Welcome to DU! The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards. Join the community: Create a free account Support DU (and get rid of ads!): Become a Star Member Latest Breaking News General Discussion The DU Lounge All Forums Issue Forums Culture Forums Alliance Forums Region Forums Support Forums Help & Search

Gun Control & RKBA

Showing Original Post only (View all)
 

Shamash

(597 posts)
Thu Jun 4, 2015, 09:10 AM Jun 2015

Questions for gun control advocates, part 1 [View all]

Answers should be intelligent, rational, liberal, consistently applied and supportable by objective data if required. Please label your comment with the number of the question you are responding to. Feel free to link to this post if you need someone to answer one of the questions in a different comment thread. If the moderator for the RKBA group thinks this is worth permalinking, by all means do so.

Note: It is assumed that your answer represents the maximum level of intelligence, knowledge and common sense you can bring to bear on the subject.
[hr]
#1
This is a picture of an M1 carbine, a magazine-fed semi-auto rifle capable of using high-capacity magazines, which can be had with a folding stock, bayonet lug, pistol grip and flash hider, making it by all popular definitions an “assault rifle". It has been available to civilians since 1945, and required no background check or license or even ID to purchase in an era (circa 1950) where the per capita firearm murder rate was the same or lower than it is today (circa 2010).

Question: If you feel that this sort of weapon should be banned, list all other technologies freely available to civilians with no restriction in 1945 that you deem too dangerous to be allowed for any civilian to own today, despite there being no evidence of increased harm due to the civilian ownership of that technology?
[hr]
#2
Magazine limits are a popular topic for gun control advocates, but there is far from universal agreement on what a proper limit should be and why. New York’s SAFE Act had a 7-round limit, Connecticut’s Act Concerning Gun Violence Prevention and Children’s Safety had a 10-round limit, while Colorado has a 15-round limit.

Question: If you think there is a specific value appropriate for a magazine limit, can you explain why X shots held is a reasonable limit and X+1 should be a crime? In addition, since opinions on this vary, explain how gun control advocates with different values of X from yours are either too lenient (allowing in your opinion a criminally dangerous level of ammunition) or too restrictive (criminalizing what you feel is a reasonable level of ammunition).
[hr]
#3
The NRA has an annual revenue of 348 million dollars (2013) (for comparison, Goldman-Sachs had a revenue in 2014 of 40 billion dollars). Of this 348 million dollars in yearly NRA revenue, approximately 15 million dollars (less than 5%) comes from firearm manufacturers and dealers (assuming the linked figures from the Violence Policy Center are accurate and evenly divided over the 6 year period listed), a figure which includes both direct contributions from industry and indirect contributions like advertising in NRA publications.

link
link

Question: To what extent is the NRA "funded by the gun industry” and if you have commented in the past on NRA funding sources, have your comments been accurate?
[hr]
#4
Here are some fatality rates per 100,000 people at risk in that category:

boy’s softball: 2.89 fatalities per 100,000 players
boy’s water polo: 1.06 fatalities per 100,000 players
boy’s gymnastics: .95 fatalities per 100,000 players
boy’s football: .81 fatalities per 100,000 players
boy’s lacrosse: .80 fatalities per 100,000 players
boy’s basketball: .76 fatalities per 100,000 players
boy’s ice hockey: .48 fatalities per 100,000 players
boy’s soccer: .45 fatalities per 100,000 players
boy’s high school cross-country: .36 fatalities per 100,000 players
firearm accidents, all children,: .15 fatalities per 100,000 children
ages 5 through 19

link
link

Question: For any group of 100,000 boys, which is more likely to result in a fatal accident, having a gun in the house or letting them play school sports?
[hr]
#5
This is a picture of a Browning Longtrac Hunter, a rifle with a 3-shot removable magazine, that costs about $2000.



This is a picture of the Hammerli SP 20, an Olympic-grade (as in “actually used by Olympic competitors&quot target pistol in the world’s least powerful caliber (.22 rimfire), with a 5-shot removable magazine, that has a base price of about $2000.



No company in the world makes high-capacity magazines or any military-type accessory for either of these weapons. However, according to the Connecticut Act Concerning Gun Violence Prevention and Children’s Safety, both of these are currently “assault weapons” (as defined in section 53-202) whose unauthorized sale in Connecticut is a Class C felony meriting a mandatory minimum jail sentence of two years.

link
link
link

Question: Do you feel that the definition of “assault weapon” under Connecticut law was made intelligently and with due consideration of what an “assault weapon” actually is? Explain why or why not.
[hr]
#6
In the Gallup poll for May 6, 2015 on the question of “What do you think is the most important problem facing this country today?”, guns were not in the top 30 items, and were considered less than one-tenth as important as terrorism, healthcare or immigration. Since 1990, the percentage of people who think gun laws should be made more strict has dropped by a third, and in that same period the number of people who think gun laws should be made less strict has doubled.


link

Question: Is the American public clamoring for stricter gun control? Explain why or why not.
[hr]
#7
A stranger calls you on the phone and asks if you have in your home a specific type of easily portable item with a high black market value.



Question: How do you answer, and does this answer reflect your prior statements about the significance of telephone polls about how many people own firearms?
[hr]
#8
Gallup polling a week after the failed Senate vote for universal background checks (2013) showed that 65% of the public wanted the background checks to pass. Gallup polling in 2004 showed that 64% of people did not want marijuana to be legalized. Gallup polling in 1996 showed that 68% of people did not want same sex marriages to be legal. Gallup polling in 1978 showed that 64% of the public did not want mixed race marriages to be legal.

link

link

link

Question: Should public opinion be considered as a valid measure for promoting the merits of restricting the conduct of individuals whose behavior you disapprove of but who are not actually doing anything harmful?
[hr]
#9
Individuals in a society have rights and privileges. The Supreme Court, the Democratic Party platform and President Obama have stated that firearms ownership is a “right”, and thus has the legal standing of anything else held as a “right”. Things that are held as rights by either the Constitution or Supreme Court decision:

• a woman’s reproductive choice
• voting
• trial by jury
• free speech
• privacy
• firearm ownership

Question: Is something legally defined as a "right" one which you must affirmatively prove you have a "need" for to a potentially adversarial bureaucracy before you are allowed to exercise it? And does your answer reflect a standard you would trust a conservative-led government with?
[hr]
#10
According to FBI statistics, the least likely type of firearm murder is a mass murder, the least likely type of shooting incident is one in which 10 or more shots are fired and the least likely type of firearm to be used in a murder is a rifle.

Question: If you wanted to enact firearm bans or restrictions statistically guaranteed to have the smallest possible effect in curtailing firearm murders, what type of firearm(s) would you insist on banning or restricting? How does this answer correlate with your own stated views on what should be banned or restricted?

90 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
Question: why do all the questions assume a deadly, mobile, concealable WMD is a fluffy toy? Unneeded gun ownership is terrorism. Fred Sanders Jun 2015 #1
Readers, see note at top of post and infer appropriately Shamash Jun 2015 #2
The inference says volumes about cartoon scrapers/Third Way® apologists... friendly_iconoclast Jun 2015 #15
We ain't in Canada, Fred, GGJohn Jun 2015 #4
What about Canada? gejohnston Jun 2015 #7
Why won't those guns just stop killing people? ileus Jun 2015 #10
"Unneeded gun ownership is terrorism." Nuclear Unicorn Jun 2015 #13
Reposting cartoons, while insulting others, is easy. Answering questions is hard friendly_iconoclast Jun 2015 #16
Well ... Straw Man Jun 2015 #17
"WMD" Lizzie Poppet Jun 2015 #44
Excellent post! Omnith Jun 2015 #3
I am puzzled upaloopa Jun 2015 #5
The point is two-fold Shamash Jun 2015 #8
It is like a push poll upaloopa Jun 2015 #12
How so? Shamash Jun 2015 #14
"It is like a push poll." NO. It is NOT. NT pablo_marmol Jun 2015 #20
Actually, I do not feel that it's good enough to be called a push-poll rock Jun 2015 #27
Since I'm always interested in self-improvement Shamash Jun 2015 #35
Well I'll try at least in part to answer you rock Jun 2015 #40
That premise is simple Shamash Jun 2015 #46
I do not except your premise rock Jun 2015 #49
I wish to save lives as well Shamash Jun 2015 #52
"I want to save people's lives........." pablo_marmol Jun 2015 #62
"I do not believe we can arrive at a mutually agreed upon viewpoint." pablo_marmol Jun 2015 #63
If saving lives is the objective let's look at the facts. Nuclear Unicorn Jun 2015 #66
Please don't tell me ... Straw Man Jun 2015 #18
To upaloopa's credit Shamash Jun 2015 #22
"Sorry but I see your post as a self serving trap." pablo_marmol Jun 2015 #21
Very good thread. GGJohn Jun 2015 #6
244 posts....you're gonna be labeled a Rand Paul loving gun troll. ileus Jun 2015 #9
I've been called a lot of things Shamash Jun 2015 #11
Outstanding post Shamash. I expect you'll be getting nothing but dodges and slurs, though. pablo_marmol Jun 2015 #19
He's not even managing the normal troll posts on this one....remarkable. ileus Jun 2015 #23
I wonder if it shouldn't be retitled. beevul Jun 2015 #24
I guess they'll have to speak up. krispos42 Jun 2015 #25
So let's hear your answers to those questions rock Jun 2015 #26
Not necessary in my case, since I am not a gun control advocate Shamash Jun 2015 #29
Just me Comatose Sphagetti Jun 2015 #28
Sure, I wouldn't have a problem with it. GGJohn Jun 2015 #30
Have never been thrust into that situation before. Comatose Sphagetti Jun 2015 #37
You do have the right to not have firearms in your home, GGJohn Jun 2015 #41
yes, very true Duckhunter935 Jun 2015 #51
I'd be comfortable with it Shamash Jun 2015 #31
Or... Comatose Sphagetti Jun 2015 #34
I understand your discomfort Shamash Jun 2015 #38
Thanks for understanding my discomfort. Comatose Sphagetti Jun 2015 #39
Discomfort is not a reason for regulation, though Shamash Jun 2015 #47
I would have no issues with it Duckhunter935 Jun 2015 #50
Just me Comatose Sphagetti Jun 2015 #32
Yes I do find that strange and stupid. GGJohn Jun 2015 #33
he needs to read this book gejohnston Jun 2015 #43
Just me Comatose Sphagetti Jun 2015 #36
some people have too many shoes gejohnston Jun 2015 #42
Just curious........... pablo_marmol Jun 2015 #45
Agreed Shamash Jun 2015 #48
#1's false premises jimmy the one Jun 2015 #53
You've never been long on logic or intelligence Shamash Jun 2015 #57
not quite right, shamash, not right at all jimmy the one Jun 2015 #60
#4, specious reasoning exposed jimmy the one Jun 2015 #54
specious casuistry jimmy the one Jun 2015 #55
"The 2nd amendment was a right all right, to serve in a militia." beevul Jun 2015 #56
beev peeved jimmy the one Jun 2015 #61
heimlich maneuver needed, quick jimmy the one Jun 2015 #70
You think you're being cute and sharp witted, GGJohn Jun 2015 #71
my right to self defense, against slurs jimmy the one Jun 2015 #77
The individual right was to keep and bear arms sarisataka Jun 2015 #78
2ndA obsolete & worthless jimmy the one Jun 2015 #81
It still restricts government. beevul Jun 2015 #84
Amendments do not become obsolete... sarisataka Jun 2015 #88
intractables jimmy the one Jun 2015 #89
"(S)ubjective gibberish"? I'll gladly stipulate your expertise on the subject... friendly_iconoclast Jun 2015 #90
Just for you, james. beevul Jun 2015 #79
most firearms belonged to british 1775 jimmy the one Jun 2015 #82
What a joke. beevul Jun 2015 #83
where it all began jimmy the one Jun 2015 #85
Heres where your problem lies james. beevul Jun 2015 #86
For once I have to agree with you sarisataka Jun 2015 #73
More lack of logic on your part Shamash Jun 2015 #58
shamash's sham jimmy the one Jun 2015 #59
The militia argument again? Nuclear Unicorn Jun 2015 #64
Don't hold your breath ... DonP Jun 2015 #67
the unorganized donP jimmy the one Jun 2015 #68
As usual - ignorance on the half shell DonP Jun 2015 #69
emerson miller catalysts jimmy the one Jun 2015 #72
"Now provide one..." Consider the word 'moot', James. friendly_iconoclast Jun 2015 #74
Ain't it interesting how they cling to obsolete interpretations? DonP Jun 2015 #76
Does anyone even post over there anymore? Duckhunter935 Jun 2015 #80
Apparently. beevul Jun 2015 #87
The 2A protects a individual right according to the Democratic Party platform hack89 Jun 2015 #65
Some Palin-level 'legal scholars' seem to have a problem with that... friendly_iconoclast Jun 2015 #75
Latest Discussions»Issue Forums»Gun Control & RKBA»Questions for gun control...»Reply #0