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Igel

(35,191 posts)
47. The intelligence assessment stay remains accurate.
Wed Dec 19, 2018, 08:19 AM
Dec 2018

The Russians were meddling when Trump was at 5% for (R) votes in the early primaries. They were meddling against HRC. Not for Trump.

We've back-dated our thinking, and that's always a bad thing to do if history is about understanding why events happened as they did and looking for causality and motives at the time. It's a fine and glorious thing if the goal of history is commentary on the present, with an eye to making sure people understand why the One True Thinking is really the only one that's true.

If the goal of Putin was to elect Trump, then you have to wonder why, exactly, early on things weren't pro-Trump. Early on they were anti-HRC. And whenever any (R) seemed to be in good shape, anti that particular (R). The goal was chaos. The goal was weakening. And to some extent, the goal was personal against HRC.

Trump support came later. It was there, but the recent report that backdates everything anti-HRC and sees things in stark binary terms, "If you're against HRC it means you were for Trump" doesn't work here any more than it would in saying that the opposition in the '90s to HRC was by Trump supporters trying to get him elected. It's closer in time, to be sure, but scarcely more connected. But now, even anti-(R) support early on, since it helped ding some conservatives, has been re-analyzed as being pro-Trump. Even if there was, actually, nothing pro-Trump at the time. That may have been the effect, but it was hardly the goal at the time. (How do we know? Because if you're pro-Trump, you should actually say something nice about him, right? It's the same kind of flaccid argument made by some about people who only criticize the US: "If you only criticize the US, then obviously you're pro-China." Arguments from silence haven't gained any more credibility in the last few years than they had in the previous 2000.)

(The recent report also had a goal: What was the actions that helped Trump. If an action didn't help Trump, it's not pertinent. That makes it strong fodder for the availability heuristic bias.)

Putin's goal was not for Trump to win. DetlefK Dec 2018 #1
LOL! ChiTownDenny Dec 2018 #6
Shirley you're jesting..... erronis Dec 2018 #20
Yes. ChiTownDenny Dec 2018 #22
The intelligence assessment stay remains accurate. Igel Dec 2018 #47
goals change with circumstances qazplm135 Dec 2018 #52
Kick dalton99a Dec 2018 #2
It wasn't just pro Stein, watoos Dec 2018 #3
+1 Power 2 the People Dec 2018 #4
Stein was an active participant, Bernie wasn't louis c Dec 2018 #5
Yes... only reason Putin helped Bernie was because his name wasn't Hillary groundloop Dec 2018 #7
You may be right, and it certainly looks that way, watoos Dec 2018 #8
I think the powers know. There was this.. LakeArenal Dec 2018 #12
Useful! Idiot Maybe? MiddleClass Dec 2018 #28
BS LiberalLovinLug Dec 2018 #13
Post removed Post removed Dec 2018 #14
.. progree Dec 2018 #18
Good call! marble falls Dec 2018 #23
Thanks progree Dec 2018 #36
He was being watched every inch of the way. marble falls Dec 2018 #44
No black lives matter members were at the dinner with Putin and Flynn louis c Dec 2018 #19
la la land LiberalLovinLug Dec 2018 #34
With all due respect... louis c Dec 2018 #38
Thank You! Cha Dec 2018 #42
Oh, and here I was trying to prevent you from embarrasing yourself LiberalLovinLug Dec 2018 #49
Ya, I noticed a lot of DUers just jumping at the chance of supporting your position louis c Dec 2018 #55
You come to DU to "exchange ideas"? and then proceed to block someone who exchanges different ideas LiberalLovinLug Dec 2018 #56
By defending the Lying Ratfucker, 3rd party jill stein, you Cha Dec 2018 #60
Flynn doesn't speak Russian, Don Jr doesn't speak Russian. RT is not respected by anyone on DU ... marble falls Dec 2018 #45
Well I didn't say "Jill Stein doesn't speak Russian", although I fail to see the humor. LiberalLovinLug Dec 2018 #50
Oh, and by the way, the Green Party has accomplished only 2 things in America... louis c Dec 2018 #21
while I think your comments are spot on, miniimizing the success of Russia's action MiddleClass Dec 2018 #32
My intent was not to minimize the success of Russia's actions LiberalLovinLug Dec 2018 #33
sorry, I first wrote this statement as Jill Stein's success, MiddleClass Dec 2018 #35
NYT reporting Russians targeted African Americans noiretextatique Dec 2018 #9
Heck, David Brock did as much divisive damage than any Russians could dream up. Hassin Bin Sober Dec 2018 #17
Why wouldn't you want people to correct the record and debunk Russian propaganda about the betsuni Dec 2018 #40
you're WRONG. David Brock and Media Matters Cha Dec 2018 #43
Yeah, that's why David Brock felt compelled to apologize for his shitty behavior. Hassin Bin Sober Dec 2018 #48
That's over and done with a long time ago.. he & MediaMatters have more than Cha Dec 2018 #54
Lol. Every subject in this thread is over and done with Hassin Bin Sober Dec 2018 #57
jill stein is still the fucking idiot Cha Dec 2018 #58
. Hassin Bin Sober Dec 2018 #59
I was reporting this about the Detroit and how Trump 1.Won Michigan 2.Won Pennsylvania MiddleClass Dec 2018 #26
Pro-Bernie brigade you mean. betsuni Dec 2018 #39
K & R SunSeeker Dec 2018 #10
Stein pretended to be above it all Moebym Dec 2018 #11
Fuck Jill Stein. tinrobot Dec 2018 #15
Just one ignorant tool.... Hulk Dec 2018 #16
Just being on twitter during this time, most came to this conclusion already. riversedge Dec 2018 #24
What is "New Knowledge"? JackRiddler Dec 2018 #25
researching exactly what, MiddleClass Dec 2018 #27
K&R Scurrilous Dec 2018 #29
No surprise there. Jill Stein was never on our side. MineralMan Dec 2018 #30
It looks like they acted as a megaphone for extreme versions of all grassroots groups or karynnj Dec 2018 #31
Keep digging and I bet there were anti-Jill Stein messages from similar sources. mpcamb Dec 2018 #37
The green party's always been an asset to Republicans. Rizen Dec 2018 #41
And often enough the recipiants of GOP campaigning funds. marble falls Dec 2018 #46
Right. This is among the biggest no-news news of the year. :) Hortensis Dec 2018 #51
I'm not even remotely surprised by this. (nt) Paladin Dec 2018 #53
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