Welcome to DU! The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards. Join the community: Create a free account Support DU (and get rid of ads!): Become a Star Member All Forums Issue Forums Culture Forums Alliance Forums Region Forums Support Forums Help & Search

sabrina 1

(62,325 posts)
84. That's the question the whole world is asking 'where are the adults
Wed Nov 21, 2012, 12:52 AM
Nov 2012

over there'? Who is responsible for civilian deaths? The people who drop the bombs where they know there are children. Adults restrain themselves when the lives of innocents are at stake.

The US is responsible shamefully, for hundreds of thousands of civilians deaths and are guilty of war crimes. So they are not to be trusted with civilian lives either. Which is why I said some 'neutral' entity needs to take over and end this tragedy.

How do you feel about Israel ? orpupilofnature57 Nov 2012 #1
Bull-fucking-SHIT! MotherPetrie Nov 2012 #2
Amen to that! railsback Nov 2012 #37
Well, I think JoDog Nov 2012 #135
which Hamas coddling threads please link us to some azurnoir Nov 2012 #146
Haven't seen any of those railsback Nov 2012 #174
Joe u should be living in gaza lsewpershad Nov 2012 #203
So, am I mistaken or is Israel holding Judaism hostage? DetlefK Nov 2012 #133
Israel's gov't is just our badly behaved punk cousin who has to be bailed out again. To point that leveymg Nov 2012 #227
Israel is ethnicly cleansing Palestine because they want the land. Deep13 Nov 2012 #3
Nah, they just want to harvest Palestinian organs and use the blood in matzos. shira Nov 2012 #7
You've spent that nickle already. Deep13 Nov 2012 #100
shira...stop. You're embarassing yourself. Ken Burch Nov 2012 #200
Israel left Gaza and is not claiming the land ProgressiveProfessor Nov 2012 #8
Umm... R. Daneel Olivaw Nov 2012 #154
So why lsewpershad Nov 2012 #205
Do you even hear yourself speaking? holdencaufield Nov 2012 #23
No, I don't talk when I'm typing. Deep13 Nov 2012 #99
Israel has already done that ... holdencaufield Nov 2012 #102
I believe this guy. Deep13 Nov 2012 #107
Very few people go to the Middle East to "find facts" ... holdencaufield Nov 2012 #114
Do you know Dr. Hixson? I do. Deep13 Nov 2012 #195
I believe this guy ... polly7 Nov 2012 #116
It's sad for both peoples ... Fantastic Anarchist Nov 2012 #153
Your perogative, I guess. nt Deep13 Nov 2012 #197
That's not true either. The six day war was a flexing of Israeli muscle. PDJane Nov 2012 #226
Where is Hamas getting their bombs and rockets? Kolesar Nov 2012 #130
When you look at US history did you ever sop to ask where the Colonials R. Daneel Olivaw Nov 2012 #160
So you don't want to talk about it Kolesar Nov 2012 #169
Sounds like you are having the trouble, not me. R. Daneel Olivaw Nov 2012 #179
Behold, the "twitchy leftist" Kolesar Nov 2012 #185
When the colonies during the American Revolution were fighting for their R. Daneel Olivaw Nov 2012 #213
I suspect Iran and Russia. Deep13 Nov 2012 #196
It all goes back to the cold war where Israel was R. Daneel Olivaw Nov 2012 #214
Excellent article - thanks for the link. n/t Raksha Nov 2012 #225
Now that is purely 2naSalit Nov 2012 #206
There are no settlements in Gaza oberliner Nov 2012 #24
Are the people of Gaza free like other normal people in the world, to come sabrina 1 Nov 2012 #30
+1000 great post. N/t cire41 Nov 2012 #38
There are no checkpoints in Gaza oberliner Nov 2012 #43
I am aware of that. But my question, which I should have made more clear sabrina 1 Nov 2012 #51
Gaza borders two countries, Egypt and Israel oberliner Nov 2012 #57
Thank you. I do watch Al Jazeera and other foreign media. I was referring sabrina 1 Nov 2012 #68
Still, the past restrictions Egypt put in place on Gazans leaving and entering Gaza Ken Burch Nov 2012 #219
+1000 great post King_David Nov 2012 #192
And answer to your question concerning Gaza holdencaufield Nov 2012 #85
Thank you! n/t sabrina 1 Nov 2012 #235
Israel is her own worst enemy. Fantastic Anarchist Nov 2012 #161
Israel's actions cause antisemitism? oberliner Nov 2012 #194
And I call Bullshit! Now tell me about the West Bank and what is going on there with teddy51 Nov 2012 #36
It's not Bullshit. It is indisputably factual. oberliner Nov 2012 #45
You people are great at rerouting the subject! I asked about the West Bank, not Gaza. You fuckers teddy51 Nov 2012 #47
You people? oberliner Nov 2012 #60
No, the discussion is not about Gaza the discussion is about Palestine vs Israel and what land teddy51 Nov 2012 #70
You're assuming Hamas can be mollified by negotiations. They're perfectly clear.... shira Nov 2012 #125
It is my understanding Peregrine Nov 2012 #115
ah winner keepers losers pound sand is that it? I see azurnoir Nov 2012 #118
In 1967, Israel attacked. Fantastic Anarchist Nov 2012 #163
Except... Shaktimaan Nov 2012 #261
So then... Shaktimaan Nov 2012 #279
But, but, but, there are no settlements in Gaza. R. Daneel Olivaw Nov 2012 #157
There aren't oberliner Nov 2012 #164
Strange you ignored my question to answer your own. R. Daneel Olivaw Nov 2012 #175
Huh? oberliner Nov 2012 #186
Yes, i'm sure that the giant graphic was just too painful to see and it took forever to load. R. Daneel Olivaw Nov 2012 #198
Hebron is particularly repulsive. Fantastic Anarchist Nov 2012 #162
Why do you think so? Shaktimaan Nov 2012 #281
There's no room. It's about the size of DC, and has damn near twice as many people leveymg Nov 2012 #55
You are wrong oberliner Nov 2012 #59
My larger point is valid. I said it's an overcrowded walled refugee camp that's not worth leveymg Nov 2012 #64
Israel made a trade of sorts azurnoir Nov 2012 #101
It's not overcrowded, it's not a refugee camp, and it's not walled oberliner Nov 2012 #128
You can argue those points with the authors of this report: 2/3 of Gaza are refugees leveymg Nov 2012 #131
Nothing in that report disputes what I have written oberliner Nov 2012 #136
What is the difference between a city with 2/3 refugees and a refugee camp? What is the difference leveymg Nov 2012 #139
Quite a lot actually oberliner Nov 2012 #141
I believe it was Dov Weisglass who infamously called the "disengagement" plan ... Fantastic Anarchist Nov 2012 #165
This is a decades-old effort. Deep13 Nov 2012 #97
Confiscated land OregonProg Nov 2012 #113
Changing definitions and Graphical Lies holdencaufield Nov 2012 #119
It's still theft OregonProg Nov 2012 #123
It's only theft ... holdencaufield Nov 2012 #124
I truly believe that you are either being willfully blind R. Daneel Olivaw Nov 2012 #217
Thanks for posting those maps you guys. 2naSalit Nov 2012 #207
Except... Shaktimaan Nov 2012 #250
Exactly ann--- Nov 2012 #86
Israelis must suck ... holdencaufield Nov 2012 #120
Wow. I love stunning ignorance spewed with righteousness. aquart Nov 2012 #180
Not that long ago, Israel was open to Palestinians. JDPriestly Nov 2012 #232
"Unfortunately, there are those that are so blinded by their hate of Israel". teddy51 Nov 2012 #4
+1000 orpupilofnature57 Nov 2012 #5
There was even more hate prior to Netanyahu during OCL... shira Nov 2012 #6
Sorry, but I see some of you as "Poor me, please feel sorry for me) and forget what we do in teddy51 Nov 2012 #9
Israel made a serious move to peace 7 years ago with the Gaza withdrawal.... shira Nov 2012 #11
Consult Dov Weisglass if it was a move towards peace. Fantastic Anarchist Nov 2012 #168
Opposing the Gaza withdrawal, which you're doing due to Israel's "evil" intent..... shira Nov 2012 #171
I'd like to entertain your straw man ... Fantastic Anarchist Nov 2012 #172
Who cares what he said? Does he force Hamas to fire rockets at Israel.... shira Nov 2012 #176
Tsk, tsk. Fantastic Anarchist Nov 2012 #188
Who cares what he said? Nobody that is apparently falling all over themselves R. Daneel Olivaw Nov 2012 #218
I'm sorry, Shaktimaan Nov 2012 #252
Indeed. eom Purveyor Nov 2012 #25
Intifada 2 .... Fantastic Anarchist Nov 2012 #167
Intifada 2 was the Palestinian response to a fair peace deal... shira Nov 2012 #177
There was no fair peace deal offered. Fantastic Anarchist Nov 2012 #187
What you said. How dare this OP try to use that old and no longer effective sabrina 1 Nov 2012 #32
"that tactic has the exact opposite effect" holdencaufield Nov 2012 #89
That was my point. Thanks for getting it. I doubt making people angry sabrina 1 Nov 2012 #90
You're angry at Israel for not ... holdencaufield Nov 2012 #92
You're not very good at putting words in other people's mouths. sabrina 1 Nov 2012 #121
"What does an oppressed, imprisoned people (Hamas) do to get the rest of the world's attention" shira Nov 2012 #40
A question for you: What did those Turkish people onboard that boat do to warrant there deaths? teddy51 Nov 2012 #42
You mean the IHH? Turkey accused them recently of having ties... shira Nov 2012 #48
And have you listened to Turkey's PM about this event? No, I doubt you have cause everything is teddy51 Nov 2012 #52
The same Turkish PM responsible for far worse WRT Kurds? Syria's Assad shira Nov 2012 #65
"What did those Turkish people onboard that boat do to warrant there deaths?" holdencaufield Nov 2012 #122
Hang on a second. Shaktimaan Nov 2012 #254
And perhaps we do and that is 2naSalit Nov 2012 #210
Which Israeli political figures do you like? oberliner Nov 2012 #46
Not my call, that belongs to the Israeli people. How about a leader that truly wants to make teddy51 Nov 2012 #49
Well you don't like the call they made with Netanyahu (nor do I) oberliner Nov 2012 #61
Like I said, I'm not an Israeli citizen and don't get to vote there or make that call. teddy51 Nov 2012 #66
You get to have an opinion oberliner Nov 2012 #69
Tzipi Livni fits my bill, but what chance does she have? teddy51 Nov 2012 #81
Livni? Here's a headline and story for you... shira Nov 2012 #91
The sad thing is - she won the most votes last time! oberliner Nov 2012 #129
I would like to see the Labor party guy(sorry can't remember his name) Get back in power. hrmjustin Nov 2012 #50
Barak? Peres? n/t shira Nov 2012 #67
Barak. hrmjustin Nov 2012 #71
Really Barak is Israel's current Minister of Defense and the one in charge of this show azurnoir Nov 2012 #96
He works for BIBI.Oh my I should pay more attention. hrmjustin Nov 2012 #98
The sad truth is this when it comes to Palestinians there is little light between azurnoir Nov 2012 #106
Thanks for the good post. hrmjustin Nov 2012 #202
well written, well argued. well done. ChairmanAgnostic Nov 2012 #152
No it isn't... deathrind Nov 2012 #10
The OP is spot on. Hamas rockets provoke a yawn by the haters. shira Nov 2012 #12
I condemn... deathrind Nov 2012 #28
You condemn the rockets but then give the justification for them... shira Nov 2012 #41
The settlement issue... Shaktimaan Nov 2012 #257
it's only 'complex' to those attempting to obfuscate azurnoir Nov 2012 #276
You know what I love? Shaktimaan Nov 2012 #277
know what I luv weasel words and oh the British mandate ended over 65 years ago azurnoir Nov 2012 #282
Well, in the real world... Shaktimaan Nov 2012 #286
yes well we'll just have to wait and see what the ICC/ICU decides huh? azurnoir Nov 2012 #288
Do you mean the ICC or the ICJ (not the ICU?) Shaktimaan Nov 2012 #291
The killing of over 140 Palestinians, more than half of them innocent sabrina 1 Nov 2012 #33
Oh, the "Israel is bloodthirsty" argument? shira Nov 2012 #44
No, I don't think the Israeli people do, but there leaders certainly have no problem with teddy51 Nov 2012 #54
Who do you think carries out the orders of the government? The IDF.... shira Nov 2012 #72
So tell me about the boat that you guys boarded and killed innocent people on then! Your not teddy51 Nov 2012 #87
IHH terrorists who are BFF with Hamas and connected to al-Qaeda.... shira Nov 2012 #88
That's good, keep repeating these absurd statements Alamuti Lotus Nov 2012 #13
So remind me, where were you the past 4 years since OCL... shira Nov 2012 #18
I was here, observing some propaganda troll bot endlessly recite stale talking points Alamuti Lotus Nov 2012 #19
You were quiet. Am I wrong to assume you were quiet.... shira Nov 2012 #22
You would not be correct in assuming anything; you're just not good at it.. *nt Alamuti Lotus Nov 2012 #27
This may sound strange, but do you realize you are not helping Israel's sabrina 1 Nov 2012 #34
"IF" fighters are hiding in civilian neighborhoods? Hamas boasts about it... shira Nov 2012 #62
And I have seen footage of Israelis using Palestinian children as shields sabrina 1 Nov 2012 #73
So going back to your "if" scenario... shira Nov 2012 #75
That's the question the whole world is asking 'where are the adults sabrina 1 Nov 2012 #84
I'm no sure what you think is going on over there. Shaktimaan Nov 2012 #280
shira's mission here is to excuse Palestinian civilian casualties azurnoir Nov 2012 #80
That charge is pretty funny considering your mission here seems to be to demonize shira Nov 2012 #126
Or what evidence is presented to you of Israel's indifference to suffering.... kayecy Nov 2012 #127
"Israel has killed and injured far more innocents than Hamas could dream of." JoDog Nov 2012 #137
Hamas will......Aren't you being a little too presumptious?..... kayecy Nov 2012 #138
Hamas refuses to recognize Israel JoDog Nov 2012 #145
Hamas' sworn intent to kill the Jews is irrelevant to the "human rights community" shira Nov 2012 #166
You are repeating yourself.............. kayecy Nov 2012 #173
Untrue... Shaktimaan Nov 2012 #258
With the weapons they had....... kayecy Nov 2012 #268
Incorrect. Shaktimaan Nov 2012 #271
Do all Israeli cities contain nothing but civilians?........ kayecy Nov 2012 #273
Why are you playing devil's advocate for Hamas? Shaktimaan Nov 2012 #278
The devil's advocate or someone who can see there are two sides?.... kayecy Nov 2012 #285
The devil's advocate. Shaktimaan Nov 2012 #287
I would very much like to hear your “strong ethical argument” favouring Palestine over the US...... kayecy Nov 2012 #289
You'll get it then. Shaktimaan Nov 2012 #290
"BACK" to Palestine?.....That's not an ethical argument........... kayecy Nov 2012 #292
OK, I see what you're saying. Shaktimaan Nov 2012 #293
Thank you for considering each of my points in detail, but........ kayecy Nov 2012 #294
My ethical argument... Shaktimaan Nov 2012 #296
For the same reason that the US, Argentina or Australia would have rejected it........ kayecy Nov 2012 #298
Pot, meet kettle. Democracyinkind Nov 2012 #134
no because you've shown nothing but hearsay and opinion I originally asked for evidence charges from azurnoir Nov 2012 #143
I quoted B'tselem and you ignored them... shira Nov 2012 #159
No you did not quote B'tselem you claimed that and you were busted which is why no link azurnoir Nov 2012 #183
Btselem's quotes that you're ignoring/denying are right here at these links... shira Nov 2012 #190
Big difference. Shaktimaan Nov 2012 #259
Ah did you trot that stuff back out -again azurnoir Nov 2012 #74
Pretty sick defending Hamas' use of shields. shira Nov 2012 #76
I have questioned MEMRI more than once and that very same video within the past 24hrs azurnoir Nov 2012 #82
What makes you think the translation in this video is misleading? A hunch? n/t shira Nov 2012 #94
no MEMRI's record of biased translation coupled with Israeles propaganda program to make azurnoir Nov 2012 #104
Do you distinguish between ... 1StrongBlackMan Nov 2012 #14
This isn't about the people vs. their government. shira Nov 2012 #16
My question has everything to with "The People" versus "their Government" ... 1StrongBlackMan Nov 2012 #140
BTW ... 1StrongBlackMan Nov 2012 #15
Over 90% of Israel's Jews agree with the military operation. shira Nov 2012 #17
You sound so proud about that. ...nt TeeYiYi Nov 2012 #31
It's b/c they really feel there is no other choice. n/t shira Nov 2012 #77
That is very sad if true. I was giving the Israeli people a pass on these sabrina 1 Nov 2012 #35
The Israeli people aren't in favor of attacking women and children shira Nov 2012 #78
You can't say 'we are not in favor of killing women and children' when sabrina 1 Nov 2012 #93
So your solution meanwhile is for Israelis to lie back, enjoy the rockets... shira Nov 2012 #95
'Relax, the rocket fell on an Arab village' azurnoir Nov 2012 #242
Wow, disgusting comment, seriously. sabrina 1 Nov 2012 #272
true that but it was an Israeli government radio announcer who said it n/t azurnoir Nov 2012 #274
Terrible logic ForgoTheConsequence Nov 2012 #39
Your néed to respond to every post makes you look mentally unstable abelenkpe Nov 2012 #56
".. the Jewish State, alone amongst the nations of the world" OneMoreDemocrat Nov 2012 #20
Absolutely ! Anything that keeps Israel from stealing...er jaysunb Nov 2012 #21
Fail. Care to try another? eom Purveyor Nov 2012 #26
If I was an Iranian Cynicus Emeritus Nov 2012 #29
After witnessing our invasion and decimation of Iraq, with israeli encouragement, why the hell Purveyor Nov 2012 #53
Israel had nothing to do with our invasion of Iraq. There were a lot of countries who supported still_one Nov 2012 #110
Israel To U.S. Don't Delay Iraq Attack, Sharon Government Urges Prompt Action Against Saddam - CBS Purveyor Nov 2012 #142
My point was the U.S. was doing regardless, and other western countries did the same bullshit. It still_one Nov 2012 #144
My statement was clear. I said "with israeli encouragement". eom Purveyor Nov 2012 #147
They did not do it because of their encouragement or any other countries encouragement. They did it still_one Nov 2012 #148
We shall just have to disagree then. eom Purveyor Nov 2012 #149
ok. still_one Nov 2012 #191
Indeed nt abelenkpe Nov 2012 #58
FWIW: The jury results are in. aikoaiko Nov 2012 #63
Bullshit. n/t Ed Suspicious Nov 2012 #79
No, it isn't ann--- Nov 2012 #83
How about strong Israel dislike? defacto7 Nov 2012 #103
I don't hate Israel. roody Nov 2012 #105
Israel is a terrorist nation! leftlibdem420 Nov 2012 #108
Bullshit. The argument might be made that the US did, but not Israel, but while you are at it why still_one Nov 2012 #112
Not true about Egypt. LeftishBrit Nov 2012 #221
suit yourself. n/t Lil Missy Nov 2012 #109
The OP is a load of bunk.. GitRDun Nov 2012 #111
No it is not! intaglio Nov 2012 #117
Genius marketing ploy of an immoral regime Democracyinkind Nov 2012 #132
It's somewhat Stalinesque, isn't it? Fantastic Anarchist Nov 2012 #158
Israelis and Palestinians are both Semetic peoples. R. Daneel Olivaw Nov 2012 #150
Yes, because the mightiest state in the Middle East is a poor victim. Fantastic Anarchist Nov 2012 #151
So let's say a chunk of Mexico (or Canada) is given to terrorists who launch rockets to the USA PuppyBismark Nov 2012 #155
Learn the history, puppy. Fantastic Anarchist Nov 2012 #156
Criticism of Israel is not anti-Semitism. Spider Jerusalem Nov 2012 #170
So the UN partition means nothing. aquart Nov 2012 #182
I didn't say that Spider Jerusalem Nov 2012 #184
Agreed. LeftishBrit Nov 2012 #222
Good luck getting them to admit it. aquart Nov 2012 #178
Not true. I am anti Zionist right wing crazy Israelis, I am not anti Israel or an anti-Semitic. OregonBlue Nov 2012 #181
another article from the same 'progressivezionist' site azurnoir Nov 2012 #189
Post removed Post removed Nov 2012 #193
That's right...this so-called "progressive" magazine says that anyone who is Israeli or Jewish Ken Burch Nov 2012 #201
Disagreement with Israeli security policies is NOT "Israel hate". Ken Burch Nov 2012 #199
Is Paestinian Hate Anti-Semitic? AnotherMcIntosh Nov 2012 #204
Is Palestinian Hate Anti-Semitic? Nope... King_David Nov 2012 #208
If hostility against Jews and Jewish organization is anti-semitic, what do you call Jewish AnotherMcIntosh Nov 2012 #209
an·ti-Sem·ite (nt-smt, nt-) King_David Nov 2012 #211
You do realize not every organization that advocate for Palestinian rights in Palestine.. King_David Nov 2012 #212
You have it wrong. In contrast to you, I have never claimed that any organization that advocates AnotherMcIntosh Nov 2012 #215
The term anti semite applies to Jews. King_David Nov 2012 #216
I saw this the other day, kinda interesting Mosby Nov 2012 #224
Yes I agree, King_David Nov 2012 #231
It is disingenuous and used to "deflect" from the discrimination against Jews. Behind the Aegis Nov 2012 #233
Arabs are Semites. R. Daneel Olivaw Nov 2012 #240
Are you going to argue that anti-Semitism is discrimination against Arabs? Behind the Aegis Nov 2012 #241
Language is fluid, and definitions change with time, usage and cultural reference. R. Daneel Olivaw Nov 2012 #243
As BTA said only some people 'usually deflecting from "Jew hatred" King_David Nov 2012 #244
Hmmm. Ain't gonna happen. Check any dictionary. R. Daneel Olivaw Nov 2012 #245
I studied languages for years. Behind the Aegis Nov 2012 #246
It appears as if you do need a lesson in fluidity; R. Daneel Olivaw Nov 2012 #247
No, I really don't and especially not from you. Behind the Aegis Nov 2012 #248
Seemingly you still do. And if you don't want to read it then put me on ignore. R. Daneel Olivaw Nov 2012 #249
No, I really don't, but you certainly need some. Behind the Aegis Nov 2012 #251
As I said, you can always put me on ignore and dig your heels in to the end of time. R. Daneel Olivaw Nov 2012 #255
And if you want to play word games, you will get called on it again and again. Behind the Aegis Nov 2012 #256
I thought that you and your provincialism were going away. R. Daneel Olivaw Nov 2012 #263
But this word is not one of them. Shaktimaan Nov 2012 #283
No; but it could be Islamophobic LeftishBrit Nov 2012 #223
"a term coined by antisemites"? Actually, the German-Jewish scholar Moritz Steinschneider in AnotherMcIntosh Nov 2012 #234
True about not all Palestinians being Muslims (and not all Israelis are Jews).. LeftishBrit Nov 2012 #236
I have no idea as to whether Marr popularized the term. I know that many now use the term to AnotherMcIntosh Nov 2012 #238
spreading that bigotry out among multiple terms that way it's harder to pin down azurnoir Nov 2012 #253
Maybe check out this excellent post to help you with your confusion, King_David Nov 2012 #237
there is no confusion and there is no denial of bigotry against Jews either azurnoir Nov 2012 #260
Nothing's changed King_David Nov 2012 #262
King D stomps his foot in proclamation. "Nothing's changed!" R. Daneel Olivaw Nov 2012 #264
This is a tired and boring argument. King_David Nov 2012 #269
Well, you're free to go away then and dig your heels in someplace else. R. Daneel Olivaw Nov 2012 #270
everything changes n/t azurnoir Nov 2012 #275
Wrong. Hayabusa Nov 2012 #220
Actuallyl . . . last I checked, mzteris Nov 2012 #228
I love my Jewish friends Xipe Totec Nov 2012 #229
Awful, awful argument LibAsHell Nov 2012 #230
my thoughts exactly dlwickham Nov 2012 #239
Does criticism of Israel = Israel hate to you? R. Daneel Olivaw Nov 2012 #265
It's sad. polly7 Nov 2012 #266
It's become an easy song and dance to perform to shut up R. Daneel Olivaw Nov 2012 #267
Did you notice how no one answered your original question? KimonoGirl Nov 2012 #297
Horse shit. Hating a government's actions doesn't equal hating its people TeamsterDem Nov 2012 #284
Lovely straw man argument... I think the leaders screw up, so I must be a Nazi... bobclark86 Nov 2012 #295
Latest Discussions»Issue Forums»Israel/Palestine»Israel Hate is Anti-Semit...»Reply #84