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Religion

In reply to the discussion: An Easter Blessing [View all]

The Velveteen Ocelot

(115,280 posts)
26. My point exactly. It isn't done. It can't be.
Mon Apr 21, 2014, 11:35 AM
Apr 2014

People have believed in some religion or other pretty much forever. Maybe it started millennia ago because people were trying to understand how the world works, and without being able to analyze natural phenomena scientifically, concluded supernatural beings were running the show. These days, religious belief can also be the result of how people were brought up and what they are familiar with - tradition is a big part of it. Religion can also offer people a sense of comfort and assurance and an ethical framework. It's not going away just because the existence of a god and associated "miracles" are unprovable and even absurd. You can point out, politely or otherwise, the impossibility of - for example - Jesus' walking on water and multiplying the loaves and fishes and raising Lazarus from the dead and then doing the same himself. And the answer is always going to be that that doesn't matter because, stated in various ways, God operates outside the bounds of science.

So if you can't convince religious people that their religion is absurd, what else can be done? My own opinion is that you don't bother trying to un-convert people because you won't get anywhere. What we can try to do is mitigate the negative effects of religion on society - and by those effects I mean the sort of fanaticism that gets oppressive laws passed and, in really extreme cases, encourages acts of violence. Rather than attack religion itself, attack the premise that religion should play any role in governance. Religious beliefs must not in any respect influence the curriculum of public schools, or women's reproductive rights, or the right of all people to marry, for example.

Maintaining the absolute separation of church and state is the only way to prevent the less beneficial aspects of religion from creeping into government. Leave people alone to worship whatever and however they choose, but it is essential that the retrograde and anti-science tendencies of certain (but not all) religious groups be reined in. I firmly believe that this is the battle that must be fought; don't waste energy on debunking religion. Expend that energy on keeping it out of government.

An Easter Blessing [View all] cleanhippie Apr 2014 OP
Happy Easter to you, too. The Velveteen Ocelot Apr 2014 #1
So people can only enjoy Easter Goblinmonger Apr 2014 #2
Easter and the other Christian holidays have plenty of pagan roots. The Velveteen Ocelot Apr 2014 #5
You did see the source it came from, right? Goblinmonger Apr 2014 #6
Lol, were you batting your eyes when you typed that? rug Apr 2014 #8
A discussion of "faith" from an atheist web site. The Velveteen Ocelot Apr 2014 #9
It's not an atheist web site Goblinmonger Apr 2014 #10
I misspoke. It's from the atheist section of that website. The Velveteen Ocelot Apr 2014 #11
Nice of you to presume to speak for all "believing Christians" skepticscott Apr 2014 #14
I'm not a believer, myself. The Velveteen Ocelot Apr 2014 #17
I couldn't disagree more. cleanhippie Apr 2014 #20
So how would you convince those poor benighted fools The Velveteen Ocelot Apr 2014 #22
Politely pointing out the total absurdity of said belief doesn't work. cleanhippie Apr 2014 #25
My point exactly. It isn't done. It can't be. The Velveteen Ocelot Apr 2014 #26
If there is any place and time to do that, that pace is here a the time is now. cleanhippie Apr 2014 #36
The Alamo is calling. rug Apr 2014 #37
Funny that you dodged all of the points I raised skepticscott Apr 2014 #23
And I still stand by my safe haven point. Goblinmonger Apr 2014 #15
It did originate at an atheist websiste. rug Apr 2014 #27
It's recycled from 2013. rug Apr 2014 #7
There are many rational arguments against Christianity and religion in general goldent Apr 2014 #18
"We just don't see a lot of them here." rug Apr 2014 #19
Then please, won't you share with us all these rational arguments against xtianity and religion cleanhippie Apr 2014 #21
If factual history is rain, we should put away the umbrellas and get wet. cleanhippie Apr 2014 #4
It celebrates the diversity and similarity of religious beliefs. Warren Stupidity Apr 2014 #12
Oh goody, this is #2 from you. What's your Easter recor? I need to start an over/under pool. rug Apr 2014 #3
Happy Easter to all! Happy Springtime!. Happy fertility! Starboard Tack Apr 2014 #13
While I generally agree, I don't see how positive change can take place cleanhippie Apr 2014 #16
What terrible childhood experience did you have with religion? kwassa Apr 2014 #24
How did this ruin anyone's 'experience'? Warren Stupidity Apr 2014 #28
Answer is, of course: it didn't. trotsky Apr 2014 #29
Apparently you've never encountered an obnoxious drunk at a party. rug Apr 2014 #30
An atheist is attacking the holiest Christian holiday on that holiday. kwassa Apr 2014 #31
Stay in the safe haven Goblinmonger Apr 2014 #32
Whatever happened to simple respect? kwassa Apr 2014 #39
Is that your way of telling him to shut up? rug Apr 2014 #42
Could you point out exactly what "attacked" your holiday? trotsky Apr 2014 #33
Certainly. kwassa Apr 2014 #40
I am terribly sorry you were offended and your religion savagely attacked on its holiest day... trotsky Apr 2014 #44
You do know the title wasn't his, right? Goblinmonger Apr 2014 #45
You're absolutely right. Act_of_Reparation Apr 2014 #34
best time to discuss nil desperandum Apr 2014 #35
You willfully misunderstand. kwassa Apr 2014 #41
Apparently no English translator of the Bible used "Easter" prior to Tyndale struggle4progress Apr 2014 #38
I expect that someone, who was really interested in mythologies circulating in the Roman empire struggle4progress Apr 2014 #43
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