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anigbrowl

(13,889 posts)
9. In a criminal trial you have to go beyond reasonable doubt
Thu Jun 16, 2016, 09:17 PM
Jun 2016

Would Freddie Gray have intentionally thrown himself around the van to get beaten up and thus get sympathy/medical treatment instead of a jail cell? Probably not because that would be sort of stupid, but I don't know him or his background to say for sure. Could he have? Sure possibly, and without other evidence to settle the question that means a reasonable doubt exists as to whether the driver was responsible.

Please recall that 'reasonable' in law doesn't mean 'what the average person considers sensible' or suchlike, but a doubt that can be raised by using reason/logic. So you could argue that the victim's injuries were inflicted by passing ninjas, for example, but you'd have a hard time coming up with a logical explanation of how that might have happened.

On the other hand people have been known to injure or kill themselves deliberately even though the reasons for doing so don't necessarily make sense to others; this is a fact. We can't ask Freddie Gray because he's dead, sadly, and as a result a doubt exists about how he incurred his injuries absent other evidence. Where a doubt exists you can't have a conviction.

This is one of the difficulties of the US being a common law country; our trails are about establishing whether a sufficient burden of proof has been met to impose criminal liability. In some other countries that use a civil law system trials are conducted more like inquests, with the highest priority being to find the truth of what happened and allocation of responsibility and punishment a secondary objective. One interesting side effect is that a system like this eliminates plea bargaining. If someone is murdered in Germany, for example, the trial is going to take place regardless of whether the prime suspect admits guilt or not; even if the person freely accepts responsibility for a crime the trial is carried out anyway to establish a record of what actually happened. We could do worse than incorporate that idea here.

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Hmm I am leaning towards show trial which irks me because they are wasting alot of money, time cstanleytech Jun 2016 #1
I have a problem claiming there is no evidence of malfeasance.... Tommy_Carcetti Jun 2016 #2
Careful Blandocyte Jun 2016 #3
In a criminal trial you have to go beyond reasonable doubt anigbrowl Jun 2016 #9
So, if the guy was genuinely this incompetent Kelvin Mace Jun 2016 #4
Ex police officer is star witness for the defense... Taitertots Jun 2016 #5
They can't have a rough ride being their theory of the case Calista241 Jun 2016 #6
I agree. That's why it's inexcusable to call an "expert"... Taitertots Jun 2016 #7
Wait for the verdict. Igel Jun 2016 #8
That's the trouble I have understanding Mosby and her motivations... TipTok Jun 2016 #10
Gray got seriously injured by the police actions. joshcryer Jun 2016 #11
She overcharged ... TipTok Jun 2016 #12
No, she is young, she just didn't go in the right direction. joshcryer Jun 2016 #13
You can't speak to her true motivations any more than I can... TipTok Jun 2016 #14
I disagree, inexperience is a legitimate excuse. joshcryer Jun 2016 #15
It does make them wrong... TipTok Jun 2016 #16
I can't disagree. joshcryer Jun 2016 #18
You can't put people on trial just because. Calista241 Jun 2016 #19
You can as this trial shows... TipTok Jun 2016 #20
The angry mob demanded prosecutions and they got them Freddie Stubbs Jun 2016 #17
This whole thing is ridiculous. Something needs to be done to our justice system. nt eastwestdem Jun 2016 #21
What would you suggest? philosslayer Jun 2016 #22
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