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jmowreader

(50,555 posts)
25. Uhh...not quite
Wed Apr 14, 2021, 03:05 PM
Apr 2021

Before Madoff decided to become a crook, he was an excellent and well-respected financier. The Ponzi wouldn't have pulled in a cent if anyone else would have tried it, because of the nature of the thing.

This is Harry Markopoulos' analysis of Madoff's Ponzi:

https://math.nyu.edu/faculty/avellane/madoffmarkopoulos.pdf

This is what Madoff claims to have done:

He first bought a "basket" of 30 to 35 large-cap stocks. Next, he sold out-of-the-money S&P 500 index call options against the value of the stock basket. Then he bought out-of-the-money S&P 500 index put options to protect the investment. Madoff claimed this would return 12 percent to the investors, which means it was returning 16 percent to him because no one runs hedge funds out of the goodness of their hearts. He also claimed it only lost a little money in four months of its existence, which is strange because there were several crashes in the market while Madoff was running this.

Markopoulos believes Madoff would have needed to earn 20 percent just on his stock selections to make this work, which is the first and biggest problem here: large-cap or "blue chip" stocks do not throw off 20 percent profit per year. They are extremely stable. You can get...oh, two to three percent out of them. If you build your portfolio around the Pink Sheets (penny stocks and foreign companies...both BASF and Bayer trade on the Pinks, and those are exceptionally stable companies - but since they're headquartered in Germany, they have to be traded OTC) you can make 20 percent...but you can ALSO lose 100 percent, and no one is going to throw ten million dollars at you to invest in penny stocks.

Markopoulos points out another huge problem, which is that there aren't enough call and put options in existence to do what Madoff said he was doing. He also points out that Madoff's counterparties are a little weird - Madoff claimed to trade derivatives exclusively through the Union Bank of Switzerland and Merrill Lynch, but the two biggest firms in the derivatives he claimed to use, which he would need to move the amount of derivatives he was supposedly moving, were Goldman, Sachs and Citigroup.

But seriously, the only way this shit would have sold is if a financial titan like Madoff said it worked.

I thought he was pardon by f-face . . . Lovie777 Apr 2021 #1
Why? brooklynite Apr 2021 #4
Not a chance Warpy Apr 2021 #26
Bummer. Hope to read this about trump soon. mountain grammy Apr 2021 #2
Not me, I want to see him have his 100th birthday in jail! KS Toronado Apr 2021 #5
Yeah I'd be good with that too. mountain grammy Apr 2021 #15
What happens when you lie and cheat your way through life is you get wealthy. Hassin Bin Sober Apr 2021 #16
Saddest part of Madoff story bucolic_frolic Apr 2021 #3
Seeing all the breaking news banners... BumRushDaShow Apr 2021 #6
Calling Madoff a financier is like calling Keanu Reeves a pro quarterback. Sibelius Fan Apr 2021 #7
Was gonna say that Johnny Utah blew out his knee in college greenjar_01 Apr 2021 #13
Uhh...not quite jmowreader Apr 2021 #25
His Ponzi scheme started in 1981, maybe earlier. Sibelius Fan Apr 2021 #31
Madoff Investment Securities LLC opened in 1960 jmowreader Apr 2021 #33
Yeap. Xolodno Apr 2021 #32
I'm planning to bury $30k in CDs jmowreader Apr 2021 #34
Another slot has opened up on the list of people who should die in jail... MrModerate Apr 2021 #8
I got a suggestion......(n/m) BradAllison Apr 2021 #19
Guess! murielm99 Apr 2021 #27
He destroyed many lives. Good riddance. niyad Apr 2021 #9
If I Recall - His Family Was Decimated As Well.....nt global1 Apr 2021 #11
One son died of cancer; the other killed himself greenjar_01 Apr 2021 #14
a happy ending ZonkerHarris Apr 2021 #10
Donald Trump take note...We have a new opening with your name on it. Ford_Prefect Apr 2021 #12
He was 82 years old mysteryowl Apr 2021 #17
Oh. OK. DinahMoeHum Apr 2021 #18
He's in a warmer place now. nt eppur_se_muova Apr 2021 #20
Well bless his piece of shit heart Major Nikon Apr 2021 #21
Even his NAME gives me the creeps! How could anyone trust a guy with THAT name? NurseJackie Apr 2021 #22
The only reason he was ever brought to justice is because his victims were super wealthy. tenderfoot Apr 2021 #23
I suppose took with him politruk Apr 2021 #24
Too bad ... he needed to spend years longer in prison, he got out by dying. nt Raine Apr 2021 #28
I just watched a TV show about him two weeks ago BigmanPigman Apr 2021 #29
Too many are vulnerable too-good-to-be-true "insider"... brush Apr 2021 #30
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