HomeLatest ThreadsGreatest ThreadsForums & GroupsMy SubscriptionsMy Posts
DU Home » Latest Threads » Forums & Groups » Topics » Race & Ethnicity » African American (Group) » I only get into trouble o... » Reply #292

Response to 1StrongBlackMan (Reply #287)

Mon Jul 27, 2015, 02:03 AM

292. we're getting closer.

 

"No. I, actually, don't think you are insane ... but, rather a/the product of being at the political extreme that benefits from being on the outside yelling at those that actually get things done; albeit, slowly and through pragmatic compromise."

First, we aren't the political extreme, that's a common mistake. I could post links to decades of polls that show bipartisan support for progressive ideals among the majority of Americans, but it's not actually necessary. Just listen to the rhetoric of Bill Clinton, Barack Obama, and Hillary Clinton. Look at the campaign promises they made. The lies they tell, are essentially the progressive agenda, with a few caveats and a warning that the other party probably won't let them do it.

Second, how many times does "pragmatic compromise" have to result in the exact opposite of the stated goals of the party before you stop and ask if maybe someone (or everyone) on our side of the negotiating table might have lied about their intentions? Will 30 years be enough? Because if 8 years of Hillary Clinton isn't going to do it, I'm gonna move to...well...any other country in the developed world, any country but Greece, that centrist utopia of compromise and fiscal austerity, I'm gonna move to one of the grown up countries where the extremists have instituted radical programs to provide Health care, education, and economic protections from corporate predators.

I want to experience the wild abandon of the Canadian way of life.
----------
"I largely, agree here, though I see little space between the Democratic candidates on addressing climate change."

I see no difference between the centrist candidates of the democratic/republican partys at all. When you consider the "All of the above" (more fossil fuels please!) Policies of the centrist candidates, there's no hope there. They aren't even bothering to lie anymore.
-----------
"First, the New Deal and the Great Society legislation and regulations remain intact, and the work that unions had been fighting and dying for since the late 1800s has not been wiped away"

OK, a lot to cover.

There's two ways to undo governmental protections. First, repeal or replace a law, as with the Glass-Steagall Act or Personal Responsibility and Work Opportunity Act (welfare "reform", or through stripping agencies of the people who want to enforce regulations and replacing them with industry insiders, as they did with the Securities and Exchange Commission, the EPA, the FDA, and most tragically, the commodity futures trading commission. If you don't know who Brooksley Born is, it's worth your time to look her up.

You understand that the economic crash of 2008 was Clinton's fault right? That Allen Greenspan and his boys engineered it? That it was predicted, in detail, and warned against?

Allen Greenspan's boys of course were Tim Geithner, Larry Summers, and Ben Bernanke. Hmm, why do those names sound so familiar?
----------
Education was a big part of the Great Society, how's that going? Has privatization saved us yet? Did slashing budgets until teachers had to spend the little money they make to by basic supplies for students work? If the goal was educating kids, no. If the intention was breaking unions, and the corporate takeover of education, absolutely yes! Well done centrists.
-----------
The Clinton crime bill. Centrists or progressives?
-----------
It's possible you could have been more wrong about unions. Maybe you were short on time.

You wrote, "That is a bunch of facile bull shit, conspiratorial facile bullshit, at that." Then you say a bunch of things that are easily proven to be untrue. It's a strange time when a democrat uses right-wing talking points to belittle what was once a foundational pillar of the democratic base (some people would have seen the decline of the influence of the unions as dramatic foreshadowing of what was going to happen to the influence of black voters, but that would have required some sense of awareness about the nature of the DLC wing of the party). OK, let's begin.

"The decline in union membership is more traceable to unions' becoming the monster that they were born to fight AND a generation (or more) of narcissistic workers."

Nope. The decline in union membership in the late 50s through the late 60s was the result of the economic boom creating a middle class economy that employed an enormous, expanding number of non-union workers. Most of those were sustained by the high wages of the union workers.

The problem with this system of self sustaining, mutually reinforcing "redistribution of wealth" from those that produce goods to those that provide services is of course that the wealthiest Americans are proportionally less obscenely wealthy. The obvious fix for this problem was for American workers to agree to go back to the gilded age when workers had no rights and would work for starvation wages. The unions objected.

So the factories were closed and reopened in countries that provide such cheap and plentiful labor that they can produce goods, pack them into ships for an intercontinental trip across the Pacific ocean, then drive them across america to sell them at Wal-Mart, (where Hillary Clinton was on the board of directors), and still sell them for less then the the competing small businesses could afford, this left both the union and non-union workers out of work and left them with nothing but multinational corporations with their part-time, minimum wage, no benefit jobs.

With "right to work" laws the unions ARE dying. Meanwhile the labor department saw that a southern senator and governor were interfering with a VW plant in Tennessee where the company and labor were working together to form a works council. They did it by offering 300 million dollars in incentives to the company and warning the workers that jobs would be lost if they unionized. The labor department, whose whole purpose is to prevent that from ever happening, looked at what was happening and said, "wow, that sucks for you guys, to bad nobody can do anything about it.".

Again, the company, VW, had gone to the workers, and offered a workers council, BUT, representatives of the state and federal government interfered. They left a paper trail of proof and VW confirmed it to anyone who asked, that yep there were both bribes and threats, but the labor department of a democratic president couldn't be bothered to act.

To use your phrase from earlier, "fuck you".

Your claims about the unions are the opposite of correct.

They are based on heritage foundation and Cato institute propaganda. They have been peddling the idea that unions destroyed American manufacturing right along side the myth that social security and Medicare were clever schemes spread by communists to make minorities and old people lazy while at the same time bankrupting the country.
-------
It wasn't being called silly and unrealistic during the Clinton and Bush administrations, that caused the emotional reaction from progressive activists towards African-American activists. It was us, pointing out that president Obama was doing the same centrist, business first, bullshit that he promised he wouldn't do, the exact same things that we had been saying were wrong since the Hoover administration, but know, we aren't just silly and unrealistic, we're racists.

We weren't racists when we supported these exact same positions and policies in the forties or fifties.

In the forties and fifties we were communists,

in the sixties, we were communists and race traitors for supporting civil rights,

in the seventies and eighties we were communists and race traitors and deviants because we also supported women's rights and gay rights

But that was conservatives.

In the nineties, "democrats" started saying that we were fools. That sucked. But it wasn't personal. We knew it was still technically conservatives doing the talking.

Then in 2008 we became racists. We advocated the same policies. We made the exact same accusations. But now we're racists.

The frustration that lead to the emotional reaction to the BLM protesters is the result of a combination of factors, I don't doubt that some of it was outright, overt racists who call themselves progressive for purely economic policy reasons, and a good part of it was people who've been subconsciously waiting for an excuse to say something racist to satisfy some inner sickness, some were likely just trolls. But some of it was pent up frustration at being called racists, by people who were defending a president who broke every promise he made. Who got elected, then told us to shut up and sit down while he fucked us all over in exactly the same way that Bill Clinton did.

President Obama made Tim Geithner, one of the architects of the the crash, his Secretary of the Treasury.

That should be all the proof that's needed. There's mountains of evidence, but none with the same elegant poetry to it.

Oh, he made Eric Holder, a lawyer from Covington & Burling, a law and lobbying firm that works with, GE, bank of America, Morgan Stanley, Halliburton, and Fucking BLACKWATER, the mass murdering corporate army. Which was probably no big deal for Holder since he personally defended Chiquita International Brands from "one count of supporting a designated terrorist organization", for being in bed with a group responsible for the mass murder of civilians.

When we questioned having a partner at a law firm that lobbies on the behalf of military contractors who should be facing war crimes and fraud charges, as well as half of the to big to fail banks and wall street firms that the justice department will be investigating, we were again called racists.

Maybe Eric Holder's people tried really hard, but just couldn't find anybody who broke any laws. His lead investigator Lanny Breuer certainly would know his way around wall street, he worked for Covington & Burling defending wall street before he joined the justice department and failed completely to achieve any of his goals, but that's ok, after he left the justice department he went back to Covington & Burling for a 4 million dollar a year contract to defend wall street from the justice department, and now he'll have help, since former attorney general Holder has also rejoined the firm.

That's some pretty epic corruption occurring right out in the open that I'm a racist for noticing.

Then, in the middle of the only progressive event that ever gets any press, instead of talking about our issues, a group of people walk in, TO THE ONLY PROGRESSIVE EVENT THAT EVER GETS ANY NEWS ATTENTION AT ALL, and makes it all about their issue. An issue we support, that we've always supported, that we would have gladly discussed, and we watch our candidate booed off the stage.

That's why we were upset.

If it's a contest about who's issues are going to be heard, BLM will win. Because black voters are more influential in the party than progressives, because dead people on the street are hard to not talk about, and because the people who own Hillary Clinton and Jeb Bush don't want them to talk about economic issues.

Also because they know that 12 percent of the population don't have any real power other than their vote every couple years and the good will or collective guilt of the 65 percent with most of the money and power.

If we're not together they WILL FUCK US BOTH. If we are together we can fuck them. That's not sentimental, "we're all in this together", bullshit.

That's just math.








Reply to this post

Back to OP Alert abuse Link to post in-thread

Always highlight: 10 newest replies | Replies posted after I mark a forum
Replies to this discussion thread
Arrow 349 replies Author Time Post
Tobin S. Jul 2015 OP
bravenak Jul 2015 #1
Erich Bloodaxe BSN Jul 2015 #14
bravenak Jul 2015 #124
ellennelle Jul 2015 #22
1StrongBlackMan Jul 2015 #24
blackspade Jul 2015 #26
spqr78 Jul 2015 #160
LWolf Jul 2015 #174
heaven05 Jul 2015 #41
Number23 Jul 2015 #171
Agschmid Jul 2015 #345
Number23 Jul 2015 #346
Tarheel_Dem Jul 2015 #217
1StrongBlackMan Jul 2015 #262
Tarheel_Dem Jul 2015 #276
lovemydog Jul 2015 #272
Tarheel_Dem Jul 2015 #277
DemocratSinceBirth Jul 2015 #290
Tarheel_Dem Jul 2015 #309
1monster Jul 2015 #233
bravenak Jul 2015 #234
1monster Jul 2015 #245
bravenak Jul 2015 #248
Name removed Jul 2015 #296
bravenak Jul 2015 #298
Downwinder Jul 2015 #2
7962 Jul 2015 #31
JackInGreen Jul 2015 #46
Downwinder Jul 2015 #73
1StrongBlackMan Jul 2015 #110
7962 Jul 2015 #120
Stellar Jul 2015 #3
Dustlawyer Jul 2015 #15
Stellar Jul 2015 #53
MADem Jul 2015 #103
1StrongBlackMan Jul 2015 #111
Number23 Jul 2015 #172
MADem Jul 2015 #193
Cha Jul 2015 #305
Chiquitita Jul 2015 #348
Cha Jul 2015 #304
TBF Jul 2015 #154
1StrongBlackMan Jul 2015 #25
Stellar Jul 2015 #54
1StrongBlackMan Jul 2015 #71
lovemydog Jul 2015 #238
1StrongBlackMan Jul 2015 #257
Name removed Jul 2015 #297
freshwest Jul 2015 #324
Stellar Jul 2015 #325
LiberalAndProud Jul 2015 #237
1StrongBlackMan Jul 2015 #256
LiberalAndProud Jul 2015 #268
Hoppy Jul 2015 #4
kelliekat44 Jul 2015 #12
HFRN Jul 2015 #29
7962 Jul 2015 #32
HFRN Jul 2015 #39
MADem Jul 2015 #108
7962 Jul 2015 #112
1StrongBlackMan Jul 2015 #113
MADem Jul 2015 #135
1StrongBlackMan Jul 2015 #140
SusanCalvin Jul 2015 #61
1StrongBlackMan Jul 2015 #114
SusanCalvin Jul 2015 #125
JustAnotherGen Jul 2015 #87
MADem Jul 2015 #138
JustAnotherGen Jul 2015 #143
MADem Jul 2015 #145
JustAnotherGen Jul 2015 #147
MADem Jul 2015 #149
SusanCalvin Jul 2015 #218
JustAnotherGen Jul 2015 #252
scarletwoman Jul 2015 #273
lovemydog Jul 2015 #239
freshwest Jul 2015 #322
MADem Jul 2015 #104
HFRN Jul 2015 #105
MADem Jul 2015 #107
HFRN Jul 2015 #109
MADem Jul 2015 #142
HFRN Jul 2015 #144
MADem Jul 2015 #148
HFRN Jul 2015 #153
1StrongBlackMan Jul 2015 #115
HFRN Jul 2015 #116
1StrongBlackMan Jul 2015 #118
HFRN Jul 2015 #119
1StrongBlackMan Jul 2015 #121
HFRN Jul 2015 #122
840high Jul 2015 #202
Cali_Democrat Jul 2015 #134
HFRN Jul 2015 #141
Cali_Democrat Jul 2015 #150
Cha Jul 2015 #163
HFRN Jul 2015 #186
Cha Jul 2015 #215
SusanCalvin Jul 2015 #219
Cha Jul 2015 #158
LiberalAndProud Jul 2015 #225
HFRN Jul 2015 #228
LiberalAndProud Jul 2015 #230
zappaman Jul 2015 #240
bravenak Jul 2015 #241
Tarheel_Dem Jul 2015 #247
RiverLover Jul 2015 #255
HFRN Jul 2015 #258
RiverLover Jul 2015 #265
LineLineLineLineReply .
Bobbie Jo Jul 2015 #260
OKNancy Jul 2015 #321
azurnoir Jul 2015 #5
BlueMTexpat Jul 2015 #6
kelliekat44 Jul 2015 #13
Number23 Jul 2015 #173
shaayecanaan Jul 2015 #7
lostnfound Jul 2015 #23
1StrongBlackMan Jul 2015 #30
lostnfound Jul 2015 #38
AllFieldsRequired Jul 2015 #89
lostnfound Jul 2015 #93
spqr78 Jul 2015 #284
1StrongBlackMan Jul 2015 #287
LineLineLineLineLineLineReply we're getting closer.
spqr78 Jul 2015 #292
MADem Jul 2015 #343
freshwest Jul 2015 #326
JustAnotherGen Jul 2015 #328
Behind the Aegis Jul 2015 #330
Tarheel_Dem Jul 2015 #331
JustAnotherGen Jul 2015 #332
freshwest Aug 2015 #349
freshwest Jul 2015 #329
DemocratSinceBirth Jul 2015 #291
shaayecanaan Jul 2015 #42
1StrongBlackMan Jul 2015 #86
Jamaal510 Jul 2015 #281
lostnfound Jul 2015 #91
shaayecanaan Jul 2015 #285
1StrongBlackMan Jul 2015 #27
7962 Jul 2015 #33
1StrongBlackMan Jul 2015 #36
7962 Jul 2015 #50
1StrongBlackMan Jul 2015 #70
JustAnotherGen Jul 2015 #88
shaayecanaan Jul 2015 #51
7962 Jul 2015 #55
shaayecanaan Jul 2015 #62
1StrongBlackMan Jul 2015 #77
7962 Jul 2015 #100
TheKentuckian Jul 2015 #333
shaayecanaan Jul 2015 #340
heaven05 Jul 2015 #75
1StrongBlackMan Jul 2015 #72
shaayecanaan Jul 2015 #130
Name removed Jul 2015 #295
shaayecanaan Jul 2015 #299
Name removed Jul 2015 #302
Laura PourMeADrink Jul 2015 #8
gwheezie Jul 2015 #9
azurnoir Jul 2015 #10
TM99 Jul 2015 #11
Erich Bloodaxe BSN Jul 2015 #16
TM99 Jul 2015 #19
Erich Bloodaxe BSN Jul 2015 #21
SusanCalvin Jul 2015 #127
JustAnotherGen Jul 2015 #156
1StrongBlackMan Jul 2015 #34
TM99 Jul 2015 #43
1StrongBlackMan Jul 2015 #66
TM99 Jul 2015 #76
1StrongBlackMan Jul 2015 #90
TM99 Jul 2015 #94
1StrongBlackMan Jul 2015 #98
TM99 Jul 2015 #99
JustAnotherGen Jul 2015 #128
1StrongBlackMan Jul 2015 #129
JustAnotherGen Jul 2015 #131
1StrongBlackMan Jul 2015 #139
JustAnotherGen Jul 2015 #146
Number23 Jul 2015 #177
1StrongBlackMan Jul 2015 #200
1StrongBlackMan Jul 2015 #133
JustAnotherGen Jul 2015 #137
1StrongBlackMan Jul 2015 #151
JustAnotherGen Jul 2015 #157
1StrongBlackMan Jul 2015 #261
Divernan Jul 2015 #101
JustAnotherGen Jul 2015 #136
1StrongBlackMan Jul 2015 #161
JustAnotherGen Jul 2015 #166
1StrongBlackMan Jul 2015 #199
SusanCalvin Jul 2015 #259
MADem Jul 2015 #167
Number23 Jul 2015 #176
JustAnotherGen Jul 2015 #178
Number23 Jul 2015 #180
bravenak Jul 2015 #181
Number23 Jul 2015 #189
bravenak Jul 2015 #195
JustAnotherGen Jul 2015 #183
Number23 Jul 2015 #188
MADem Jul 2015 #204
TM99 Jul 2015 #212
Number23 Jul 2015 #216
Tarheel_Dem Jul 2015 #227
Number23 Jul 2015 #229
MADem Jul 2015 #235
Number23 Jul 2015 #274
MADem Jul 2015 #275
Cha Jul 2015 #307
bravenak Jul 2015 #231
Cha Jul 2015 #308
Cha Jul 2015 #159
MADem Jul 2015 #152
Number23 Jul 2015 #169
bravenak Jul 2015 #182
bravenak Jul 2015 #185
Number23 Jul 2015 #190
JustAnotherGen Jul 2015 #192
bravenak Jul 2015 #194
Number23 Jul 2015 #197
bravenak Jul 2015 #198
TM99 Jul 2015 #209
Number23 Jul 2015 #210
LWolf Jul 2015 #175
JDPriestly Jul 2015 #17
zwisthekid Jul 2015 #18
JustAnotherGen Jul 2015 #20
heaven05 Jul 2015 #35
JustAnotherGen Jul 2015 #37
heaven05 Jul 2015 #47
Number23 Jul 2015 #179
heaven05 Jul 2015 #28
Number23 Jul 2015 #191
heaven05 Jul 2015 #266
marble falls Jul 2015 #40
TM99 Jul 2015 #44
marble falls Jul 2015 #48
TM99 Jul 2015 #49
marble falls Jul 2015 #74
TM99 Jul 2015 #78
marble falls Jul 2015 #79
marble falls Jul 2015 #81
TM99 Jul 2015 #83
marble falls Jul 2015 #84
TM99 Jul 2015 #92
marble falls Jul 2015 #95
TM99 Jul 2015 #96
marble falls Jul 2015 #97
1StrongBlackMan Jul 2015 #117
marble falls Jul 2015 #170
MADem Jul 2015 #201
TM99 Jul 2015 #206
MADem Jul 2015 #211
TM99 Jul 2015 #213
MADem Jul 2015 #214
Number23 Jul 2015 #220
MADem Jul 2015 #226
Cha Jul 2015 #303
1StrongBlackMan Jul 2015 #334
JustAnotherGen Jul 2015 #267
Number23 Jul 2015 #184
TM99 Jul 2015 #207
Number23 Jul 2015 #208
heaven05 Jul 2015 #69
marble falls Jul 2015 #85
gregcrawford Jul 2015 #45
SolutionisSolidarity Jul 2015 #56
JustAnotherGen Jul 2015 #58
SolutionisSolidarity Jul 2015 #59
JustAnotherGen Jul 2015 #63
gregcrawford Jul 2015 #60
MADem Jul 2015 #106
JustAnotherGen Jul 2015 #57
gregcrawford Jul 2015 #64
JustAnotherGen Jul 2015 #67
gregcrawford Jul 2015 #80
elleng Jul 2015 #165
JustAnotherGen Jul 2015 #187
elleng Jul 2015 #203
LiberalAndProud Jul 2015 #236
JustAnotherGen Jul 2015 #253
LiberalAndProud Jul 2015 #289
JustAnotherGen Jul 2015 #293
MADem Jul 2015 #164
Lilith Rising Jul 2015 #222
MADem Jul 2015 #246
Tarheel_Dem Jul 2015 #243
MADem Jul 2015 #244
1StrongBlackMan Jul 2015 #263
MADem Jul 2015 #269
Cha Jul 2015 #306
still_one Jul 2015 #52
Autumn Jul 2015 #65
MADem Jul 2015 #168
Cha Jul 2015 #224
1StrongBlackMan Jul 2015 #264
Man from Pickens Jul 2015 #68
JustAnotherGen Jul 2015 #82
MADem Jul 2015 #102
kwassa Jul 2015 #221
MADem Jul 2015 #270
Bobbie Jo Jul 2015 #271
Chiquitita Jul 2015 #347
Flying Squirrel Jul 2015 #123
Warpy Jul 2015 #126
kwassa Jul 2015 #223
Tarheel_Dem Jul 2015 #249
Warpy Jul 2015 #251
Tarheel_Dem Jul 2015 #278
Warpy Jul 2015 #279
MADem Jul 2015 #280
Jamaal510 Jul 2015 #282
MADem Jul 2015 #286
Tarheel_Dem Jul 2015 #283
MADem Jul 2015 #288
Cali_Democrat Jul 2015 #132
spqr78 Jul 2015 #155
Tarheel_Dem Jul 2015 #250
Cha Jul 2015 #162
Number23 Jul 2015 #196
steve2470 Jul 2015 #205
LiberalAndProud Jul 2015 #232
JustAnotherGen Jul 2015 #254
lovemydog Jul 2015 #242
lovemydog Jul 2015 #294
shaayecanaan Jul 2015 #300
bravenak Jul 2015 #301
Tarheel_Dem Jul 2015 #310
lovemydog Jul 2015 #312
Tarheel_Dem Jul 2015 #314
bravenak Jul 2015 #313
Behind the Aegis Jul 2015 #316
shaayecanaan Jul 2015 #318
shaayecanaan Jul 2015 #317
bravenak Jul 2015 #319
shaayecanaan Jul 2015 #342
lovemydog Jul 2015 #311
shaayecanaan Jul 2015 #315
lovemydog Jul 2015 #320
gollygee Jul 2015 #323
1StrongBlackMan Jul 2015 #335
lovemydog Jul 2015 #337
1StrongBlackMan Jul 2015 #338
shaayecanaan Jul 2015 #339
JustAnotherGen Jul 2015 #327
lovemydog Jul 2015 #336
shaayecanaan Jul 2015 #341
JustAnotherGen Jul 2015 #344
Please login to view edit histories.