a war can be won by air power alone". By comparison, diplomacy had failed before the war, and the deployment of a large NATO ground force was still weeks away when Slobodan Miloević agreed to a peace deal.[47]
As for why air power should have been capable of acting alone, it has been argued[by whom?] that there are several factors required. These normally come together only rarely, but all occurred during the Kosovo War:[48]
1. Bombardment needs to be capable of causing destruction while minimising casualties. This causes pressure within the population to end hostilities rather than to prolong them. The exercise of precision air power in the Kosovo War is said[by whom?] to have provided this.
2. The régime must be susceptible to pressure from within the population. As was demonstrated by the overthrow of Miloević a year later, Serbia's government was only weakly authoritarian and depended upon support from within the country.
3. There must be a disparity of military capabilities such that the opponent is unable to inhibit the exercise of air superiority over its territory. Serbia, a relatively small impoverished Balkan state, faced a much more powerful NATO coalition including the United Kingdom and the United States.
4. Carl von Clausewitz once called the "essential mass of the enemy" his "centre of gravity". Should the centre of gravity be destroyed, a major factor in Yugoslavian will to resist would be broken or removed. In Miloević's case, the centre of gravity was his hold on power. He manipulated hyperinflation, sanctions and restrictions in supply and demand to allow powerful business interests within Serbia to profit and they responded by maintaining him in power. The damage to the economy, which squeezed it to a point where there was little profit to be made, threatened to undermine their support for Miloević if the air campaign continued, whilst causing costly infrastructure damage.[49]
The NATO bombing of Yugoslavia was the North Atlantic Treaty Organisation's (NATO) military operation against the Federal Republic of Yugoslavia during the Kosovo War. According to NATO the operation sought to stop human rights abuses in Kosovo,[40] and it was the first time that this military organisation used military force without the approval of the UN Security Council and against a sovereign nation that did not pose a threat to members of the alliance.[41] The strikes lasted from March 24, 1999 to June 10, 1999. The official NATO operation code name was Operation Allied Force; the United States called it Operation Noble Anvil,[42] while in Yugoslavia the operation was incorrectly called "Merciful Angel" (Serbian Cyrillic: Милосрдни анђео , as a result of a misunderstanding of nomenclature which was only temporary.[43]
The NATO bombing marked the second major combat operation in its history, following the 1995 NATO bombing campaign in Bosnia and Herzegovina. The 1999 bombings led to the withdrawal of Yugoslav forces from Kosovo and the establishment of UNMIK, a U.N. mission in Kosovo.
During the bombing that killed between 2,000 and 4,000 civilians, destroyed many bridges, industrial plants, many civilian buildings, public buildings and businesses, barracks and military installations. It should be particularly noted the destruction of two oil refineries, demolition Avala Tower, the Radio-Television Serbia, the Pancevo petrochemical, shooting bridge building, car factory Zastava from Kragujevac, in the buildings of downtown Belgrade, Embassy of the Republic of China and many other civilian targets.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NATO_bombing_of_Yugoslavia
Milosovich was involved in the Siege of Sarajevo and the Yugoslavian war and died at The Hague:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slobodan_Milo%C5%A1evi%C4%87
Had an intereesting life with a surprising amount of family members committing suicide. Seemingly did sgood things, not as bad as portrayed. The charges laid against him after his people threw him out of office when the war was over. But without any bloodshed, they just walked into the offices of government en masse and that was the end of it, IIRC.
But opinions on him, the civil war and the NATO action varies with whom you're talking. I conversed for several years with Russians who sided with the Serbs and claimed that when the Serbians and Milosovich lost control, the Muslims went about killing all the Christians and were intent on driving them all out.
I also talked a young Kosovan man on the other side, who was not religious. He was very glad NATO did what they did and when they finally got their independence, he was ecstatic. He showed me a lot about the area, and explained how they were still cleaning up from the civil war that had been ongoing for a long time. Things like how the hills and parks had been mined and they could not go hurting. He grew up in the era of the Siege of Sarajevo:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siege_of_Sarajevo
Which was a major destruction of civil society and the unity of Yugoslavia. It was quite heartbreaking to see what was going at the time. But he was of the generation that was grew up then and he saw nothing but peace with the rebuilding going on. He was optimistic, also liked Americans very much. So who is to say?
I digressed, but I thought that would be an example of foreign countries ending a civil war for you, as it'd been going on for over 7 years and was ended in 78 days with some more minor events once NATO decided to contain the contagion.
My Russian friends felt the war would continue to engulf all of the Balkans since they believed it was another Islamic push into Europe. They said if Kosovo was allowed independence it would happen. They were exceedingly angry with the American and their allied bombing.
The warfare in the region did, however, stop there. That is likely too much information but that is just what came off the top of my head in replying to your question. The Saudis can indeed push the outcome of the events in Yemen to their favor. ISIS has promised they will destroy Mecca and the Saudis, and well, a lot of other Muslims while they're working to bring Heaven on Earth. Sounds depressingly familiar.
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Saudi use of American supplied weapons in an offensive non-consensual capacity may be a violation of the arms supply agreement.
Fred Sanders
Mar 2015
#1
I'm not sure bombing anyone will stop a civil war. Is there an example in history where
bloomington-lib
Mar 2015
#4
"Saudi leads ten-nation Sunni coalition in bombing Yemen's Shia rebels" - Telegraph
Larry Engels
Mar 2015
#25
At least the Saudis waited to launch war by proxy with Persian Iran until after America evacuated diplomatic personnel.
Fred Sanders
Mar 2015
#8
If I am not mistaken Lawrence O just reported that we are supporting them with bombing. How
jwirr
Mar 2015
#10
Even when the body bags were coming home a lot of Ameicans do not care as long as it is not
jwirr
Mar 2015
#21
Whoever we have treaties with, I guess. And we're not at war, we just sold them that stuff.
freshwest
Mar 2015
#18