Religion

Maedhros

(10,007 posts)

12. God is, by definition, outside the ability of mere humans to comprehend.

Reply to Mary A. Osborne (Original post)

Mon Dec 7, 2015, 05:14 PM

Dec 2015

Thus, it is silly to discuss "proof" that God exists or does not exist - there is no possible evidence to cite either way.

However, it is reasonable to assert that God as described to us by religion does not exist, because religion grants God traits that are able to be comprehended by humans and thus open for debate: God is all-knowing, God is all-powerful, God has perfect love for us, etc. This quote by Epicurus is perhaps the most representative of the reasoning behind the refutation of God-as-described:

“Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?”

While not following from observed evidence, this argument is logically sound.

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Why Can�t Some People Feel God�s Existence? [View all] Mary A. Osborne Dec 2015 OP

And so... EdwardBernays Dec 2015 #1

If that's what you believe and it makes you happy. The Velveteen Ocelot Dec 2015 #2

Sometimes, suffering is also God's blessing. Linda C. Brazil Dec 2015 #143

Let me be the first Cartoonist Dec 2015 #3

Pretty egotistical God, if you ask me. COLGATE4 Dec 2015 #4

I believe that is in fact what the Bible says. nt SusanCalvin Dec 2015 #52

I feel sorry for you. COLGATE4 Dec 2015 #58

Huh? I was under the impression I was agreeing with you. SusanCalvin Dec 2015 #63

I don't "feel the existence" of Santa Clause either. fleur-de-lisa Dec 2015 #5

+1 Leftyforever Dec 2015 #30

There no relations between Santa and God. Linda C. Brazil Dec 2015 #136

Aren't you precious! fleur-de-lisa Dec 2015 #137

I think. Linda C. Brazil Dec 2015 #139

Because.... (get ready for it) he doesn't exist! immoderate Dec 2015 #6

Huh? nruthie Dec 2015 #7

That would also explain bvf Dec 2015 #8

Why did all the people get killed and slaughtered in the concentration camps in WWII? shraby Dec 2015 #9

You know, your post reminds me - we watched a TV show - a movie - about Jewish inmates at PatrickforO Dec 2015 #128

Why can't some people understand analogies? whatthehey Dec 2015 #10

Wow, thanks for the anti-atheist bigotry. trotsky Dec 2015 #11

God is, by definition, outside the ability of mere humans to comprehend. Maedhros Dec 2015 #12

I bet Epicurus had long hair. Cartoonist Dec 2015 #15

"God is, by definition, outside the ability of mere humans to comprehend." trotsky Dec 2015 #16

Actually I'm ok with that as a hypothesis. whatthehey Dec 2015 #21

I have found a theological proof concerning God's omnipotence, omniscience and prayers. DetlefK Dec 2015 #18

It's circular reasoning. Maedhros Dec 2015 #25

??? You completely missed the point. DetlefK Dec 2015 #61

Yeah, I saw that. My train of thought derailed...[n/t] Maedhros Dec 2015 #67

Then the god you are claiming is outside our capability to understand must not be omnipotent. AtheistCrusader Dec 2015 #43

God is, by definition, outside the ability of mere humans to comprehend? How do you know? Yorktown Dec 2015 #48

So the lesson we're supposed to take away from this is... gcomeau Dec 2015 #13

Nice feel-good story. As long as you don't tell it from the barber's viewpoint. DetlefK Dec 2015 #14

Actually that's a much more interesting question whatthehey Dec 2015 #17

Well, Dan Barker, of ffrf, SusanCalvin Dec 2015 #53

Wait a minnit Cartoonist Dec 2015 #19

Just wanted to say Hi and welcome to DU... NeoGreen Dec 2015 #20

Just want to add Cartoonist Dec 2015 #24

If by "better" you mean "nobody will challenge what you say"... -eom gcomeau Dec 2015 #39

I mean Cartoonist Dec 2015 #41

Works too... -eom gcomeau Dec 2015 #42

We grew up. (nt) mr blur Dec 2015 #22

Why can't some people stop espousing their absurd beliefs with absurd anecdotes? cleanhippie Dec 2015 #23

"Why can't some people stop espousing their absurd beliefs..." . Hmmm...it begs the question: jonno99 Dec 2015 #29

Im using the commonly used dictionary definition. cleanhippie Dec 2015 #36

Chuckling out loud! There are many religious folk who would say EXACTLY the jonno99 Dec 2015 #40

Apparently, your definition of "same thing" is not a common one. cleanhippie Dec 2015 #44

It's not about examples, it's about your use of the word 'absurd'. I simply jonno99 Dec 2015 #45

I don't follow your logic regarding substituting 'atheist' for 'religious'. cleanhippie Dec 2015 #46

Ok - have a good one! nt jonno99 Dec 2015 #49

I always do. cleanhippie Dec 2015 #66

I'm glad to hear it! jonno99 Dec 2015 #68

I'm sure you are. cleanhippie Dec 2015 #69

You seem intent on picking a fight. Sorry, to dissappoint, but I have no interest. In regards jonno99 Dec 2015 #72

You've claimed several times that I have a belief system. cleanhippie Dec 2015 #73

I've not used the word "god" in this thread, and yet you keep digging in your heels. My advice is jonno99 Dec 2015 #74

In a thread about belief in a god, you're not talking about belief in a god? cleanhippie Dec 2015 #75

I'm simply talking about dogmatism. Whether it manifests itself in jonno99 Dec 2015 #84

You don't think believing dead people coming back to life... cleanhippie Dec 2015 #85

Chuckles. I can see where someone would think so. But looking at the larger picture, jonno99 Dec 2015 #87

Not only small potatoes, but absurd potatoes. cleanhippie Dec 2015 #88

Ah - but you're missing my point. The religious folk would claim that jonno99 Dec 2015 #90

I'd agree with them that 'something from nothing' is absurd. cleanhippie Dec 2015 #92

Not accusing - simply making making an observation. It's very simple really, jonno99 Dec 2015 #94

Chuckles. Your continued false equivalency btween belief and non-belief is absurd. cleanhippie Dec 2015 #95

"Belief that these things are real are absurd, are they not?" Well, jonno99 Dec 2015 #97

So you begin with false equivalency and end with circular reasoning. cleanhippie Dec 2015 #100

It's obvious that you have strongly held beliefs - kudos to you jonno99 Dec 2015 #102

Lol. Yeah, I sure do. cleanhippie Dec 2015 #105

Well, without being dogmatic, Truth matters Yorktown Dec 2015 #115

So, we CAN toss the bible? If we're imagining a world where people don't take themselves too serious AtheistCrusader Dec 2015 #82

Sure. But please note that I'm not suggesting that we take NOTHING serioulsy. I'm jonno99 Dec 2015 #86

Do you think some opinions should be taken more seriously than others? trotsky Dec 2015 #89

I think serious, reasoned opinions should be treated as such. More importantly, jonno99 Dec 2015 #91

So are religious beliefs opinions or facts? n/t trotsky Dec 2015 #93

It probably depends on who you ask. My understanding of the Christian jonno99 Dec 2015 #96

Are those elements 50-50 propositions then? trotsky Dec 2015 #99

"Are those elements 50-50?" I can't help you there. Now you're discussing matters of "faith". You'd jonno99 Dec 2015 #103

Well I've noticed on this thread you want to define "extremist" groups. trotsky Dec 2015 #104

Notice how he treats your question about the moon as absurd on its face. cleanhippie Dec 2015 #107

Well, have YOU ever been to the moon? trotsky Dec 2015 #108

I'm very dogmatic and rigid in my assertion that moon is not made of cheese. cleanhippie Dec 2015 #109

It's never been my assertion that "neither has proof". It is my assertion that blanket statements jonno99 Dec 2015 #111

I understand it's uncomfortable seeing where your train of thought goes. trotsky Dec 2015 #120

I don't know what to make of this sentence: jonno99 Dec 2015 #121

Typically when a person (me) uses a 2nd person pronoun (you), trotsky Dec 2015 #124

You treat his question as patently absurd! cleanhippie Dec 2015 #106

Sigh...we've been to the moon CH. Therefore if anyone were to cling to previosuly held jonno99 Dec 2015 #110

Then how about unicorns? cleanhippie Dec 2015 #112

Sorry CH - you're going to have to slay your own strawmen. I must say though jonno99 Dec 2015 #113

Lol. Phrase it any way that makes you feel better, but the only thing slayed here cleanhippie Dec 2015 #114

Wait - you didn't slay the straw men too?! You can't just leave them running around you know... jonno99 Dec 2015 #116

Again, end this in any manner that helps you feel better about it. cleanhippie Dec 2015 #119

I think all of the straw men left running around could explain the mystery of goldent Dec 2015 #130

An impotent God HassleCat Dec 2015 #26

If believing gives you comfort, then by all means believe. randys1 Dec 2015 #27

he saw a man with shoulder-length hair and stubbly cheeks. Kalidurga Dec 2015 #28

Logic and reason argue against god. earthside Dec 2015 #31

Nothing says "I'm here with good intentions" like a flame-baity hit-and-run post Heddi Dec 2015 #32

And a 19 post newbie, at that. cleanhippie Dec 2015 #38

This message was self-deleted by its author goldent Dec 2015 #50

Not a real good analogy. Manifestor_of_Light Dec 2015 #33

When the day comes, as it does in every life, that you face a catastrophic illness, or Squinch Dec 2015 #34

I don't think your post makes sense. I'm being logical. Manifestor_of_Light Dec 2015 #56

So read it again and use a little more logic. You pretty much restated what I said. Squinch Dec 2015 #70

So if I don't believe in God, does that mean my crises are worse? Manifestor_of_Light Dec 2015 #80

Not even close. Squinch Dec 2015 #98

Tell me what you are saying. Manifestor_of_Light Dec 2015 #118

Mary is suggesting that the reason there is pain and suffering in the world is Squinch Dec 2015 #125

Oh all right. Manifestor_of_Light Dec 2015 #126

No problem Squinch Dec 2015 #127

God better don't exist or s/he would have to be a giant vindictive prick, according thereismore Dec 2015 #35

Hey, I've not been in this group before, and I like it! SusanCalvin Dec 2015 #55

Anyone can post anything here about religion, positive or negative, and get free responses AtheistCrusader Dec 2015 #65

Gotcha, thanks. SusanCalvin Dec 2015 #79

Yes, A.C. Manifestor_of_Light Dec 2015 #81

Because he don't. (n/t) Iggo Dec 2015 #37

So you're saying that God arranges people getting sick, but you will be able to understand that muriel_volestrangler Dec 2015 #47

If, when I die, edhopper Dec 2015 #51

. SusanCalvin Dec 2015 #54

A truly stupid analogy. SheilaT Dec 2015 #57

The Incredible Shrinking God!!!!... nt uriel1972 Dec 2015 #59

Chain letter mail mentality Person 2713 Dec 2015 #60

And how does your rather unconvincing analogy skepticscott Dec 2015 #62

THAT'S what I've been doing wrong? Act_of_Reparation Dec 2015 #64

This is a representation of the best that theists have. Promethean Dec 2015 #71

hi Linda C. Brazil Dec 2015 #135

I thought the context of the post was pretty clear. Promethean Dec 2015 #138

what drivel n/t mindem Dec 2015 #76

... RKP5637 Dec 2015 #77

As an atheist I jeard on the radio once said rurallib Dec 2015 #78

The God in that story sounds like a sadistic asshole. Marrah_G Dec 2015 #83

Everyone does, we just call it by different names. elleng Dec 2015 #101

LOL, wut? tkmorris Dec 2015 #117

If you bothered to have one reply in this thread Goblinmonger Dec 2015 #122

Isn't that begging the question? raccoon Dec 2015 #123

If there is a god why do some of the most evil, dishonest people doc03 Dec 2015 #129

Learn how to see God and feel the Infinite Limitless Divine by modifying your android phone sanatanadharma Dec 2015 #131

If you don't know god, you can't claim to be unable to know it. AtheistCrusader Dec 2015 #140

Thank you, MIRT.... opiate69 Dec 2015 #132

Now if this were proposed as evidence for gods Warren Stupidity Dec 2015 #133

I suspect this "trash" is still around skepticscott Dec 2015 #141

This is hilarious! Arugula Latte Dec 2015 #134

They don't feel him, because he doesn't exist. JRLeft Dec 2015 #142

Dragos are pretty awesome Lordquinton Dec 2015 #144

Abrahamic Gods are mass murderers. JRLeft Dec 2015 #145