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Jefferson23

(30,099 posts)
70. I already addressed Ki-moon's statements..you don't like what I said, too bad.
Sun Jan 29, 2012, 03:03 PM
Jan 2012

You seem to think if you repeat over and over to the person you disagree with
to admit what you want them to, they will at some point submit to you...you're
mistaken.

lol@ whining and crying about Goldstone's recant..you're amusing in a desperate
vein shira.

I think it is important for anyone who supports Israeli policy regarding the Palestinians
especially about OCL, is to understand they decided not to cooperate with the human rights
groups and made the decision about controlling a free press. Mr Bernstein expresses no concerns
for this behavior that I am aware of.

Israel ranks low for freedom of press, after Gaza war media ban
Israel falls to No. 93 of 175 countries indexed in 2009; Iran places No. 172, in wake of post-election violence.
http://www.haaretz.com/news/israel-ranks-low-for-freedom-of-press-after-gaza-war-media-ban-1.5765

Mr. Bernstein is a trusted source for you, but his words don't match up his
claims..which he pretty much admits, but does so in an unprofessional manner.


David Bernstein Misrepresents Human Rights Watch (Yet Again)

by Kevin Jon Heller

This time concerning the Goldstone Report and whether Israel intentionally targeted civilians during Operation Cast Lead as a matter of policy. You know a post is in trouble when it’s entitled “Human Rights Watch Lies re: Goldstone Retraction,” but then states, three paragraphs later, “Well, maybe lying isn’t quite right. Roth chose his words carefully, and I suppose it’s technically true that HRW never explicitly endorsed a Goldstone Report finding that Israel had a policy of targeting civilians.” So HRW is lying, except that it’s not.

The misleading title, however, is far from the biggest problem with the post. Even worse is Bernstein’s inability to understand what Goldstone retracted and what HRW has said about Israel’s ostensible policy of intentionally targeting civilians. Here is the relevant paragraph from Goldstone’s editorial (emphasis added):
http://opiniojuris.org/2011/04/06/david-bernstein-misrepresents-human-rights-watch-yet-again/


Mr. Roth in his own words, Gaza: the stain remains on Israel's war record 2011

Richard Goldstone's partial retraction of his own report doesn't excuse the conduct of Israel's war in Gaza
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2011/apr/05/gaza-stain-remains-israel-war-record


If you actually read the Goldstone report it never stated or implied that the main
objective of Israel's attack was to murder Palestinians. If the report came to that
conclusion they would have labeled it genocide..it did no such thing.

The report did say that the invasion of Gaza was a "deliberately
disproportionate attack designed to punish, humiliate and terrorize a
civilian population.
http://www2.ohchr.org/english/bodies/hrcouncil/specialsession/9/factfindingmission.htm

Yoram Dinstein on international law: there is no genuine difference between a
premeditated attack against civilians ( or civilian objects) and a reckless disregard
of the principle of distinction between civilians or civilian objects and combatants
or military objects...they're equally forbidden.( Law of International Armed Conflict.)

Among other players and reports, Ms.Livni for one, provided statements reflecting
her thoughts on OCL.

Speaking at an Institute for National Security Studies conference, Livni said that "the operation in Gaza was necessary. Operation Cast Lead achieved its goal, which was to restore Israel's deterrence ability, and managed to restore Israel's deterrence ability.
She also said that she was proud of the achievements of Operation Cast Lead.
http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3820134,00.html

Ms Livni declared yesterday that the military offensive had "restored Israel's deterrence ... Hamas now understands that when you fire on its citizens it responds by going wild – and this is a good thing."
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/israeli-cabinet-divided-over-fresh-gaza-surge-1332024.html

Her regard for the law:

snip* This is a main principle. Part of the TOR. This is what will make the Arab states come.



[Recap the points.]



AA:

International law?



TL:

NO. I was the Minister of Justice. I am a lawyer…But I am against law -- international law in particular. Law in general.
If we want to make the agreement smaller, can we just drop some of these issues? Like international law, this will make the agreements easier.



[TL made the point that Palestinians don’t really need international law. Palestinians protest this assertion. AA raises examples of where it is important, such as water, and that it is key for the parties to agree what the permanent status agreements will be based on. Abr says that the agreement will be whatever is agreed at the table. At one point during this discussion, SE raises a problem with the “as adopted” language with respect to the Roadmap and previous agreements, noting that this would encompass the Israeli reservations which is not acceptable to the Palestinian side.]
http://transparency.aljazeera.net/document/2003


Have a good day and good luck.


on edit for clarity.

The Palestinian children – alone and bewildered – in Israel's Al Jalame jail Violet_Crumble Jan 2012 #1
Shackled, and this from the beacon of democracy in the ME. Jefferson23 Jan 2012 #3
Guardian Report Misses the Real Child Abuse – 2 shira Jan 2012 #4
Documentation goes back many years. Jefferson23 Jan 2012 #6
Yeah, but that's all been trumped by the compelling arguments put forward.... Violet_Crumble Jan 2012 #7
You're missing the point. The source for these questionable claims is an organization... shira Jan 2012 #8
Nah, that'd fall under point #2.... Violet_Crumble Jan 2012 #11
So you have no problem with known terrorists sitting on the board... shira Jan 2012 #15
Yr insisting that the claims of mistreatment of children aren't true. Try supporting that argument.. Violet_Crumble Jan 2012 #16
Not at all. The real issue here is the propping up of fake human rights organizations... shira Jan 2012 #20
The Israeli government saw it that way..no other human rights group agreed. Jefferson23 Jan 2012 #21
So Jabarin is a former Jew hater who has renounced his antisemitism... shira Jan 2012 #23
You prefer to write your questions in the affirmative as if the charge Jefferson23 Jan 2012 #25
There's no question Jabarin once headed the PFLP.... shira Jan 2012 #30
What you ignore is the pertinent information about the Israeli Court. Jefferson23 Jan 2012 #37
Jabarin's organization is quoted as stating terror (resistance) is legitimate under Int'l Law... shira Jan 2012 #38
Again you presume he was found guilty Jefferson23 Jan 2012 #39
No, I'm now going only by that quote that legitimizes terror... shira Jan 2012 #40
What quote? n/t Jefferson23 Jan 2012 #41
Here it is... shira Jan 2012 #46
Seriously, read your own material closer next time. Jefferson23 Jan 2012 #47
It's not just that quote. Jabarin's Al-Haq rarely condemns terror attacks on Israeli civilians... shira Jan 2012 #50
You're a regualar riot Alice. n/t Jefferson23 Jan 2012 #51
So despite the above, you really believe shira Jan 2012 #52
I don't expect you to do anything but adhere to the Israeli government line. Jefferson23 Jan 2012 #53
So you can't defend Jabarin for his inhumane worldview... shira Jan 2012 #54
He doesn't have an inhumane worldview, Jefferson23 Jan 2012 #55
Right. It's humane to look the other way and virtually ignore... shira Jan 2012 #56
I get it, you hate them..ALL of the human rights groups. n/t Jefferson23 Jan 2012 #57
No, I get that you have little regard for human rights... shira Jan 2012 #58
You do have respect for those human rights group? Jefferson23 Jan 2012 #59
Respect for human rights in general is not the same as respect... shira Jan 2012 #60
All those human rights groups you hate have an excellent Jefferson23 Jan 2012 #61
Wow, I was right. You can't even criticize the UNHRC... shira Jan 2012 #62
Do you EVER read what you post? Jefferson23 Jan 2012 #63
Oh, the main concern for you is not that other nations are ignored by the UNHRC... shira Jan 2012 #64
No. Jefferson23 Jan 2012 #65
So you don't believe Annan and Ban WRT the UNHRC focusing on Israel.... shira Jan 2012 #66
It may be lost to you that Obama does not hold the view you do Jefferson23 Jan 2012 #67
You're still ignoring the obvious.....why? I'll remind you again... shira Jan 2012 #69
I already addressed Ki-moon's statements..you don't like what I said, too bad. Jefferson23 Jan 2012 #70
You ignored both Annan and Moon... shira Jan 2012 #71
I answered your questions shira, you don't agree with what Jefferson23 Jan 2012 #72
You answered with more obfuscation. That doesn't equate to answering direct... shira Jan 2012 #73
shira the document you claim AI has removed (huge link)is easily availible on their website azurnoir Jan 2012 #74
Oh good! I googled the quote and only found it in PDF form with a quick view option... shira Jan 2012 #75
really you need to read what AI said azurnoir Jan 2012 #76
No, the real issue here is the mistreatment of Palestinian children in Israeli prisons... Violet_Crumble Jan 2012 #27
When apologists for Jew hating murderers claim anything against Israel, it's suspect... shira Jan 2012 #31
So you don't actually have anything at all to back up yr claims that kids aren't being mistreated... Violet_Crumble Jan 2012 #34
There is a simple test to determine if you're a humanitarian racist, don't ya know this Violet? Jefferson23 Jan 2012 #10
OMG. I thought that was some sort of parody when I first read it.... Violet_Crumble Jan 2012 #13
I found his question so up in the air, for one..he doesn't Jefferson23 Jan 2012 #18
What's wrong with the 3rd question? shira Jan 2012 #14
It's engaging in negative stereotyping of an entire people, that's what's wrong with it... Violet_Crumble Jan 2012 #17
That third question isn't negative stereotyping an entire people... shira Jan 2012 #19
Yes, it is. It would be if it was aimed at Israelis, and it's the same when aimed at Palestinians... Violet_Crumble Jan 2012 #28
The PLO says resistance (the murdering of Jews) is legitimate... shira Jan 2012 #33
Complete and utter bullshit. The PLO does NOT say the murdering of Jews is legitimate.... Violet_Crumble Jan 2012 #35
Yeah, actually they do. They just call it legitimate "resistance" instead of... shira Jan 2012 #36
No, actually they don't say it at all. You falsely claim they say it... Violet_Crumble Jan 2012 #48
How many examples do you require in order to see that they really do say it? shira Jan 2012 #49
All I've seen so far is yr opinion, based on the opinions of zealoted American 'pro-Israel' groups.. Violet_Crumble Jan 2012 #68
Where and how often have you exposed the profoundly murderous ( Islamaphobic) worldview Jefferson23 Jan 2012 #22
That's a moronic comparison. You don't think there's a significant.... shira Jan 2012 #24
Your response is very interesting and likely explains why you posted the OP in the first place. n/t Jefferson23 Jan 2012 #26
Yep. The double standards are mind boggling n/t Violet_Crumble Jan 2012 #29
So you're denying murderous antisemitism is a significant problem in the Palestinian territories? shira Jan 2012 #32
Guardian's Israel correspondent promotes agenda of radical anti-Israel NGO shira Jan 2012 #5
+1. bemildred Jan 2012 #2
seems Palestinian children are less so tha others to some here azurnoir Jan 2012 #9
Cell 36: Palestinian children locked in solitary confinement in Israel - video Violet_Crumble Jan 2012 #12
15 Jan. '12: Judge holds confession of Palestinian minor admissible, although it was obtained Jefferson23 Jan 2012 #42
so confessions 'coerced ' from Palestinian minors (chilldren) are okay in Israel azurnoir Jan 2012 #43
It's all blown out of proportion...don't you realize this?? Jefferson23 Jan 2012 #44
short answer nobody long answer azurnoir Jan 2012 #45
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