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In reply to the discussion: The Mistrust of Science [View all]

DetlefK

(16,423 posts)
21. Oh, come on. One could as well make an argument that "white people" invented science.
Tue Jun 14, 2016, 05:38 AM
Jun 2016

Of course Newton, Galilei and Pascal were religious. Everybody was religious back then. This was a cultural thing. NOT being religious was absolutely outrageous and ridiculous.

You shouldn't confuse the culture and thinking back then with the thinking of nowadays. Our current approach to science/technology/knowledge is that new things are better than old things.
But up until approximately 17th/18th century, the mindset was that old knowledge is better than new knowledge. The european culture back then was based on an underlying cultural meme from Ancient Europe that the present is merely a poor and imperfect copy of a golden, wise and glorious past.

The mindset was that older sources are more accurate and believable than new sources. That's one reason (in addition to religion) why the Bible was considered so infallible: It was fucking old!
For the same reason, the esoteric "Corpus Hermeticum" became a major driving-power in research and culture because it had been misdated to be many millennia old.
One of the major scholars of the Renaissance (either Ficino or Mirandola, I forgot) had open doubts about all this occult magic described in the Corpus Hermeticum and the rituals how to invoke spirits and daemons, because he was a devout Christian. But he nevertheless continued his work in this area because the "Corpus Hermeticum" was thought to be old and the old sources are always right. So he made up an explanation that there is good magic, related to planets and angels, and evil magic, related to stars and daemons, (this split does not exist in the Corpus Hermeticum) and he had an excuse to continue doing research on good magic.

Galileo's big sin was to doubt the geocentric model of the universe. (I don't remember whether the egyptian or chaldean model was en vogue back then.) This model came from a source from a golden past and was therefore infallible. AND this model fitted to the descriptions in the Bible.
As I said, doubting the wisdom of the past was considered madness and folly.
And while a mere believer has no qualms making compromises between what he believes and what he sees, the Church CANNOT compromise.

"Oh, all the big thinkers were religious! It must have been their religion!"
So what? All the big thinkers were white. With the same confidence, one can claim:
"Oh, all the big thinkers were white! It must have been their white skin-color!"



And even for 20th century researchers, of course some of them were religious. Christianity is everywhere in our culture, our language, our metaphors, our imagery, our philosophy. How could these people NOT think about God when thinking about the universe???

The Mistrust of Science [View all] rug Jun 2016 OP
Complete bullsh*t. It was Judaeo-Christians and deists who Joe Chi Minh Jun 2016 #1
First, Einstein was a pantheist, not a deist. longship Jun 2016 #2
Actually, qite a few scientists were theists before the founding of the USA. rug Jun 2016 #10
Now, you're starting with the Spinoza bullsh*t. Rather than the Joe Chi Minh Jun 2016 #13
No, one has to actually listen to Einstein to know what he means by Spinoza's god. longship Jun 2016 #18
The funny thing is.... AlbertCat Jun 2016 #28
Oh boy. DetlefK Jun 2016 #3
I presume you're not asserting that atheism is a prerequisite for science. rug Jun 2016 #4
No. DetlefK Jun 2016 #6
Atheists don't claim absolute knowledge. Are you 'agnostic' about Leprechauns? immoderate Jun 2016 #31
Two massive fails there, so truly, your psot cannot be Joe Chi Minh Jun 2016 #14
Oh, come on. One could as well make an argument that "white people" invented science. DetlefK Jun 2016 #21
"Oh, all the big thinkers were religious! It must have been their religion!" So Joe Chi Minh Jun 2016 #24
Confirmation bias. immoderate Jun 2016 #32
You seem to have read a different article muriel_volestrangler Jun 2016 #5
Did you miss this? rug Jun 2016 #8
'divinity and experience and common sense'. It's not attacking experience or common sense, either muriel_volestrangler Jun 2016 #11
I tend to scan posts too quickly. There is a Joe Chi Minh Jun 2016 #15
"True atheist scientists are parasites". You get that from a speech about science and vaccines muriel_volestrangler Jun 2016 #17
No. I was simply 'getting on my high horse' about this business. What Joe Chi Minh Jun 2016 #19
No. I did not get that from matey's speech about science and vaccines. Joe Chi Minh Jun 2016 #23
Most of that post is nonsense, and just an excuse to throw insults like 'imbecile' around muriel_volestrangler Jun 2016 #25
'The great physicist Edwin Hubble, speaking at Caltech’s commencement in 1938, Joe Chi Minh Jun 2016 #20
It was called The Enlightenment edhopper Jun 2016 #7
Tell that to muriel. He's under the impression this has nothing to do with religion. rug Jun 2016 #9
Many did. Igel Jun 2016 #12
And what an epic misnomer it was. With the daily exposure Joe Chi Minh Jun 2016 #22
"so-called Evolution" edhopper Jun 2016 #26
My pleasure. Very civiliised of you. And practical. I don't usually argue. Joe Chi Minh Jun 2016 #29
You don't have to be a 'new earth' scientist to entertain reasonable Joe Chi Minh Jun 2016 #16
Page 6 of this linked article is particularly interesting : Joe Chi Minh Jun 2016 #27
Kick! HuckleB Jun 2016 #30
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